Ship of Fools: End of the world -- does it matter?

Thread: End of the world -- does it matter? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I expect this thread will continue past Dec 21, and I suspect the current news articles about people panic buying survival supplies are half invented, but some churches regularly teach "the world is ending soon" and people count supposed "weeks" to try to understand when.

If the world is ending, why buy supplies?

If you really thought the world would end Dec 21, what would you do differently this week than you normally plan to do?

I suppose I wouldn't bother to clean out the fridge because it would all fry in a few days, a dirty fridge can do that as easily as a clean one.

I'm just wondering why I should care about a supposed timetable, whether a Mayan calendar or the book of Revelation.

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I expect this thread will continue past Dec 21, and I suspect the current news articles about people panic buying survival supplies are half invented, but some churches regularly teach "the world is ending soon" and people count supposed "weeks" to try to understand when.

If the world is ending, why buy supplies?

That's rather obvious isn't it? So you can cook meals and have the energy to shoot and axe up the post-apocalypse zombies or space aliens or beings from another dimension who consider us delicacies.

quote:
Belle Ringer
If you really thought the world would end Dec 21, what would you do differently this week than you normally plan to do?

Target practice. Of course.

quote:
Belle Ringer
I suppose I wouldn't bother to clean out the fridge because it would all fry in a few days, a dirty fridge can do that as easily as a clean one.

Arrange the food in easy to heat servings, if the end comes by fire, the meals will be ready to serve, hot and toasty.

quote:
Belle Ringer
I'm just wondering why I should care about a supposed timetable, whether a Mayan calendar or the book of Revelation.

I don't know, maybe it will by Cylons. They have a plan you know.

{edit, fix tags for quotes}

[ 11. December 2012, 17:07: Message edited by: no prophet ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

A serious synopsis of np's reply would be that some think "the end of the world" is more the end of civilisation, or that a period of chaos will precede final lights out.
Another take is you are expecting reason from people who "know" when the world will end?

[ 11. December 2012, 17:21: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
A serious synopsis of np's reply would be that some think "the end of the world" is more the end of civilisation, or that a period of chaos will precede final lights out.
Another take is you are expecting reason from people who "know" when the world will end?

You're a better woman or man than I am.

The survivalists will call this era, WTSHTF. They scare me because they think the EOTW is real.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
A serious synopsis of np's reply would be that some think "the end of the world" is more the end of civilisation, or that a period of chaos will precede final lights out.

Exactly. The words are "end of the world" but the belief is "end of civilization as we know it." Obviously, if the planet is going to be shattered like Krypton, then the only reasonable thing you can do is shove your baby in to a rocket and send it up in the general direction of a habitable world.

Good thing reality is just a massive illusion anyway, huh?

[edit typo]

[ 11. December 2012, 18:02: Message edited by: Hedgehog ]

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

I'm with you, Belle Ringer. Even if you could survive the "end of the world" (in terms of a complete loss of civilization and resources), why would you want to?

[edited to clarify]

[ 11. December 2012, 18:02: Message edited by: churchgeek ]

Posted by que sais-je (# 17185) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

If you really thought the world would end Dec 21, what would you do differently this week than you normally plan to do?

Corny I know but I'd spend my time walking in the countryside with my wife.

Unless it rains of course, in which case she wants to watch 'Some like it Hot' again and I want one of 'It's a Wonderful Life', 'Mad Max II' or 'Ground Hog Day'. If there isn't time for both I'm sorry but the end of the world will have to be postponed.

Of course the older you get the less of a big deal the end of the world is - it's coming anyway.

Posted by Anyuta (# 14692) on :

I could die tomorrow. or today, even. I certainly will die within the next 50 years or so. for me, the world will end then. do I care if it ends just for me, or for everyone else as well? In theory I have to be prepared at any given moment. And, in many ways, I am. of course, if I had a specific time, there may be some things I'd do, and certainly some other things I'd not bother with anymore (housework!) but in spiritual terms, I try on a regular basis to be as ready as I can (not harboring grudges, letting go of hate, forgiving.. that sort of thing). not that I'm always successful, but I figure I'm doing it as well as I can, and I can't imagine being able to do a better job of it just because I know the world will end tomorrow.

now, if it were a matter of knowing CIVILIZATION will end tomorrow, but not actual human life on earth, then there are a number of things I'd do. if the zombie apocalypse happens, I can be ready with a little warning time. but I believe in the zombie apocalypse about as much as I believe in fairies.

I and I plan to have a fun party on Dec. 22!

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

I certainly hope that if the world's demise was coming on Dec. 22, I would do very little different from what I would do otherwise. (Okay, so maybe I might eat something I would not otherwise.)

I am reminded of one of Arthur Clarke's short stores, "Rescue Party". Aliens visit the Earth, which is about to be physically destroyed. In one office they visit, everything has been put away neatly, and in another office, there is chaos. Both are human reactions to the circumstances.

I am also reminded of an oath taken in "The Lord of the Rings" when one of the characters offers his services to Gondor; one of the few ways he can be released from his duties is for the world to end.

If you learn that you are going to die tomorrow, does that entitle you to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk today?

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
If you learn that you are going to die tomorrow, does that entitle you to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk today?

That does raise the interesting moral point. Theologically, believing in an afterlife, one can say that you are required to behave appropriately even knowing that the world ends tomorrow (or Dec. 21). But if you do not believe in an afterlife but behave morally based on societal principles, are you free to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It?

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

This whole thing peeves me off to no end, particularly as a historian because the Mayans have no word for 'apocalypse' and if you don't believe me ask a Mayan (no, they haven't died out, I go drinking with one every Friday). We had to waste precious government dollars to convince people it's bupkis and even then, someone's going to do something stupid and if we're lucky, they're only going to hurt themselves and not their family and friends.

Additionally, all this foofraw speculation distracts from the fact that today is the end of the world for 4500 children who have tuberculosis, 3000 who have malaria, and 16,000 who are malnourished.

So, no, the "Mayan Apocalypse" doesn't matter when it keeps us from focusing on the completely avoidable horrors that are ending the world of our fellow human beings daily.

Posted by que sais-je (# 17185) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But if you do not believe in an afterlife but behave morally based on societal principles, are you free to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It?

You are free to do so, but I wouldn't change. We live the way we do because it works for us. Why would anyone want to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It? It doesn't sound much fun to me. If you want to be one, why aren't you doing it now? Fear that the world isn't going to end?

I'm always nervous of people who are good in order to get into Heaven - don't they think God might see through them?

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
Why would anyone want to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It? It doesn't sound much fun to me. If you want to be one, why aren't you doing it now? Fear that the world isn't going to end?

I don't see why it's so difficult to imagine that some people deny their desires in order to conform to societal expectation, or to avoid negative consequences (jail, for example).

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But if you do not believe in an afterlife but behave morally based on societal principles, are you free to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It?

Yes - but you'll pay for it on Dec 22nd!

Posted by Freddy (# 365) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Theologically, believing in an afterlife, one can say that you are required to behave appropriately even knowing that the world ends tomorrow (or Dec. 21).

Yes, because in that case nothing really ends. The consequences, regardless of what happens in this life, continue.

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But if you do not believe in an afterlife but behave morally based on societal principles, are you free to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It?

It is hard to conceive that anyone so skeptical as to reject the common belief in an afterlife would be so gullible as to fall for such a flimsy end-of-the-world scenario.

So, happily, there is no excuse either way to lapse into bad behavior. [Angel]

Not that many of us won't make the attempt anyway. [Two face]

Posted by que sais-je (# 17185) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
Why would anyone want to be a sloppy inconsiderate jerk just because it is the Case of The End of Civilization As We Know It? It doesn't sound much fun to me. If you want to be one, why aren't you doing it now? Fear that the world isn't going to end?
I don't see why it's so difficult to imagine that some people deny their desires in order to conform to societal expectation, or to avoid negative consequences (jail, for example).

I'm sure that some people are as you say. I was just commenting that I don't feel that way and I don't think I'm alone. It's just possible that some of us actually prefer trying to be helpful and law abiding. No more than that.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

If the world is ending, why buy supplies?

Exactly . Why not just say a few fond farewells , raise a glass at midnight, (if that's when it's due to happen), and just chill . No more worries , no more nothing . All rather pleasant when you think about it.

If you really thought the world would end Dec 21, what would you do differently this week than you normally plan to do?

Might try one last jump . You know, just for the hell of it like.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Might try one last jump . You know, just for the hell of it like.

I didn't know you were a parachutist - will this jump be bang on midnight or before?

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
It is hard to conceive that anyone so skeptical as to reject the common belief in an afterlife would be so gullible as to fall for such a flimsy end-of-the-world scenario.

Well, yes. I guess I wasn't really referring to the Mayan garbage, but theorizing a Planet Krypton concept. Suppose it was known beyond doubt that the planet will explode in a week and you are fresh out of spaceships because some politician decided that NASA didn't need the money. How would you behave? For those who believe in an afterlife and consequences in that afterlife, the answer is pretty simple. You make your peace with God and continue (or very quickly begin) to act properly.

But what of those who are certain that there is no afterlife? As long as the world is going to be here and there are societal expectations, there is good reason to behave decently. Some, as Marvin suggested, will do so because of fear of the law (and that is why we have laws!!). Others, as que sais-je mentions, might do so for no better reason than that they prefer to be helpful and decent. But in that latter case I would suggest that, underneath that simple preference is a recognition that such behavior is beneficial in a society. I do not steal from you with the understanding that you will not steal from me. I will not hurt you or your family with the understanding that you will not hurt me and my family. We then realize that, through division of labor, we can accomplish more cooperatively than as antagonists (I am assuming neither one of us is a politician--who are apparently philosophically incapable of cooperating). That then gives me more motive to make sure that you are protected--because if you get hurt, I lose the benefit of your help. Spread this to enough people and you have a society.

But what happens when the world ends (ka-blooey) in a week? That societal framework would, logically, seem to fall apart. And I don't doubt that many would behave anti-socially (just as many do already). But I think que sais-je is right: there would still be those who, even though the underlying reason for societal behavior has been removed, will continue to behave appropriately, helping others, doing no harm just because that has become their nature and what they are most comfortable with.

I am reminded of my grandmother. She was once on a small commuter flight when one of the engines went out. The man next to her panicked--crawling past her to get into the aisle--before the crew got the engine restarted. He later asked her how she remained so calm. She replied with the obvious: "Where were you going?" If the plane was going down, being first in the aisle wasn't going to help. I suspect, in the same way, if the end of the world were certain, there would be many who remain calm and continue to behave appropriately. After all, if the planet is going to blow up, what would be the point of behaving anti-socially?

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

Do we actually have Christians predicting the end of the world based on a pagan calendar? [Eek!]

This Dec. 21 urgency is probably a conceit of the infidels [Biased]

-- illustrating Malcolm Muggeridge's observation that when people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing: they'll believe in anything. But in general terms, we should bear in mind that it is quite traditional pastorally and liturgically to preach and medidate on the last things during this season of Advent. Could it be that we are catching a few echoes of that commendable theme?

Posted by Alogon (# 5513) on :

Perhaps it is apropos to note that Dec. 21 has long been known, at least to us Anglicans, as the Feast of St. Thomas, whose demand for evidence I find rather endearing.

He should be the patron saint of Missouri, "the show-me State". If I were on the chapter of our lovely cathedral in St. Louis, I'd suggest (since the opportunity to place the cathedral itself under his patronage was foolishly missed) that at least a chapel should be dedicated to him.

Thomas and his skepticism might well come instructively to mind when any Extraordinary Popular Delusions and Madness of Crowds ironically gather around his feast day. [Razz]

Posted by Inger (# 15285) on :

Not Muggeridge - Chesterton.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
After all, if the planet is going to blow up, what would be the point of behaving anti-socially?

May as well have a little fun before the big kablooie...

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

Are you saying that "fun" is necessarily anti-social behavior?

Posted by argona (# 14037) on :

I'd have the neighbours round and empty the drinks cabinet.

Posted by argona (# 14037) on :

And post-apocalypse doesn't appeal at all. I'd want to go out with the first bang.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Might try one last jump . You know, just for the hell of it like.
I didn't know you were a parachutist - will this jump be bang on midnight or before?

My be-loved nearest and dearest says midnight will do . I don't she's expecting the earth to move on this occasion either.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

I wasn't very interested in this Mayan prophesy stuff, until just now when I looked at the NASA denial that it's going to happen (released 10 days early, just in case they don't get a chance to air it, presumably). Including such reassuring statements as "you don't need to ask the government - just go out and look. It's not there." Now I'm really worried - the agency does protest too much.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
I wasn't very interested in this Mayan prophesy stuff, until just now when I looked at the NASA denial that it's going to happen (released 10 days early, just in case they don't get a chance to air it, presumably). Including such reassuring statements as "you don't need to ask the government - just go out and look. It's not there." Now I'm really worried - the agency does protest too much.

No. Sorry. You are misreading what NASA is doing there. You see, back in mid-Novemberish, news "leaked" (i.e., was publicly stated by the chief scientist of the Mars mission) that the rover Curiosity had made a finding that was "one for the history books." In fact, I think the term "earth-shattering" or "earth-shaking" was used to describe it.

And then, by the end of November, NASA was quickly stomping on the "speculation" (started by its own chief scientist) by stating "Nope. Just dirt. Nothing to see here."

So the "accidental" release of the Mayan video is just to further distract from the fact that NASA is covering up that they found hard evidence of an alien civilization on Mars. Obviously. [Paranoid]

Posted by Frankenstein (# 16198) on :

Surely this post ends on December 21st?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

There shall be two shippies posting. one will be taken; the other left.

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