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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: You're 51 going on 13, Gamaliel...
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
Yes, you're so right, Gamaliel. I'm a charismatic nutter.
There. I've admitted it. Happy now?
I'm totally up the creek. Deluded. My spiritual life is as 'precious' to me as guns are to the 2nd amendment "It'll be 1776 all over again" fanatics. After all, you said it (and everything you say is sooooo incontrovertibly true):
quote:
Bluntly, I get the impression that EE's reaction over this issue is rather like that of some US gun-lobbyists if you even entertain the possibility of introducing further gun controls.
'You ain't a-takin' any of ma guns!'
'I'm not after your guns, I'm simply suggesting that the legislation should be looked at that governs these things ...'
'You ain't a-takin' ma guns off-of me ... The 2nd Amendment tells me I've a right to ma shootin' irons ...'
'I'm not after your guns, I'm just saying that ...'
'You ain't a-takin' ma guns off-of me ...'
Only, with the 'tongues' issue it goes like this:
'Let's look at this exegetically, it doesn't quite fit the standard schemas that charismatics customarily adopt ...'
'You ain't a-taking ma tongues off-of me ...'
'I'm not suggesting that you stop speaking in tongues, I'm simply suggesting that we're making a considerable exegetical and hermeneutical leap when we ...'
'You ain't a-taking ma tongues off-of me ... the scriptures say "Do not forbid speaking in tongues ..."'
'I'm not about to forbid speaking in tongues, I'm simply saying that it is very difficult to work out a consistent and coherent praxis based on ...'
'You ain't a-taking ma tongues off-of me, the Lord gave me them thar tongues ...'
What a pathetic stream of complete and utter bullshit.
But, hey, like you say (and therefore it must be true)... I am only a very young lad, and I'll grow out of it. Perhaps one day I might even become as super mature as you. Oooh, I do hope so!! (And yes, your suggestion to close down the Purg thread - "if we are all agreed" - would so help poor EE, because he is so emotionally fragile, isn't he? I mean we can all see how the poor soul can't stop reacting. Yes, Gammy dear, it's so touching; I'm welling up...)
And you were, of course, being so tactfully unpatronising with this little beauty (neatly packaged in so much very very very sincere apologising):
quote:
I won't patronise you by trying to guess how old you are - but it may have a bearing. I'm 51. When I was 21 or 31 I might have argued along the lines that you have done ... that's not to say I'm older and wiser and know better ... I've just come - or am coming - to different conclusions.
Oh noooo, Gammy. Certainly it's not as though you are saying that you are older and wiser. I mean I don't know how anyone could possibly imagine that you are saying that? It's not as though there is any discernible put down in what you said, is there? I realise that the phrase "it may have a bearing" just looks like English, but you were really writing something in 'tongues" - speaking mysteries and all that!
FFS, Gammy. Grow up.
But, hey, maybe you're right. Maybe one day (if I'm a good boy) I will enter the promised land of endless ambiguity, where waffle and mealy mouthed prevarication is the language of love and truth. I am sure I will grow out of this horrible "certainty straitjacket" that you are so devotedly trying to free me from.
But, seriously, reading your thousands of words of spineless and conclusion-less crap, makes me feel a great sympathy for Ellis Boyd Redding (Morgan Freeman) in the Shawshank Redemption. In his immortal words:
I don't give a shit.
Now, having cleared up this small point, can we please have a sensible discussion in Kerygmania about you-know-what subject, without all the personal digs and slurs?
Oh but no! Apparently I don't want a sensible discussion because wise old mature Gamaliel has pronounced ex cathedra:
quote:
I sometimes get the impression that he'd only be happy with an uncritical endorsement of his position, which rather defeats the object of even discussing/debating these things.
What utter and total crap.
Why do you think I opened that thread? So that everyone would agree with me?
Have you seen me getting upset with Kominsky or Josephine? It's not as though I completely agree with their positions.
No, the problem is YOU, Sonny. You have absolutely f-all to say about this subject other than:
"We just don't know"
"It's all so ambiguous"
"It's not clear"
"oh dear, oh dear, oh dear"
etc etc etc
But this does not stop you from smugly and superciliously sitting in judgment on those who have the sheer temerity to draw useful teaching from the Bible and try and live accordingly. What pathetic nutters they all are, don't you think?! But of course you are now "post-charismatic", and what a scintillatingly sensible person you are! A fine figure of a man, no less!
The Bible may be a load of incoherent bullshit to someone as 'mature' as you, but while you are walking the bracing mountaintops of unknowing, spare a thought for us poor ignorant simple minded plebs down in the valley who have deluded ourselves into thinking that there might just be such a thing as 'truth'. And that there might actually be some useful teaching in the Bible - perhaps even a praxis (to put it more pretentiously) - by which we can live our Christians lives.
But really the fact is that the reason why we can't have a sensible discussion is because you have nothing to say, nothing to contribute. You have nothing at all. Nada. Zilch.
Now be a good boy and off you go and do your bloody homework. And instead of farting around with endless uncertainties, why don't you come back with something that has at least the remote appearance of a conclusion. Because then - and only then - will you be in any position to correct me, if that is really what your great purpose in life is. And once you have successfully corrected this naive lost confused and deeply deceived little boy, do reward yourself with an extra helping of fudge cake (not forgetting the big dollop of cream). After all, you so deserve it, big man.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
You're a wankstain for Jesus.
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Who is, Yorick? Me or EE?
Ok, EE - it's a fair call. I deserve a Hell call for some of the stuff I've served in your direction. However ...
As the old saying goes, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean that the world isn't out to get you.
You couldn't exegete your way out of a paper bag. You're calling me immature but your attempts at exegesis are worthy of a 13 year old.
My kids could exegete better than you do.
Then there's this apparent inability to entertain the remote possibility that there might be other explanations for what goes on in the narrow EE universe. The same thing's been happening on the 'evidence' thread.
I apologise for the comparison with the 2nd Amendment gun-nuts, but that's how you were beginning to sound. A tongues-nut. Please, please, please don't touch my precious tongues ...
My mistake was to post it in Kerygmania and not in Purgatory - or even here in Hell.
I cut you a lot more slack in Purgatory than you deserved. You kept whining and whining that no-one could produce the kind of linguistic analysis you required even though Komensky and others had done so several times.
On plenty of occasions I clearly stated that I was keeping an open mind on these things and was more than happy - indeed, was relieved - when you suggesting a Kerymania discussion. Cool. So what do I find in Kerygmania? More of your two-dimensional and woodenly literal exegesis.
I'm glad you've called me to Hell. Now I can cut to the chase.
You're clueless. Sod off.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
EE, of course, is a wankstain for Jesus.
Even if there is a god (and, let's face it, there just isn't), he/she/it would surely dispatch this arrogant evangelical arsehole to a special corner of hell just for being such a douchebag. He puts me off religion like suddenly thinking about cancer puts me off my vinegar stroke.
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
EE, of course, is a wankstain for Jesus.
For sure, but this is still a good hell call.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
As the old saying goes, just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean that the world isn't out to get you.
You couldn't exegete your way out of a paper bag. You're calling me immature but your attempts at exegesis are worthy of a 13 year old.
My kids could exegete better than you do.
...
On plenty of occasions I clearly stated that I was keeping an open mind on these things and was more than happy - indeed, was relieved - when you suggesting a Kerymania discussion. Cool. So what do I find in Kerygmania? More of your two-dimensional and woodenly literal exegesis.
I'm glad you've called me to Hell. Now I can cut to the chase.
You're clueless. Sod off.
Ah, some honesty at last, instead of the disingenuous and patronising stream of insincere apologies, which fool no one with half a brain cell.
By the way... I must congratulate your children on their intellectual abilities. Their father obviously has a lot to learn from them. I assume, like me, they have the ability to draw conclusions and think logically, rather than come out with the sort of prevaricating and turgid non-committal nonsense that you spew out: "Oh it's all so ambiguous! Oh, we just don't know! blah blah blah..."
You call that exegesis?
I call that talking out of your rectum.
As for sodding off...
You've been the one who has had a curious interest in things that are none of your sodding business. I don't start trying to get into bed with you, getting all cosy and personal. I've tried to keep the whole thing objective. But no. That's not good enough for Mr Amateur Psychologist. You have this obsessive need to get me to admit to something, that I don't feel the need to admit to. You make all sorts of claims about things you can't possibly know anything about. It's just surreal reading your bullshit. What bloody difference does it make to you what I personally think about my own spiritual life? It's voyeurism.
No one else carries on like this. Not even people of the great intellectual calibre of the seriously philosophically challenged Yorick. When he wants to insult me, at least he's honest about it (oh, and I really do feel soooo guilty about turning him off religion. Poor sod obviously can't think for himself). He doesn't come up with a load of insincere flattery and pathetically deceitful apologies. And this crap about not being patronising: "I am not being patronising, BUT I used to think like you when I was in my twenties..."
You're a predator. You need help, man.
As for 'exegesis': look the word up. You might learn something.
Better still, ask your kids...
(As for your knowledge of linguistics... what a joke!)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It's a good Hell call and EE is still talking bollocks. In fact he can't help it. Everything he says is bollocks. It's not 'tongues' I have an issue with ... it's bollocks.
And EE is talking it. Big time.
If you think that your half-baked, half-arsed proof-texting constitutes exegesis then you are clearly even more deluded than might be thought (see, I'm prevaricating, leaving the possibility open that you might not be deluded - I have an open mind - you don't).
Everybody (except EE) appears perfectly capable of accepting that the passages we've been considering in Kerygmania and in Purgatory before that are ambiguous. Read any commentary, any serious theological work and it'll tell you that.
It's bleedin' obvious that it's ambiguous, that's why there's been so much debate about these issues and that's why not all Christians agree on these issues.
Duh!
It might not be exegesis in the way you understand the term but it's closer to it than the crap you talk. All you do is take some verses with your pre-existing assumptions and presuppositions and argue a case for them. That's not exegesis.
You're the one who is talking out of their arse. Tongues or no tongues, I can smell your farts from here.
Don't flatter yourself that I've got any curiosity whatsover about your beloved tongues. I couldn't give a flying fart whether you speak in tongues or not. Irish Lord Thingummy said the same thing the last time you started squealing and mewling and making a big deal out of it.
I don't think we were even talking about tongues that much on the 'pictures' thread until you came in making such a big deal about it.
To cap it all, you then have a go at me about my poetry - something you clearly know sod all about - suggesting that I might get upset if someone criticised it. Well, no, I wouldn't as it happens, because criticism would help me improve. Bring it on.
You've had a go at me over daft analogies - that's the daftest analogy I've heard this year so far. It's as if these tongues of yours are some kind of accomplishment, as if you've had to 'earn' them or work at them ... in the same way as someone has to work at a poem or some other craft or art form.
If they're spiritual gifts, they're spiritual gifts - they are GIFTS not something to be PROUD of. You seem inordinately proud of them, it seems to me ... and that's not because I've gone chasing you to find out, I'm just commenting on the way you seem obsessed about them and fixated with pulling down whatever alternative explanation there might be. You're clearly threatened by the whole thing otherwise you wouldn't be making a big deal out of it.
I'm not trying to get you to 'admit' to anything. Read.my.lips.
I.don't.care.if.EE.speaks.in.tongues.doesn't.speak.in.tongues.or.whether.he.uses.a.feather-duster.to.wipe.his.arse.
Why do you think you're so fucking important that any of us would be so bothered about your spiritual gifts and so on? Nobody here gives a shit.
Get over it already.
You're right about one thing. I did used to think like you in my 20s. Guess what? I grew out of it. You didn't.
I was trying to sugar the pill. I shouldn't have done. I should have called you to Hell in the first place and told you to sod off for being so pathetic.
You can't exegete, you can't argue as logically as you think you do and you can't argue your way out of a paper bag.
You're pathetic.
You're the one who needs help. Big time.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
And another thing - I've never claimed to be particularly knowledgeable about linguistics - although I've studied some as part of my degree - but I know a fatuous argument when I see one.
I get the impression that you could have a PhD and a life-long Professorship in Linguistics and it still wouldn't make any difference ...
You've not engaged sensibly with any of the linguistic comments posted by people who are way more knowledgeable than I am on the issue - such as Komensky.
You're a fucking mess.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
I assume, like me, they have the ability to draw conclusions and think logically,
ROTFLMFAO!
I haven't laughed this hard at an SOF post in quite a while, thank you.
Oh dear, you weren't being self-depreciating, were you? No, still hilarious.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
This is rather dangerous, isn't it? ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
I don't think EE and Gamaliel should be allowed to post on the same thread. Otherwise, the explosion of Extremely Long Posts could cause the Ship to develop a dangerous list to one side, and possibly even to capsize ...
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
At the very least, spin in circles.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Apologies, brevity isn't my strong point (and that WAS a self-deprecatory comment) ...
I do feel a bit bad about my last post ... it's too personal. I would like to edit it in some way.
It's too late, I've posted it, but it should really be 'you're in a fucking mess' not 'you are a fucking mess.'
I know enough about linguistics to know that words are important. The 'in' word is the key one. It's less ad-hominem that way.
I know we are allowed to be ad-hominem in Hell but I feel guilty. I'm more Purgatorial than Hellish. But it's a fair call ... to an extent ...
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I think they secretly fancy each other and need to get a room.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
Sheesh - whatever happened to responding in the opposite spirit? Any chance we could have a "turn the other cheek" board as a unique Christian alternative to a hell board?
Just sayin....
Posts: 476 | Registered: Aug 2012
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
You're both as bad as each other. I had half a mind to call you both to Hell.
I like you both, but EE, there are times when it seems like you can only debate with a rod inserted up your arse, and other times where you seem to miss the point by such an amount it's spectacular... And Gam, you can take a lot of words to say very little - and the "I'm not saying X, but...", when it's plain that X is exactly what you're saying... well, it comes across harsher than if you just said X in the first place. Plus the way you gravitate towards any thread on charismatics like a fly to horseshit can become tiresome, especially when it's just to say, well, exactly the same as what you've said on the last 49 charismatic threads.
But like I said, I still like you both. If you just stayed away from any thread that the other is posting on, I'd probably like you both even more ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Truman White:
Any chance we could have a "turn the other cheek" board as a unique Christian alternative to a hell board?
You could try this.
Generally speaking, though, the separate divisions of the Ship have meant that a far wider variety of viewpoints survive here alongside each other than just about any Christian board you will be able to find.
There's no need to contain conflict when everyone stands around congratulating each other for holding sound opinions.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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roybart
Shipmate
# 17357
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Posted
Posted by Truman White:
quote:
Any chance we could have a "turn the other cheek" board as a unique Christian alternative to a hell board?
Good question. Based on EtymologicalEvangelical's mind-boggling OP, the only benefit from the system of calling-to-hell seems to be to show the world just how twisted, mean-spirited, and vituperative certain religious obsessives can be, when driven over the edge.
Or, was that why Hell was created in the first place?
[ 21. January 2013, 18:14: Message edited by: roybart ]
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"The consolations of the imaginary are not imaginary consolations."
-- Roger Scruton
Posts: 547 | From: here | Registered: Sep 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
You're both as bad as each other. I had half a mind to call you both to Hell.
Then they could find a two-holer and exegete together.
Seriously, though, it is rather stimulating to have friends you disagree with. Can you guys just sit down, work things out, and then wipe each others' butts lovingly? You've both had rather interesting things to say at various times, and the contents of this thread are anything butt.
[ 21. January 2013, 18:18: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Fair point, Goperryrevs.
Mea culpa.
And stop being so holier-than-thou, Truman White ...
![[Razz]](tongue.gif) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
On a Purgatorial note, I think Purgatory probably brings out the worst of both EE and myself. EE gets himself into an entrenched position where he imagines that people speculating/debating about issues he feels strongly about are making a personal attack on his spirituality.
Whereas I've developed annoying debating habits such as 'I'm not saying you are a prat, but on the basis of that last statement you really are a prat ...'
Or, 'I don't wish to be rude but you're ugly.'
And so on. It's partly a Welsh thing. Rob Brydon sends it up particularly well. But I can't hide behind culture and so on ...
So fair calls.
Now get lost back to Kerygmania, Truman and stop sulking EE and stop imagining slights where none have been intended. We're really not that interested in your spiritual life. Honest.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
If the hell thread means you stop slinging half insults in at each other in purg, so we don't have to post warnings to calm down every five minutes like a stuck record, I am all for the hell call. It is exactly what hell is for - to stop people sniping at each other on other boards.
There is no virtue in avoiding it if you, (generic you), are then going to make personal / snarky remarks elsewhere anyway. You're not behaving any more nicely or 'christlike' if you are doing it outside hell - you are just choosing to pretend you're playing nice.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Does that mean I can insult you here in Hell, Doublethink? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Perish the thought ...
And yes, good call. I've been too snarky on the aforementioned threads.
I'll be honest ... my heart sank when EE started posting on the pictures one because he got into a strop over this issue before and accused me of bullying and so on.
I suspect there's a personality clash where we bring out the worst in one another - I'm sure we'd get on great guns over a cuppa or a pint.
I'm happy to bury the hatchet - and not in anyone's head either ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
quote:
Originally posted by Truman White:
Any chance we could have a "turn the other cheek" board as a unique Christian alternative to a hell board?
You could try this.
Cool.
Posts: 476 | Registered: Aug 2012
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Truman White
Shipmate
# 17290
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Posted
@ Gamaliel. Thanks for the invite, but like I said on Kerygmania I'vr got other fish to barbie.
Now behave yourself or I'll be back to call you to All Saints with a bag of Paul's blessing coals.
Meantime, I've got a picture for you you old cutie.
Posts: 476 | Registered: Aug 2012
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Imersge Canfield
Shipmate
# 17431
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I think they secretly fancy each other and need to get a room.
Could well be true, then the wankstains would be mutual - with a bit of luck
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'You must not attribute my yielding, to sinister appetites'
"Preach the gospel and only use jewellry if necessary." (The Midge)
Posts: 419 | From: Sun Ship over Grand Fenwick Duchy | Registered: Nov 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I think they secretly fancy each other and need to get a room.
There's a small gap they can fit into just behind Hell's main engine. And no, I'm not turning the blades off first.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
How old is EE, anyway? I'm genuinely curious now. It's always fascinating to discover whether my mental image matches up with reality.
[ 21. January 2013, 22:00: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
EE, of course, is a wankstain for Jesus.
Damn
My money was on Gamaliel.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
How old is EE, anyway? I'm genuinely curious now. It's always fascinating to discover whether my mental image matches up with reality.
In the other thread, he said 3 years younger than Gam, I think.
But maybe they're both 16 year old girls - internet anonymity and all that...
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It could have been both of us, Evensong.
As a liberal you must surely be aware that two things can be true at one and the same time.
Anyway, who rattled your chain?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I'll be honest, my mental image of EE was of an earnest young evangelical - someone in his 20s or 30s.
And yes, that was bloody well patronising of me.
I admit it.
My only regret (in that particular instance) is trying to be mealy-mouthed about it.
Here I stand ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Well, for what it's worth, my mental image of EE was of someone around about their 50s. The earnestness, as you put it, never struck me as the earnestness of the young.
Not that I win any prize or anything.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
Just so's you know, I'm 60, and was the target of a certain amount of patronising guff from Gam, so I guess that, even if his posting style is irritating at times, at least he isn't ageist!! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
No, I'm just patronising.
I 'grew out' of full-on charismaticism in my early 40s so it's about time you guys did the same ...
'It's joking, I am,' as Rob Brydon would say.
Perhaps I ought to adopt that in future so people will know when I'm teasing them or when I really am being a patronising pain in the arse.
Either way, I can be a pain in the arse. But you knew that already.
On a Purgatorial note, I don't think I'm an 'ex-charismatic' - I think I've simply shifted my vatic/charismatic tendencies in a slightly different direction.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs
In the other thread, he said 3 years younger than Gam, I think.
The answer to life, the universe and everything plus the first perfect number.
Perhaps that is why I am going through a "confidence and certainty" stage, which, if our dear 'umble and never patronising friend is to be believed, I will grow out of.
Can't say I'm looking forward to it...
(But then again, Mr "I know it all, because none us of can know anything" Ambiguity might conceivably be wrong.
Personally, I think I know where I prefer to place my bet! )
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
I 'grew out' of full-on charismaticism in my early 40s so it's about time you guys did the same ...
Hmmm, as late as that?
I grew out of it in my mid-thirties (if indeed I ever grew into it in the first place).
Obviously you're a late developer.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
At least I've developed ...
Actually, you've not been reading my posts properly (possibly you never have been) - I fully acknowledged being patronising and I've never claimed to be humble.
What I haven't done is claim to be using irrefutable logic as you have done - and got the biggest laugh on this silly thread so far.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
You couldn't stop me laughing either. You've had a self-awareness by-pass operation somewhere along the line.
You ought to be called Exegetically-ImpairedEvangelical because what you take for exegesis is really nothing of the kind.
You can speak in tongues until the cows come home, just don't pretend that you've arrived at this by some irrefutable exegetical and logical process.
I acknowledge that I can be a pain in the butt, however it's you who've been getting into a strop and taking these things personally.
That's your problem not mine. Part of me wonders whether this phase of deep certainty and security of which you speak is more fragile than you would have us believe ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
The answer to life, the universe and everything plus the first perfect number.
Oh that's right. Why say something with 2 digits when you can say it with a whole sentence and 2 links. The pixels of my monitor thank you ecstatically for the chance to be of service to your golden words.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
No, I'm just patronising.
I 'grew out' of full-on charismaticism in my early 40s so it's about time you guys did the same ...
'It's joking, I am,' as Rob Brydon would say.
Perhaps I ought to adopt that in future so people will know when I'm teasing them or when I really am being a patronising pain in the arse.
See, the thing is, your teasing is just a different means of you being a patronising pain in the arse.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Ok. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.
I'll just be a patronising pain in the arse.
Then everyone will know where they stand.
Just because I'm a patronising pain in the arse doesn't mean that EE doesn't deserve to be patronised.
If anyone deserves to be patronised it's EE.
He's got 'Patronise me, you pain in the arse' tattooed on his forehead.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Ok. I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.
This weirdly suggests that patronising people and teasing people are the only two forms of communication that are available to you. ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by roybart
Based on EtymologicalEvangelical's mind-boggling OP, the only benefit from the system of calling-to-hell seems to be to show the world just how twisted, mean-spirited, and vituperative certain religious obsessives can be, when driven over the edge.
I never realised that expressing anger towards those who cynically and patronisingly sit in judgment on others is "twisted, mean-spirited and vituperative".
I guess I'm in good company.
Read Matthew 23.
I rather like the "religious obsession" of the One denouncing those who bind heavy burdens on others, who delight in looking down on those they consider to be spiritually inferior, who mock their spiritual walk with God, who seem to have more love for the wisdom of the world than the wisdom that comes from God, and who despise the Word of God and dismiss it as basically irrelevant (i.e. ambiguous bullshit).
So thanks for the insult.
It's a medal.
I'll proudly wear it alongside my "wankstain for Jesus" one.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
I guess I'm in good company.
Read Matthew 23.
As soon as you can walk on water, you can be as snotty as Jesus was in Matthew 23. Until then, "Jesus did it so I can do it too" don't cut no ice.
[ 22. January 2013, 23:30: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Just reflecting on your comment, Orfeo - you seemed to be placing me into those binary categories ...
But fair call. There is a third way, there is a better way. I will endeavour to follow that in future.
Meanwhile @EE - for the 40-millionth time ...
Look, I am NOT trying to stop you speaking in tongues. I am not out to criticise your spirituality. This is not about YOU, the thread was about 'pictures' and charismatic gifts and how we evaluate them. It had nothing to do with YOUR gifts or YOUR spirituality - YOU CHOSE to take it that way.
Is it my fault that you are so hyper-sensitive that you take any robust and rational discussion of these issues as some kind of personal attack?
Sure, if you were posting things about people from South Wales and criticising them, I'd feel a tad got at ... even though I haven't lived there for many years. But I'd certainly acknowledge if any of your comments were on the money.
I accept that I've been obnoxious. I'll accept that I've been patronising. It isn't only you saying that, others have said the same. Fair enough. Several posters have taken my comments that way and called me on it. Fine. I accept those calls. I take them on the chin.
But why should it all be about YOU?
Why are apparently so threatened by the very idea that we might debate this issues and come to a different conclusion to yourself?
How does it injure or undermine your faith or spirituality in any way whatsoever whether I take a different view on this issue to the one you do or whether I worship the Speckled Green Jelly Monster from the Planet Zarg?
I have said time and time and time again that for all I know you might have the genuine article - that all the other instances of 'tongues' I've come across might not be legit' but yours might. I have no idea on that score. You might be the only person who has really spoken in tongues in the entire history of the church post-1st century - I don't know ...
All I get is you over-reacting to what you see as vague and inconclusive (and admittedly, lengthy) musings on my part.
I sometimes wonder whether I'm have been better off not even trying to find common ground with you or admitting the possibility that these things exist - which I do and which I have repeatedly acknowledged.
Given the black-and-white binary way your tiny little mind seems to work I think I might have been better simply typing:
'I am right. EE is wrong.'
Maybe then your completely unsubtle brain would have been able to process it. Black. White. No Grey.
It's because I've been introducing shades of grey that you can't fucking cope with it. Because there are no shades of grey in your tiny fucking mind.
Logical arguments my arse.
Black and fucking white. Black and fucking white. A colourless man in a colourless universe.
I've been an arse on some of these posts. Certainly. But no-one can say I haven't been fucking provoked.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
All I get is you over-reacting to what you see as vague and inconclusive (and admittedly, lengthy) musings on my part.
I'm afraid I can sympathize with EE.
Revelation 3:16 eat your heart out.
It's like intellectual prevarication wankery for Jesus.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
If I can engage in some armchair analysis here, I think this typifies your problem Gamaliel. You seem to do a mea culpa with
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
But fair call. There is a third way, there is a better way. I will endeavour to follow that in future.
but just before we have
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Just reflecting on your comment, Orfeo - you seemed to be placing me into those binary categories ...
Does the emoticon mean you don't really mean that and we should take the mea culpa bit seriously? Or does it mean that you can't really do a mea culpa without claiming that Orfeo got it a bit wrong and it isn't all your fault?
Then at EE you combine;
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I accept that I've been obnoxious. I'll accept that I've been patronising. It isn't only you saying that, others have said the same. ... I accept those calls. I take them on the chin.
with
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Why are apparently so threatened by the very idea that we might debate this issues and come to a different conclusion to yourself?
....All I get is you over-reacting to what you see as vague and inconclusive (and admittedly, lengthy) musings on my part.
Well if you accept that you've been obnoxious and patronising what do you expect?
And while I'm at the judgemental Gamaliel posting style critique I may as well go the whole hog and quote this from purgatory;
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I know people who had that kind of dramatic 'infilling' as we would have called it who later lost their faith or else got into naughty things ... cheating on their wives and so on ...
Not that this invalidates their earlier experiences ... but it doesn't quite ring true somehow - in terms of what's being claimed.
Well which is it? Does it invalidate their earlier experience or not? You imply it does with "doesn't quite ring true". I think that you know you can't claim it invalidates their earlier experience, but somehow can't quite resist making the point anyway. And if called on your "doesn't quite ring true" you will so "I've said it doesn't invalidate their experience" in a lengthy post with various "musings".
It makes engagement with the discussion quite tedious.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Ok - fair comments Evensong and mdjon.
I'm cursed with the ability to see both sides of every argument. I can also vacillate. It's a weakness. I can be indecisive in real life - but at times I can also be dangerously impetuous.
I studied a two-subject degree at university. Back in my full-on charismatic days elders, church leades and so on were always 'at' me because they thought I was 'double-minded' ... 'the double-minded man shall not receive anything from the Lord, he is double-minded, unstable in all he does ...' as James has it.
You can see why I didn't fit in.
So, if I can get back up off the psychiatrist's couch now, I suspect this is why I react strongly (rightly or wrongly) against personalities like EE - although I'm sure we'd both get on fine in real life and I don't disagree with all his points nor all his posts - far from it.
Perhaps EE is right and I do need 'help' ... ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
But if I do, I suspect it would be over different issues to those he supposes. We all need help and we all need one another ... even if we exasperate one another at times.
My posting style does tend to be - on the one hand this, on the other hand that, meanwhile ...
So I can see how frustratingly irritating that can get and I don't 'blame' EE for his Hell-call.
To an extent, I feel I'd be strait-jacketing myself if I posted differently, so I'm not sure how to proceed.
I will try not to be obnoxious though. Like I was back then with the dig at EE.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
So, if I can get back up off the psychiatrist's couch now, I suspect this is why I react strongly (rightly or wrongly) against personalities like EE - although I'm sure we'd both get on fine in real life and I don't disagree with all his points nor all his posts - far from it.
Why do you think he's so easily wound up by you?
(I think he's wound up by me too but we don't argue much as I back out quickly, being poor at arguing in the written medium - in RL I'd wipe the floor with him )
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm cursed with the ability to see both sides of every argument. I can also vacillate. It's a weakness. I can be indecisive in real life - but at times I can also be dangerously impetuous.
But that isn't the problem. It isn't that you see both sides of an argument that frustrates me, it is that you want to say x.... you can see that x doesn't quite hold water... but you don't post in the form "I would like to say x, but I can see that y invalidates it, nevertheless I'd counter with z", you post in the form "I'd like to say x... before anybody says y, I know about y... but x anyway".
Seeing both sides of the argument is fine. It is the having of cake and eating it that's the problem.
(By the way I'll try to remember this when the mdijon-posting-style-critique thread gets going).
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
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