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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: A 'sexualised' birthday card for a 13yo girl
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Ender's Shadow
Shipmate
# 2272
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Posted
Hallmark is running scared over a card that says: "You're 13 today! If you had a rich boyfriend, he'd give you diamonds and rubies. Well, maybe next year you will – when you've bigger boobies!"
I'm seriously trying to work out my response to this.
1) It's blatantly obvious to anyone except some parents who want to hide their head in the sand that most 13yos have a very good idea of what sex is all about and probably want a significant other.
2) There may be a legitimate issue about sizism - a denigration of women with small breast that is unhelpful.
But is (2) being used as a justification for (1). Now of course if we were talking 10yo, the issue is different.
Or am I missing something? And please resist the temptation to call me to Hell If I am - because if we can't have a serious, open conversation about issues like that without it getting stupidly fraught, then it's real shame.
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Test everything. Hold on to the good.
Please don't refer to me as 'Ender' - the whole point of Ender's Shadow is that he isn't Ender.
Posts: 5018 | From: Manchester, England | Registered: Feb 2002
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ender's Shadow:
Hallmark is running scared over a card that says: "You're 13 today! If you had a rich boyfriend, he'd give you diamonds and rubies. Well, maybe next year you will – when you've bigger boobies!"
I'm seriously trying to work out my response to this.
1) It's blatantly obvious to anyone except some parents who want to hide their head in the sand that most 13yos have a very good idea of what sex is all about and probably want a significant other.
2) There may be a legitimate issue about sizism - a denigration of women with small breast that is unhelpful.
But is (2) being used as a justification for (1). Now of course if we were talking 10yo, the issue is different.
Or am I missing something? And please resist the temptation to call me to Hell If I am - because if we can't have a serious, open conversation about issues like that without it getting stupidly fraught, then it's real shame.
Well, I'd never buy this for a girl of any age. But I''m not sure that it's worth throwing a hissy fit over it. I mean, yes, it's sending a terrible message under the guise of a joke.. but it's a hallmark card for heavens sake! I don't expect much. they make stupid jokes. some may cross a line, but then I don't buy those. our girls are exposed to so many bad messages, this one hardly rates. no, it's not good, but on the grand scheme of things, it's barely a blip.
I could go on and on about what a horrible message it sends to girls. but... meh. not worth the effort.
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
Apparently this is a very old card that was found in some shop's bargain bin and actually dates from before Hallmark owned this company.
The objection to it, though, it not about what precious little angels 13 year olds are, or that they shouldn't know about boys or sex. It's about the message of what should be important to girls - boobs, boyfriends and expensive gifts are shitty priorities. Not to mention that at that age, when girls are all developing at different rates and are usually pretty damn insecure about the way their bodies look, it's probably best to avoid this kind of message about breast size.
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Where to start?
The card does not cross a line, it crosses several. Sex, body image, materialism to start. Giving a card such as this to a girl at an age where body issues are going into high gear, the physiological changes, etc., is ridiculous on every level.
I am having a difficult time understanding what is not offensive about this card.
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Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Personal response.
Storm in a teacup.
Stupid, offensive card. Glad its 15 years out of print. Why should anyone buy it? Looks like, mostly, they didn't.
Given the Hallmark response, we can be sure they won't ever be selling any similar cards in the future.
[ 11. December 2012, 12:52: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Personal response.
Storm in a teacup.
Stupid, offensive card. Glad its 15 years out of print. Why should anyone buy it? Looks like, mostly, they didn't.
Given the Hallmark response, we can be sure they won't ever be selling any similar cards in the future.
Why should anyone buy it? Don't know. But I'm guessing the folks who are into this kind of wardrobe for their children could give us a clue! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Given the Hallmark response, we can be sure they won't ever be selling any similar cards in the future.
To be honest, Barnabas62, it's a mystery to me why anyone buys anything at Hallmark. How they can fill shops all over the world with utter dreck and make a profit out of it is more like something out of Reggie Perrin than anything else.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
(if that reference in my last post is incomprehensible, this link may help)
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Pegasus
Shipmate
# 1966
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Posted
It's an unpleasant card, and hugely inappropriate for any adult to give to a 13yo. But unless teenagers have changed since I was one it captures very accurately the style and sentiment of the way teenage girls speak to each other.
Posts: 1207 | From: Ruritania | Registered: Apr 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Personal response.
Storm in a teacup.
Stupid, offensive card. Glad its 15 years out of print. Why should anyone buy it? Looks like, mostly, they didn't.
Given the Hallmark response, we can be sure they won't ever be selling any similar cards in the future.
Why should anyone buy it? Don't know. But I'm guessing the folks who are into this kind of wardrobe for their children could give us a clue!
I have led an over-sheltered life ....
quote:
Originally posted by Pegasus:
It's an unpleasant card, and hugely inappropriate for any adult to give to a 13yo. But unless teenagers have changed since I was one it captures very accurately the style and sentiment of the way teenage girls speak to each other.
Now you mention it, I can see that. A strange "niche" market, I suppose. Could also be meant unkindly, even in that context. Which makes it doubly "out of order".
I've changed my mind about it. It's not just stupid and offensive, its a potential aid for nasty bullies. Hallmark have "seen the light", Honest Ron.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
If the card is 15 years old, much of the hoo-ha could be scientifically resolved by tracking down the 28yo women who actually received this and finding out how it influenced them.
We don't get this kind of opportunity often! Where's the funding?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Squibs
Shipmate
# 14408
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Posted
I happened to be watching Channel 4 news tonight and apparently sexting is all the rage nowadays amongst 13 year olds. Ah, take away the technology and it probably wasn't much different 15 year back when I was a sexually clueless teen.
Posts: 1124 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: Dec 2008
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Sexting's been all the rage since the beginning of SMS, in every age group from 13-103.
Must have been a slow news day.
(Seriously, you want to see someone horrified, you see a 30-something whose 80-something grandparent accidentally sent a sext to them instead of the intended recipient. Thank you Jesus, it was my friend and not me, because then I got to laugh at him.)
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Channel 4 is a bit late on the trendiness bandwagon, as per usual. Sexting has been occupying the deep thoughts of academia for years now- some papers for you.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Spiffy
Thanks. That really made me laugh. The "wind-up" possibilities are limitless. Just not sure the kids could cope ...
Honest Ron
I suppose it will become a GCSE exam project in due course. On that subject I really have led a sheltered life. Complete "blind spot".
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
But I'm guessing the folks who are into this kind of wardrobe for their children could give us a clue!
Does "Embrace your Inner Weasel" have some sort of esoteric meaning? If not I quite like it. Appalled by the others however.
I live area where Afro-Caribbean's are probably the largest group. Their cards show the most saccharine sweet sentimentality I've ever seen - but after this I'm starting to warm to them.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Hawk
Semi-social raptor
# 14289
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pegasus:
It's an unpleasant card, and hugely inappropriate for any adult to give to a 13yo. But unless teenagers have changed since I was one it captures very accurately the style and sentiment of the way teenage girls speak to each other.
I think this is my reaction. of course this isn't intended for mummy or daddy to hand to their sweet little girl. That would be weird and creepy. But I can imagine some teenagers would find it amusing to give this to their friends. It's offensive - of course it is, it's supposed to be. That's the joke. But if your friend is a sensitive flower with body-issues, you wouldn't buy this card for her anyway. You'd buy one with a puppy on or something.
Do people think that 13 year old girls haven't got a sense of humour, or perhaps they are just blank-minded sponges, and if any 13 year old even sees this card they'll immedietly collapse in a neurotic mess of self-loathing. Rubbish. They'll either think it's stupid, or they'll think it's funny. The same reaction people have to any offensive card.
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“We are to find God in what we know, not in what we don't know." Dietrich Bonhoeffer
See my blog for 'interesting' thoughts
Posts: 1739 | From: Oxford, UK | Registered: Nov 2008
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hawk:
The same reaction people have to any offensive card.
Somehow, I just knew that would be a link to Scribbler. I just don't know enough people who'd appreciate them...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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kankucho
Shipmate
# 14318
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Posted
quote:
greetings card giant Hallmark has promised to track down all remaining copies of an old birthday card which has been attacked for sexualising 13-year-old girls by equating their breast size with their future boyfriends' generosity.
Whatever the rights or wrongs of the card's content, this strikes me as a ridiculous and pointless exercise. It's like demanding a global recall of all the videos featuring sexist and racist mainstream comedians from the 1970s.
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"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" – Dr. Carl Sagan
Kankucho Bird Blues
Posts: 1262 | From: Kuon-ganjo, E17 | Registered: Nov 2008
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
Apparently this is a very old card that was found in some shop's bargain bin and actually dates from before Hallmark owned this company.
Thank you, you hit the nail on the head.
In order for this thread to be productive, the first thing we must do is distinguish between then and now: to wring our hands and say "ain't it awful" (present tense) would completely miss the point. Maybe "wasn't it awful?" The remarkable thing is an apparent change in standards. A card that a company thought was o.k. back whenever it was produced is now so blatently incorrect that the Ministry of Truth is trying to erase all traces of its existence. The reaction sounds to me like a scene straight out of the opening pages of Orwell's 1984.
Now, as a librarian I would think that we would at least want to keep a copy online or in a scrapbook somewhere, the better to congratulate ourselves on how much more moral our society clearly is now than twenty years ago. (Surely there is no room for doubt?)
[ 12. December 2012, 16:56: Message edited by: Alogon ]
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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