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Originally posted by Pants:
Someone I know has a small person who loves pickled onions and olives!!

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Originally posted by Lothlorien:
My sons were all good eaters of vegetables but for a snack perhaps? Some frozen peas in a bowl, straight from the freezer. Regarded almost as lollies.

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Second this, veg straight from the freezer was a favourite of my nephew and niece until they were well out of their toddlerhood (I should check with my sister whether she still has to get the bags of frozen veg out when they are not around or they eat it before it gets cooked). Peas, beans and I think carrots in their case, maybe more.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
Frozen peas in a bowl absolutely loved by my two. (As are still frozen fish fingers -- I think of them as convenience sushi ) But at one year old, watch very carefully as they are a choking hazard.

Mini bread sticks are wonderful inventions. Rice cake and peanut butter. Bread and pesto (small children often like much stronger flavours than we give them credit for). In extremis a small pot of breakfast cereal. In fact, I would lay in a stack of small pots, because almost any food stuff served in a small pot is attractive to a toddler.

Oh, and I have heard of someone keeping bananas in the freezer to give as lollies. Never tried it though.

[ 11. January 2012, 15:35: Message edited by: Niminypiminy ]
 

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Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :
 
The famous baby (who is nearly 14 months, and should thus possibly now be referred to as the famous toddler) likes cheese very much as a snack - but none of this namby-pamby mild cheddar nonsense that the baby books recommend. He likes extra mature cheddar, cave-aged gruyere and emmental, pecorino, and Ossau-Iraty. He also likes wholemeal toast with butter and/or jam, and fruit toast with butter.

We don't manage veg as snacks often, but others have success with sticks of cucumber, pepper etc.

Best wishes,

Rachel.
 

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Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
We are deep in the trenches of the first week of potty training. On the bright side, young Master Alto (should I say Counter-tenor?) is doing really well. He's not showing any reluctance at all about using the toilet and he's had very few accidents- he can tell when he needs to go, and gets one of us right away to take him to the bathroom. Unfortunately he can't yet get the pee muscles to relax when he wants them to. So we spend two hours or so going to the bathroom, sitting for a few minutes, giving up, and then going back two minutes later to try again because of course he still has to go. Eventually he succeeds in peeing (mostly because his bladder can't hold any more) and we have an hour or two of peace before the cycle starts again.

I know this is perfectly normal, and it's amazing that he's doing as well as he is, but wow, it's tiring!
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
I'm despairing at the moment. Op 1 can only speak to me in aggressively rude or deeply patronising tones. I don't know how it's come to this - rudeness has never gained her anything - but it's been more and more common for a long time. She's 10, so I'm aware that there may be hormonal things going on, but am just fed up with being treated like dirt. The non-verbal communication isn't much better - the shrugs, sighs, and rolled eyes all used to imply that she's so badly mistreated when I ask her to put her clean clothes away...

And I, of course, end up eventually losing my temper and shouting, so she's won. Again. :bigcry:

Any advice?
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
I can only suggest a bit of strategic deafness. If she comes and asks for something in a rude or patronising way, reply 'I beg your pardon?'. If it's repeated, tell her firmly that you don't respond to requests unless politely made 'in a nice voice'. If she's rude when answering a question you initiate, ask again, with the same warning.

She will no doubt take a while to accept that this is a rule, and will persist in being rude to try and force you out of it. However, if you try and pick your battles carefully, you can find a time when she is inconvenienced by your failure to respond more than you are, and once she has given way a few times, she'll probably come round. If she is nice and cheerful and answers well, praise her for it, as you all want to get back on good terms as soon as possible!

You also need to get your partner on the case if possible. With my boys, ShadoK would have reprimanded them for being rude to me if he overheard them (and you should be able to stage-manage that) and reinforce the rule himself. Actually, they weren't often rude to me, more to him - some kind of alpha male thing, possibly. I used to make it clear that to be on good terms with me they needed to respect their father.

As my boys got older, I did use the 'being on good terms' idea quite a lot. They needed to be on good terms with me if they wanted me to run around after them, washing their clothes, remembering to buy things needed for clubs or school etc. A couple of episodes where I 'withdrew goodwill' was enough to persuade them that they should keep me on side! It's really boring to have to wash your own clothes and remember your own diary. She may be a little young for that yet, but again, you can pick your time. If she asks in rude way for something special for a party or something, refuse to do it on the grounds that she is rude. Tell her you only go that extra mile for politeness. The message will sink in.
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
We follow Moth's system in our family and it's working so far. Daughter is not always able to control her temper well enough to comply with The Rule, but does have the grace to come and apologise after she's calmed down.

If she is in a throwing-things-about sort of temper we also tell her 'If it breaks, we won't be buying another one'. This is usually enough to make her pause for reflection...
 

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Posted by Emma Louise (# 3571) on :
 
Food for a toddler - what other's have said mainly -

bread sticks, rice cakes (adult ones broken up are much cheaper than special "baby" ones and healthier if they don't have flavouring too. Just get a no salt one, toast fingers, oatcakes, crackers. Garlic bread is a favourite here.

Veg - almost anything that can be cut up and put in a pot/ on a plate. A mixture of colours can make it more interesting - chopped tomotoes and cucumber is still a favourite here, but peppers, celery, carrot sticks, snap peas, any raw veg. Frozen peas a favourite here too but not sure about age to start those due to choking.

Fruit wise - any cut up fruit, grapes, apples, bananas, kiwis, etc etc

Teacup also loved olives, pickled onions, stronger cheese.

There is a lot of variety of things you can feed a small person really. Just think about what you eat or mini versions of meals.


We are struggling with getting sleep here. I've been very baby-led with baby1 which worked fab but baby 2 doesn't seem to want to sleep more than about 45minutes at a time at night. Any ideas?!
 

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Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :
 
Thanks, Moth & Jane R. She and I reached rock bottom last night, which left us both feeling terrible, but she clearly started reflecting on things once she was in bed - came and apologised before going to sleep, and was much better this morning. Mr B is very good at maintaining the importance of courtesy towards me - as indeed I try to be for him! I'm hoping that we're going to get enough 'nice' behaviour to have a chance to praise it (although in the past both Opuses have seemed to assume that once they're praised for good behaviour it means that's enough of it, and almost immediately resume horribleness! )

Thanks for the listening ear and wisdom though - I needed to vent some frustration, and it's good to have reassurance that I'm not entirely alone in this... I will continue to be deaf as necessary and hope that the message eventually gets through.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
God-parenting question.

My children are 17 and 15. My God-daughter is 9.

G-d's mother is a single parent and there's no real wider family. G-d's mother has several health issues, but none that are likely to prove fatal. However, G-d has witnessed her mother being ambulanced away on three occasions (asthma attacks), the most recent two weeks ago. Over the years G-d's mother and I have gone over the "what-if" issue several times, and I've consistently said that, while I couldn't promise anything, I would always do my best for G-d and would probably take her.

Last week G-d asked her mother what would happen if she died - would I adopt her? Instead of parroting my vague reply about "your God-mother loves you and will always do her best for you" her mother said "No. NEQ has her own children and they come first. If I die social services will take you into care."



I have no idea why she said that. I have always said "Probably, assuming my parents haven't become dependent on me in the meantime, assuming my husband / own kids haven't developed health issues, etc etc." Not only have I said this to G-d's mother, I've said it to G-d's mother in front of other people; I would "probably" take G-d in the event of her mother's death. I've said it within the last month!

Should I, for G-d's peace of mind, make a definite commitment? I feel that anything less than a firm commitment won't help; I don't think that "Well, my parents are quite old, and who knows what the future might bring; I might end up stretched looking after them, and wouldn't be able to look after you too, but then again, my parents might be fine, and I would, but there again..." will be enough to set G-d's mind at rest.

What do I say?
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by North East Quine:

Last week G-d asked her mother what would happen if she died - would I adopt her? Instead of parroting my vague reply about "your God-mother loves you and will always do her best for you" her mother said "No. NEQ has her own children and they come first. If I die social services will take you into care."

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quote:

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Should I, for G-d's peace of mind, make a definite commitment? I feel that anything less than a firm commitment won't help; I don't think that "Well, my parents are quite old, and who knows what the future might bring; I might end up stretched looking after them, and wouldn't be able to look after you too, but then again, my parents might be fine, and I would, but there again..." will be enough to set G-d's mind at rest.

What do I say?

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Because I am a suspicious and mean individual, I would be concerned that she had said this - in front of you - in the hope that you would then hastily make that commitment as a correction.

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I can't see any custody battle over g-d. I can't think of anyone who would want her full-time.

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That's sad, if true, but if the worst ever did happen one of her relatives might think it their duty to take care of her... just because they don't see her very often doesn't necessarily mean they don't care what happens to her.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
That might have come out wrong! She has several relatives who would care, but they don't know her personally, and I think they might just want to keep the status quo - birthday and Christmas cards and gifts.

TBH her mother's health issues might not be so bad if there were any supportive relatives around, but there just aren't.
 

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Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
It's so much more difficult that you weren't there for the conversation, as it may worry her more to bring the topic up again.

I'm sure her question was genuine, but there were probably others under the surface. The question she asked may have been a roundabout way of asking "If you keep being taken away in an ambulance, does that mean you might actually die?" , or, possibly, "Sometimes I think it would be fun to live with NEQ's family instead - does it annoy or worry you that I think that?" or "Do you think anyone really loves me apart from you?"

I remember going through a phase when every time we visited someone, I told my mum I wished I lived in their house instead. I think I was about 5 or 6. Eventually Mum got fed up and snapped, "I don't know why on earth you think they'd want you to live with them!" which shut me up, and hurt.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I didn't bring the topic up again, but I asked what she wanted to do when she grew up, and what sort of house she hoped to live in etc, and said I was looking forward to being invited round for dinner etc. She did try to work out how old she would be when I died, but we agreed I'd probably still be around when she's 29 and I'm 67, and as her plans only go up to age 29, that's fine! I was surprised at how detailed her plans are, she's obviously been thinking a few things through.

Her Mum and I were chatting about her wider family, and concluded that in the last two years she's met one adult cousin once, for an afternoon in 2010, so wider family just doesn't mean much to her.
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
Anyone have any tips to deal with the mercurial changes of mind a seven-year-old makes?

For example: about an hour ago I waved mr b and groover off to groover's first ever experience of a 'proper' football match, an FA cup tie. Groover has been beside himself with excitement about this for weeks, counting down the days, talking about how brilliant it will be, what he's going to do, etc. We've been careful not to ramp the excitement up too much as that can sometimes be counter-productive.

So, last night he goes to bed, excited that in the morning Daddy will wake him up and they will put all their unhealthy snacks in the car and go to the football. (Mr b works away a lot at the moment so this morning was the first time groover has seen him since the beginning of the week).

This morning: "I don't want to go to Everton." ... "Where are the tickets? I'm going to rip them up." ... "Daddy can go on his own."... "I won't eat breakfast/brush my teeth/get dressed." ... etc. Of course at this point, time is limited so it all gets very stressful, and despite our best efforts there is shouting and tears.

The football match is a big deal to him, and I can imagine that he almost intimidates himself with his own excitement and gets a bit nervous when the time actually arrives and it's real. But this is happening with everything - parties, days out, going to grandparents. Anything he's been particularly looking forward to.

He's like the opposite of that guy from the Vicar of Dibley: "Yes, yes, yes ,yes. No." It's driving us nuts.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I can remember doing something similar as a child, I think to pre-empt any possibility of disappointment. I've no suggestions, though!
 

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Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by North East Quine:
I can remember doing something similar as a child, I think to pre-empt any possibility of disappointment. I've no suggestions, though!

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I was thinking of much the same sort of thing. Better not to happen than be disappointed may be the thought running through the mind.

Would shortening the lead time help do you think? Cut down the length of expectation. Make it a good deal shorter.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
That works pretty well for my worrywart son. If we tell him about anything, good OR bad, very far in advance, he mentally chews the thing to death and makes himself almost ill with it. Every conceivable and inconceivable impossibility has to be thoroughly worried and fussed about. So now we just say vaguely "Maybe we'll do something fun on Monday" and allow maybe 24 hours tops when he knows precisely WHAT we've got planned, not enough time for his brain to run down rabbit-holes and turn pleasure into freakoutsville. If it's something worrisome like getting braces, we mention it vaguely months in advance (when possible) and then drop the whole topic until just beforehand.

Sometimes I think this goes along with overachieving. They can't just be in the moment.

[ 19. March 2012, 02:23: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 

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Posted by Tilley (# 13687) on :
 
A quick hello after being away from the board due to work, selling the house, planning to move house and so on. DD is looking forward to the move, pleased that we will be closer to school and relieved that we will bring the cat with us.

I've been Princess Grumpypants lately - probably not going to win any Superlative Mother of the Year awards. I haven't been well and that makes things a bit difficult.
 

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Posted by Talitha (# 5085) on :
 
My 20-month-old daughter is just getting into the tantrum stage

Before, I thought tantrums happened when they can't have something they want, and you just had to avoid giving in, and they'd stop after a few minutes. But with most of hers I can't figure out what caused them, and they go on for ages, sometimes half an hour.

I'm almost worried they're not tantrums at all but attacks of some kind of pain. The health visitor thinks they're fine, from a description, but she hasn't seen them.

Also, sometimes my daughter gets into a state where she doesn't want to be picked up or put down - I'm holding her and she kicks and squirms like a child who wants to be put down, and cries, but then if I do put her down she howls and screams as though to say how could you abandon me in my darkest moment? The other day this happened at the park, and I had to carry her home kicking and screaming, and hope no one thought I was kidnapping her.

She's nearly impossible to distract when she gets like that. And the screaming fries my brain.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Make sure there's nothing around she can injure herself with and leave her to it.

Yes, that's hard. She is, however, beyond reason and nothing you can do will make a difference. When it's blown over, go back, give her a hug and pretend it never happened.

Your sanity will thank you.
 

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Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
Even at this age they figure out very quickly how to get to you. If she has picked up how anxious the tantrums make you, she will know that she can control you and try all the harder. Trying to distract her may just be feeding her attenditon seeking.

ignoring her as long as she is in safe place is the best.
 

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Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :
 
KGlet1 hated to be touched while in a tantrum. The main thing is to be as calm as possible while it's going on - much easier said than done, I know! - and to give hugs and reassurance once it's over. They often scare themselves getting out of control like that. With KGlet2, I usually say something like "you felt very angry and upset" and he agrees and later says, "I'm happy now!"

Figuring out why can be very hard, especially when they're pre-verbal. A lot of frustration around at this age!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
If you're worried there might be something more to it, videotape one of them and show it to your pediatrician. If for no other reason than to put your mind at ease.

When my little guy was going through the tantrum stage I used to carry him as quickly as possible to a quiet place with no visual stimulation whatsoever. Usually I looked for a plain white wall, or a corner (all the better to block out distractions with, my dear). Then I held him (hopefully in my lap, but by the shoulders if necessary) facing that blankness.

It really seemed to work.

I think tantrums come in two kinds, the involuntary and the "let's try this out on Mom." From the age of your daughter, I expect you've got the involuntary ones, the ones that are as much a surprise to her as to you. IME these result from being overtired, having a tooth come in, being about to get sick, and similar unhappinesses. It's like the extra stress just fries their little brains and at a certain point the needle swings into tantrum-for-no-reason territory. And a lot of times you have no idea what kicked it off--maybe nothing did, maybe a butterfly flew by or something. But they just wound up in red alert territory. Which for us usually meant "it's time to go home and have a nap," and if I remembered, to get out the thermometer just in case.

No need for discipline with these kinds of tantrums. They're like summer storms, they just come, and the kid is not using them to manipulate. You can usually tell when and if they move on to stage two, "let's freak Mom out and see if I can get some candy." Because in those cases, their goal is crystal clear.
 

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Posted by no_prophet (# 15560) on :
 
Some children are simply reactive where small, even unobserved things, can put them over their ability to tolerate. We had one (who is now an adult) who wouldn't settle to sleep, woke all the time, would tantrum and melt daily. I ended up once in a cool shower fully clothed holding her: wouldn't ever subject any child to anything I wouldn't subject myself to.

We learned that some children find that their ability to manage feelings and input from their senses lags behind the inputs. We also found that this child did extremely well with quiet calm times, and if we built this into each day, it helped a lot. We also had to have the end of the work/school day when the absent other children and parent would come home, be a calm time, without excessive excitement. It continued into school age, but all cleared up by about grade 3 / age 8. I suspect it might have stopped earlier, except that school provides a lot of stimulation, and a child who has some trouble controlling feelings may keep it together only to melt a bit at home. This child (now adult) has always been extremely intuitive, and can read others moods etc in very sensitive ways. Perhaps for some, the temper tantrum reactivity is the downside to this.

The concept of 'melting' was something we adopted, and was helpful to all of us. In situations of duress, like long car trips, shopping excursions etc, we talked about when melting was acceptable or not, and it is strangely possible to schedule melting a bit.
 

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Posted by Talitha (# 5085) on :
 
Thanks for all the advice - sorry I didn't see it sooner, I was refreshing the page and failed to notice it had gone onto a new page

Yeah, I'm pretty sure she's not doing it deliberately. She's upset and/or frustrated.

Perversely, it's actually relatively easy for me to not react - like I said, the screaming fries my brain, so I default to sitting silent and motionless and staring unfocused unless I do make a big effort to respond and try to distract her. So maybe I should carry on with the non-response and just stop feeling guilty about it and feeling like I ought to be Doing Something.

Holding her during a tantrum - whether in a hug or facing a wall - would upset her more. But I will make more of a point of hugging and comforting her afterwards.
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Hey Talitha -

Fries my brain too!

With ours, we got into the mantra 'nothing sad has happened...'- i.e. if it has, then fine, I'll give you a cuddle now. If it hasn't, then fine, make the noise if you want to, but I'm not going to listen to it. I'll give you a cuddle when it stops. Perhaps when a little older, a place to do that kind of crying is useful (bottom stair is handy, as it doesn't build in aversion to anything else, such a sent to bedroom might).

This works well if we stay upbeat, breezy and calm. Which is not all the time...! Even saying 'I'm not angry with you - I just want you to make that noise over there, please' can be good...

It gets so much easier when they can talk. You're nearly there!
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Oh, another one -

Use your hand over their mouth when they're wailing for nothing (hold it, social workers, it's not what you think) to go 'mwha mwha mwha' and turn it into red indian (sorry, native american...er...first nations...er) noises. Worked well with ours, who would even laugh, sometimes.

Remembered this one whilst reprising it with nearly 7-yr-old this morning. She didn't laugh
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Make sure there's nothing around she can injure herself with and leave her to it.

Yes, that's hard. She is, however, beyond reason and nothing you can do will make a difference. When it's blown over, go back, give her a hug and pretend it never happened.

Your sanity will thank you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Talitha:
maybe she was just having a bad week for some reason.

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Perhaps she was overheated? It's been pretty warm on this neck of the woods recently
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
My turn.

I've got an overly sensitive preteen who is far too smart for his own good. Meaning, he can imagine sixteen impossible horrors before breakfast--and freak out over them.

Case in point: summer is approaching, and his father gets up while he is still asleep to water the garden. I go off to work early, as I've done lo these five years already, taking one car (the other is still in the driveway). When he wakes to find no one in the house at that exact moment, he immediately assumes we've gone off together and LEFT HIM. And melts down.

I asked him how he could possibly think that when a) we've never done such a thing in our blessed LIVES and b) there is still one car in the driveway (durrrrr). He replied that he assumed I'd taken his father with me. WTF?

In the same way every bug bite is a potentially Serious Medical Condition™, and when a bully threw a woodchip at him and hit a teacher instead (and was promptly busted), my kid assumed that he himself would be the one in trouble.

I know the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and I have anxiety issues. But I've done my darndest to shield him from them, and he's never had to go through the major trials we have (bar the bullying, and his issues didn't start with that,though it didn't help either). In fact, I feel like I spend all my time being blase about everything just to set him an example of calm. (I come and freak out on the Ship instead, you poor people.)

Does any of this sound familiar to anybody? And what can I do about it? He's been seeing the school counselor for yonks, but frankly she's a neophyte and relies on workbooks and such, sort of "formula for a better life". Mr. Lamb is an experienced pastor and trained professional counselor, and he's scratching his head. LL is physically healthy and my gut (and much experience) tells me that he is not suffering from some horrible mental illness--just way, way too imaginative and apt to follow a mildly worrying train of thought to the inevitable trainwreck conclusion.

Tiredness makes it worse. Hunger makes it worse. Being up even half an hour after bedtime makes it hell.

There are times like tonight when I just want to sit on him until he gets a grip and chills out.

I was like this, but having an alcoholic as a father, I learned very young to put on a fake front. It wasn't a good adaptation.

I'm trying to do better by LL, but I don't know if I am. Or how, or what, or what to expect next from a kid being raised in a nonabusive family.

[ 04. April 2012, 03:41: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Ah, well I remember aged about 10, lying awake worrying myself sick that the teacher would discover there were pages missing from my exercise book (when they were handed in, my work would have reached the middle with the staples in before everyone else's and the world would end).

Childhood is not good on a sense of proportion.

I do have to say - and you probably know - though that hypersensitivity doesn't go away. Now, at the other end of life, my midnight frettings are over things long since said or done, which no one but me remembers or cares about.

The answer I suspect - and I might try applying for it even this late in the day - is to have the zen mind of living now, in the moment, neither fearing the future nor regretting the past. If I crack that one, I'll pass it on.

[ 04. April 2012, 07:16: Message edited by: Firenze ]
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Two thoughts spring to mind, possibly neither of them would be right for your particular pre-teen because all kids are different, but they're just my first instinct responses.

The first idea would be a book where the worries get written down. Simply written, not analysed or anything - a worry book. When each worry gets "solved", i.e when the outcome is clear, he just signs them off with a short note of what the outcome was. For example: Worry - mum and dad not here, have I been abandoned? Outcome - no, Dad was in the garden. Worry - I might forget to do my homework and my teacher will be angry. Outcome - my teacher was angry, I did my homework at lunchtime in detention, now the homework is done and the teacher is fine with me again. Just wondering whether something like that might help your boy get his own sense of proportion rather than you telling him which worries are sound and which are not.

Second idea - Worst Case Scenario? When he gets worked up like that, instead of dismissing the worries as unfeasible ("You should know we wouldn't leave you home alone"/"Your teacher isn't going to bother counting the pages in your book!" ), maybe try giving some reassurance but working through a "what if" scenario. So, "I promise that we won't leave you home alone, but let's work out what you would do if it did happen. You are good at thinking things through so what plan would you make if something like that did happen? Who would you ring? Where would you go to? Who would be the best person to help? What could you do in the meantime?" or "I think it unlikely that your teacher will notice or mind that there are pages missing, but what is the worst thing that might happen if she did? Detention? Telling off? How could you cope with that? Or is there a way we could preempt it, maybe by telling the teacher in advance and saying sorry and not doing it again? What do you think?"

His worrying might be excessive now. It could drive you crazy and be debilitating for him. But teaching him to problem-solve and realise how resilient he can be can only help him long term. And after all, a worry is still a worry, no matter how irrational it is. Just like those times you KNOW you've turned the iron off before heading off on holiday but STILL have to go back in and check before you drive away.
 

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Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 
Hi,

I haven't got an answer to the catastrophic thought spiralling, but wanted to say how good it is that he's telling you these thoughts. I didn't use to (v similar child I think) and that made it so much worse for me at the time, and as I've learned since, my parents too - they knew something was wrong with me and I was worrying, but didn't know what.

I remember one time I was fussing about how much I didn't want to go to school (can't event remember why now) and my mum just turned around and said 'well don't go then'. This was the first time I'd really been posed with that as an option (clearly wasn't a real option). That stopped me in my tracks and I was enabled to make a real decision about what I'd do - that helped a lot!

I wondered (in the course of writing this post) if there is anything to be gained through having less of a 'front'. One thing that made my anxieties a lot better is knowing other people get them too. Could you stage some form of low-grade anxiety thought and ask LL what he thinks you should do about the situation. He sounds like quite a mature, and clearly bright child - maybe the worries aren't actually being helped by him worrying that other people don't worry!

I know it was only an example, but with the 'you've all gone and left me' thing, could you offer him the choice of being woken and told when you're leaving/dad is going to water the garden or him trusting that's where you're likely to be? I remember the notepad of paper by the phone being crucial at that kind of age - it's where Mum left notes about where she was, when she might be home (and usually chores to be done...). It was a method of communication that was really clear, always followed and very comforting. My anxieties were always around not knowing where people were and weren't.

Jen
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Ooh, gotta try all these. At last! A sense of hope!

No, really, I'm so glad. As you've doubtless sussed out, I'm having my own spiralling anxieties about this, not helped.at.all. by his counselor saying "could it be educational autism?" to me. I told her if that was so she'd have to class the whole family that way, but clearly I've been obsessing about it anyway.
 

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Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 
Just an aside, but when I was that age and encountered situations where both parents has inexplicably disappeared/not shown up, my conclusion wasn't that they had run off without me, but that the Rapture must have happened! Now that really was a case of growing up with something to worry about!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Awk!
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I'm so glad I popped on board and read this thread, these suggestions are brilliant!

What the **** is 'educational autism' anyway, did she make it up especially for you?
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
No better solutions to offer than those suggested (which sound great) - getting seriously locked into the rational sometimes worked for me, who used to get up in the night to check the car was still there.

I've speculated that in my case, it might have been something to do with spending the first n months in an incubator etc etc. Such is the stuff of pop psychology books, and like your school counsellor, it's no use whatsoever
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
LC, reading your post took me right back to myself as a child! (And gave me the shivers a bit...) I was SO like that. But I'd echo Jenny Ann - it's really good that he's telling you this stuff. I didn't tell anyone really.

I have no idea why I was like that. As far as I can tell there were no Deep Issues going on, and it's gradually got better with time.

Jenny Ann's suggestion of, for example, the notepad is a very good one. Lots of times there are simple, practical things that can be done to try and prevent the worries arising in the first place.

I think the worst case scenario thing might work too. I'm trying to think if it would have worked for me as a child, but I'm not sure, as it's not something my parents did with me.

Looking back, apart from the hours of time wasted in worrying, the main negative impact of that state of mind on me as a child was in having difficulty prioritising - I'd put all my resources into dealing with whatever was worrying me most, which wasn't necessarily the most important thing, which resulted in massive overachievement in areas which didn't really matter, and less than stellar performance in others. So that might be something to look out for.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
to all of you! (I'm beginning to think I ought to do these things on my own behalf as well--maybe keeping a little notebook or doing the worst case scenario would keep me from utterly freaking out at work)

Educational autism--well, that's just the trouble, I have no idea what it's supposed to mean (except as she hastily assured me, it's not exactly the same as "real" autism). Which makes me go . I googled it and found nothing helpful. I have dark suspicions that it might be a new and trendy way of medicalizing weird kids with an eye to gaining extra state and federal funds.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
LC - have you read Susan Jeffers: Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway? It is not really appropriate for your son but it may help you to see ways of helping him - it is a book I have read several times over the years and has helped loads of other people, including my abused twin nephews who thought it great.
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Educational autism--well, that's just the trouble, I have no idea what it's supposed to mean (except as she hastily assured me, it's not exactly the same as "real" autism). Which makes me go . I googled it and found nothing helpful. I have dark suspicions that it might be a new and trendy way of medicalizing weird kids with an eye to gaining extra state and federal funds.

---

quote:

---

Mom/ dad will say what they always say etc

---

True then, and God knows, true now - for me, and my kids...
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Talitha:
Before, I thought tantrums happened when they can't have something they want, and you just had to avoid giving in, and they'd stop after a few minutes. But with most of hers I can't figure out what caused them, and they go on for ages, sometimes half an hour.

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quote:

---

I wondered (in the course of writing this post) if there is anything to be gained through having less of a 'front'. One thing that made my anxieties a lot better is knowing other people get them too. Could you stage some form of low-grade anxiety thought and ask LL what he thinks you should do about the situation. He sounds like quite a mature, and clearly bright child - maybe the worries aren't actually being helped by him worrying that other people don't worry!

---

I have no children, so probably nothing useful to say into your situation, Lamb Chopped. But I do know that I was well into adulthood before it dawned on me - at a real, visceral, level rather than an intellectual one - that other people had fears and worries, too. I still have to remind myself of it consciously and it feels somehow surprising, for some reason. So I can see the sense of letting your son see that a little.

M.
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
I've worked with kids on the autistic spectrum all my career, and never heard of educational autism, but thought you might find this interesting here.

I know how overwhelming anxiety can be... interesting, when you first mentioned 'educational autism' I thought the women was suggesting that the school had caused it...
 

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Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
**bump**

Does anyone have experience treating a really awful diaper rash?

It's a weird one because my son is daytime potty-trained, so he only spends nighttimes in a diaper anymore. But for weeks now he's had a really miserable rash on one area of his butt. Huge red welts, some starting to crack open.

We usually put original A&D ointment (the yellow kind) on him at night, to protect the skin, but switched to the white kind with zinc when the rash got bad. It seems to have gotten worse since.

We haven't changed any household chemicals or laundry soaps that I know of.
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
This may not apply unless your son potty-trained early, but is he teething? That was what always gave Gnome the rashes of doom.
 

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Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
Are you using disposables at all? One of mine had an aweful rash and it turned out to be a reaction to the nightime nappies.
 

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Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :
 
The only thing that really helped for either of the KGlets was to keep it all as clean and dry as possible and use barrier cream. We tried several and they all seemed much the same. It's better to use it thinly rather than slathering it on all over, though.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I'd suggest calling the doctor, and possibly sending him a pic of the rash so he knows how serious it is--but in the meantime if you want to rule out allergies as much as possible, switch to pure unadulterated petroleum jelly (aka vaseline). My son has eczema, and when he's so bad he's starting to bleed, that's the only stuff we can put on that doesn't sting to high heaven. And it's unlikely to cause an allergy (and if it does, you'll know precisely what it is!).

ETA: the petroleum jelly was the dermatologist's suggestion until things improved enough to use creams.

[ 12. May 2012, 21:51: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
 

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Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :
 
Metanium is good stuff for nappy rash.
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Metanium is wonderful stuff - the only thing that killed Little J's bad nappy rashes stone dead - but it may not be available in the US, or be called something else. Here is the company website - the active ingredients seem to be various compounds of titanium.
 

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Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :
 
I would go to the doctor. DS1 had a nappy rash like this, I'd used sudocreme, metanium, you name it. The doctor prescribed a topical antibiotic cream which cleared it up very quickly and it never came back.
 

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Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
Thanks, everyone, for your replies! We've been trying plain Vaseline for a couple of nights and it seems to be really helping- there are still a few painful spots, but most of the rash has settled down a lot.

I would never have guessed that A&D ointment wasn't the best thing to try, over the counter. I'm glad I asked.
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
*slips below thread, tucks in head and then BUMP!*
 

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Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
**bump**

Our 5 year-old is going through an argumentative/talking back stage. Most of the time, she's lovely and kind and friendly (if very talkative). But just at the moment, she will argue about almost literally anything; not just the usual "don't want to get washed and dressed" stuff - anything, even blatant, in-your-face facts. If she's in the mood, she'll argue that white is black. This morning as Mrs Stejjie was going out of the door with her and her 19-month-old sister to their childminder's, she was arguing that the door was open when it was clearly locked. That is the type of thing she'll argue about sometimes. She's convinced her birthday (at the end of October) is very soon, and won't accept our attempts to tell her that it isn't for a little while yet.

It is jut soooo frustrating. Her end-of-year report mentioned nothing about this, just her level of chattiness (which we knew about), so it seems to be us she's picking fights with, not everybody. Sometimes we just give in out of sheer exhaustion, but I kind of think that if we do that too many times it'll just encourage her. Getting angry doesn't help, either.

Any thoughts/help/pointers in the right direction gratefully received!
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Our girl does this sometimes. I blame the National Curriculum; whose idea was it to teach them debating skills?!

I don't know whether this will help you, but in similar situations we do one of the following:

1. If what she is claiming is obviously absurd (eg 'white is black'); 'I'm not going to argue with you, we need to go to school/brush your teeth/bury the gerbil now' [delete as appropriate]

2. If she is asking a question (eg 'Why are clouds that shape?') that we don't know the answer to offhand; 'I don't know/I'm not sure; let's look it up'

3. If it's something that is really important for her to understand (eg road safety), we keep arguing for as long as it takes until she gets it...

Our girl does this kind of thing for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes she's trying to find something out indirectly ('I'm not going to get any presents for Christmas!'), sometimes she's expressing insecurity ('I'll never be able to do this!').

Sometimes, of course, she's just winding us up...
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
My four year old is very into the constant whys and some into the debating and we've had to practice not getting into the argument or getting sucked into a constant string of whys.
Parent: "She's eating because she's hungry. Now let's get shoes on."
Daughter: But why is she hungry?
Parent: Regardless, let's get our shoes on.
etc.
 

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Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :
 
She may be pushing you to see exactly how much authority you have.
If she can successfully get you to say that a closed door is open then the sky is the limit, and she'd be quite scared I'm guessing.

Or it may be attention seeking.

I would be firm in my first response, explanatory in my second and after that change the subject or divert her in some way.
 

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Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :
 
Ours can be like this too. It seems to me that the most important, and hardest, thing is not to get sucked into an argument. Getting angry definitely doesn't help, although I'm hopeless at staying calm. It just increases the noise level...

Jane R's responses seem very useful, and we're currently battling to establish a rule that questions will only be answered if asked in a friendly voice. We've also tried reflecting questions back - "well, why do you think that is?" - which generally gets an "I don't know!" or "I can't remember", but hey.

With the birthday thing, is it worth trying the wish fulfilment line? "You really wish your birthday would come soon, don't you?" kind of thing? "Wouldn't it be lovely if your birthday was tomorrow?"

I've recently been reading a book which recommends descriptive praise as a cure for pretty much everything. The idea being to wait till she stops arguing and praise her for having stopped, or pick a moment when she's being happy and friendly, and praise her for how nice it is to talk to her at the moment. THe theory goes that that will then encourage her to want to please you...

Anyway, I'm fairly tentative with all these ideas but hope they might be of some use...
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Tree Bee:

quote:

---

She may be pushing you to see exactly how much authority you have.
If she can successfully get you to say that a closed door is open then the sky is the limit,

---

My question is: Who has being teaching her Petruchio's techniques?
 

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Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :
 
Thanks all for the replies and advice. I think there's definitely an attention-seeking thing going on; I've heard advice before that when a child's doing that, you praise the good behaviour and ignore the tantrums etc, which is more or less what most of you have suggsted. It's easier said than done, though, especially when your natural instinct is to react and get angry. Praising the good behaviour seems a good strategy, too. So thanks again - we'll keep plugging away!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Alternately, if you're a sarcastic/off the wall kind of parent, pick a random answer ("because the moon is made of green cheese") and offer it up blandly in reply to any time-wasting, don't-really-wanna-know question. Multiple times if necessary.

Your child will learn eye-rolling early, but that's not all bad. And you at least get some pleasure out of the look on her face.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Well, when really bored of why questions, the answer is Z.

Some of it may be trying to learn how to have a conversation too, as well as distraction techniques and wishful thinking and really wanting to know something.
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
LC - Now that really is my favorite technique. Whenever she asks what she is eating--often planning to dislike it depending on what she thinks of the name--I tell her she's eating fried monster. Usually lby the time she finds out what the name really is, she's tried at least a bite and formed her own opinion, if only because she wants to guess what kind of food it really is.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Ooh, lovely! I shall remember fried monster the next time my son asks what's for dinner.

The one we always get is "Where are we Go-O-o-o-ing???" in a whiny voice.

To which the answer is naturally,

"To the moon."
 

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Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :
 
KGlet1 hates being asked what he's done at school or out with grandparents etc. He likes his little secrets. So, the other day I asked him if he'd been to the moon with Granny. He found it hilarious, but ages later KGlet2 confused everyone by announcing that "KGlet1 and Granny drove to the moon!"...

So, careful who's listening!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Still better than "Grandma mooned Kglet..." which is what you might get at certain stages of language development.
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
Argh...just wanted to share the sheer frustration of Things Getting Lost.

4-yo has apparently picked up my nice new, interestingly hinged, Filofax hole punch (I am a new convert to a filofax and am enjoying putting my own bits and pieces in) and engineered its disappearance into thin air. 7-yo may or may not have been around/aware, but No-one Can Remember.

Asking a 4-yo to remember where he put something, or where he was when he had it last is clearly futile; their brains just don't work that way. So it's my luck to overturn all the toy boxes, craft drawers etc until a 6-inch piece of black plastic turns up.

Gaa...nothing to be done. Just glad of the space to come here and moan. Please continue!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I will. Mine has just lost his retainer! And Dad can't get all righteous about it, as he's lost the remote control. Again.
 

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Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Can I add to the never-ending losing of things moan too, please?
We're doing the library scheme - you know, you read 6 books over the course of the summer hols, get stickers etc. All very lovely & a highlight of our summer hols usually.
Can Child B find the book she wants to talk about? Nope. Can she remember what it's called? Nope. Eventually it is found, in a random place - not even I can remember now.
Can Child A find the book she wants to talk about? No.
They are 6 & 9 now and I don't think it's unreasonable for them to look after their stuff better. I think we will have to have stricter places for things - library books to go in bedrooms asap, and the sticker card in the school letters file.
But then...I can see the new library books on the arm of the sofa where they've been dipping in and out inbetween olympic watching, and it's nice that they do that.

Thing is I know what I'd like to do, which is to be tidier myself & set a good example and be patient when things are lost. I'm just a bit crap at doing it.

Anyway. I know they say you get more trips to A&E with a boy, but I wasn't expecting it to start at 8 weeks. I dropped my bag (keys, purse, phone, new hardback book) on his head whilst getting him out of his car seat. He yelled, which I took to be a good thing, but seeing as I was home alone and there was no MrJt9 to encourage rationality, I took him to A&E for a check-over. He was fine. I am now even more neurotic about bumped baby's heads than I was before...
 

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Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :
 
My 20 month old doesn't lose his things - he hides mine! Currently, I am missing one handset for our landline phone (thankfully we have another) and a small alarm clock. I know when he hid the alarm clock, and I am pretty sure it must be in my bedroom somewhere, or at the very least upstairs, but I can't find it! I'm guessing that it's in a drawer, and I have put other things in on top of it by mistake...

R.
 

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Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by the famous rachel:
My 20 month old doesn't lose his things - he hides mine! Currently, I am missing one handset for our landline phone (thankfully we have another) and a small alarm clock. I know when he hid the alarm clock, and I am pretty sure it must be in my bedroom somewhere, or at the very least upstairs, but I can't find it! I'm guessing that it's in a drawer, and I have put other things in on top of it by mistake...

R.

---

Our youngest (2 1/2) has taken out the smart card from our set top box and put it somewhere. During the olympics. Which means that we can just watch the terrestrial channels. Not the red button coverage. Dad not amused!

This is after he lost the remote control a few months ago (think it went in the recycling before we noticed it was missing) Grrr

Tom
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 


Am I happy I'm a grandfather?

You betcha!



But back in the day, some things just went AWOL and I still don't know what the heck they did with them!
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Speaking of which, Gnome came to tell me her pennies (that we use to do math) were lost. After one of those discussions that are so unhelpful that you know they've done something bad, it turned out she'd lost them out the window. Now our windows have no bars and are 3rd floor, so they are way off limits. She obeys re keeping distance etc, but the forbidding unfortunately makes the windows more interesting. Apparently she threw the pennies one by by one out. I'm just picturing what it must have looked like to passersby. (Busy enough street that there very well may have been one.)
 

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Posted by Moth (# 2589) on :
 
I remember an advert from when mine were small in which a harassed father is phoning a motoring rescue organisation and at the same time questioning his son 'But where did you bury the car?', to which the answer is 'In the sand!'. Cut to shot of large beach ...

It really doesn't seem too far fetched once you've been a parent!
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
Oh yes! If you don't intercept him, our 4-yo will happily bury every single sand toy he has on the beach, and then finish up by interring the spade with his bare hands. We lost some toys that came with the cottage we hired in Brittany a few months ago.

At least with a 20-month old, there is a height limit on where you have to look for things. Or is he a piano-climber?

[ 08. August 2012, 20:13: Message edited by: Panda ]
 

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Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
Another small gripe for the list: last week we finally took the sides off our 2-year-old's crib to make it a toddler bed. So of course he's dismantling his room every time he's supposed to be sleeping, because it's so interesting to be able to get out of the bed and play with things.

During one "naptime" he took every single ****ing toy and piece of clothing out and threw them on the floor. And unscrewed all the knobs on his bureau. Thank God we hid the diaper pail.

I'm hoping that making him put all the things away himself, every time he pulls things out, is going to help this new pastime lose its novelty pretty quickly.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Don't hold your breath, dear.


 

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Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Panda:
Oh yes! If you don't intercept him, our 4-yo will happily bury every single sand toy he has on the beach, and then finish up by interring the spade with his bare hands. We lost some toys that came with the cottage we hired in Brittany a few months ago.

At least with a 20-month old, there is a height limit on where you have to look for things. Or is he a piano-climber?

---

He hasn't climbed the piano yet... but he's climbed pretty much everything else, and is also very tall for 20 months, so the range of heights he can reach is greater than one might anticipate!

R.
 

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Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
My third son climbed the piano at 16 months. Fortunately I found him before he tried to get down.
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
I'm glad the subject of beaches has come up, albeit tangentially.

Tips to help us get it into the head of our 7 year old that You Do Not Run Away On The Beach. Ever. We're now living on the coast, and the beach is very much going to be a part of every day life. Groover is loving it, but behaving very badly when we go to the beach. Whenever we tell him off, we get some variation of 'but I forgot I mustn't do X'. The worst thing is when it's time to go, and he doesn't want to, he just runs away. We've explained time and time again how he mustn't do this, and that the beach is not a totally safe place, and every time we go through this, he's very sorry and won't do it again. Until, obviously, the next day, when we go to the beach...

My usual tactic with bad behaviour when we're out is just to say 'right, that's it, we're going home', and to go, but that's more difficult when going home is exactly what we're trying to do anyway. We could tell him that if he does it again, we won't be going to the beach again but that is a)not immediate enough - the idea of something not happening tomorrow is not enough to have any effect on him; b)not very fair on his sister or the rest of us as we all love the beach; and c)likely to be met with 'well I don't care. I hate the beach anyway!' (Did I mention he's 7 going on stroppy teen?).

Any tips before I finally flip my lid would be great.

(He was a climber when he was little. I once found him on top of the television.)
 

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Posted by Enigma (# 16158) on :
 
I know nothing about bringing up children and if I had a hat I would raise it to all of you!!

That being said ---- I wonder in the case of Groover whether it would be possible to hide somewhere when he runs off (though still keeping him in view of course) so that he becomes a little concerned that he might be left behind if he doesn't conform to family expectations?

Possibly too risky though. Prayers for you all as you negotiate the thorny paths of parenthood.
 

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Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
When my daughter was about a year old she hid both our alarm clocks one evening. We searched everywhere. In the end we gave her an old one that didn't work, to see what she'd do, and she carefully posted it into the narrow gap under the divan bed.

We then found the others there, though it wasn't easy to get them out.
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 
Hi Birdie, I think the answer is for you to impose a punishment as soon as possible after you get home, that isn't related to the beach (for the reasons you mention) and that doesn't come as a surprise, but a natural cause-and-effect.

I find I get a lot further with my 7 and 4-yo old boys when I explain things in advance, including what will happen if they misbehave. 'If you run off at the beach, you will go straight to your room (naughty step/corner/whathaveyou) for 10 minutes as soon as we get home.' Then you must enforce it, absolutely the moment you come through the door so that there's no wiggle room.

I would probably take away TV time or computer time for the rest of the day for something like that if it were me. Then the next time you go to the beach you can have a reasonable discussion along the lines of 'What happened last time you ran off? Did you like that? No? Well then, you know what to do.' And if does happen again you respond in exactly the same way and there's no room for doubt. I find twice usually does it.

At the same time, can you allow a certain amount of running, but with clear limits? 'You can run, but when you get to that blue towel/bit of wood you have to come back. Can you show me - ready, go!' I think they train dogs like this...

[ 11. August 2012, 19:05: Message edited by: Panda ]
 

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Posted by Pants (# 999) on :
 
Extendable dog lead.
 

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Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aravis:
When my daughter was about a year old she hid both our alarm clocks one evening. We searched everywhere. In the end we gave her an old one that didn't work, to see what she'd do, and she carefully posted it into the narrow gap under the divan bed.

We then found the others there, though it wasn't easy to get them out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gwai:
Now if I could just figure out what my daughter keeps doing to her bedtime book. I read it to her before I put her to bed, and she loves it. So much so that she keeps "reading" it at naptime and losing it!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by birdie:
The worst thing is when it's time to go, and he doesn't want to, he just runs away. <snip> Any tips before I finally flip my lid would be great.

---

I would consider telling him that big kids stay where they're supposed to be, and don't run off when it's time to go. Since big kids do that, they can have a great deal of freedom at the beach. Since beaches can be dangerous places, little children have to stay very close to their parents, so they don't get hurt.

You're going to have to treat him like a little kid until he can show you that it is safe to treat him like a big kid.

That does mean that, for the next few outings to the beach, you'll have to treat him like a 2-year-old. He has to stay right next to you. That will be tiresome for both of you. But he should decide, pretty quickly, that he can act like a big kid. Let him earn more freedom. If he goes back to the old ways, you clamp down again.

Good luck!
 

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Posted by Haydee (# 14734) on :
 
LC - it's an old discussion on this thread, but have you tried any relaxation techniques with LL?

A friend has a daughter who gets very anxious at all sorts of apparently minor things. They made a mental 'safe place' (in her case lying on a warm beach and hearing the waves) - what can you see, hear, smell etc and then at quiet times practised 'going there' mentally for a few minutes while breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth. When she could do that at quiet times she then practised in busy but non-anxious situations, then finally used it when she felt anxious.

It worked quite well, especially as it gave her a feeling of control, so helped her not to be anxious about getting anxious...

There are different relaxation techniques so it might be worth a bit of research and see if any could be good for your son.
 

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Posted by nomadicgrl (# 7623) on :
 
Is there any hope that the "I was just...." stage of response will end soon? My two and a half year old has an "I was just....." answer to any redirection we give him. He can get very creative with them too... In one recent case he was on a "Why" kick and every answer I gave to his questions was met with "Why" until I finally reached the breaking point and said "S. that's enough. I don't want you to ask 'why' anymore when I give you an answer, no more 'whys'. Do you understand?" Hardly a moment's pause and he looks at me and says "I was just saying the letter Y aloud to myself, that's all". (Admittedly I did have to laugh at that one) ...
I know that it's probably too much to hope for a repentant "Yes Mommy, I see the error of my ways and will reform them", but surely not every correction or request needs to be met with a "I was just..." justification? It's just a phase. Right?
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
It's a Phase.

If you want to shorten it, you can find a way to respond creatively.

YOU: ....

Him: "I was just..."

YOU (wide-eyed and over-acting): Really? REALLY? That's funny, because I was just about to feed you some cheese! [insert other mildly hated activity]

As the protests start, look actively disappointed and say:

"Oh well, I guess if you don't want cheese, you'll have to do x instead." (where x is whatever you told him to do or stop doing)

Lather, rinse repeat, until he does as told.

Annoy him this way every single time, and pretty soon the new topic of conversation will be how strange you are, and not "I was just..."
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Haydee:
LC - it's an old discussion on this thread, but have you tried any relaxation techniques with LL?

A friend has a daughter who gets very anxious at all sorts of apparently minor things. They made a mental 'safe place' (in her case lying on a warm beach and hearing the waves) - what can you see, hear, smell etc and then at quiet times practised 'going there' mentally for a few minutes while breathing in through the nose and out through the mouth. When she could do that at quiet times she then practised in busy but non-anxious situations, then finally used it when she felt anxious.

It worked quite well, especially as it gave her a feeling of control, so helped her not to be anxious about getting anxious...

There are different relaxation techniques so it might be worth a bit of research and see if any could be good for your son.

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I have looked into this, as I hear it's very useful for some people. (In fact I was looking for me, to start with...)

I have to say, though, that I haven't found anything that works very well for me at all, except maybe sometimes prayer. None of the visualization, physical exercises, etc. I could find. And I've talked to several professionals, but none had anything more effective to offer. All of which maybe makes me an oddball, so I can't say it won't work for LL--but now the school counselor has tried this stuff with my son too, and is having the same zip zero effect. I begin to wonder if it's physically based, and we have some kind of hormonal imbalance or something that isn't much affected by mental work.

I've finally given up on that and instead resorted to using his one undeniably major asset, his intelligence--and am now teaching him to THINK all his worries to death, through relentless self-questioning, Socratic style-- on the grounds that if a little thinking got you into this mess, a lot of it may push you out the other end (or at least bore you into calmness). We're having a lot more success with this approach. I wonder why they don't teach it in counseling school?
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
LC - have you read Susan Jeffers' Feel the Fear and Do It Anyway? She takes a similar approach to you at one point, talking about sitting with the fear and working out what is the worst that can happen - it can quickly, in my case, descend into plain absurdity and make me smile, even if I don't want to!
 

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Posted by Haydee (# 14734) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by nomadicgrl:
In one recent case he was on a "Why" kick and every answer I gave to his questions was met with "Why" until I finally reached the breaking point and said "S. that's enough. I don't want you to ask 'why' anymore when I give you an answer, no more 'whys'. Do you understand?" Hardly a moment's pause and he looks at me and says "I was just saying the letter Y aloud to myself, that's all". (Admittedly I did have to laugh at that one) ...
?

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I allow my 5 year old one sensible answer to a 'why?' - after that I just say 'why not?' and give her the task of coming up with an answer. It's working quite well at the moment! Though I'm sure she'll move onto something else soon...
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I used to answer why questions when they were really asking how the world worked, including for all 2 hours of one train journey where we covered farming, geology, weather, watersheds, river formation ... including "I'm not sure, remind me to look it up when we get home", but when they got to that stage the answer to "Why?" is "Z"

And the "but I was just ....", I can remember the grin - and "And I was just ..." answers. I don't remember that one lasting that long, but I do remember her getting upset about having to stop doing something she was involved and interested in. What you might need to do is warn in advance - so discuss what needs to be done that day and when the time comes to do whatever give a 10 minute warning beforehand. "Remember that we have to go out to ... . We are going in 10 minutes, can you finish off what you're doing please so we can go." Then you have to have the discussion again in 10 minutes.
 

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Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :
 
There are a couple of meanings to the phrase "I was just..."

One is a delaying tactic, meaning "I'm a bit busy at the moment, I'll (maybe) do what you ask after I've finished"

Another is a justifying tactic, meaning "you are misinterpreting my innocent remark, and I wasn't really being rude/silly/disobedient" - which is the version I think nomadicgirl is up against.

The advance warning can help with the delaying tactic, but I think you have to become as inventive in your response to the justifying tactic as the child is with his justification
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Nomadic girl my mum's retort to too many whys was

"Y is a crooked letter and you can't make it straight."

Save it up for next time as he can't then plead he was just saying "Y" out loud.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Haydee (# 14734) on :
 
As my older one is 13 - and that's a whole different degree of 'yes, but...', 'why...' and stomping around - I do quite like the 5-year-old version. Enjoy it while it lasts - it gets worse before it gets better .
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 

quote:

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I've finally given up on that and instead resorted to using his one undeniably major asset, his intelligence--and am now teaching him to THINK all his worries to death, through relentless self-questioning, Socratic style-- on the grounds that if a little thinking got you into this mess, a lot of it may push you out the other end (or at least bore you into calmness). We're having a lot more success with this approach. I wonder why they don't teach it in counseling school?

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quote:

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Originally posted by the famous rachel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Aravis:
When my daughter was about a year old she hid both our alarm clocks one evening. We searched everywhere. In the end we gave her an old one that didn't work, to see what she'd do, and she carefully posted it into the narrow gap under the divan bed.

We then found the others there, though it wasn't easy to get them out.

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Bother - I should have tried this straight after he hid the first one (which is still missing). If I give him another one to hide, and surreptitiously watch him, he will inevitably have found a new hiding place by now!

Rachel.

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