Thread: Pine Tar and Rubbing Mud: The Baseball Thread 2012 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
This thread is to discuss all things baseball--and if you have any questions about baseball, feel free to ask.

So, spring training is just around the corner! Most teams start in about 7 days, but I think Seattle is starting either today or tomorrow. (BTW, does anybody know WHY Seattle is starting earlier?) A lot of things have happened in the off-season: Albert Pujols to the LA Angels! Prince Fielder to Detroit! Papelbon to the Phillies! And it is even theoretically possible that the Dodgers may, someday, actually have an owner!

The Pujols and Fielder moves fascinate me. Two big sluggers, both from the NL Central, and they both jump to the AL. It seems to me that Pittsburgh's chance of posting a winning record in the NL Central has improved considerably.

And, on a related point, congratulations to the Perth Heat, who just won the Australian Baseball League Championship! Both Game 2 and Game 3 were exciting extra-inning affairs.

[ 13. February 2013, 04:22: Message buggered about with by: Ariston ]
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
I'm just hoping and praying that someone responsible will buy the Dodgers. Though Frank McCourt was so awful, an entrepreneurial guy currently hawking ice cream and popsicles from a bicycle pull-cart could probably do better.
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Amen.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
First Giants' prediction. Zito won't last too long in the Giants' starting rotation. Look out for Surkamp to take his place.

Second Giants' prediction. They will bat better this season.

Hope Posey will be OK. Only one player, but a fit and confident Posey would make a very big difference to the season.

Pity Ross had to go - I was less concerned about Beltran's move.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
What do you think would be the best option for the Dodgers: a single obscenely wealthy owner or an ownership group where no one person has absolute dominance? The former allows for the entertainment of a (ahem!) colorful personality, but the latter may bring more stability. And, right now, I have got to believe that stability is what the Dodgers need.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
I know My Beloved But Hapless A's (*) are starting earlier to accommodate the games they are playing in Japan. Not sure whether the Seattle Sailorboys are on the same tour, but it would make sense to me.

* My SoCal nephew is a big Angels fan, so I guess there will be one happy camper in the Grace family this year. If Pujols stays healthy, the Halos will do well. Better them than Texas, IMO, but not great news for either the A's or the M's.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
And, right now, I have got to believe that stability is what the Dodgers need.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
I know My Beloved But Hapless A's (*) are starting earlier to accommodate the games they are playing in Japan. Not sure whether the Seattle Sailorboys are on the same tour, but it would make sense to me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
What do you think would be the best option for the Dodgers: a single obscenely wealthy owner or an ownership group where no one person has absolute dominance?

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quote:

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NY Mets and Hall of Fame Catcher Gary Carter has died, age 57. Brain tumor. He was one of the greats.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
What do you think would be the best option for the Dodgers: a single obscenely wealthy owner or an ownership group where no one person has absolute dominance? The former allows for the entertainment of a (ahem!) colorful personality, but the latter may bring more stability. And, right now, I have got to believe that stability is what the Dodgers need.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
We see this every year during interleague games with the American League babies whine about how dangerous it is for their highly paid pitchers to actually bat for themselves and run the bases. Tough. You knew the rules when you decided to pay the player and you knew that those rules might result in injuries. If you didn't factor that into your offers for the players, then I don't see it as the obligation of the sport to change its rules to make your bad investment into a good one.

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Time for the NL to adopt the DH rule.
Nothing more boring than an NL game where a pitcher takes his obligatory 3 swings or if he is more honest just leaves his bat on his shoulder.

Of course, my beloved Blu Jays will have another clunker of a season winning somewhere between 76 and 86 games.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caissa:
Time for the NL to adopt the DH rule.
Nothing more boring than an NL game where a pitcher takes his obligatory 3 swings or if he is more honest just leaves his bat on his shoulder.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caissa:
Time for the NL to adopt the DH rule.
Nothing more boring than an NL game where a pitcher takes his obligatory 3 swings or if he is more honest just leaves his bat on his shoulder.

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I despise the DH rule. Where else in the world do you get paid lots of money and then have someone do half of your job for you?!
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Blankety-blank-blank #$%^& junior circuit. Maybe some day they'll grow up and take off the training wheels.
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I should have expected a bunch of traditionalists on a Ship of Fools.

The NL will eventually institute the DH rule because it reduces injuries and increases offense. Most fans like offense. One of the reasons football hasn't caught on well as a NA spectator sport.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Junior circuit? We don't have that: we have Spring Training here...
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Junior circuit? We don't have that: we have Spring Training here...

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Ha! None of that diplomatic liberal claptrap here! I live in the hope that that johnny-come-lately American League learns to play real baseball, but I am afraid Caissa is probably right. It is more likely that the Grand Ol' National League will give in--if only because the Players Union likes the DH because it means its members can keep playing long past their normal retirement age. I mean, seriously, does anybody believe Big Papi would still be playing if they didn't have the DH?

On another topic, a couple interesting anniversaries coming up. On April 10, we will be recognizing the 50th Anniversary of Dodgers Stadium. A shame that they probably won't have an owner by then. No word if we will be celebrating the 50th anniversary of the parking lot which McCourt wants to hold on to.

Then, on April 20, we will be celebrating the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park. Not bad for a park in the junior circuit.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
When I were a lad in Pasadena, I was about three miles from Chavez Ravine (what locals call it). I thought the Dodgers had always been in LA until I found out otherwise late in the 20th century. Dad and I went there often. Last time I was there was about 11 years ago and we beat the Diamondbacks in overtime. I was the hero of my section (right next to the bullpen) when I yelled to Shef: "Gonzales is going to hit the ball to you!" Mr. Sheffield caught it! Too bad he did not become a franchise player!
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Wheeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! The first pre-season game involving 2 major league teams (as opposed to a major vs. a college) is being broadcast right now! Seattle v. Oakland!

HOME RUN!!! Michael Saunders, for Seattle. His first hit of the Spring.
 

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Posted by Shaggy (# 16844) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by RuthW:
I'm just hoping and praying that someone responsible will buy the Dodgers. Though Frank McCourt was so awful, an entrepreneurial guy currently hawking ice cream and popsicles from a bicycle pull-cart could probably do better.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Would that my Dodgers could continue back-to-back shutouts into the regular season!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
("Any baseball is better than no baseball.")

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So that explains the need to hunt down the National Baseball League. From my perspective it looks a bit like an almost-dead alcoholic slugging down mouthwash, but this goes some way to explaining things.


 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
("Any baseball is better than no baseball.")

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So that explains the need to hunt down the National Baseball League. From my perspective it looks a bit like an almost-dead alcoholic slugging down mouthwash, but this goes some way to explaining things.

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I won't deny it: There is a lot of truth to this.

But what actually got me looking was the fact that MLB was starting the season in Japan. I understand the desire to spread the MLB brand and encourage the growth of baseball elswhere, but it always strikes me as odd that they choose Japan--which already has a strong and long-established baseball culture. That got me thinking whether MLB had much of a choice--was there any place else to give a boost to the sport? Well, there is. The British NBL. And, for that matter, there also seems to be an active German Baseball League (although my sight-reading of German leaves a lot to be desired so I can only think that it is active....). Either of those would probably benefit more from an MLB visit than the Japanese league would.

But to get back to MLB, it appears new owners have now been selected for the Dodgers. What is the feeling of Dodgers fans of the new ownership group (apart from the obvious--that they have to be better than McCourt)?
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
The problem is that noone in Britain has heard of the NBL. (Baseball? That basically rounders, init?) I think that for an overseas adventure to be financially sensible you need a quorum of interest to build from. The NFL had that both from NFL Europe (London had a team) and from broadcasting at least three games per weekend live on free-to-view television for over a decade. But baseball doesn't have that exposure.

Maybe they should try Cuba?
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But to get back to MLB, it appears new owners have now been selected for the Dodgers. What is the feeling of Dodgers fans of the new ownership group (apart from the obvious--that they have to be better than McCourt)?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
The problem is that noone in Britain has heard of the NBL. (Baseball? That basically rounders, init?) I think that for an overseas adventure to be financially sensible you need a quorum of interest to build from. The NFL had that both from NFL Europe (London had a team) and from broadcasting at least three games per weekend live on free-to-view television for over a decade. But baseball doesn't have that exposure.

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By coincidence, there was a blurb in my morning paper today that puts another perspective on this. It comments that MLB's "biggest obstacle to playing games in Europe" was connected to the "inability to find a facility with the right dimensions and seating." However, apparently the forthcoming Olympic Stadium in London will be "big enough for a baseball game." So maybe in another couple years MLB games will be played in London.

On the Dodgers and the parking lot issue, I have heard rumors that the reason the new buyers were willing to agree to that arrangement is that they are planning on getting a new stadium anyway--in other words, Chavez Ravine may be facing the end of its run.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Where do the Croydon Pirates play? They should check out that venue.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
On the Dodgers and the parking lot issue, I have heard rumors that the reason the new buyers were willing to agree to that arrangement is that they are planning on getting a new stadium anyway--in other words, Chavez Ravine may be facing the end of its run.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
What do you think would be the best option for the Dodgers: a single obscenely wealthy owner or an ownership group where no one person has absolute dominance? The former allows for the entertainment of a (ahem!) colorful personality, but the latter may bring more stability. And, right now, I have got to believe that stability is what the Dodgers need.

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I also think so.

__________________
Watch Wrath of the Titans Online Free
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
I follow the Texas Rangers (from across the pond) - has anyone seen Yu Darvish pitch in Spring Training? I've just watched the highlights on the MLB website and he's looking pretty good to me; it seems he's adjusting well to baseball and life as a whole in the USA. Check out the curveball at 1:26 on this clip!
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I have not yet seen Yu Darvish pitch. Of course, you can never really tell in Spring Training how good somebody will be, but he has a good track record in Japan and most batters here have not faced him, so he will have an advantage for a time. This is much the same reason why there have been so many "rookie phenom" pitchers--who then go on to mediocre careers. Once the batters get to know the pitcher's tendencies, the edge often goes to the batter unless the pitcher also keeps improving. (For example, Roy Halladay was trying out new pitches this spring to keep the batters off balance.)

So I expect Darvish to start strong. The real question is whether he will continue to be strong by the end of the season. I suspect he will, but it is just a guess. Only time will tell.

And on the NBL front, the Croydon Pirates stumbled out of the gate, getting swept in a double-header by their hated rivals, the Essex Archers.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Isabella Grace:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hedgehog:
[qb] What do you think would be the best option for the Dodgers: a single obscenely wealthy owner or an ownership group where no one person has absolute dominance? The former allows for the entertainment of a (ahem!) colorful personality, but the latter may bring more stability. And, right now, I have got to believe that stability is what the Dodgers need.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
This is much the same reason why there have been so many "rookie phenom" pitchers--who then go on to mediocre careers. Once the batters get to know the pitcher's tendencies, the edge often goes to the batter unless the pitcher also keeps improving. (For example, Roy Halladay was trying out new pitches this spring to keep the batters off balance.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Yu Darvish had his first start yesterday. He had an Extremely Rough first inning, but settled down after that. I can understand first game nerves. I think his next start will be a better gauge of how good he is going to be.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Ozzie's Castro comment is mind staggering. I know he is a bit of a loose cannon at the best of times--but that is ridiculous! He is the manager of a team located in South Florida; he knows there is a strong Cuban presence in South Florida--and he then compliments Castro??? It is a little like going to a Holocaust Remembrance service and commenting what a nice bloke Hitler was.

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quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Thinking about it, the Rangers rotation could be really strong this season. Holland and Harrison both had great 2011 seasons and are looking good for this season, Feliz is tipped for greatness by some, and Darvish too. Colby Lewis, the opening day starter, might just end up being the weakest of the five.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
But what actually got me looking was the fact that MLB was starting the season in Japan. I understand the desire to spread the MLB brand and encourage the growth of baseball elswhere, but it always strikes me as odd that they choose Japan--which already has a strong and long-established baseball culture.

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As a West Coast resident and follower of both teams who were there - I think it was a brilliant on a number of levels. Definitely boosted the MLB brand in Japan, and is good for West Coast tourism - Japanese like visiting the SFBA and Seattle and taking in a game while they're here. Also good for keeping Japanese-Americans in the fold, at home. It was definitely a goodwill tour as well because both teams (both of which have Japanese megastars on their rosters) toured the damaged areas of East Japan - playing scratch games, doing clinics with kids, just taking in the extent of the damage.

Seriously, if the A's had such enthusiastic crowds at home, they wouldn't be talking about moving!
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Ozzie. Silly man, but he made a good job of his "no excuses" apology. I think it'll blow over, despite previous cases of verbal incontinence.

Giants. Brian Wilson is giving me the heebie-jeebies, yet again. He kind of avoids snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, in a nerve-twanging way. Bumgarner and Zito were very good; Tim Lincecum not so much. I'm a little nervous about the upcoming home games.

Jamie Moyer! Right on, Hedgehog.

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I agree with this post!

Holy crap, I didn't know that Zito had NEVER BEFORE pitched a shutout as a Giant. I know why the Giants fans hate him - he was much better when he was with MBBHA's - but he'd never pitched a shutout for them? Yikes!
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Amazin' Grace, you made several good points about the Japan tour and you've convinced me.

On to other news, Jamie Moyer won last night--and completely deserved the win pitching 7 innings without giving up an earned run. He gave up 2 runs in the 7th but they were unearned because of Yet Another Fielding Error behind him. Seriously, I looked it up. So far this year, the Rockies have (as a team) committed 15 errors. 7 of them (almost half!) have happened when Moyer is pitching. Despite this, at the post-game Media Feeding Frenzy, Jamie was complimenting his team for the "ton" of runs they scored for him and the "great" fielding behind him. He is such a class act.

And that means he has one more victory this year than the Croydon Pirates, who dropped another doubleheader this past weekend.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
What's up with Tim Lincecum? He seems to pitch pretty well up to about 50 pitches - then starts giving position and runs away. Another poor outing, this time against the As.

He's a bit young for pitchers' wear and tear, but I begin to wonder.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
The season has been odd so far. Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies all scraping the bottom of their divisions. Lincecum not being Lincecum. Albert Pujols not hitting a single homer for the entire month of April, etc. I don't know what to make of it all, really.

However, I have heard speculation on Lincecum that he may have an injury that he is refusing to disclose. Personally, I can't believe that a pro these days would ignore any problem in their body, knowing that health is the key to remaining employed. However, I guess the possibility is out there.

Oh, and no real mystery about the Phillies. Our bats don't have enough power to light up an LED.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The season has been odd so far. Yankees, Red Sox and Phillies all scraping the bottom of their divisions. Lincecum not being Lincecum. Albert Pujols not hitting a single homer for the entire month of April, etc. I don't know what to make of it all, really.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Entering play today, the AL East and the NL East share a trait in common--none of the teams in those divisions has a losing record!!! The "worst" team is Boston, with a 24-24 record (.500). That is ten teams without a losing record--The remainder of the major leagues (20 more teams) only have 9 teams without a losing record (and 2 of those are at .500).

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It continues. As a Red Sox fan, I have noticed that at the end of the season there are not infrequent occasions when there are three AL East teams with better records than the winners of the AL Central or AL West. What to do?
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Trisagion!

Must have missed it. I never knew you were a Red Sox fan. That's contained even more suffering than being a Giant's fan!

[Perhaps it is a spiritual discipline . ]
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Trisagion!

Must have missed it. I never knew you were a Red Sox fan. That's contained even more suffering than being a Giant's fan!

[Perhaps it is a spiritual discipline . ]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Trisagion:
As a Red Sox fan, I have noticed that at the end of the season there are not infrequent occasions when there are three AL East teams with better records than the winners of the AL Central or AL West. What to do?

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I have been thinking about this, Tris. And, while there is a theoretical solution, it will never happen.

The easy way to stop the problem you identified is to get rid of divisions, so there is just the AL and the NL and nothing else. And if you want playoffs (although, in that format, why would you need them?) then the top 4 teams (or however many you want) could play in the playoffs.

But that just reveals other inequities, because currently the various teams do not play a balanced schedule. For example, the teams of the AL East play each other more than they play any other team in the AL. Even with no divisions, there would be an imbalance. Currently, the AL has 14 teams and the NL 16 teams. They play 162 games per year. So, an AL team has 13 opponents. A "balanced" schedule with 162 games would mean that that team would play each of the other AL teams 12.461538 times. An NL team would play the other NL teams 10.8 times. Either is impossible. So, by simple mathematics, an AL team would have to play some other AL team more than it plays the rest of the AL. And if that is so, some team will play a stronger AL team more while another team will play a weaker AL team more--which is unfair. And ditto for the NL.

Now next year the two leagues will each have 15 teams (when the Houston Tumbleweeds switch leagues). This addresses the unfair imbalance between the leagues but creates the problem that you are forced to have interleague play EVERY DAY! And that creates the inequity that competing AL teams cannot play the same NL teams throughout the year, so some will be playing stronger teams while others play weaker teams. Which is unfair.

What would be fair is to add two more major league teams (Say, the Buffalo Bisons and the Iowa Cornfields). Then each league can have 16 teams and there would be no need to have interleague play--except that interleague play brings in big money, so getting rid of it will never happen. In any event, to have a balanced scheduled, you would have to play either 150 games per year (your team plays each of the other teams in the league 10 times) or 180 games per year (your team plays the others 12 times). You have to play an even number so that you don't have a home-and-away imbalance. If you only played the other team 11 times, one team would have 6 home games and the other only 5 home games, which is unfair.

But 150 games means the team owners lose a lot of revenue. And 180 games makes the schedule really crowded unless you dispense with playoffs. Except that playoff baseball is big money. So neither of those will ever happen. And of you don't have divisional play, then a LOT of teams will be mathematically eliminated early in the season an attendance will suffer. So THAT won't happen.

Bottom line: the structure that would eliminate all the inequities is Bad For Business. And, therefore, the owners will never agree to it. So we have to just accept that the structure is unfair. But (news flash!) Life is, on the whole, an immensely unfair proposition so why should sports be any better? Like I said about an earlier topic, you knew the rules when you started. If they turn out to be unfair to you, tough. One of the beauties of baseball is that it is fun to watch even if there are massive inequities in the structure. Just relax and enjoy it.

I am reminded of a line from the theme song of Mystery Science Theater 3000: "If you are wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, repeat to yourself: 'It's just a show. I should really just relax.'"
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 
Hedgehog
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Double

But then, Hedgehog, you and I are both National league purists. DH's are the work of the devil. Even David Ortiz.

Not sure if Trisagion will like that!

[tangent]
Lincecum continues to figure in losses and NDs for the Giants. And Halladay has fallen off his perch, too. As you said earlier, it's a funny season, this one.
[/tangent]

[ 07. June 2012, 21:24: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 
In fifteen completed seasons of inter league play, the NL has recorded most victories in four years and the AL leads 62 -45 in World Series wins. Aside from the mid-season flimflam of the All-Star game the numbers make poor reading for NL purists but maybe your fetish for line-drives consoles you when it's months since you last saw a HR.

PS. Don't diss Big Papi or he'll break into your ballpark and frighten the bullpen.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Last time I looked, my Dodgers had the best record in baseball! To early to guess who we might be playing should we get into the World Series...
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Is that what passes for smack talk in baseball? Disappointing.
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Is that what passes for smack talk in baseball? Disappointing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
You know Hell has frozen over when, even in June—it's not a season-starting fluke any more—the Nats and Dem O's both lead their divisions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Trisagion:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Is that what passes for smack talk in baseball? Disappointing.

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No, IF, it was an obviously unsuccessful attempt at a jocular response to the Barnabas62's leg-pulling.

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Worked fine for me. Mind you, the Giants' bullpen could probably take Big Papi most days of the week. Right now, I think Big Papi might do a lot of damage to little Timmy.

(Time to stop that one, I think)

[BTW, I didn't realise dissing the Yankees was in the Magisterium. Mind you, it would nicely balance grace and good spiritual leadership ... ]
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
[BTW, I didn't realise dissing the Yankees was in the Magisterium. Mind you, it would nicely balance grace and good spiritual leadership ... ]

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Certainly is. And what's more, I bet Cardinal Dolan is still a Brewers fan, notwithstanding his protestations about the Mets and theYankees.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Now this I would have liked to see.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
If my Dodgers had all gotten drunk, stoned or paid to throw the series with the desert rats, the result could not have been worse! Magic Johnson and the other club owners pissed away good money after bad when they acquired the services of Mr. Victorino who last played with the Dodgers in 1999. At least I have something in common with that incompetent imbecile: I cannot hit major-league pitching either! Who gives a fecking shite about three Golden Gloves if they don't translate into higher scores for the home team? Perhaps Mr. Mattingly should have ten hours of mandatory batting practice for everybody tomorrow!


 

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Posted by TomOfTarsus (# 3053) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Last time I looked, my Dodgers had the best record in baseball! To early to guess who we might be playing should we get into the World Series...

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Well, if they keep going like they're going, it may be my hometown team.

My dad, at 88, has been back in Pittsburgh for several years now. And if a Pirates game is on, he's in front of the tube. But he's never been to PNC Park, one of the most beautiful in baseball as I understand. So though I rarely if ever see a game, perhaps with his son to keep him steady, we can relive the old days - he used to take me to Forbes Field when I was young, in the days of Clemente, Stargell, and the Alley-Mazeroski-Clendenon double play combo.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Still best in NL West. Manager Don Mattingly and our team are awesome!


 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Still? The Dodgers had fallen behind the Giants and are now tied with them. Beating the crap out of Pittsburgh makes up for getting swept by the Rockies. The team isn't bad, but right now my admiration goes to the new management, which is gonna buy us a decent chance at the pennant no matter what it costs them.

Trisagion, when Americans talk about "the best record in baseball," we mean the team which has the best record so far this season, not the all-time best record. Right now the Washington Nationals have best record in baseball.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Sad as it was watching the Nats get beat last night (I guess it makes up for their 14-2 football score win the game before), it is just a little strange, after following the team through consecutive 100-loss seasons, to see them on top of everyone. Sure, there's the kerfuffle over whether or not to pull Strassburg (short answer: the guy's been proven to be injury prone, don't put the next seasons on the line), but still. There is a disturbance in the Force.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I think the Nats biggest worry is that they have not yet hit a real slump this year--it would be sad if they got into a slump just as the playoffs started.

My Phillies are pretty much buried this year in terms of playoffs. But, as a long-time fan, I am skilled in substituting other achievements to cheer for. For example, we still have a decent chance of finishing ahead of the Mets. Any season that has the Phillies finish ahead of the Mets cannot be all bad.

Tom, I find myself cheering on the Pirates (despite having been raised to hate them back when the Phillies-Pirates rivalry was the best in baseball). But one thing at a time! Secure a winning record (for the first time in 20 years) first! Any playoff contention after that is just a cherry on top! And, yes, you and your Dad should go to PNC to catch a game! It would be epic to be in the stadium on the game where the Pirates win their 81st game of the year and officially end the string of losing seasons! I bet when they get closer to that number, ticket sales will go through the roof!

And, Sir Kevin, yes, the Dodgers got saddled with Victorino, but the Giants got stuck with Hunter Pence (who celebrated by going something like 0-for-14). I knew Victorino's days in Philadelphia were numbered when we re-signed Cole Hamels (our pockets are only so deep). But being able to unload Pence (whom I have never warmed up too) on some unsuspecting team was just an extra bonus! Woo hoo!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I should have posted this last week, but I went to watch the Nats the weekend before last. Surprisingly entertaining, although I can never get over how different the American sporting culture is from the British one. But I won't go into that since now is neither the time nor the place.

The highlight of the game was when the Nats' pitcher hit a double with men already on base to allow the first two runs of the game to be scored. (I've probably messed up all the terminology there. Apologies. )

Oh. And the other highlight was the person sat behind us who wanted to make the biggest deal about how amazing the Yankees were. "Yankee Stadium is so much better than this hole" and "oh look, the Yankees have two men on with one out" and "the Yankees would've had this game won by now" and "the Yankees bullpen is way stronger than this shower" and so on. I was *this close* to asking if I could buy her a train ticket to New York, but I didn't because she was pretty fierce-looking. Yeah. I know.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I should have posted this last week, but I went to watch the Nats the weekend before last. Surprisingly entertaining, although I can never get over how different the American sporting culture is from the British one. But I won't go into that since now is neither the time nor the place.

---

quote:

---

The highlight of the game was when the Nats' pitcher hit a double with men already on base to allow the first two runs of the game to be scored. (I've probably messed up all the terminology there. Apologies. )

---

quote:

---

Oh. And the other highlight was the person sat behind us who wanted to make the biggest deal about how amazing the Yankees were. "Yankee Stadium is so much better than this hole" and "oh look, the Yankees have two men on with one out" and "the Yankees would've had this game won by now" and "the Yankees bullpen is way stronger than this shower" and so on. I was *this close* to asking if I could buy her a train ticket to New York, but I didn't because she was pretty fierce-looking. Yeah. I know.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
The highlight of the game was when the Nats' pitcher hit a double with men already on base to allow the first two runs of the game to be scored. (I've probably messed up all the terminology there. Apologies. )

---

quote:

---

Oh. And the other highlight was the person sat behind us who wanted to make the biggest deal about how amazing the Yankees were. "Yankee Stadium is so much better than this hole" and "oh look, the Yankees have two men on with one out" and "the Yankees would've had this game won by now" and "the Yankees bullpen is way stronger than this shower" and so on.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:

quote:

---

Oh. And the other highlight was the person sat behind us who wanted to make the biggest deal about how amazing the Yankees were. "Yankee Stadium is so much better than this hole" and "oh look, the Yankees have two men on with one out" and "the Yankees would've had this game won by now" and "the Yankees bullpen is way stronger than this shower" and so on.

---

Yankees' fans are a blight on the Universe. One assumes that God had a reason for creating them, but this clearly is one of those times when God's ways are inexplicable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I'm not optimistic about the Giants. They may make the playoffs, with some help from the Dodgers!

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quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I'm not optimistic about the Giants. They may make the playoffs, with some help from the Dodgers!

---

Over the last three nights the Dodgers did their best to help the Giants - hope you're happy!

Stupid Dog-germs. In three games never even took the lead.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:

Hmmn. It's the Dodgers who need help ...

---

Hold on. Looks like help is on the way!
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
No *@#$. That's major. Looks like the new owners are interested in spending money to make a champion.

I summarized it in a Facebook comment as: "Dodgers to Giants: GAME ON."
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 
B62, it's an old Red Sox tradition: have a crap season, sell all your players.
 

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Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :
 
Yeah, but it makes more sense than dismantling a winning team, which the Marlins have done twice now.

I'm a bit stunned. I figured the new Dodgers management would spend money -- I hoped they'd spend money! -- but adding almost $500 million to the payroll? Holy crap. And they say they haven't reached the limits of what they're willing to spend. And they claim that they still plan to rebuild the farm system. (Oh, be still my beating heart!)

You know how you feel when you've spent too much time in a bad relationship and the next guy is so much better, you can't quite believe your good luck? After Fox/Murdoch and McCourt, it's kind of weird to have Walter/Kasten/Johnson showing up on time, opening doors, inquiring about whether LA had a good day or not and buying us expensive ball-players.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Yeah, Lew Wolff (A's owner) was spotted at one of the SF-LA games at Chavez Ravine. He got a wee bit of flak among the local sports cognoscenti for showing up at a Giants game in LA when the A's were in a championship race in Oakland. I hope he takes the hint about spending at least a little more money .
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Anyone catch my A's last night? 20 runs, and bonus Petaluma Little Leaguers (3rd place finish in LL World Series).

7-1 tonight already.

Hope they can put some of these runs on the board when they face the Rangers (etc.). The wheels seem to have come off the Red Sox bus rather dramatically.
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 

 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
There was an interesting fluke in yesterday's Philadelphia-Atlanta game. In the first half of the first inning (i.e., the very start of the game), the Phillies scored 5 runs. In the last half of the ninth inning (i.e., the very end of the game), the Braves scored 5 runs. Bookends!!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by RuthW:

I'm a bit stunned. I figured the new Dodgers management would spend money -- I hoped they'd spend money! -- but adding almost $500 million to the payroll? Holy crap. And they say they haven't reached the limits of what they're willing to spend. And they claim that they still plan to rebuild the farm system. (Oh, be still my beating heart!)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
There was an interesting fluke in yesterday's Philadelphia-Atlanta game. In the first half of the first inning (i.e., the very start of the game), the Phillies scored 5 runs. In the last half of the ninth inning (i.e., the very end of the game), the Braves scored 5 runs. Bookends!!

---

The Phillies are on a very good late roll, Hedgehog. Wild card? Still looks a bit of a long shot, but they could do it now.

The Giants aren't playing all that well, basically at about 500 speed. Apart from Zito there has been some mediocre pitching recently (and that's not a sentence I expected to write this year). But the Dodgers still seem to be playing worse, despite that big spend. The Giants look good for the playoffs, not so good to make much progress. Unless the starting pitchers rediscover their arms. It'll be interesting to see which starting pitcher they don't nominate for the playoffs.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Well, the Giants have gone up seven games on the Dodgers just this moment (their games both finished). The way they're swinging their bats I'm not sure I care much if the pitchers are a bit wobbly. Last night they almost blew a large lead in the ninth, but tonight Lincecum had five runs before he even took the mound.

I listened to their game tonight because it started earlier. The last two nights I have audibly heard "Let's Go, Giants" from the stands ... which must be weird because they're playing in Colorado tonight. Most of the Rox fans left, I think. They did last night (because it was raining lightly throughout the game) and missed the thrilling ninth. Classic Giants "Torture!".

One site I was on had a commenter who said "The Nats and the A's are your 2012 World Series". I actually kind of want some of whatever that guy is on. I keep thinking the A's are going to break my heart again, and they keep winning ball games. Getting swept by the Angels last week, including the horrible injury to McCarthy, was really really bad. Deep dark bad. They seem to be bouncing back so far, though. Billy Beane has got to be Manager of the Year. Maybe he can get Clooney to play him in Moneyball Mark II .
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The Phillies are on a very good late roll, Hedgehog. Wild card? Still looks a bit of a long shot, but they could do it now.

---

Phillies are now 3 games out of the wild card spot. That, in itself, is within reach. The problem for the Phillies is how many teams are between them and the wild card. St. Louis currently has the top spot, but LA and Pittsburgh are next in line before you get to the Phils. And the Brewers are pretty much keeping pace with Philadelphia. And Arizona is not all that far behind. That is a LOT of teams that the Phils need to have stumble before we could get into the playoffs. Not impossible, of course, but I am firmly in the "believe it when I see it" camp.

On the other hand, the Phillies already have done their best to sabotage the Dodgers' hopes by dumping Victorino and Blanton on them. And, just to be fair, we also tried to hamstring the Giants by unloading the loose cannon that is Hunter Pence onto them.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I never liked Victorino. Ramirez is not such a good acquisition either. My Dodgers have the day off: perhaps they can regroup.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
And, just to be fair, we also tried to hamstring the Giants by unloading the loose cannon that is Hunter Pence onto them.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:

The Giants aren't playing all that well, basically at about 500 speed. Apart from Zito there has been some mediocre pitching recently (and that's not a sentence I expected to write this year). But the Dodgers still seem to be playing worse, despite that big spend. The Giants look good for the playoffs, not so good to make much progress. Unless the starting pitchers rediscover their arms. It'll be interesting to see which starting pitcher they don't nominate for the playoffs.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Phillies are now 3 games out of the wild card spot. That, in itself, is within reach. The problem for the Phillies is how many teams are between them and the wild card. St. Louis currently has the top spot, but LA and Pittsburgh are next in line before you get to the Phils. And the Brewers are pretty much keeping pace with Philadelphia. And Arizona is not all that far behind. That is a LOT of teams that the Phils need to have stumble before we could get into the playoffs. Not impossible, of course, but I am firmly in the "believe it when I see it" camp.

---

quote:

---

The Giants play at a world-leader level for two weeks and then they play like not the same team for the next two weeks. And if they're on a good two weeks, they could win it again.

---

 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
I heard that and I had to laugh. Although it's the A's that are skidding a bit lately. They lost a super tough one today. Fourteen innings!

Giants are up four runs on the Padres in late innings. They're six outs away from clinching the Western Division.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and clinch it they did. Maybe it's because the opposition from within the NL West hasn't looked too competitive recently, but the Giants seem to have run into very good form at the right time. I see Bochy is resting Lincecum today, which suggests he's not that much interested in chasing down the Nats or the Reds for NL top dog (a hard task anyway).

Looking increasingly like St Louis for the second NL Wild card. Whereas in the AL, there's a lot still to be decided.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Statistically, the wild card race in both divisions is about the same. Oakland has a 2.5 game lead over the Angels, while St. Louis has a 2.5 game lead over the Brewers.

But, having said that, I have to agree with you that Oakland looks far more likely to collapse than St. Louis does.

And Pittsburgh's slide is making it look that it will not have a winning record yet again. I really thought that they'd do it this year.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I think Dodgers-Angels would be a fun pairing!
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Man, I hope the A's stop their slide Real Soon Now.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Well, me too. I followed Ricky Henderson's exploits when I was younger. I would really enjoy it if one of the four teams in my home state of California got at least as far as the league championship series!
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Four of the five playoff spots in the NL have been filled (Washington, Cincinnati, San Francisco, Atlanta). And, honestly, St. Louis is pretty much a lock with a 4.5 game lead. The nice thing is that those five teams also have the five best records in the NL--which is as it should be.

Not so much with the AL, where nobody has clinched a playoff spot yet. But if the playoffs started today, two of the division leaders (White Sox and Tigers) would actually have records that are five games worse than the last wild card spot (Oakland)--and two or three games behind two teams that don't make the playoffs (Angels and Rays). But that happens with unbalanced schedules--and it will only get worse next year.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My Dodgers are still in the hunt for wild card and they won tonight.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
The Hunt for "GREEN OCTOBER" is done in Oakland! We clinched our playoff spot and are still alive for the division title. All we have to do (lol) is sweep Texas. Yeah, unlikely, but who outside A's management and the True Believers thought they'd win 90 plus games and get in the post season? Don't stop believing!

All AL spots are now filled but the AL East and AL West may go to the wire. Starting at the top of the country and going clockwise: Detroit, Thedamnyankees, Baltimore, Tex-Ass, and MY OAKLAND YAYS. 2nd place in East and West get the play-in game.

Looks like St. Louis-LA is the only Wild Card still in the air. LA's going to need a lot of help as their wild card elimination number (St. Louis' magic number) is 1.

I'm still thinking about the commenter on ESPN who predicted that the Nats and the Yays would be the WS matchup. I want some of what that guy is having. Definitely two teams that weren't taken very seriously before the season (and in the A's case, well into the season ... the Nats have been smokin' hot all year).
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Tough, Sir K. The Dodgers go home.

Zito's win finishes an excellent comeback season for him. I think Bochy will decide to sit Lincecum in the play-offs - and I think that would be smart. Not a sentence I expected to write.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So we have the playoff contenders!

In the AL, there is Baltimore, Detroit, Oakland, Texas and, ummm, oh, who was that other team? Ummmm, oh, yeah! The Yankees.

In the NL, there is Washington, Atlanta, Cincinnati, St. Louis and San Francisco.

I am, of course, disappointed that my Phillies didn't make it. But, to be honest, I came to terms with that reality about two months ago. With that being said, I think we have a nice selection of teams for the playoffs this year. Does anybody have any predictions? I confess that I think they are all pretty evenly matched. I think the only one that would completely surprise me if they won the World Series would be Detroit.
 

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Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Does anybody have any predictions? I confess that I think they are all pretty evenly matched. I think the only one that would completely surprise me if they won the World Series would be Detroit.

---

My heart says the Giants, my head says this is the Nats to lose.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
THE A'S WIN THE WEST!!

This is the first day of the season that they were in sole lead of the division - something like 2 teams have done this before? They came back from a 13 game deficit and made up the last five games with nine to play.

A-mAzing!!

And I've heard the first good thing about the horror we usually refer to as "Mt. Davis". Apparently when the ballpark is full, Mt. Davis reflects the sound back in.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Watched the A's last game of the regular season - that was a blast! They are on a tear and could go far.

So far as the NL are concerned, on paper the Nats are team most likely. BUT ... they could get toppled early. I've a feeling that could easily happen if Atlanta win the Wild Card playoff and decide that Chipper's retirement should be delayed for just a few more games. The Braves swept the Nats in a three game series in September.

Don't think it's the Giants' year. They'll only beat the Reds if both Cain and Bumgarner win the openers - and the Reds made Cain suffer in the Regular Season. The Reds look hard to beat.

For the World Series, and California Dreaming, Oakland/Giants would warm my heart!

But my head tells me Reds v Oakland, and the Reds to win.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Oh my God, Cincy and Oakland, that would be a real blast from the past. The Reds were *fierce* back in the Charlie O. days and were IIRC (of course I could look this up ...) the A's World Series opponents in their 70s run. I thought that Rose, Bench, et. al. were Very Bad Men (well, we now know Rose *was*.)

The Reds are now skippered by My Homeboy Dusty Baker (Dusty is the most famous graduate of my suburban Sacramento high school). He's coming to San Francisco this weekend ... and I'm sure it's payback time. The Giants didn't treat him well at the end there.

In other news ... even the "bandwagon" baseball fans have had the Infield Fly Rule thoroughly explained to them now. I was listening to the game as I drove home, and pulled in for an errand just after I heard "The ball dropped! Oh my goodness!" on the radio ... and turned it off before "It's being called an infield fly". The small silver lining for the Braves is that nobody will remember the three errors they made after this.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
A questionable call at a critical time. Looked that way to me. But Chipper Jones said the right things at the end. The uncharacteristic errors were damaging. Tough last game for him.

Will the Cards give the Nats as much grief as I reckoned Atlanta might? Not so sure about that, even allowing for the Cards' post season experience. Looks close.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Dare I ask for an explanation of the rule?
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The purpose of the infield fly rule is to stop the defense gaining the possibility of a double (or triple) play by the deliberately dropping of a ball by a fielder.

Here's the rule. The Wiki entry has been brought up to date already (impressive) to cover the ruling in question.

My problem with it was that it was a late ruling and it looked like a fielder's error (indecision, miscommunication) rather than a deliberate failure to catch - before the signal.

It's a judgment call - IMO a questionable judgment - but one which I do not think could be overruled.

Hedgehog is encyclopedic on these things and may have more to say - that's a half-educated Brit's understanding of the rule and why the specific ruling was questionable.

[ 06. October 2012, 11:35: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
MLB Network did a great analysis of the play with slow motion.

An umpire should not make an infield fly call until all the elements are in place. So, for example, you do not make it a moment the ball is hit because you have to see where it is going. You have to see if the infielder can catch it with ordinary effort. It does not matter WHERE the ball flies (in fair territory) if the infielder could catch it with ordinary effort.

In this case, you had runners on 1st and 2nd, so the potential for the infield fly rule existed. It was a pop fly. The shortstop went out. The umpire still could not make the call at that point because it was not clear that it could be caught with ordinary effort. The shortstop then turned and set himself to catch it. He settled under the ball. He could catch the pop fly with ordinary effort (i.e., letting the ball enter his glove). The very moment he did that, the ump immediately raised his arm for the infield fly rule. The only reason he did not catch it is because the shortstop then dashed forward so the ball dropped behind him. In fact, it dropped almost exactly where he had been standing!

Therefore, the umpire was right. With ordinary effort the infielder could have caught the ball. He was set to do so. The fact that he didn't is irrelevant because the call was made before he moved out of the way.

I know the shortstop did not intend to deceive the runners (the reason we have the rule in the first place). But he could have and the ump had to make the call for the infield fly rule as soon as the possibility presented itself--and he did. While a lot of people say it was a delayed call, he in fact made the call as soon as he could--as soon as the shortstop settled under the ball.

In short: the umpire was right.

And the Atlanta fans were wrong. You don't throw garbage on to the field no matter what.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Completely unrelated addendum. On Tuesday, I am going to the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY!

In Cooperstown, at the HOF while the playoffs are under way. Can it get any better than that?
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Completely unrelated addendum. On Tuesday, I am going to the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY!

In Cooperstown, at the HOF while the playoffs are under way. Can it get any better than that?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Did you think there was any real prospect of a double play? I didn't.

I was watching the infielder's eyes. Looked to me that he was concerned about the rapidly approaching outfielder, rather than having any intention of a crafty double-play move.

I thought he miscalculated, left it to the man behind.

---

I agree that the infielder was, in fact, just trying to avoid a collision and thought the outfielder would catch the ball. That was why he moved away rather than make the catch. He botched the play and was not trying to fool the runners.

But MLB Network did a very good freeze frame of the play and the ump's arm went up before the infielder moved away. It is too late to take the call back then. If the ump had known the infielder was going to botch the play, he might not have made the infield fly call but once the call is made, it is made.

Suppose the infielder had stood his ground. The ball comes down where he was. It hits his glove but he doesn't close the glove, so it falls to the ground. No catch. But the runners, once it hit his glove, would be heading back to their bases. He then picks up the ball and throws to 3rd and then to 2nd for an easy double play. That is exactly what the infield fly rule is designed to prevent and that was the potential that existed when the ump made the call. He had to make the call immediately once the potential was created so that the runners know what they can do.

But, as you point out earlier, Chipper Jones had it right. The call didn't decide that game. Atlanta's 3 errors decided that game. It is a shame that Chipper should make an error in his last game, but I would consider him a first-vote Hall of Famer. I hated that my team had to play against him so much, but he is one of the greats.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Thanks Hedgehog. Quite right about outcome of game as well.

Chipper Jones is a Hall of Famer, both for play and for class.

Playoffs -another close one in play in Detroit.
 

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Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :
 
Just popping in here to say, GO TIGERS!!!

I'm not much of a sports fan, but I'm loyal to my home teams.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Thanks for the explanations. Does this not illustrate how difficult it is for officials to judge players' motives in the vanishing amount of time they have to make their calls? There's a similar (if much less technical) example in soccer* whereby the referee can give a yellow card to a player who he or she thinks "simulated" a foul by the opposition in an attempt to get them penalized**. It's lead to a bunch of controversial decisions (some of them against Chelsea ) and something of a debate about whether this is a good way of arranging things. Okay, perhaps that's tangential, but I think my initial question stands: Isn't it a bit tough on the officials to expect them to read the players' mind in the middle of the game?

* We're on and American sport's thread so I figured I should use nomenclature from west of the mid-Atlantic ridge.

** And I'll replace 's' by 'z' in verbized nouns as well.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
The infield fly rule doesn't require the umpire to read a player's mind--only to determine whether he could have caught the ball with routine effort. This is not so different from the scorer's distinction between a hit and an error. Missing the ball may have been truly accidental--but it's not that hard, in the case of a pop fly, to say "He should have caught it."

Not looking so good for the Giants right now... However, having lived within sight of Crosley Field in the early '60s, I have some affection for the Reds and wouldn't be heartbroken to see them go to the Series.

And the Tigers are up by 2.

[ 08. October 2012, 03:31: Message edited by: Timothy the Obscure ]
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Not a good day for me as I am a bit of an A's fan and my father-in-law cheers for the Cardinals...
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Not looking good for the As, I agree. It would be a sensational sustained comeback now, especially for a team who made the play-offs thanks to a sensational sustained comeback. 'Spirit of Seve' necessary. Unlikely, but just possible.

On the other hand, my Giants need a miracle squared.

Clutch wins for Nats and Yankees give them momentum.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Well, the Giants got one miracle. They need a couple more.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
/BeeGees on:

"Ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, staying alive"

/BeeGees

let's go SF and Oakland!

/does the Bernie Lean and then sings "When the Lights Go Out in the City"
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Was thinking Otis Redding myself. A good, wistful, "what might have been, might still be, yet ..", song seemed just right for the occasion.

I suppose a miracle squared is still just a miracle. Looks more likely for the A's than the Giants, I think. There are some sizeable questions over the Reds' pitcher for Game 4 (and 5, come to think of it) following Cueto's problems. But who knows? It's the post season. Strange things happen.

I'll keep chilled listening to Otis.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
It's warming up ...
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Strange Game 4 - Lincecum got the win in relief (and looked like Lincecum 2010) after Zito bombed (and looked like Zito 2010). And the Giants' bats started to hit everything and anything - after basically hitting nothing. So we're out of miracle territory and into a one game shootout - which looks like a pitcher's duel. Love them!

So what are the As going to do? Too late for me to find out in Real Time. Night night to all in and around the Bay!
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Three runs in the ninth. Walk off! Game Five, baby!

The Morning Sports Guy who predicted that Zito would get knocked out early and Lincecum would be the hero of Game Four for the Giants was 100% right. I think part of the back chatter was that Timmy has been Worrying Too Much and the "Just do it" aspect could get him back in his 2010 "Freak" groove.


I think he said Reddick would be Mr. A's, so I have to check Josh's stats. Coco got the last hit for the win.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Actually "Don't Stop Believin" (which turned into the Giants theme song in their 2010 run) might be slightly more appropriate than "Lights" for the Giants. The A's are playing at home. Both songs work for them.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Amazing Grace

Just caught up on the MLB website. Now that truly was a Vatican-verifiable cast-iron miracle!

For the Game 5s, I think I'll mix Otis with Murphy-Monkeeing about.

Yeah - that ought to do it.

[ 11. October 2012, 06:27: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
x-posted. Good musical choices, AG. But I like the Shrek dimension. Something truly lunatic about a fictional Beverly Hills Cop turned into a fictional cartoon ass, cheer-leading "I'm a Believer". Kind of catches the mood, I think.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and worth a triple post. The Yankees seem to have had their own Ibanez-shaped miracle as well. Pinch hitter ties, then wins, both times with HRs. Has that ever happened before in the post season?

This is turning into a memorable October-fest. I may need to move into night-shift mode if this keeps up.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I am back from my trip to the Hall of Fame! I spent 7 hours there and, even then, I rushed some of the later exhibits just out of exhaustion. However, I am still on vacation for the rest of this week, so I can spend this afternoon and evening watching the various series play out. Two will finish today and the other two could possibly end today!

This has been a tremendous post-season so far, with lots of late-inning heroics. Barnabas62, I don't know if a pinch hitter/substitute has ever hit two home runs to tie & win. Certainly, it has not happened often!

And, looky at SF and Oakland both coming off the mat to force a game 5! But I won't make any predictions because, well, it seems that I am always wrong and that is getting embarrassing.
Besides, I don't want to jinx anybody.

So I have a fun day in front of me!!
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Sounds a wonderful day out Hedgehog - and we agree about this astonishing post-season so far.

I'm thinking that when it came to Giants/Reds I was a man of very little faith! It's the top of the 8th, Giants lead 6-3 and Posey has hit a Grand Slam. On the edge of my seat, waiting for the fat lady to sing ...

A most unlikely comeback is 6 outs away.
 

---

Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :
 
Nothing's the same without Chipper...
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Okay, the bottom of the 9th of the Giants-Reds game just demonstrates why I love baseball so much. That was intense!!

And now on to the Cardinals-Nationals game!
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The fat lady took a while! The 12 pitch duel between Romo and Bruce was epic and decisive. I was thinking that if Romo got Bruce out, he'd get Rolen. But if he didn't ... then I thought at best the save was blown, at worst the Reds would win in the 9th.

Haven't been that tense watching a finish for a very long time. I need a nice cup of tea while I listen to Otis, then Journey ...

Baseball is such a great game to watch! Nothing quite like it.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Cards-Nationals looks set to go down to the wire ...
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
And another 9th inning walk-off! Even more amazing, it came off the bat of Jayson Werthless. What were the odds?
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and did! Yet another fantastic walk-off HR finish.
(xpost!)

[ 11. October 2012, 23:10: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
He certainly proved his werth.

(Sorry.)
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
That's a clown comment, bro.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Can you believe it? Another tight game: Orioles-Yankees tied going into the 8th!
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
O-O-O-O, Yankees lose. Baltimore lives to fight another day. A Game 5 Sabathia-Hammel duel sounds like a good climax to an amazingly tight series.

I was disappointed for the As. Commiz to Amazing Grace, Sir K and many others I guess. Congrats to churchgeek and other Shipmate Tigers supporters. Hats off to Verlander. A great pitcher made it one come back game too many for the The As at the end of a memorable season,

Both my "head call" WS horses have fallen at the first fence. But I'm delighted - and still amazed - that my "heart call" Giants live to fight several more days. Think I'll give up on forecasting from here on in ..
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Oh this is going to be good. Hopefully both the Nats and dem O's win their next games—am I the only one hoping for an eventual, if unlikely, Baltwash Brawl?

[ 12. October 2012, 06:08: Message edited by: Ariston ]
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
A Baltimore-Washington WS would be a delight, although an all-MidAtlantic series would kill the TV ratings. You know some TV exec is praying that SF goes all the way.

I am glad Baltimore won last night. Wow! The Yanks and Orioles went 12 innings on Wednesday and 13 innings on Thursday. Anybody for 14 today?
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
How screwed up is the schedule this year? The winner of the Orioles-Yankees game this evening will have to play Detroit tomorrow (no rest for the weary). And I think (but do not know for certain) that whoever wins gets to be the home team tomorrow--so Detroit won't know until after tonight's game whether they are headed to NY or Baltimore. I wonder if they already have half the team checked into a NY hotel and the other half checked into a Baltimore hotel. Or maybe they split the difference and are all camped out in Philly?
 

---

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
I only got to see the last four or five innings of the NY-Baltimore game. Where was A-Rod? They really lost a chance to close this out.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Prester John:
I only got to see the last four or five innings of the NY-Baltimore game. Where was A-Rod? They really lost a chance to close this out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The ALCS scheduling is weird. I noticed that today, thought, "this has something to do with TV needs".

But it's an ill wind. As a natural supporter of "real baseball" (i.e. no DH), I'm quite happy for AL teams to be as confused by the schedule as possible and get involved in loads of extra innings games. It's good preparation for the WS.

---

I love it when someone shares my prejudices. The downside I fear is that the quality of play will drop off. To jump sports I've noticed the same in football now that they have introduced the Thursday night games all throughout the season.
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Fuck.
Hell.
Shit.

I've never been in a more disappointed bar or city in my life.

Two men out, two strikes, up by two, ninth inning, and you still lose by two runs?

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Amazing, uplifting, heartbreaking, depending on who you supported. The most unlikely comeback, even in the context of this stunning postseason. Can imagine the scene in that bar, Ariston. Just a total stunner.

In the other game, in that 8th inning bases loaded situation, I did wonder if that was going to turn around as well. But CC showed his mettle in the clutch. Did he ever!

I have absolutely no idea how the CS's will turn out. If this edge-of-the-seat unlikely stuff continues, we'll all be nervous wrecks at the end!

[ 13. October 2012, 09:19: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I am happy that my father-in-law's team, the Cardinals and my tertiary favourite team, the Giants, came through. Last time I saw them play in person, my daughter was v. small and the game was played at Candlestick! It was exciting to see our seats on TV while watching an NFL game months later.


 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I can't quite believe that St. Louis is doing it again. Just like last year, they Just...Won't...Quit. They keep bouncing back when, by all rights, they should be gone. In the regular season, they weren't good enough to win their own division, but once they get into the playoffs they are the 800-pound gorilla.

A heart wrenching loss for Washington. And they have to live with it until next year.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
How screwed up is the schedule this year? The winner of the Orioles-Yankees game this evening will have to play Detroit tomorrow (no rest for the weary). And I think (but do not know for certain) that whoever wins gets to be the home team tomorrow--so Detroit won't know until after tonight's game whether they are headed to NY or Baltimore. I wonder if they already have half the team checked into a NY hotel and the other half checked into a Baltimore hotel. Or maybe they split the difference and are all camped out in Philly?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amazing Grace:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
How screwed up is the schedule this year? The winner of the Orioles-Yankees game this evening will have to play Detroit tomorrow (no rest for the weary). And I think (but do not know for certain) that whoever wins gets to be the home team tomorrow--so Detroit won't know until after tonight's game whether they are headed to NY or Baltimore. I wonder if they already have half the team checked into a NY hotel and the other half checked into a Baltimore hotel. Or maybe they split the difference and are all camped out in Philly?

---

The Giants stayed in Cleveland until they knew where they were going to be playing next.

Nats win would have meant Washington
Cards win would have meant San Francisco.

Mind you, Baltimore and NYC aren't all that far away from each other.

---

Ooops, I meant Cincinnati, not Cleveland. I saw a picture of the team watching the game on their plane.
 

---

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
And since I'm being Posty McPostalot, I will say that I was very sad indeed that Oakland didn't win its game five, but I am still quite A-mAzed at the season. It's the kind of thing that makes me Believe in Baseball.

To you Nats and Orioles fans ... I feel your pain, buddy. Hugs offered if you want them.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
ALCS game 1

The Gameday picture paints a thousand words. Like a four run deficit recovery by the Yankees - in the 9th of course. Wouldn't be this post season if it wasn't the 9th.

And of course the Yankees were then destined to win. obviously. Only they didn't. Worse, Jeter is out for the series and season.

So the Tigers must be destined for the WS? Who knows? Its a topsy-turvey postseason world. Anything can happen - and probably will. A-Rod will come back as a pinch hitter and hit a Grand Slam - or something ...
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I never like to see any player go down with a serious injury. I hope Jeter can recover in time for next year.

But the number of 9th inning dramatics in this post-season is getting ridiculous. When the Yankees tied the game in the 9th, I believe my official first comment was "Oh, you've got to be @@#%$@#@!! kidding me." And then I admired what an incredible post-season Raul Ibanez has been having.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
NLCS Game 1, Hedgehog. Interesting pitching duel between Bumgarner (who has gone off the boil recently) and Lynn, last seen being belted out of the park by Jason Werth.

Think it might be down to the bats tonight!
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
We've touched on the 9th inning heroics this post-season. Not all of those constitute "walk-off" heroics, of course. However, courtesy of the good folks at Baseball-Reference, HERE is a list of all 116 post-season game-ending "walk-off" hits since 1910 (through 2011). Of course, there are far more post-season games in recent times than there were back in 1910. However, the record for most such hits in the post-season appears to be 6, accomplished twice (in 2003 and 2004).

So far this year, there have been 4:

OAK-DET, Game 2 (Oct. 7)
DET-OAK, Game 4 (Oct. 10)
BAL-NY, Game 3 (Oct. 10)
ST.L-WAS, Game 4 (Oct. 11).

And we still have still have a lot of games to go! It could be a record setting year!
 

---

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
I am a bear of very tiny brain but didn't someone else's closer melt down in a big game recently?

I had to think "Why couldn't he do it when the A's were playing them?!!"

(Um, yeah, I've transferred my AL loyalties to the Tigers for the duration. My reaction was similar to Hedgehog's.)
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
As Charlie Brown (a Giants fan) would have said, "AAUUGGHH!"
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Another bad start by a Giants pitcher, I'm afraid. Game 2 pitching looks knife edged as well. Has Carpenter really overcome his injuries? Has Vogelsong overcome his slump? Hard one to call.

Seems strange to think the Giants could lose out on starting pitching quality, but that looks to be a real risk.

In the other game, the Yankees got a raw deal. A really bad call at a critical time spoiled the game. Pity. there was some really good pitching in that one.

And the Yankees now have the "joy" of Verlander in Game 3. It's really not looking good for them.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
... and worth a triple post. The Yankees seem to have had their own Ibanez-shaped miracle as well. Pinch hitter ties, then wins, both times with HRs. Has that ever happened before in the post season?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
If the Yanks extend it, it won't be because of CC. He has just been lifted in the 4th and the Tigers are leading 6-0.

Of course, as the Washington Nationals can attest, the mere fact that you have a 6-0 lead does not mean that you have won the game. If this post-season has taught us anything, it is that you have not won anything until you get (at least) 27 outs. Detroit still has to get 15 more outs before it can pop the champagne.

---

One week later, and the city's still in mourning.

Still, I'm hopeful (though, given my track record in teams I rooted for this posteason, that's probably a bad thing to say); with any luck, the Yankees will be shut down for good.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Yes. C C did not have a good outing, which surprised me.

The Yankees' bats did wake up at the top of the 6th. But A-Rod was just unable to make anything of a recovery opportunity, leaving two runners on base after a run was scored.

I think you could bet the house on Detroit now. Even in this post season.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Detroit only needs three outs more!
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The house is safe.

Detroit have looked very, very good in this series. But have you ever seen the Yankees look worse? That was a demoralised team tonight.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and .... Lincecum makes a bad start.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Ouch! That 5th inning hurt.

Cards up 4-1, Lincecum gone after 4.2

Not looking good for the Giants in this key game. Apart from Pence's home run, not much from the bats.
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I watched the 4th-6th innings on the elliptical at the gym. Couldn't bring myself to turn it on when I got home. To see the Giants' bullpen collapse like that was excruciating...and Posey missing a really good throw from the cutoff man....

On the plus side, the Yanks got their clocks cleaned again.

[ 19. October 2012, 04:01: Message edited by: Timothy the Obscure ]
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
missed games but just got the word that the yanks had their asses handed to them! WOOT!

So now, I'm a Tigers girl for the rest of 2012. My two teams: The Red Sox and anyone who kicks Yankee ass.
 

---

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
That was a bad loss. Cards hold all the Cards now. Like Detroit, they have momentum and form, Giants have uncertain quality from their starting pitchers and not too much from the bats. Both factors have been confidence sapping.

But it's not over ..... Does this post season have another unexpected rally in it? We'll see.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I might be (very) new to baseball but even I know that every game and series starts 0-0.

More generally it does look like one streaky inning can win a game, hence seven-game series for championships. Sensible.
 

---

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Prester John:

---

I agree.


 

---

Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
And tonight:



The NLCS is back to San Francisco, baby!
 

---

Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 
Let's see if they can do that two more times.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Well, that was a nice surprise! In the early innings, it looked like just a matter of time before the Cards put some runs on the board. But Zito proved resilient, particularly in the second - and then the game turned with help from that error. Maybe the vital matter of momentum as well.

Which goes to show you never can tell. Game 6; Ryan Vogelsong, your time has come. And if it does go to Game 7, then it's as even-money as Game 3 was.

I suppose the odds still favour the Cards, but two good games at home are within the Giants' reach.

Time for Journey again, Amazing Grace!

[ 20. October 2012, 05:07: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
The more I see of Scutaro on defense, the more impressed I am. That diving pickup and throw to first in the fifth was one of the prettiest plays I've ever seen. And another nice on a couple of innings later. Zito was terrific, and the offense woke up, but I think fielding was what really won this one. Or at least kept it from being torture.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
The more I see of Scutaro on defense, the more impressed I am. That diving pickup and throw to first in the fifth was one of the prettiest plays I've ever seen. And another nice on a couple of innings later. Zito was terrific, and the offense woke up, but I think fielding was what really won this one. Or at least kept it from being torture.

---

Most results in sport turn on errors and while pitchers may play a blinder or make mistakes it's damned difficult to see them in live action (rather like golf, except in extreme cases). The standard expected of Baseball's infielders is like that of cricketers fielding in 'the ring', between 20 and 30 yards from the batsmen (though they don't have gloves!).

This game isn't about homers and shut-outs. They are the icing on the cake. A grubby base hit with a man on third and d-all fielding errors are so much more valuable.

There. Give me twenty years and I might have a grip on this game. Now to track down a few more Pirates fans in the UK!

[ 20. October 2012, 11:14: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Indeed. I watch baseball for the fielding. All home runs look alike, as do all strikeouts (well, some are swinging and some are called). But watching Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker turn a double play is something I'll never forget. Or watching Willie Mays catch a fly ball over his shoulder and turn to throw a strike to the catcher to get the runner trying to score. So many games turn on one fumbled grounder, or one throw that wasn't quite as quick as it could have been...
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
The whole fielding dimension is for me one of the great attractions of baseball. You can do things with the glove that you can't with bare-handed fielding and catching (cricket), the fielders' choices over where to throw and what type of throw play an important role, there is the significance of the bases gained, and the unique features brought about by the possibilities of double and triple plays. All of these add a real spice to the fun of watching the game.

There have been some really significant fielding plays in this postseason (both good and bad). Scutaro's fluent play was a very good example. (My favourite, so far, is Pagan's catch in Game 5 against the Reds, at a vital time.)
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... looking very promising - unless you're a Cards fan. 5-0 to Giants at end of 3rd.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Promise kept! Giants win easily in Game 6!
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I feel so much better now. The one thing you can't accuse the Giants of is choking.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
So we are now at the decisive Game 7. This is the sort of game where one person can be a hero or a goat. Because ITTWACW we will avoid predicting a goat, but does anybody have any guesses on who will turn out to be the hero? The starting pitchers? Or will this game turn out to be a mutual slugfest?

I think it will be a close, tight game. No guess on who will win because (as I said before) I am tired of being wrong. As it is, I am probably going to be wrong about the "close, tight game"...
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I predict a last inning turnaround, bringing about a 4-3 win. Not last play, could be top or bottom, but last inning. On the basis that I know least about the game of everybody on the thread, that seems to have a fair chance of being right.

Haven't a clue which side will win though.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hedgehog:
So we are now at the decisive Game 7. This is the sort of game where one person can be a hero or a goat. Because ITTWACW we will avoid predicting a goat, but does anybody have any guesses on who will turn out to be the hero? The starting pitchers? Or will this game turn out to be a mutual slugfest?

I think it will be a close, tight game. No guess on who will win because (as I said before) I am tired of being wrong. As it is, I am probably going to be wrong about the "close, tight game"...

---

I think it will turn on who pitches better; Lohse on Cain. That looks to be a close call. If that duel is a draw, there is nothing to choose between two excellent bullpens.

I'll stick my neck out and go for the Giants, because that's the result I want. My head tells me "probably a close one". Picking up on Sioni's earlier observations re fielding, it could all turn on a fielding brilliance or a fielding error.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
And whoever wins will be at home for Game 1 and Game 2.

And who comes onto the mound for Detroit in Game 1? Only Justin Verlander ...

(I hope it is the Giants in the WS; especially for Scutaro and Vogelsong. Both in their different ways "Cinderella" players.

Vogelsong's pitching last night, in another clutch game, was outstanding; better than Zito's in Game 5 and Zito was very good.)

[ 22. October 2012, 22:44: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Never could forecast (grump, grump). Not close at all at the bottom of the 5th!
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Think I'll just run this up the audio flagpole just to see if anyone salutes it.

(again!!)

[ 23. October 2012, 03:51: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Not bad... try this one... Gone like a cool breeze...

Or Singing in the Rain....
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Ho hum, there's a fine start as a baseball pundit. The only way is up from here.
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
It was pretty much over in the third. Cain, going into the game, was 37-1 when the Giants scored 3 or more runs. Now he's 38-1.

Every one was making a big deal about how the Giants have never won a game 7 in a series before, and the Cards have won more than anybody. But those were different teams--these Giants always play best under pressure.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
This night shift stuff is probably not the wisest thing for an elderly English gentleman, but ...

this has been very special!

I am pretty sure that no postseason team has ever won six straight elimination games. I never expected it, not sure anyone else did - with the possible exception of the mad-eyed Hunter Pence. Who also found a way to hit the same ball three times while broken-batting in two RBIs. The improbabilities just kept on keeping on ..

Baseball is a strange, wonderful, endlessly fascinating game .. I can sleep later!
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Nice to see my record of predictions remains intact. Just as I said, it was a nice, close pitcher's duel...until about, oh, the bottom of the 1st.

Not that we needed further proof, but it does go to show just how difficult it is for any team to repeat as World Series champion. The last repeat champ was the Yankees back in 2000 (they also won in 1998 and 1999).

I heard that the Kansas City Royals also managed to win 6 straight elimination games in a single post-season. I think it was back in 1985. Or 1983. Something like that. Still, it is pretty darn rare.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I just checked. 1985. In the ALCS, Toronto took a 3 games to 1 lead against KC, but KC then won three straight. Then, in the World Series, against St. Louis (ironically), St. Louis took a 3 games to 1 lead, and KC then won the next three games to win the World Series. Including the last game being a blow-out, with KC winning 11-0 over St. Louis.

And, just for clarity, we are talking about winning "elimination games" in a single post-season. If you consider multiple years, then between last year and this, St. Louis had actually won 6 straight games when it was facing elimination (until last night).
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Might have guessed. I wasn't thinking about including the WS as well. Just a happy and biased fan really.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Game 1WS; I'll be delighted if the Giants win, but expect Detroit to win and Verlander continue his outstanding form.

Overall series. A lot depends on whether the Giants can scrap hard enough, have lots of long at-bats against Detriot's outstanding starting pitchers. Detroit's only real weakness, AFAICS, is its bullpen. So the Giants have got to get them out of the bullpen on to the mound, then belt them around! Nice simple strategy.

I reckon the odds favour Detroit to win in 5 or 6; but the Giants have been making the odds look silly really. So I'm just going to enjoy this. Hope it's a memorable World Series; the postseason has been great so far and a real rousing finale would be a fitting ending.
 

---

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
It is a fact that, since the League Championship Series (LCS) switched to a best-of-7 format in 1985 (or thereabouts) there have been three occasions when, in the World Series, one team swept their LCS 4-0, while the other team had to play the full 7 (4-3). In all three cases, the team that had to play 7 games not only won the World Series, but EASILY won the World Series in 5 games or less.

Of course, past results are no guarantee of future returns, but the team that sweeps the LCS does have a lot of days of just sitting around and getting stale, while the team that played all 7 games is sharp. Based on this, in the early run at least, I think SF has the advantage.
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
So the key question--can the Giants hit Verlander?--has been answered. I revise my prediction from Tigers in 7 to Giants in 6. The Giants have a better bullpen, are stronger defensively, and (in spite of the general assumption about the Detroit offense, which is mostly based on Cabrera) had more hits and more runs than the Tigers in the regular season.
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I'm delighted!

Game2: the rust argument might apply to Bumgarner as well. And he's got something to prove.

I'll be delighted if he does. Very happy to continue to be delighted.
 

---

Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I'm delighted!

---

Thought you might be. If you'd swapped the starting pitchers' lines around, it would have been more or less as expected. As it is...

Hell of a start for Sandoval to smash a HR off an 0-2 pitch. I can only assume he'd practically given up on the at-bat and just decided to guess on a fastball, because he had to be swinging very early to catch up to it. That seemed to set the tone for the whole game.

I heard a stat that Verlander had never before had a HR taken off an 0-2 pitch. Haven't been able to verify that, but it sounds vaguely plausible.
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
So Barnabas, I assume you're delighted, like me. I'm tempted to revise my prediction to SF in 5, but I really want them to win at home this time.

I do think this is the best Giants team I've ever seen (and I've been following them long enough to compare them with the early sixties and the late eighties). They don't have the superstars like Mays, McCovey, Marichal, Clark, and Bonds (though they have guys who may eventually be at that level), but they are balanced in a way those teams weren't--depth in pitching was never a Giant thing, and the 2010 team was definitely weak on offense. These guys do it all (most of the time).
 

---

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Just woke up! Prudence took over and I recorded Game 2. Thought I'd stay away from news sources, watch it as live. But MLB website had a magnetic drawing power.

So I'm delighted!

From the wrap up, this looks to have been a great pitching duel, and the Giants managed to manufacture the win. I'm thinking great call by the Giants' coaching team to trust that Bumgarner was sorted. Form is temporary, class is permanent, and he's a classy pitcher. The large strike zone probably helped his return to form

Baseball is a strange game. The close calls, the little chance factors and the marginal calls which turn games, all seem to have gone the Giants' way so far in the series. As well as the strike zone, Posey's tag at home base seems to have been another one of those.

Things can turn the other way. On the face of it, Vogelsong, Cain and Zito look to have a good chance of getting two wins from three in Detroit, given current form. At any rate, it would be a major surprise if they didn't get at least one.

But that's what this postseason has been about! Major surprises. As things stand now, I'd much rather be delighted than surprised!
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
As it is going to be about 30 hours before we get the next World Series game, here is some Random Baseball Trivia to pass the time:

Urban Clarence "Red" Faber was a pitcher who spent his entire professional career (1914 to 1933) with the Chicago White Sox. Which means that he was NOT one of the players implicated in the 1919 Black Sox Scandal. But that is not the trivia point. This is:

Faber had been pitching in the minor leagues. The White Sox called him up to the majors to join them while they went on an exhibition "world tour" with the (then) New York Giants. In Hong Kong, the Giants realized that they were short a pitcher and borrowed Faber for the game. Faber won. And that means that Red Faber's first victory with a major league club was against his own team! As the tour continued, he did it three more times.

Not surprisingly, after the tour ended, the Giants tried to buy his contract from the White Sox but they held on to him.

Red Faber also has one more claim to history. When he started pitching in 1914, the spitball was still a legal pitch, and he threw a good one. The pitch was made illegal in 1920, but those pitchers (such as Faber) who had already made it part of their arsenal were permitted to continue using it ("grandfathered in"). As I stated, his career lasted until 1933--which made Red Faber the last man to legally throw a spitball in the American League.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Strange to think that a select few were given dispensation to continue what was a form of ball-tampering. A bit like allowing corking of bats to a selected few, for example, just because they've built a career on the advantage they give. That was never going to happen - I don't think, anyway.

Spitballs were, potentially at least, quite dangerous IIRC. Not only might they do odd things in the air, the pitchers used to use the spit (tobacco juice impregnated) to change the colour, make them more difficult to see.

Interesting comment on a bygone era, Hedgehog. Have you any more odd bits of history up your sleeve? (While we're waiting that is?)

(I did enjoy the Game 2 rerun. Fister pitched very well and showed great courage to boot. A most unlucky loser. The improbable Posey tag, and the bunt that stayed, improbably, fair, both showed how much baseball is a game of inches and tenths of seconds.)

[ 26. October 2012, 19:03: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Spitballs were, potentially at least, quite dangerous IIRC. Not only might they do odd things in the air, the pitchers used to use the spit (tobacco juice impregnated) to change the colour, make them more difficult to see.

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Curious that you should mention that, as that links into another event in 1920.

I am currently reading a book entitled Under Pallor Under Shadow that studies the 1920 AL season. It truly was a pivotal year in baseball. While the Black Sox game fixing events happened in the 1919 World Series, the actual investigation of the scandal did not break until 1920.

But also in 1920 came the Ray Chapman incident. He played for Cleveland. In August, Cleveland was playing the Yankees. Yankeees pitcher Carl Mays through a pitch that hit Chapman in the head. Chapman was taken to the hospital and died the next day--the only major league player to die from a thrown ball.

Witnesses agree that Chapman never made any move to avoid the pitch. It appears that he quite literally never saw it coming--probably because the ball was so dirty and the light so bad. Prior to then, balls were used in the game--no matter how dirty they got--pretty much until they were hit into the stands. After the Chapman incident, the order came down that the umpire was to throw away any dirty ball and keep a clean ball in play so that the batters could see it better.

I am not sure if the prohibition on the spitball also arose directly from the Chapman incident or was coincidental.

However, this highlights another point. 1919 is considered the last year of the "Dead Ball Era." Offense skyrocketed starting in 1920. While there is much argument over whether the ball itself was juiced, other changes such as banning the spitball and keeping a clean white ball in play undoubtedly helped the batters.

How much help was this? Well, in 1918, Babe Ruth hit only 11 home runs--and that led the AL. In 1919, he set the major league record for home runs in one season by hitting 29.

In 1920, he hit 54 homers.

Just to further get one's head around this seismic change, Babe Ruth's first home run in 1920 was the 50th homer of his career--and then he went on to hit 53 more just in that one season. THAT's how much the rule changes helped the batter.

Of course, there was another factor at play here. Up through 1919, Ruth played for Boston. 1920 was his first year with the Yankees. Thus, along with the new rules, he was also now playing in a stadium that better suited his hitting style.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
(Thinks. I must visit the Hall of Fame before I die ..)

Thanks for the further fascinating history, Hedgehog.

Tonight's game; no way I can pull another nightshift, we're off early tomorrow for a visit to son, daughter-in-law, grandchildren in Essex.

So it goes on "record". No forecast from me for this one. I'm hoping to be delighted ..
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
... and am. From the wrap-up, lights out defence and pitching, particularly when in trouble. Great team effort. Three is just a number, but it's a nice number. Off on travels.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
That last inning, man.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I worked through the game but it went my way: whom did the gearheads from Motor City think they wer playing that would give them a ghost of a chance with the mighty California team anyway?!
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
I wish I could pay more attention to tonight's game, but I have this hurricane bearing down on my living room...
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
Just back and caught up with the news, Hedgehog. Stay safe, get safe, Shipmate. All the very best ..



[ 28. October 2012, 18:30: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Wow. That was about the most intense game I've seen in... a while. That last pitch from Romo... if you looked closely, he shook off the first sign, where presumably Posey called for the slider (Romo's best pitch). He decided to give Cabrera a fastball, and he gave him an absolutely perfect one on the inside corner (which Cabrera could have taken out of the park if he'd been on top of it, but he was expecting the slider and though it would break inside) and caught him flat-footed.

The under-reported part of the whole series is the brilliance of the Giants' defensive play (I think I have admitted I'm a defense geek). There were at least half a dozen moments when the slightest lapse could have changed the course of the series (Crawford's bare-handed play in this game being only the most recent). They never blew it.

The only thing missing is that it's the Tigers instead of the Yankees (it being the 50th anniversary of 1962, which will live in infamy...)
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Yankees fan checking in. (Hey! Put down those cabbages and brickbats!). I've been rooting for the Giants in this Series, so I'm pleased. Choice of team based on a convoluted set of factors, and not mere petty revenge to root against the team that swept my team. Weird for Detroit to sweep the Yankees so convincingly, and then get roundly swept in turn.
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 
Barnabas62, deep breaths now: in......out.......in......out.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
I did stay up for that final game and it was truly intense. A great, competitive, game. Thought exactly the same as Timothy about that last pitch. It looked as though Romo rolled the dice with that fastball and got it exactly right. Haven't heard/read what Romo has had to say about it yet.

I'm delighted and somewhat worn out! A great team performance in the WS. As a Giants fan, I'm delighted by the sweep, as a baseball fan, a more competitive series (with up to three but no more Tigers' wins) might have been a more fitting end to a marvellous postseason.

But I'm not complaining. With a big grin on my face, I'm just going to lie down for a little bit ...

continuing for Hedgehog and others in the path of the storm. Kind of puts the game into perspective.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
Here's the skinny on that last pitch: NYT
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
continuing for Hedgehog and others in the path of the storm. Kind of puts the game into perspective.

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Thank you. I am home safe. This old house weathered the storm, like it has so many others since before I was born.
 

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Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :
 
That's very good news, Hedgehog. Thanks for letting us know.

A personal "thanks and appreciation" also for your (always) first class posts on these threads. Here's to the next.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I got shut out of the tie-breaking run after recording it for fewer hours than it took to play, but I did read a story with photos in the LA Times the next day...


 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Well, I missed the whole thing due to being stuck in traffic, so don't feel too bad, Sir K.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
A little tardy here, as I didn't feel much like talking about baseball last night.

Yep, all the handwringing about how Detroit blew it is looking the wrong way (though, as a westerner well aware of the media bias towards Eastern and Midwestern teams, not surprising). They were just old-school flat-out outplayed by the Giants in all respects: pitching, hitting, and deeee-fense.

I'm glad that Timothy has pointed out the quality of the defense. It's something that the Giants have apparently drilled on a lot and there were certain key plays where it really showed - some of the double plays and the highlights-reel worthy "Prince Fielder gets thrown out at home" play had every man moving where he needed to be. Major props to my candidate for NL MVP, Buster Posey, for figuring out a way to do that last one without risking a very large man sliding into his recovering-from-injury body. (Did y'all hold your breath when you saw that? Holy crap.)

They seemed to be fairly modest about it. When complimented on the quality of the Fielder play by a reporter, one player (not remembering who at the moment) apparently got a "buh?" look and said something like "Aww, we practice that stuff in spring training."

Scutaro was really clutch on both sides (offense and defense **). His NLCS MVP was well earned and I am sure that he was a big candidate for the Series MVP. What a huge trade deadline pickup for the Giants he was!

** I have a personal term for when a fielder shows extra moxie and hustle and gets one of those "extra effort" catches or plays - "that was a major league play". I thought that a lot seeing a number of plays.

One huge edge that the Giants appear to have is that their management team are freaking geniuses. If Bruce Bochy doesn't get elected to the HoF when he's eligible, there is no justice in this sport. I also wouldn't be surprised to see some of his staff getting head jobs and doing well in them at some time in the future. The clubhouse culture is definitely "we're all in there just trying to get this done" and management has had a large hand in building that. As a specific example of the Mad Management Skillz, I'll point to "Tim Lincecum gets talked into a long relief role", which is quite astonishing given Tim's recent credentials - both the Cy Youngs and the meltdowns. Credit is certainly due to Timmy for being a mature professional about it, but I'm quite sure that Bochy had built the climate of trust long before. Whatever the staff did to adjust MadBum's mechanics and Zito's and Lincecum's brains was nothing short of miraculous considering how the wheels were really coming off of the pitching bus only a short time before.

My playoff superstition was "I can't listen to the game" (or "watch" it on my phone). It was tough - I ended up avoiding Facebook as well. I also listened to a really bad NFL game on my way home one evening thinking "why am I doing this?".

And now there won't be any baseball for a while, which makes me extra sad.
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Amazing Grace:

quote:

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My playoff superstition was "I can't listen to the game" (or "watch" it on my phone). It was tough - I ended up avoiding Facebook as well. I also listened to a really bad NFL game on my way home one evening thinking "why am I doing this?".

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You need a new superstition. Like wear a pair of orange undies on game days and enjoy the play-offs.
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
I was drinking Anchor Steam and wearing green (for the A's) but it didn't help!

(orange, not on my body, tyvm, except as cat hair from the three orange and black kitties)
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Well, I missed the whole thing due to being stuck in traffic, so don't feel too bad, Sir K.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
And now there won't be any baseball for a while, which makes me extra sad.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
The Australian Baseball League will be getting its season under way in about 7 hours! Perth vs. Adelaide. Woo hoo!

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Hmmm... And there I was about to close the thread down for the winter.
 

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Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :
 
Sitting in a damp Southern England in November with no energy and a quiet evening ahead, I find myself longing for the boys of summer. After such a dreadful season for the Red Sox, I thought I'd probably not even start thinking about the game until spring-training was well underway. I realise I've got it bad.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I'm trying to pick a team in ABL. I have a cousin living in Adelaide, so that was my first thought, but the Adelaide Bite is an unfortunate name for a last-place team.
 

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Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :
 
Personally, I decided to cheer on the Sydney Blue Sox. I get the sense that Perth is the NY Yankees of the ABL, so I won't cheer for them. And as you say, the Bite is...unfortunate.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I can't quite get away from the image of a stadium full of fans chanting "Bite! Bite! Bite!"
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
And Posey gets MVP (no surprise). I was really delighted that Dickey got the Cy Young, though--the thing I love about baseball is that it has so many great stories.
 

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Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
And Posey gets MVP (no surprise). I was really delighted that Dickey got the Cy Young, though--the thing I love about baseball is that it has so many great stories.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I get the sense that Perth is the NY Yankees of the ABL, so I won't cheer for them.

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quote:

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The season is almost halfway through (the All Star game is on Sunday), but I have now decided to start a thread about the Australian Baseball League (ABL).

Why? Perfectly good question. The answer is curiosity.

Now, a few of us on the old 2012 Baseball Thread expressed an interest in following the ABL, and this will give us a thread on which to do it.

But, more importantly, I am hoping that, by putting "Australia" in the title, I might lure a few Australia-based Shipmates to post here. I am curious how well-known the ABL is there. I was accessing the websites of some Australian newspapers over the weekend and noticed that baseball...was pretty much not mentioned at all. I knew it wasn't going to supplant rugby, cricket or soccer/football, but I wasn't expecting it to be so completely ignored. The Sydney Morning Herald, for example, showed no sign that it knew there was a team based in Sydney.

So, Australian Shipmates: Did you know you have a baseball league? If so, have you ever been tempted to go to a game? On Saturday, I was able to watch a streaming video of the early innings of the Canberra-Sydney game and I can assure you that good seats are still available!

But back on topic: Coming up to the mid-point of the season, Perth is still leading by 1.5 games over Canberra (who put a hurting on my Sydney Blue Sox this weekend ). Trailing the herd is Melbourne, which has proven to be even more inept than the Adelaide Bite. Hard as that is to be believed.

This weekend (Thursday to Saturday, to be precise: Sunday is reserved for the All-Star Game)
Sydney has another big 4-game series against Perth, this time in Perth. I think Sydney has to shoot for winning 3 of 4 to stay in the hunt, but that is going to be a big task.

So, Timothy the Obscure and RuthW, are you two still following your teams?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
In a brief detour back to US baseball, the Mets have traded Dickey to Toronto. Death wish?

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Yes. I think that move can fairly be read as the Mets' declaration that they are not in the running for 2013. "It's a rebuilding season!"

However, give them applause for the way that they took their best pitcher and moved him to Toronto--to cause the Yankees problems! A lovely little dig!
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
omg, ariston's a total stud

<small>[ 13. February 2013, 06:24: Message buggered about with by: Ariston ]</small>

[ 13. February 2013, 07:12: Message edited by: Ariston ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Thanks for reminding me to close this thread. If anybody wants another one for 2013, please have at it.

iF
Circus host
 

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