Originally posted by PeteC:
Awwww, sweetie, you know I just want you to be a good girl.
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
quote:For a faith that uses this prayer,
Thinking that symbolically eating your dead-jew-on-a-stick cult leader somehow makes it OK to cause suffering is also pretty funny, I admit.
quote:Don't you think you should get over yourselves?
We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.
quote:For whatever reason, people who make that particular reductive argument against Christian belief often throw in the "Jew" part. You know, "How can Christians laugh at anyone else, when they worship a Jewish guy who died two thousand years ago?"
Because I think the wording kind-of implies that a dead jew might be considered as less worthy of respect than a non-jew. I'm sure RooK didn't actually mean to imply this - but I still think it's there.
quote:I can only speak for myself, not others. But the majoritarian (I suspect) perspective aboard the Ship is Christian, of one stripe or another. It isn't the only view on board, though. And to some of us -- especially when Christians start picking apart the inward contradictions in moral issues which may lie outside that system's purview -- that Christian viewpoint seems to ignore some pretty substantial elephants residing in the Christian living room.
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
So what are you saying then? Christians, who truly believe that they take Christ into themselves through the Eucharist, take your dead Jew and go play somewhere else?
quote:That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.
quote:And that is why YMMV applies in all places at all times. Interpretations vary by interpretor.
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.
quote:I haven't ignored you at all. I've referred it to the Admins to make sure we make the appropriate response to your attempt at martyrdom.
Originally posted by the long ranger:
What's the delay, Sioni Sais? Eh, I just committed the cardinal sin in full knowledge of what it was.
Eh?
Offenderati are you?
quote:Good good. Meantime I hope you appreciate the irony of allowing someone to troll blasphemous nonsense for his own amusement and yet get a bit hung up about a single word. Fuck you.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I haven't ignored you at all. I've referred it to the Admins to make sure we make the appropriate response to your attempt at martyrdom.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
quote:Come off it, Sioni - "a challenge to stay and discuss"? You really think that was what RooK could plausibly have meant there? Really?
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:And that is why YMMV applies in all places at all times. Interpretations vary by interpretor.
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.
quote:And that is a clear C6 violation (Respect the Ship's crew), which will also be passed to the Admins for consideration.
Originally posted by the long ranger:
quote:Good good. Meantime I hope you appreciate the irony of allowing someone to troll blasphemous nonsense for his own amusement and yet get a bit hung up about a single word. Fuck you.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I haven't ignored you at all. I've referred it to the Admins to make sure we make the appropriate response to your attempt at martyrdom.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
quote:Completely and utterly irrelevant. The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which are bad because they're ... wait for it ... offensive. Was Curiosity defending these usages? Nay not just defending but name-calling those who were offended by them? If so I apologize to him; if not he's a rank hypocrite.
Originally posted by PeteC:
Where on God's green earth has RooK ever used that phrase in an Administration (or even, Hostly) post?
Nowhere .
quote:As with so-o-o-o many things on the ship that result in hell calls, it's not the beliefs, it's the mode of expression. You've been here long enough to know that.
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
RooK has made his beliefs known on these boards.
quote:You seem to be forgetting that it was RooK who issued the original warning.
Originally posted by the long ranger:
I understand that some Admins are rather sensitive about a particular word.
quote:If you reckon RooK is not being treated on the level, take it to the Styx. I think there may even be a thread for it.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Completely and utterly irrelevant. The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia. Which are bad because they're ... wait for it ... offensive. Was Curiosity defending these usages? Nay not just defending but name-calling those who were offended by them? If so I apologize to him; if not he's a rank hypocrite.
Originally posted by PeteC:
Where on God's green earth has RooK ever used that phrase in an Administration (or even, Hostly) post?
Nowhere .
quote:Honey, have you considered that this is just a site where people visit, chat and amuse themselves? It is not (or should not) be an important enough part of your life that you get all bent out of joint over something like what RooK posted.
Originally posted by the long ranger:
Fuck you.
quote:Yes, but his expression epitomises his beliefs as expressed here (I have no idea whether this represents his position outside here, and that is irrelevant anyway). He expresses himself in ridicule of a parodied version of Christianity. this particular expression is simply a summary of his position.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:As with so-o-o-o many things on the ship that result in hell calls, it's not the beliefs, it's the mode of expression. You've been here long enough to know that.
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
RooK has made his beliefs known on these boards.
quote:Look, I get that you're deeply offended. That said, I also think offense is a personal choice you're making. What RooK posts is his responsibility; how you react to or interpret that post is yours.
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:That's not how I interpret "get over yourselves".
Originally posted by Porridge:
It's not an invitation to go play elsewhere. It's a challenge to stay and explain.
quote:Shakespeare, of course.
Thou canst not, love, disgrace me half so ill,
To set a form upon desired change,
As I'll myself disgrace . . .
quote:So you're saying that parodies are by their very nature not offensive? What an odd position to take. Do you consider the same of mockeries?
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I still would argue that if this is offensive to your beliefs, then you need to take a long hard look at your beliefs, because this is a clear parody or hyperbole of Christian belief.
quote:Carlsberg
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Am I the only freaking weirdo on the Ship who sees what Rook wrote as an aid to devotion?
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:Funny how nobody was upset about that.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on 25 May, 2009 07:14 :
quote:
Originally posted by The Atheist:
You also need to learn to read for context.
quote:
Here's the thing, you Zippo-wielding gasoline-soaked pile of shit, you don't appear to realize how lousy you are at communication. Sure, it's obvious that you were trying to backhand racist insinuations at the outraged dead-Jew-on-a-stick crowd - but you fucked up the timing. You were too caught up in your zealot's rapture to realize that you left that particular dingleberry hanging in a manner that lets it stick to you personally.
What can I say? You suck.
quote:Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
Originally posted by mousethief:
The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia.
quote:And leave the playground to the bullies.
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
I am the sensitive type so I should probably just fuck off and go and enjoy some zoophilia or something.
quote:That's as it should be in any rational society because vulnerable people are the victims of racism and homophobia - and don't come that 'political correctness' shit with me - whereas blasphemy is about God who is well capable of taking care of himself. Offending people is not as bad as persecuting them.
Originally posted by shamwari:
Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?
quote:Can you honestly not see that his trollery is not merely an insult to the aforementioned Jew?
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
Originally posted by mousethief:
The point is that he can get away with it where others can't get away with, say, using the word "priestess" or comparing homosexuality to pedophilia.
quote:On an overtly Christian website with a doctrinal basis I expect there would be injunctions against blasphemy, and they may have a heresy police too. The Ship of Fools isn't such a site and we don't have a doctrinal basis, just the 10C's and the board guidelines. Go read them and consign your prejudice about "political correctness" to the 1950's when it was perfectly OK to dismiss people for being gay, pay women less than men and refuse to rent flats to Asians, Irish and blacks.
Originally posted by shamwari:
Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Since when is racism and homophobia and all the other politically correct contemporary hatreds more to be deplored than blasphemy?
quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
Also there's a reason why people make a distinction between insulting people on grounds of race, sex and sexual orientation and attacking religious beliefs. Religious beliefs are up for debate and can be changed - the whole point of these boards is to debate them - you can't debate someone out of their race or sex. And one person's honest belief honestly expressed is another person's blasphemy.
quote:Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.
Originally posted by Louise:
Some of you don't seem to know what trolling is. It's posting things you don't believe or feigning a position you don't hold simply to wind people up. People who post what they do think in robust or offensive terms are not trolling.
quote:Think about what you just said and come back at some stage to tell us why it spectacularly fails on at least two grounds.
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
quote:Maybe, but there's a difference between the occasional wind-up in Hell and acting like a jerk/troll by pissing all over the boards.
Originally posted by mousethief:
Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.
quote:There is a world of difference between taking the piss out of someone's beliefs / opinions as part of a religious debate and attacking people purely because of what they are.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
quote:Think about what you just said and come back at some stage to tell us why it spectacularly fails on at least two grounds.
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
quote:Really? Because it sounded as though it was "political correctness" that you were opposed to.
Originally posted by shamwari:
I am utterly opposed to racism and homophobia.
quote:Indeed.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:Maybe, but there's a difference between the occasional wind-up in Hell and acting like a jerk/troll by pissing all over the boards.
Originally posted by mousethief:
Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.
quote:I seriously need to resit Trolling 101 if what Mousethief just said is not the case. I mean - this is basic stuff.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.
Originally posted by Louise:
Some of you don't seem to know what trolling is. It's posting things you don't believe or feigning a position you don't hold simply to wind people up. People who post what they do think in robust or offensive terms are not trolling.
quote:Religious debate? Do you really think RooK has taken part in any religious debates on this ship in the last year? I see him swooping in, making snide comments, and swooping out again. That doesn't look like religious debate to me.
Originally posted by Tubbs:
There is a world of difference between taking the piss out of someone's beliefs / opinions as part of a religious debate and attacking people purely because of what they are.
quote:Off the top of my head, I can think of at least one equally and far more regularly offensive in relation to anti-Christian rhetoric. And, if you spread the topic net wider, there are several others who are persistently offensive.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
But please - let's stop with the hypocrisy. Let's stop pretending that there is one rule evenly applied to all and that any Joe Schmo who said such stuff as regularly as RooK does would remain unchastised by the management. There scarcely could be.
quote:Always a bad idea to fling around mental health terms, especially so when protesting about someone else being offensive. If all psychopaths ever did was be rude to people on public forums, there wouldn't be much of an issue.
RooK is borderline psychopathic
quote:You mean without people disagreeing with them?
... and can say stuff and get away with it that many lesser mortals never would. And I'm saying this in defense of those who can't seem to get away with even pointing this out without getting roasted for it.
quote:Thanks Ruth. I just updated my sig.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Just because you have your panties in a twist doesn't mean you're being bullied.
quote:Um, I think you'll find I've already implied that in what you quoted above.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:Off the top of my head, I can think of at least one equally and far more regularly offensive in relation to anti-Christian rhetoric. And, if you spread the topic net wider, there are several others who are persistently offensive.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
But please - let's stop with the hypocrisy. Let's stop pretending that there is one rule evenly applied to all and that any Joe Schmo who said such stuff as regularly as RooK does would remain unchastised by the management. There scarcely could be.
You can't apply rules evenly to everyone where questions of taste and judgement apply - or at least, if you do, what you get doesn't look much like justice.
quote:You snipped a bit of my sentence there, old stick. Quote the whole thing and we can talk.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:Always a bad idea to fling around mental health terms, especially so when protesting about someone else being offensive. If all psychopaths ever did was be rude to people on public forums, there wouldn't be much of an issue.
RooK is borderline psychopathic
quote:I mean without getting pilloried for it. I don't mind that people can get pilloried for saying it. I just think that given how obviously true it is, and how completely differently the same pillorying posters treat others who offend in the same way as RooK, the hypocrisy of it chokes me a bit from time to time. And this is coming from someone who doesn't think there's anything that can or should necessarily be done about it - except for people occasionally to check their hypocrimeters from time to time.
Originally posted by QLib:
You mean without people disagreeing with them?
quote:But you are born to your race/ethnicity and your sexual orientation, however you come to feel about them. No one is born believing in any particular religion. You may be born into a milieu where accepting a specific set of beliefs is seen as desirable, but it is still elective in a way that the colour of your skin or who you fancy isn't.
Originally posted by shamwari:
But what people are is also wrapped up in what they belive no less.
Why the Hell shouldnt we be equally sensitive to that.? The pathetically childish remarks of Rook are no less an offence to the core being of some people than some racist terms I could use.
quote:Here's a host telling you, so take notice.
Originally posted by shamwari:
QLib and others have said that racist and homophobic remarks are objectionable because they offend what people are.
no problem.
But what people are is also wrapped up in what they belive no less.
Why the Hell shouldnt we be equally sensitive to that.? The pathetically childish remarks of Rook are no less an offence to the core being of some people than some racist terms I could use.
quote:You snipped a bit of my sentence there, old stick. Quote the whole thing and we can talk.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:Always a bad idea to fling around mental health terms, especially so when protesting about someone else being offensive. If all psychopaths ever did was be rude to people on public forums, there wouldn't be much of an issue.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
RooK is borderline psychopathic
quote:I suppose you think the qualifier "in some of his posts" makes all the difference, but I don't think it does when you are bandying around comments about psychopathology. Have you stopped beating your wife occasionally?
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
But RooK is borderline psychopathic in some of his posts, and can say stuff and get away with it that many lesser mortals never would.
quote:You "suppose" I think it makes a difference? You'd better believe that I do.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:I suppose you think the qualifier "in some of his posts" makes all the difference, but I don't think it does when you are bandying around comments about psychopathology.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
But RooK is borderline psychopathic in some of his posts, and can say stuff and get away with it that many lesser mortals never would.
quote:There are things one comes back for, and then there are things ones comes back in spite of... Coming back does not endorse the latter.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
The Ship is what it is and I still come back again and again.
quote:I just eat the chips.
Originally posted by Porridge:
What is this, the practice match before having the in-laws over for Christmas?
quote:Wow. You sure know how to humiliate someone. Don't bother replying. Miss Amanda is jumping ship and she won't be back.
Originally posted by Tortuf:
quote:Thanks Ruth. I just updated my sig.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Just because you have your panties in a twist doesn't mean you're being bullied.
quote:Whoa. (Or maybe woe.
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:Wow. You sure know how to humiliate someone. Don't bother replying. Miss Amanda is jumping ship and she won't be back.
Originally posted by Tortuf:
quote:Thanks Ruth. I just updated my sig.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Just because you have your panties in a twist doesn't mean you're being bullied.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
)quote:Quotes file if someone hasn't beaten me to it.
Originally posted by RuthW:
Just because you have your panties in a twist doesn't mean you're being bullied.
quote:In which case, my professional view in my capacity as a hellhost was that Rook still wasn't trolling.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.
Originally posted by Louise:
Some of you don't seem to know what trolling is. It's posting things you don't believe or feigning a position you don't hold simply to wind people up. People who post what they do think in robust or offensive terms are not trolling.
quote:Scroll key broken? Not interested in conversation? Go read something else. Bye.
Originally posted by Porridge:
Good grief.
Three friggin' threads all going full steam ahead over one tasteless jab RooK has made any number of times before. We ARE full of it, aren't we?
What is this, the practice match before having the in-laws over for Christmas?
quote:Fair enough.
Originally posted by orfeo:
He was, in fact, engaged in the conversation. I should know, I had to read the whole damn bloody thing.
quote:I agree. But I would add that you seem to have been close to 'Farewell, cruel Ship' more than once recently, in a way that seems, to a distant observer, to be quite out of (virtual) character. So maybe it's us or maybe it's something IRL. I hope you sort whatever-it-is out (I'm pretty damn sure it's not Tortuf) and come back.
Originally posted by Tortuf (to ABR):
I like you. I think you are a wonderful part of the Ship. Just because one insignificant part of the Ship likes one line from another poster and says so you are gone?
Think about this and take the time to cool off.
quote:I'm going to expand on this a bit more, in the wild hope that some of the more clueless of the Offenderati will get it.
Originally posted by orfeo:
He was, in fact, engaged in the conversation. I should know, I had to read the whole damn bloody thing.
quote:As requested I've slept on it and reread it and unfortunately I cant see the two grounds you are speaking of. Unless one of them is that obviously Jesus is here and with us now? Feel free to enlighten me or ignore me as you wish.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
quote:Think about what you just said and come back at some stage to tell us why it spectacularly fails on at least two grounds.
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
quote:Well, Fred, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
Originally posted by orfeo:
Because few things are more annoying for me to have to read than an angry non sequitur.
quote:That's just ducky. But you know we have to check them anyway, right?
(Hosts these are all links to Ship threads and I've checked them in Preview Post - goodness knows what typos I've missed though.)
quote:I'll meet you half way. Clue: "who may not have even existed."
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:As requested I've slept on it and reread it and unfortunately I cant see the two grounds you are speaking of. Unless one of them is that obviously Jesus is here and with us now? Feel free to enlighten me or ignore me as you wish.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
quote:Think about what you just said and come back at some stage to tell us why it spectacularly fails on at least two grounds.
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
quote:This is an excellent point. We find God in the shame and humiliation; and God is shamed and humiliated and mocked. Well done for that.
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Am I the only freaking weirdo on the Ship who sees what Rook wrote as an aid to devotion?
I mean, seriously. "Dead Jew on a stick." Yes, that's exactly what God almighty chose to become, of his own free choice, for love of us. In all its inglorious, mockable shame.
Given that he chose to make himself exactly that, I don't have a problem with someone bringing it to mind--no matter what the intent might have been. His self-disgrace is our glory.
quote:Shakespeare, of course.
Thou canst not, love, disgrace me half so ill,
To set a form upon desired change,
As I'll myself disgrace . . .
quote:An ITTWACW and a flounce all on the same thread! But I mean, really? You're really jumping ship because of this? Surely you've been around long enough to have been more insulted by better insults?
Wow. You sure know how to humiliate someone. Don't bother replying. Miss Amanda is jumping ship and she won't be back.
quote:That is not quite what I am saying. They are offensive, that is the point. My question is what you do with that offense, and the challenge is to see from the other persons perception - what do they see in my faith?
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:So you're saying that parodies are by their very nature not offensive? What an odd position to take. Do you consider the same of mockeries?
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I still would argue that if this is offensive to your beliefs, then you need to take a long hard look at your beliefs, because this is a clear parody or hyperbole of Christian belief.
quote:Of all the nonsense that has been posted on this thread, your remark deserves a response. Actually, it deserves a scolding, but I will try to be more restrained than that.
Originally posted by shamwari:
But what people are is also wrapped up in what they belive no less.
Why the Hell shouldnt we be equally sensitive to that.?
quote:You say that with such conviction in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary. I almost believe you believe it. Good job, Tortuf.
originally posted by Tortuf:
Well, I am offended because I believe this is a discussion site where there are no sacred cows*.
quote:Thank you for meeting me half way. Can't really argue that point here without derailing and there have been many threads in the past where the debate has been thrashed out with people saying that its all based on hearsay and arguments over what counts as evidence. As far as I can remember neither side convinced the other.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
quote:I'll meet you half way. Clue: "who may not have even existed."
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:As requested I've slept on it and reread it and unfortunately I cant see the two grounds you are speaking of. Unless one of them is that obviously Jesus is here and with us now? Feel free to enlighten me or ignore me as you wish.
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
quote:Think about what you just said and come back at some stage to tell us why it spectacularly fails on at least two grounds.
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Can you honestly not see the difference between someone being insulting about homosexuals who are here with us now and someone being insulting about a Jew who is said to have died on a stick two thousand years ago who may not have even existed?
quote:Beeswax Altar, I did add you to the list of Offenderati after your posts in the Styx, showing that you're refusing to put down the axe you're determined to grind.
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:You say that with such conviction in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary. I almost believe you believe it. Good job, Tortuf.
originally posted by Tortuf:
Well, I am offended because I believe this is a discussion site where there are no sacred cows*.
quote:Thanks for you tender concern, but in fact I'm very interested in the conversation. I'm also puzzled, though; until now, you haven't seemed the type to join a flash mob. Or a lynch one.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Scroll key broken? Not interested in conversation? Go read something else. Bye.
Originally posted by Porridge:
Good grief.
Three friggin' threads all going full steam ahead over one tasteless jab RooK has made any number of times before. We ARE full of it, aren't we?
What is this, the practice match before having the in-laws over for Christmas?
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
[Train-wreck of a x-post - but...]
quote:I seriously need to resit Trolling 101 if what Mousethief just said is not the case. I mean - this is basic stuff.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:Tolling is stirring shit. You don't have to not believe it. If you post something with no intention of engaging in conversation about it, but merely to wind people up, that's trolling.
Originally posted by Louise:
Some of you don't seem to know what trolling is. It's posting things you don't believe or feigning a position you don't hold simply to wind people up. People who post what they do think in robust or offensive terms are not trolling.
How could we possibly know - in most if not all cases - whether the person actually believed the stuff they were trolling about? Since when has it been necessary to establish whether trolls believed their own material for them to be planked?
I have nary a scintilla of a yearn for RooK to be planked or even disciplined over his jibe. I'm not even personally offended - even if I did wince a wee bit. I would rather gouge my own eye out with a spoon that condone such a bile-shot, mind you - basic fear of the Lord will do that to a guy. But people being able to say stuff like RooK does here probably makes me gladder for the Ship's existence.
But please - let's stop with the hypocrisy. Let's stop pretending that there is one rule evenly applied to all and that any Joe Schmo who said such stuff as regularly as RooK does would remain unchastised by the management. There scarcely could be. I wouldn't even expect or want that. The Ship is what it is and I still come back again and again.
But RooK is borderline psychopathic in some of his posts, and can say stuff and get away with it that many lesser mortals never would. And I'm saying this in defense of those who can't seem to get away with even pointing this out without getting roasted for it.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
quote:Offended? I'm just wondering how your thinking squares with what you have said.
@Zach - well I hadn't actually included you in amongst the Offenderati, but now you've decided to post here, I guess the cap fits ...
quote:WTF? I didn't say anything about RooK or his remark there. I questioned Spike instantly planking a largely unknown Shipmate over a prohibition that was issued two years back.
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Beeswax Altar for grinding an axe that he was told to put down several times and IngoB for just joining in. Seriously guys, if you don't like it, why stay here?
quote:Neither did I, but I'm on the list somehow.
WTF? I didn't say anything about RooK or his remark there....
quote:because you're one of the first people to be posting in long and boring detail how the Ship would be so so much better if it was run the way you say on every possible Styx thread.
There was also the same old, same old "look there's a Styx thread criticising the Ship" which the same old, same old jumped on, with the second guessing and criticisms from IngoB ... Seriously guys, if you don't like it, why stay here?
quote:What the fuck are you blithering about?
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
quote:Beeswax Altar, I did add you to the list of Offenderati after your posts in the Styx, showing that you're refusing to put down the axe you're determined to grind.
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:You say that with such conviction in the face of obvious evidence to the contrary. I almost believe you believe it. Good job, Tortuf.
originally posted by Tortuf:
Well, I am offended because I believe this is a discussion site where there are no sacred cows*.
I suspect what you are missing is that free speech is only possible on the Ship within the legal framework of the countries in which it operates. What you find unexceptional may well be illegal in another jurisdiction. And you do just have to get over it if you want to play on an international board. So just put that axe down before someone finds a good place to embed it.
What I found most nauseating about the Offenderati trotting out their outrage in the Styx was that a significant proportion* of them are amongst the more offensive posters on the Ship.
* that does not mean everyone, it means some
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
quote:Wait, what? Do your memories fail to remind you of what I was like as a Hellhost? I assert that I'm doing nothing but being myself, and the duties I have been asked to attend. Always have been. My vague similarity to Erin in terms of mode is why we became close, and not the other way around. Did she seem to you to be the sort to value suck-ups?
Originally posted by IngoB:
RooK trying to fill Erin's shoes
quote:You really do see the world in terms of how you would like it to be instead of how it is. Your conceptualization of how team site administration works with diverse volunteers is monumentally fucked up. Surely you must have guessed that by now.
My bet is on RooK leaving for good or returning to Hell host duties in the not too distant future.
quote:Not particularly, no.
Originally posted by RooK:
Do your memories fail to remind you of what I was like as a Hellhost?
quote:Your new duties and you being you (well, you being RooK) are not a natural fit. Your role as hell host was.
Originally posted by RooK:
I assert that I'm doing nothing but being myself, and the duties I have been asked to attend.
quote:I could not possibly tell.
Originally posted by RooK:
Did she seem to you to be the sort to value suck-ups?
quote:I'm glad to hear though that you are enjoying yourself so immensely in your new role as admin. May what you experience now grow and grow, every single day.
Originally posted by RooK:
You really do see the world in terms of how you would like it to be instead of how it is.
quote:ChesterBelloc, I notice you didn't quote anything. Did you or did you not say
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Justinian, as a supposed response to me your post upthread was so wide of the mark I don't even know what to say.
As I pointed out in the post you yourself quoted, I am not offended, do not think that RooK shouldn't be able to post such stuff, don't think offensive material should be censored and did not try to diagnose RooK with a psychological condition.
And your constant harping on about how offensive and evil just being a believing Catholic is sounds increasingly rabid and reaction-seeking. Now, there a word for that, if only I could think... on the tip of my tongue... Nope. Escapes me.
Apart from that, though...
quote:In reply I said
But RooK is borderline psychopathic in some of his posts...
quote:Are you now saying that RooK's posts are not what RooK does some of the time? Or are you being utterly disingenuous in your attempt to deny you said what you actually did - quoted by me.
You have seriously accused someone of borderline psychopathy some of the time
quote:I was pointing out that I could think of a number of posters who've said stuff that I consider far more offensive than anything RooK's said and the management haven't taken serious action.
Let's stop pretending that there is one rule evenly applied to all and that any Joe Schmo who said such stuff as regularly as RooK does would remain unchastised by the management.
quote:Has something upset you?
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
Someone is offended that other people are offended. And that person is offended that those who are offended express the fact that they are.
Hmmm... honestly, you couldn't make this hypocritical crap up!
quote:Well, let me clarify then, because I am not offended at what rook posted at all. You can hardly go a week without a pompous screed about how offended you are and a careful dissection of everything that is wrong with some other person. The fact that you are calling people into account for being offended is about the most self-righteous, hypocritical crap I have seen on the ship in a while.
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Zach82, you put yourself on the list by posting here with your offended little poses. And if you want to so label yourself, that's fine.
quote:You do realize that I've been an Admin for about 4 years now, right?
Originally posted by IngoB:
I'm glad to hear though that you are enjoying yourself so immensely in your new role as admin.
quote:Thanks, Boys. That laugh made my cough productive.
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:You do realize that I've been an Admin for about 4 years now, right?
Originally posted by IngoB:
I'm glad to hear though that you are enjoying yourself so immensely in your new role as admin.
quote:Like that song "I whip my hair back and forth I whip my hair back and forth...?"
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I did.
He grew up a lot.
And is anyone else starting to get sick of the word "offenderati"? It's like some damn pop song you know is going to annoy you for a year four bars into your first listening.
quote:Seriously? Wow. Time flies when you are having fun. Well, I'm speaking of myself there, obviously.
Originally posted by RooK:
You do realize that I've been an Admin for about 4 years now, right?
quote:Seething envy? Are you having lots of great sex, or something? Do tell.
Originally posted by RooK:
It's funny how your attempt at dripping sarcasm mostly scans as seething envy.
quote:And clearly, over this weekend someone added some crazy-ass nutrients to the crazy-ass petri dish, because the whole place has gone completely bonkers.
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think "hypocritical" is harsh. I think it's... well... some crazy-ass petri dish of human nature cultivating.
quote:Posts like this make it all worth it. Thanks, Justinian.
Originally posted by Justinian:
As far as I know RooK has never been offensive enough to accuse someone of killing babies. He has never been offensive enough to suggest that someone deserved to be tortured for ever (which is what Hell means in most conceptions). He has never been offensive enough so far as I know to liken someone to a paedophile, as one poster has over a ten year period.
As for someone else with a record of being offensive without being sanctioned, I'm going to call myself out. Highlights of mine include dropping an n-bomb in purgatory, accusing people who fly a certain depressingly common flag of celebrating a government as bad as Nazi Germany, stepping so far over the line in hell in recent weeks that the entire thread was pulled, and declaring certain religious ethics to be the ethics of Pontius Pilate. And for my sins I think I've had hostly comments once in Dead Horses, and once in Hell (and the DH was nothing to do with any of the above and more to do with personal circumstances at the time).
RooK's jokes about eating dead Jew-on-a-stick doesn't come close to the level of offensive either of us have been over the years - it's impossible to avoid being wildly, outrageously offensive if you are Pro Life or want to discuss Pro Life actions and take part in the abortion debate.
And why is all this pearl-clutching happening now? As Louise says it's not the first time that analogy's been used.
quote:Earlier tonight I typed out, then deleted a post suggesting that Ingo should invest in some lubricant because he's acting like someone who's chafed himself with all the masturbating he's done lately and is looking to take that pain out on other people.
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:Seething envy? Are you having lots of great sex, or something? Do tell.
Originally posted by RooK:
It's funny how your attempt at dripping sarcasm mostly scans as seething envy.
quote:No, I would have said human. The pool of humanity. Also much more... connected during this exchange than typical.
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Darn Ingo. Up until that last post I had never thought of you as a guy.
I had thought of you as this smart person, but never as a guy.
That crack about lots of great sex plonks you directly in the guy pool with the rest of us. Welcome.
quote:I would love to be in a flash mob. If you think this is a lynch mob, you really ARE hysterical and I owe Niteowl an apology.
Originally posted by Porridge:
I'm also puzzled, though; until now, you haven't seemed the type to join a flash mob. Or a lynch one.
quote:I've been having a great few years. I'm getting the sense that you seem to think I've been suffering as an Admin. Why is that?
Posted by IngoB, including stuff from The Styx:
Time flies when you are having fun. Well, I'm speaking of myself there, obviously.
quote:Well, yeah, actually. The great time has involved a couple kids, and the requisite part before kids. But what I was actually referring to was more a theory relevant to the hard time I was giving you in The Styx. I wonder if you feel the need to comment so much about policy because you think you would run them better yourself. Your lacking an intuitive understanding of the boards adds a dimension of Whiskey Tango Foxtrot to it all.
Seething envy? Are you having lots of great sex, or something?
quote:I own a first edition copy of Stranger In A Strange Land - I like, and meant, the original definition. But the subsequent watered-down definitions still work for our purposes.
First, look up what "to grok" actually means.
quote:It's actually kind of funny when I deconstruct my own processes about it to respond to you. I think part of the reason why I did so well in Hell is simply that my essential state when I focus my attention looks very aggressive, particularly because I tend to mix in so much snide and hauteur. I can dress up my mode in less aggressive terms, with some editing - indeed I've been working for a while now to do that more. Limited success, obviously. But I tend to relax the editing when I focus on you, because I think you appreciate the directness. And because I think you can take it with suitable equanimity.
why the hell you are trying so hard to pick a fight with me now.
quote:Based on how the software is faring, I think you might be on the wrong boat.
World domination, Pinky.
quote:Yeah right, we did this in the Styx. I've called one person a year on average since I joined the Ship. Four of those calls (so just over half) were calls on trolling and plagiarism. Two of those Shipmates are now banned for their behaviour, two got shore leave. I care enough about the Ship to flag up issues if I think they need flagging. (And not always by Hell threads either)
Zach82: Well, let me clarify then, because I am not offended at what rook posted at all. You can hardly go a week without a pompous screed about how offended you are and a careful dissection of everything that is wrong with some other person.
quote:Zach, get over yourself, really. I don't take Hell *that* seriously. If you look at the timing of this thread it was started several hours before Lamb Chopped's thread calling RooK to Hell and was trying to do the same thing - call the wusses in the Styx who were being oh so terribly offended by RooK's phrasing but not taking him to Hell as they'd been told to several times.
The fact that you are calling people into account for being offended is about the most self-righteous, hypocritical crap I have seen on the ship in a while.
And the little back pedaling game you are playing now is just the gravy. The person most fond of calling other people into account refuses to put her own actions up for examination.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
to the thread name - I don't think you'd have like Wusses come down any better.
quote:Feeling more validated now? Ok. Let's move on.
Originally posted by Justinian:
quote:ChesterBelloc, I notice you didn't quote anything. Did you or did you not say
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
Justinian, as a supposed response to me your post upthread was so wide of the mark I don't even know what to say.
As I pointed out in the post you yourself quoted, I am not offended, do not think that RooK shouldn't be able to post such stuff, don't think offensive material should be censored and did not try to diagnose RooK with a psychological condition.
And your constant harping on about how offensive and evil just being a believing Catholic is sounds increasingly rabid and reaction-seeking. Now, there a word for that, if only I could think... on the tip of my tongue... Nope. Escapes me.
Apart from that, though...
quote:In reply I said
But RooK is borderline psychopathic in some of his posts...
quote:Are you now saying that RooK's posts are not what RooK does some of the time? Or are you being utterly disingenuous in your attempt to deny you said what you actually did - quoted by me.
You have seriously accused someone of borderline psychopathy some of the time
As for the rest of your claim my post misses the mark, you are claiming
quote:I was pointing out that I could think of a number of posters who've said stuff that I consider far more offensive than anything RooK's said and the management haven't taken serious action.
Let's stop pretending that there is one rule evenly applied to all and that any Joe Schmo who said such stuff as regularly as RooK does would remain unchastised by the management.
So you're trying to disingenuously deny you said what you did when I almost quoted you verbatim, and then, by not quoting me, making it hard for people to check what was actually said all so you can launch an ad hominem.
quote:And finally, as I've already said at least once I don't believe it is even possible to be completely objective and even-handed about who get away with posting what on these boards. But certain posters do seem to me to get away with a shed-load more that others. That's life. Some people piss the H&As off more that others. So what thoeugh? That just means they're human. I see no way round that. It also means that sometimes they can be expected to be called on that.
MY moral standards? Hell, fisherman, if it weren't for prions and a well-enforced criminal code, I'd be torturing and eating humans as a hobby.
quote:Yeah, but that's why we have Hosts and Admins. Seriously, we're perfectly capable of policing the site on our own and we don't need Shipmates to be snitching on each other as well. All the "have you seen this commandment violation?" stuff kinda starts feeling like we're not being trusted to see it for ourselves, y'know?
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I care enough about the Ship to flag up issues if I think they need flagging.
quote:Seems people round here don't like hyperbole in Hell any more. Look how they've attacked RooK for it...
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
I really don't think anyone really believes I made a serious attempt to diagnose an psychological condition on a person I know only from their posts on a bulletin board. This is Hell - I was being hyberbolic.
quote:Curiosity Killed
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:Yeah, but that's why we have Hosts and Admins. Seriously, we're perfectly capable of policing the site on our own and we don't need Shipmates to be snitching on each other as well. All the "have you seen this commandment violation?" stuff kinda starts feeling like we're not being trusted to see it for ourselves, y'know?
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I care enough about the Ship to flag up issues if I think they need flagging.
quote:That's much better than vigilanteism. There are host admins to keep us in order and The Styx for members to query our decisions. It simply works better that way and the threads stay on track.
Originally posted by deano:
Surely if anyone see's a possible rule violation that has been missed, the right course of action is a PM to one of the hosts explaining your thoughts, then forget about it and let the hosts and admins get on with things?
Just sayin'
quote:Seems a bit unfair to have a go at Beeswax Altar about something he has already been called on officially. Particularly as it means he can't defend himself here without contravening a ruling made elsewhere. You're prolonging the very conversation my post was designed to stop. Don't.
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Beeswax Altar - I really wasn't having a go at you about being offended - offensive maybe, but not offended.
quote:Is that how your mind works? People can only complain about you if they are motivated by self obsession?
Zach, get over yourself, really.
quote:This coming from you?
Originally posted by IngoB:
And there rarely is an excuse for being an asshole...
quote:Oooh, let's hope your second thought is true. That would mean that good old Yorick is a Christian!
Originally posted by George Spigot
My second thought was, "I wonder if it's only the Christian members of the ship that call people to hell?".
quote:If you notice CK's hypocrisy and point it out, you are part of the Offenderati. Nice little passive-aggressive self-defense there, CK.
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Zach82, you put yourself on the list by posting here with your offended little poses. And if you want to so label yourself, that's fine.
quote:There's a sweet little ad hominem. If you point out that someone is hypocritical, you are "upset." Clearly SS and CK are working in tandem to avoid any of their ilk being called out as hypocrites.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:Has something upset you?
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
Someone is offended that other people are offended. And that person is offended that those who are offended express the fact that they are.
Hmmm... honestly, you couldn't make this hypocritical crap up!
quote:Projection, undoubtedly.
Originally posted by RooK:
I'm getting the sense that you seem to think I've been suffering as an Admin. Why is that?
quote:I see, your dick has long term memory. That's rather convenient.
Originally posted by RooK:
The great time has involved a couple kids, and the requisite part before kids.
quote:Running a board involves work, and I have plenty of that already. I see myself more in a sagely advisory role, with occasional words of wisdom dropping from my lips, eagerly noted down by a small army of awe-struck secretaries.
Originally posted by RooK:
I wonder if you feel the need to comment so much about policy because you think you would run them better yourself.
quote:Baiting by assertion is a shtick that never grows old for you, is it?
Originally posted by RooK:
Your lacking an intuitive understanding of the boards adds a dimension of Whiskey Tango Foxtrot to it all.
quote:I would love to "grok" Christ. Perhaps I do "grok" my little corner of natural science, as depressing as that would be. But SoF? I have not quite sunken that low yet.
Originally posted by RooK:
I like, and meant, the original definition.
quote:No and yes.
Originally posted by RooK:
But I tend to relax the editing when I focus on you, because I think you appreciate the directness. And because I think you can take it with suitable equanimity.
quote:Concentrating a laser-like focus of super-human attention on matters nobody in their right mind could possibly give a shit about has always the point of Aspergers-R-Us, i.e., the academe.
Originally posted by RooK:
I've just always been curious about your moth-like reaction to policy flames.
quote:That comment makes me doubt that you have ever watched Pinky and the Brain? Excellent for teaching brain anatomy, by the way...
Originally posted by RooK:
Based on how the software is faring, I think you might be on the wrong boat.
quote:And I see you more coated in sage, with occasional drops of lemon, as I eagerly lick my lips.
Originally posted by IngoB:
I see myself more in a sagely advisory role, with occasional words of wisdom dropping from my lips, eagerly noted down by a small army of awe-struck secretaries.
quote:This is one of the funnies things I have read on the boards in a long time (And by the way, thank you Bingo, thank you oh so much, for giving RooK a chance to brag about his awesome sex life Yet Again. Moron.) That and the thing Ariston Quotes filed.
Originally posted by IngoB:
[ see, your dick has long term memory. That's rather convenient.
quote:"Sunken that low?" Dude, in all seriousness, if you really really feel that way, you shouldn't taint yourself with our presence. No joke. Not that I want you to leave the boards-- like Rook, I think your presence contributes something around here-- but for your own peace of mind.
Originally posted by RooK:
Perhaps I do "grok" my little corner of natural science, as depressing as that would be. But SoF? I have not quite sunken that low yet.
quote:Thank you very much, Ingo, for making me feel good about myself. Because I can look at you and go, "Thank you Baby Jesus I'm not as self centered and conceited as that douchecanoe."
Originally posted by IngoB:
I see myself more in a sagely advisory role, with occasional words of wisdom dropping from my lips, eagerly noted down by a small army of awe-struck secretaries.
quote:Define 'fully'.
Originally posted by Tortuf:
You guys realize he was not being fully serious.
quote:Is that why you're writhing so? Because you think I'm baiting you?
Originally posted by IngoB:
Baiting by assertion is a shtick that never grows old for you, is it?
quote:He does deadpan irony? I'm unsettled.
Originally posted by Tortuf:
You guys realize he was not being fully serious.
quote:"Grok means to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the observed — to merge, blend, intermarry, lose identity in group experience. It means almost everything that we mean by religion, philosophy, and science — and it means as little to us (because of our Earthling assumptions) as color means to a blind man." - Robert A. Heinlein, Stranger in a Strange Land
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
"Sunken that low?" Dude, in all seriousness, if you really really feel that way, you shouldn't taint yourself with our presence. ... That is, if you really feel that way. Because personally, I think that is a full of shit statement.
quote:
Lily Weatherwax looked out at the multi-layered, silvery world.
“Where am I?”
INSIDE THE MIRROR.
“Am I dead?”
THE ANSWER TO THAT, said Death, is SOMEWHERE BETWEEN NO AND YES.
Lily turned, and a billion figures turned with her.
“When can I get out?”
WHEN YOU FIND THE ONE THAT’S REAL.
Lily Weatherwax ran on through the endless reflections.
...
Granny Weatherwax looked out at the multi-layered, silvery world.
“Where am I?”
INSIDE THE MIRROR.
“Am I dead?”
THE ANSWER TO THAT, said Death, is SOMEWHERE BETWEEN NO AND YES.
Esme turned, and a billion figures turned with her.
“When can I get out?”
WHEN YOU FIND THE ONE THAT’S REAL.
“Is this a trick question?”
NO.
Granny looked down at herself.
“This one,” she said.
"Witches Abroad" by Terry Pratchett
quote:This is my "community" insofar as I put considerable time and effort here in posting, and on occasion enjoy meeting people of these boards in the real world. But neither am I a big believer in "virtual" communities in the first place, nor is this place set up anything like a community I would like to belong to.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
RooK a mini-anti-Christ (imagines little finger in mouth) defending community and being part of it while IngoB a Christian steadfastly refuses to allow himself to be part of our little community using sophistry to defend and distance himself.
quote:RooK already wears a bonnet, I'm sure he will make a fine Juliet.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
RooK is wrong but loves us, IngoB is right but does not. Bizarrely, I choose RooK.
quote:Content?
Originally posted by IngoB:
This is my "community" insofar as I put considerable time and effort here in posting, and on occasion enjoy meeting people of these boards in the real world. But neither am I a big believer in "virtual" communities in the first place, nor is this place set up anything like a community I would like to belong to.
Considered as a community, this is a smug tyranny, in which the elite have all cards but one in their hand - and that one card is "production of goods" (let's not forget that we are all content producers for a website here).
quote:You know, Ingo, even though I usually find myself thinking WTF about a lot of what you write, about once every 6 months I find we're in fervent agreement. And it warms the depths of my cold, dark soul.
Originally posted by IngoB:
But I'm no Robespierre or Lenin
quote:Now would be a good time for one of the hosts to appear with a big, 'Mwhuuuuuhahahah'
Considered as a community, this is a smug tyranny, in which the elite have all cards but one in their hand...
quote:I tell you what; why don't you go on strike for a year and stop posting and do us all a favour.
Considered as a polis, what this place needs is a revolution which agitates the masses out of their unthinking stupor, infiltrates the centre of power with sleeper H&As, uses strike action against the content stream to gain concessions and sabotages the computational might of the elites with targeted hacking.
quote:Quite funny, but I preferred the original.
Originally posted by IngoB:
Considered as a community, this is a smug tyranny, in which the elite have all cards but one in their hand - and that one card is "production of goods" (let's not forget that we are all content producers for a website here). Considered as a polis, what this place needs is a revolution which agitates the masses out of their unthinking stupor, infiltrates the centre of power with sleeper H&As, uses strike action against the content stream to gain concessions and sabotages the computational might of the elites with targeted hacking.
quote:What a load of complete rubbish.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Oh the irony.
RooK a mini-anti-Christ (imagines little finger in mouth) defending community and being part of it while IngoB a Christian steadfastly refuses to allow himself to be part of our little community using sophistry to defend and distance himself.
RooK is wrong but loves us, IngoB is right but does not. Bizarrely, I choose RooK.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e.
quote:*Tunes lyre*
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Now would be a good time for one of the hosts to appear with a big, 'Mwhuuuuuhahahah'
quote:I was thinking he should go start his own board and see how he does at dealing with those who would love to disrupt it or destroy any sense of community that might develop.
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
posted by Ingo:
quote:I tell you what; why don't you go on strike for a year and stop posting and do us all a favour.
Considered as a polis, what this place needs is a revolution which agitates the masses out of their unthinking stupor, infiltrates the centre of power with sleeper H&As, uses strike action against the content stream to gain concessions and sabotages the computational might of the elites with targeted hacking.
quote:Agreed - but what use wisdom without love?
Originally posted by Yorick:
There's a thing. The only person here who can compete with IngoB for brute intelligence is probably RooK. YMMV.
quote:Now you are just doing it on purpose. Coming from you and the community you are emeshed in this is just TOO rich.
Considered as a community, this is a smug tyranny, in which the elite have all cards but one in their hand .....
quote:Been there, done that, was allowed back thought this quote from 1984 might spring to mind :
what this place needs is a revolution which agitates the masses out of their unthinking stupor, infiltrates the centre of power with sleeper H&As, uses strike action against the content stream to gain concessions and sabotages the computational might of the elites with targeted hacking.
quote:What I found in the end is that all my probelms with the ship were a mere relfection of my problems. Two plus two is five.
Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother
quote:Well, until you open the secret admin archives, it is pretty damn difficult to look behind the scenes. For example, was our little dance across Styx and Hell part of your recent bronification (a wide-eyed kitten in a bonnet rushing an asthmatic mouse through devastating ice storms to the hospital? are you trying to become POTUS?), or was it just a lateral defensive maneuver to distract attention away from Spike wasting a pesky peasant because he could?
Originally posted by RooK:
I took your defensive affectation of disdain as confirmation that you knew you didn't fully grasp Ship dynamics, but now my hypothesis is that it might be more like sublimation.
quote:I have no doubts that this is perfectly true.
Originally posted by orfeo:
You do realise, by the way, that your whole "the Ship is ruled by an untouchable elite" shtick is vastly amusing to myself as someone who recently became a Host, and didn't change my values or personality to get there (and in fact didn't particularly AIM to get there).
quote:Do you reckon that you have any favours to call in?
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I tell you what; why don't you go on strike for a year and stop posting and do us all a favour.
quote:Been there, done that, rent was too high after a few good years.
Originally posted by Niteowl:
I was thinking he should go start his own board and see how he does at dealing with those who would love to disrupt it or destroy any sense of community that might develop.
quote:that is because:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:What a load of complete rubbish.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Oh the irony.
RooK a mini-anti-Christ (imagines little finger in mouth) defending community and being part of it while IngoB a Christian steadfastly refuses to allow himself to be part of our little community using sophistry to defend and distance himself.
RooK is wrong but loves us, IngoB is right but does not. Bizarrely, I choose RooK.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e.
I've felt far more love and respect from Bingo (even tho I'm a schismatic heretic) than I ever have from RooK.
quote:*cough*Cresswell*cough*
Originally posted by Yorick:
The only person here who can compete with IngoB for brute intelligence is probably RooK.
quote:*cough*not brute*cough*
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:*cough*Cresswell*cough*
Originally posted by Yorick:
The only person here who can compete with IngoB for brute intelligence is probably RooK.
quote:And you choke on your spelling as you say it...
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
What I found in the end is that all my probelms with the ship were a mere relfection of my problems. Two plus two is five.
code:So let us now all praise the name of IngoB, the omega to our alpha, the grave on which we dance to give us new life.And shhh...
... quiet, brothers and sisters,
... hearken the mystery
... revealed only to the pure:
... he wasn't all that bad,
... he even failed at failing!
quote:srcew you and the OCD donkey you rode in on
And you choke on your spelling as you say it...
quote:Thank God!
This thread has ended
quote:Jaysoos, a conspiracy nut. So much for brute intelligence. Can we get a collection going to buy Bingo a tinfoil hat?
Originally posted by IngoB:
Well, until you open the secret admin archives, it is pretty damn difficult to look behind the scenes. For example, was our little dance across Styx and Hell part of your recent bronification (a wide-eyed kitten in a bonnet rushing an asthmatic mouse through devastating ice storms to the hospital? are you trying to become POTUS?), or was it just a lateral defensive maneuver to distract attention away from Spike wasting a pesky peasant because he could?
quote:Clearly you have never spent any time in the same room as XX.
Originally posted by Yorick:
There's a thing. The only person here who can compete with IngoB for brute intelligence is probably RooK. YMMV.
quote:General note to everyone starting popularity/brainiac contests
Originally posted by snowgoose:
quote:Clearly you have never spent any time in the same room as XXX.
Originally posted by Yorick:
There's a thing. The only person here who can compete with IngoB for brute intelligence is probably RooK. YMMV.
quote:It all hangs on that little "too", sweetie, doesn't it?
Originally posted by orfeo:
My main qualification was not saying outrageouly stupid things too often.
quote:Old Russian proverb (I won't bother you with the story): Not everybody who dumps shit on you is an enemy, and not everyone who offers to pull you out is a friend.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:What a load of complete rubbish.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
RooK is wrong but loves us, IngoB is right but does not. Bizarrely, I choose RooK.
I've felt far more love and respect from Bingo (even tho I'm a schismatic heretic) than I ever have from RooK.
quote:A particular favourite among shit-dumpers, in particular after a good shit-dumping, truth to be told...
Originally posted by QLib:
Old Russian proverb (I won't bother you with the story): Not everybody who dumps shit on you is an enemy, and not everyone who offers to pull you out is a friend.
quote:Right. Which one of you minions asked IngoB for his opinion while I wasn't looking? Haven't you learnt yet what happens when you ask for his opinion? Or even show the merest hint of interest?
Originally posted by IngoB:
But if people ask me for my honest opinion, they will get it. Undiluted. If they don't like that, then they shouldn't ask.
quote:Yes, yes it does. That was rather the point.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:It all hangs on that little "too", sweetie, doesn't it?
Originally posted by orfeo:
My main qualification was not saying outrageouly stupid things too often.
quote:I like "relfection", personally...
Pyx_e:quote:srcew you and the OCD donkey you rode in on
And you choke on your spelling as you say it...
quote:That's truly the oddest post I've read in a while. It has almost no bearing on reality.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:that is because:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:What a load of complete rubbish.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
Oh the irony.
RooK a mini-anti-Christ (imagines little finger in mouth) defending community and being part of it while IngoB a Christian steadfastly refuses to allow himself to be part of our little community using sophistry to defend and distance himself.
RooK is wrong but loves us, IngoB is right but does not. Bizarrely, I choose RooK.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e.
I've felt far more love and respect from Bingo (even tho I'm a schismatic heretic) than I ever have from RooK.
- Ingob is good mannered to you and has no responsibilty for running the ship
- RooK has had to clean up your childish messes too often
So in fact RooK loves you more because he cares for you in a real way. IngoB just tolerates you. You do need to try thinking a bit harder sometimes. Coffee helps.
Fly Safe Pyx_e
quote:That is because you are (thanks to the Ship) a world renowned idiot.
That's truly the oddest post I've read in a while.
quote:You've got that backwards. I don't care whether you are for or against me, agree or disagree, wear pink flannel with polka dots or not. In your terms, I care about being pedantic. In my terms, I care about truth. Is this the way to win hearts or even minds? No. But I'm not here to do that either. I'm here to work out truth by talking about it, partly because I need to work out some truths, partly because I rather enjoy being right about things - in particular when other people are wrong about things. Is this nasty and un-Christian? Quite probably. I never claim to be a righteous Christian, just that I'm right about Christianity. Is all this an abuse of a discussion forum? I don't see how. That seems to me the proper place for discussing things; and the rules of this place do not require socializing, just behaving in certain ways. I can do that. Now, people seem to be taken by the idea that this is a community. Fine. I have ideas about what a community should be like. Hell more democratic than how this is set up, for one. People get upset when I propose this. Apparently, all must remain as it has been, because it is the best of all possible worlds already, or something to that effect. Fine, I will go back to discussing truths then. That's why I am here.
Originally posted by Zach82:
If you have a flaw, in my view, it is your complete inability to recognize when someone is on your side. You can be fantastically pedantic with people that ultimately are agreeing with you.
quote:What hole? Save myself from what? I am a free man and do exactly what I want, within the limits set by this place. If I am in violation of any of these limits, do tell, and I will adjust my behavior. If that starts to impede doing what I want, I will leave. It really is that simple.
Originally posted by Zach82:
So I hope you will, contrary to your usual habits, take some advice: save yourself. You will not be able to dig yourself out of this hole.
quote:Well, have you seen what popular voting actually gets you?
Originally posted by IngoB:
Now, people seem to be taken by the idea that this is a community. Fine. I have ideas about what a community should be like. Hell more democratic than how this is set up, for one. People get upset when I propose this. Apparently, all must remain as it has been, because it is the best of all possible worlds already, or something to that effect.
quote:Why not simply lighten up a bit and visit heaven or the circus now and again? Haggises are humping cars up there in heaven - what fun!
Originally posted by IngoB:
If I am in violation of any of these limits, do tell, and I will adjust my behavior. If that starts to impede doing what I want, I will leave. It really is that simple.
quote:Fame at last. Awesome.
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:That is because you are (thanks to the Ship) a world renowned idiot.
That's truly the oddest post I've read in a while.
quote:That's it, in a nutshell.
Originally posted by IngoB:
I rather enjoy being right about things - in particular when other people are wrong about things.
quote:Make a nice change from "my cock's bigger than yours", which is quite a popular pasttime hereabouts.
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:General note to everyone starting popularity/brainiac contests
Originally posted by snowgoose:
quote:Clearly you have never spent any time in the same room as XXX.
Originally posted by Yorick:
There's a thing. The only person here who can compete with IngoB for brute intelligence is probably RooK. YMMV.
Before this goes any further, please be reminded that we ask no one whether they have passed Mensa or have an exceptionally high intelligence when they join. Especially in Hell, we do not do His brain is bigger and smarter than yours. Nor do any of the other boards. So find somewhere else for admiration societies, whoever is your pick of the day.
[Name in quote removed at the request of the original poster. PeteC]
quote:Ah yes.
Originally posted by PeteC:
Awwww, sweetie, you know I just want you to be a good girl.
quote:All we, like freaks
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Orfeo's right. Every last one of you has gone completely batshit insane.
quote:No one has ever suggested that this place is even remotely democratic. The very opposite has been stated a number of times, but that is a Stygian matter. More pertinently, has anyone ever prevented or even discouraged you from creating a "better world", democratic or otherwise? After all, what is more democratic than your very own bit of bandwidth?
Originally posted by IngoB:
Now, people seem to be taken by the idea that this is a community. Fine. I have ideas about what a community should be like. Hell more democratic than how this is set up, for one. People get upset when I propose this. Apparently, all must remain as it has been, because it is the best of all possible worlds already, or something to that effect.
quote:Oh PUUUUHLEAAAASE.
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
And the Ship hath laid on RooK the iniquity of us all.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
quote:All we, like freaks
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Orfeo's right. Every last one of you has gone completely batshit insane.
(All we, like freaks)
Have gone in-SA--A-A-ANE
Have gone IN-SA--AY-AY-ANE
have gone in-sa-ay-ay--ay-ay-ay-AY-ay-ay-ay-ane...
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
quote:I feel used. Like somebody smashed against me in a crowded train is rubbing his dick against me in order to masturbate.
Originally posted by QLib:
quote:That's it, in a nutshell.
Originally posted by IngoB:
I rather enjoy being right about things - in particular when other people are wrong about things.
quote:mousethief! Now I need a truck full of brain bleach to forgt this horrible image. Thanks, old boy! And here I wanted to visit you when I visit Seattle in July!
I feel used. Like somebody smashed against me in a crowded train is rubbing his dick against me in order to masturbate.
quote:Preferably on the the subject of the filioque.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
A single drop of unidentified fluid captured in an ellipse of bullet proof glass, with a strategically placed textured nubbin on one side, and an engraved extract from the catholic encyclopedia on the other ...
quote:Most truth is constructed within social interaction, so how you interact is integral to the truth you create.
Originally posted by IngoB:
In your terms, I care about being pedantic. In my terms, I care about truth. Is this the way to win hearts or even minds? No. But I'm not here to do that either. I'm here to work out truth by talking about it, partly because I need to work out some truths, partly because I rather enjoy being right about things - in particular when other people are wrong about things.
quote:Truth is neither created nor constructed. Truth is simply the accord of mental concept with actual reality. It is a kind of measure. Truth is hence essentially independent of provenance and circumstance. Arriving at mental concepts is not. This is unfortunate, because it taints the process of arriving at truth with inessentials. Any serious quest for truth hence leads to social constructs that precisely try to remove the influence of provenance and circumstance as much as possible.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Most truth is constructed within social interaction, so how you interact is integral to the truth you create.
quote:In other words, you believe in a God and Christ of your own making, who will change with your moods and preferences. It is your prerogative to worship your imagination, as long as you are willing to die with the eternal consequences on your head. I have precisely zero interest in your kind of religion though. Never had, never will. And no, this is not a rejection of "experience". All science ("science" in the old sense of the word) is founded on experience. And my religious convictions are founded on my experiences. The question is however what one does with one's experiences.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Your ontological claims usually involve a belief in an unchanging externality that interacts in fundamentally inflexible ways - this is particularly problematic when you chose to debate and discuss topics that are predicated almost entirely on subjective experience.
quote:Obutt, obutt, I'm desperate to ask a question but not desperate enough to create a new purg thread.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Hostly Notice
I don't want to discourage you, as The Nature of Truth is a worthy topic, but it is tangential to this thread, so I've asked the Purgatory hosts if they would like it.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
quote:If you've asked before and got nowhere what makes you think you'll do better this time? He may be a modernist but he is consistent.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:Obutt, obutt, I'm desperate to ask a question but not desperate enough to create a new purg thread.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Hostly Notice
I don't want to discourage you, as The Nature of Truth is a worthy topic, but it is tangential to this thread, so I've asked the Purgatory hosts if they would like it.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
Please sir, may I have some more?
OTOH, I think I've asked Bingo the question before and got nowhere. He's such a modernist. So passe.
quote:True story.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If you've asked before and got nowhere what makes you think you'll do better this time? He may be a modernist but he is consistent.
quote:Grasshopper?
Originally posted by PeteC:
PM him Grasshopper. Just leave the rest of us out of this masturbatory exercise.
quote:They usually do.
Originally posted by Yorick:
I wish someone would involve me in a masturbatory exercise.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
quote:If you've not been getting enough masturbatory exercise, you've only yourself to blame.
Originally posted by Yorick:
I wish someone would involve me in a masturbatory exercise.
quote:One one hand, you are correct.
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:If you've not been getting enough masturbatory exercise, you've only yourself to blame.
Originally posted by Yorick:
I wish someone would involve me in a masturbatory exercise.
quote:I have started a thread on truth claims in purgatory.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Hostly Notice
I don't want to discourage you, as The Nature of Truth is a worthy topic, but it is tangential to this thread, so I've asked the Purgatory hosts if they would like it.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
quote:I do remember darkly that you had asked some "postmodernist" question about how I could know something pertaining to faith on some thread, which I did not get back to answer. Sorry, but it happens. Feel free to resurrect the question. It was not too long ago, maybe the thread is even still around.
Originally posted by Evensong:
OTOH, I think I've asked Bingo the question before and got nowhere. He's such a modernist. So passe.
quote:I am delighted! Many thanks.
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:I have started a thread on truth claims in purgatory.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Hostly Notice
I don't want to discourage you, as The Nature of Truth is a worthy topic, but it is tangential to this thread, so I've asked the Purgatory hosts if they would like it.
Sioni Sais
Hellhost
quote:Abuse of Hostly powers!! Help! Help! We're being oppressed!
Originally posted by comet:
[deleted pointless post that seemed way more clever before morning coffee. Now it looks dumb. and I can do this, so I am. so hah. -comet, grounded from posting in the early morning]
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
quote:It was just as well comet did delete that post. I had already warned about further mention of *that subject*, so it was by way of another last warning.
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:Abuse of Hostly powers!! Help! Help! We're being oppressed!
Originally posted by comet:
[deleted pointless post that seemed way more clever before morning coffee. Now it looks dumb. and I can do this, so I am. so hah. -comet, grounded from posting in the early morning]
quote:So now you understand consistency, cool.
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:True story.
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If you've asked before and got nowhere what makes you think you'll do better this time? He may be a modernist but he is consistent.
Consistency is the hallmark of modernism.
So dull.
