Ship of Fools: What do I need to know about going to England/St. Albans

Thread: What do I need to know about going to England/St. Albans Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on :

Well, presuming the creek doesn't rise (as my grandmother would say), Rug and I are planning to spend a week in St. Albans in July.

Considering that the most I've been out of the country is a day trip to Juarez Mexico as a teenager, what do I need to know?

And further more, what is Rug going to do for a week? I'm going to be singing/practicing much of the time with the church choir group, but he doesn't sing at all.

[ 29. December 2012, 18:43: Message edited by: PeteC ]

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :

What do you need to know? First, there's no apostrophe. Second, the city's history - religious, historical and secular (Google must be your friend here). Third, you'll never meet a resident who was actually born in the city. Fourth, what to do while you and Rug are here: live music at the Horn, or the Redbourn folk club, browsing in the twice-weekly open air street market or the antique shops on George Street. Real ale at any number of pubs.

Do send me a PM if you want to know any more or if you'd like to meet for a drink.

(there's at least one other Snorbens resident on the Ship, so lets hope they can tell you more)

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :

Sorry, my reply was of course specifically about St Albans, not England as a whole (I wouldn't know where to start on that one!) Whatever, I do hope you both enjoy your time in England and Snorbens.
Where is your church group singing?

Posted by rugasaw (# 7315) on :

The choir well be singing at the Cathedral. All that you suggested sounds fun. I am also more than willing to do a day trip anywhere. I up for meeting for a drink. I'll pm you when I have more of a schedule to go by. I will also try to remember not to pronounce the apostrophe when discussing St Albans.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

St Albans is a lovely place! There is a lot to do in the region, depending on what Rug wants to do. London is not far away, providing pretty much anything you would want. When you know your itinerary, I might be able to help more. PM me if you want, as I don't always check these threads.

England as a whole - we are a lovely people, as long as you are polite and not a stereo-typical "loud American". Actually, coming from Texas, that might be a problem [Biased]

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

The Roman site Verulamium is well worth a visit. I remember a school trip there way back in the 70s, it was great.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

I have met Rugasaw and Pata le Bon, my recollection is that they are both from Oklahoma though now in Texas, but I might have remembered that wrongly. Anyway I can confirm that they are not stereotypical anything but very good folks who I advise you to meet. Rugasaw, I will send you a message to see about meeting up if you would like to.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

The first thing I learned as an American in England was that they weren't half as excited about me being there as I was. I learned that while still in line at Heathrow's customs. Nevertheless...England in July! You're so lucky! It's the most beautiful place in the whole world! (Well I've only been to a few countries but it's the prettiest of all those, and after three years there, I was still looking out the window in the morning and pinching myself.)

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

England as a whole - we are a lovely people, as long as you are polite and not a stereo-typical "loud American". Actually, coming from Texas, that might be a problem

Don't worry about it ,dear, they'll never hear you over the clatter they make with their silverware. [Biased]

Posted by rugasaw (# 7315) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
... as long as you are polite and not a stereo-typical "loud American". Actually, coming from Texas, that might be a problem

WHAT WAS THAT? WE AINT LOUD IN TEXAS.

Moonlit Door I would love to meet up with you and Schroedinger's cat as well as anybody else. And you are correct we are both originally from Oklahoma.

Twilight, there is nothing more beautiful than southeastern Oklahoma waist deep in a river at day break running a trot line. But, I expect England to be a close 2nd.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

When you know your itinerary, a meet up by the Cathedral would probably attract a few others too.

Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
The choir well be singing at the Cathedral.

Whether or not we sing "well" will be in God's hands and how much we practice. [Biased]

We will be singing evensong at the Cathedral during the week.

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

That apostrophe in the thread title was beginning to annoy me seriously.

Don't forget your passport. You may need a visa, as well. (I don't)

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Don't forget your passport. You may need a visa, as well. (I don't)

Passports can take a while to process. Apply NOW if you haven't already.

U.S. citizens do not need visas.

I'm crossing the pond for the tenth time this summer. I wouldn't be doing that if I didn't think England was the most wonderful place on earth. [Smile]

Posted by Curious (# 93) on :

I love St Albans - there is so much to see. The Cathedral is beautiful- you are very lucky to be singing there.
When in July will you be there? This sitegives the dates of the Folk Festival which goes into the first week of July and this one tells you what else you can enjoy there.
I might be up for a meet....

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

The International Organ Festival is taking place in St Albans between 11 and 20 July 2013. If you are there during this period there will be wall-to-wall music - and not only on the organ.

St Albans a great town although like most British towns rather spoiled by the traffic on the roads. Apart from the Abbey and Verulamium you ought to drop in to St Michael's church (near to Verulamium) which is a lovely small church with Saxon bits and a mediaeval Doom.

And it's only half an hour by rail from London, so makes a great base for seeing the sights there.

Posted by rugasaw (# 7315) on :

We are scheduled to arrive July 20th and leave July 27th*. It appears that I will be on my own from 3pm on, although I would like to catch an evensong or two. On Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Friday I have great latitude on where and when I need to be anywhere. Pata may have some leeway on Sunday and Friday. We will be with a group of people. I have no problem ditching the bigger group but Pata will have to stay with them more. Who knows some of the bigger group end up tagging along with me.

*All dates and times are subject to change.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

The trouble with trying to catch Evensong during the summer months is that the resident choirs tend to be on holiday and although the visiting choirs will mostly be very good, they're not what you'd hear during "term" time.

You may well be looked after in St. Albans by a friend of ours who is the Minor Canon Precentor there, and was a chorister and then lay-clerk in the choir in Belfast when we were there (and is Jolly Good Chap).

I hope you have a wonderful trip.

I've just re-read Rugasaw's post and realised they meant catching one of the Evensongs PataLeBon is singing in ... [Hot and Hormonal]

Mind you, you're within not-too-hard reach of several other cathedrals ...

[ 30. December 2012, 02:26: Message edited by: piglet ]

Posted by rugasaw (# 7315) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
Mind you, you're within not-too-hard reach of several other cathedrals ...

I wouldn't want to appear to religious, after all this is a choir trip. By the way I have great confidence that the choir will do well*. They have some very talented people. But don't believe me come by and enjoy them.

*Pata you notice I splet better.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
St Albans a great town

City actually. A small city, but a very proud place nonetheless.

SC - proud city resident.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
St Albans a great town although like most British towns rather spoiled by the traffic on the roads. Apart from the Abbey and Verulamium you ought to drop in to St Michael's church (near to Verulamium) which is a lovely small church with Saxon bits and a mediaeval Doom.

St Michael's Village used to be quite pretty (haven't been there in some years now), and I think still has a working watermill which you can look around - all very scenic.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Bring a good raincoat, hat and umbrella.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

We'll probably be in the middle of a drought then. Just for a change.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

Have they announced the hosepipe ban yet?

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Yes, do remember we have two types of droughts in the UK. This year we had the sort of drought where it rained solidly for the entire year. We do also have the more normal type of drought where it doesn't rain much for a couple of weeks, at which point the panic starts and everyone says that we are running out of water.

Oh, we also have a strange sense of humour. But at least we can spell humour.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

Actually although English people like to moan about the weather, the average annual rainfall in the south east of England is less than it is in Houston. One obvious difference from Texas though is the impossibility of predicting the weather at any time of the year. It could be 55 degrees when you are here or 85 degrees, or possibly both during the same week.

Posted by mrs whibley (# 4798) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
St Albans a great town although like most British towns rather spoiled by the traffic on the roads. Apart from the Abbey and Verulamium you ought to drop in to St Michael's church (near to Verulamium) which is a lovely small church with Saxon bits and a mediaeval Doom.
St Michael's Village used to be quite pretty (haven't been there in some years now), and I think still has a working watermill which you can look around - all very scenic.

Still there, according to a website - as is the Waffle House, which sells yummy waffles (or did, 20 years ago, but appears to be under the same management). Walk them off around the lake and then quench your thirst in Ye Olde Fighting Cocks which not only has a naff name, but claims to be the oldest continuously licensed pub in England. The Abbey is then just a stagger back up the hill!

Other tours are available - mine tend to take in the Life and Times of a Teenage Whibley [Smile]

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mrs whibley:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:
Apart from the Abbey and Verulamium you ought to drop in to St Michael's church (near to Verulamium) which is a lovely small church with Saxon bits and a mediaeval Doom.
St Michael's Village used to be quite pretty (haven't been there in some years now), and I think still has a working watermill which you can look around - all very scenic.
Still there, according to a website - as is the Waffle House, which sells yummy waffles (or did, 20 years ago, but appears to be under the same management). Walk them off around the lake and then quench your thirst in Ye Olde Fighting Cocks which not only has a naff name, but claims to be the oldest continuously licensed pub in England. The Abbey is then just a stagger back up the hill!

Other tours are available - mine tend to take in the Life and Times of a Teenage Whibley

Yes, the Waffle House and the watermill are still there, and if you visit you should climb into the roof of the mill and see how the stone grinders worked. Personally,I wouldn't go to Verulamium (heresy!!!) or the Fighting Cocks, especially if you're very tall(there are better pubs),if you have such a short tight schedule and might want to see something of London too. The lake is naff, plagued by duck shit, and edged with rigid concrete so that no wildlife can really settle or shelter, though you might spot some herons on the 2 islands. But, as Mrs W said - other tours are available.
Walk round the old streets near the Cathedral, see the unique WW1 war memorials on the front of ordinary houses and be shocked at how so many young men from these humble streets gave their lives.
Hope to hear your choir and to meet up with you both and other shipmates.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
... the average annual rainfall in the south east of England is less than it is in Houston...

Yeah, but Houston is built on a swamp between a river and a lake and has the latitude and the climate of Cairo. Its a damp hot place!

quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
It could be 55 degrees when you are here or 85 degrees, or possibly both during the same week.

I've no idea what those strange numbers mean, but in July in the London area (which Snorbens is) the mid-afternoon temperature is typically 20-25 C. It can be as low as 15 on a cool day (exceptionally down to 10) and as high as 30 on a hot day (exceptionally up to 40). On average you are more likely to feel too hot than too cold in July, though don't bet on it. It didn't happen this year.

Brits are bad at extreme temperatures, because we get so few of them (we are much better at coping with floods!) so if its very hot - say above 27 C or so - expect most places without airconditioning to be unpleasantly nastily hot and sticky. In England basically no private houses have airconditioning, and few shops do (though modern shopping malls will). Don't bet on A/C in a hotel. Even some modern ones don't have it. Why bother if you only need it for three weeks in the year? And we can never tell which three weeks they will be - usually they are between May and September - but not always.

Cathedrals and big old churches are glorious exception to that because the thick stone walls and large airy spaces keep cool on even hot days, almost like being in a cave.

So bring some cool clothes. Also an umberalla or some kind of hat is good if you are out in the rain. Really heavy rain is rare but even in summer you often get a sort of intermittent light drizzle, almost a heavy mist rather than rain, which comes and goes all day. (If you were in the west of Scotland that would be almost continuous in some years, but the SE of England its more like one day in ten.

And, as others said, London is very near if the delights of St Albans start to fade. Cambridge is quite near too.

[ 30. December 2012, 23:17: Message edited by: ken ]

Posted by rugasaw (# 7315) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
... the average annual rainfall in the south east of England is less than it is in Houston...
Yeah, but Houston is built on a swamp between a river and a lake and has the latitude and the climate of Cairo. Its a damp hot place!

So plan on the weather being like Houston's winter.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
... the average annual rainfall in the south east of England is less than it is in Houston...
Yeah, but Houston is built on a swamp between a river and a lake and has the latitude and the climate of Cairo. Its a damp hot place!
So plan on the weather being like Houston's winter.

Don't plan on the weather at all. Be prepared for anything. Checking the forecast before you come should let you know if it a cold time or a hot time or a wet time or whatever. It could be any at any time of year.

Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Don't plan on the weather at all. Be prepared for anything. Checking the forecast before you come should let you know if it a cold time or a hot time or a wet time or whatever. It could be any at any time of year.

So like Oklahoma then?? [Biased]

The rule being: If you don't like the weather, wait 10 min, it will change.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PataLeBon:
The rule being: If you don't like the weather, wait 10 min, it will change.

If it's nice it probably will. If it's horrible you might be stuck with it for a while.

But don't let me put you off! We Brits love moaning about the weather, and those of us in the damp northwest usually have plenty to moan about. The SE is usually better in summer.

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
When you know your itinerary, a meet up by the Cathedral would probably attract a few others too.

Definitely. Shamefully I have never been to St Albans' Cathedral.

Posted by Yerevan (# 10383) on :

Firstly St. Albans is dinky (we're talking 'city' in the UK not the US sense [Razz]

). Secondly, it is close to London.

Posted by Yerevan (# 10383) on :

And if you're crazy enough* (and get up early enough) a day trip to Paris by Eurostar is actually doable.

*I would be crazy enough

Cambridge is about an hour's drive outside rush hour, and Oxford only a little over that. Other than that, and London obviously, there aren't really a lot of urban delights in the neighbourhood.

[ 31. December 2012, 14:42: Message edited by: Yerevan ]

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

I would be crazy enough to do a Paris day trip too, and have been. You can be in Paris by 10am and not have to leave until about 8pm, and still be back in London early enough to get home.

And if you book early enough, it's only £69 for a day return.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

The Roman Remains are in three main places - it's worth pinpointing them on a map so you visit them all. Verularium is the covered museum on the edge of the town, but be sure to also walk across the park to view the mosaics and Roman Wall; also in the opposite direction (and across the road) to view the theatre (this is on privately owned land, so easily missed). In the town you can enjoy climbing the old clock tower (which is also a museum). It would be good if you could combine your visit to the cathedral with a choral evensong or other musical event to bring the cathedral alive.

I managed to fit all this in to two half-days, so it should be possible to manage all in one day, but be warned - you'll be very tired at the end!

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
I would be crazy enough to do a Paris day trip too, and have been. You can be in Paris by 10am and not have to leave until about 8pm, and still be back in London early enough to get home.

And if you book early enough, it's only £69 for a day return.

But there is SO MUCH to do and see in England! Why kill a whole day going to France?

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

I went to Hatfield House once when I was staying with relatives who lived near St Albans. It's a stately home that has a lot of royal connections (Tudor) and I remember it as being interesting. It's not too far from St Albans.

Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :

I like Milton Keynes (yes, I know. There are a few roundabouts there) which isn't far from Snalbans. (tho I'm not sure how easy it iso get from one to t'other without a car) Reasonable shops, the Church of Christ the Cornerstone, Exscape (should you fancy skiing) plus some good galleries and other culture. But I'm a bit biased having lived there for quite a few years.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I have worked in Milton Keynes, and it is an hours drive north - not impossible, but not a short visit. By public transport it is hideous.

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

While you are doing choir practice in the cathedral there is an ancient pub just down the path from the cathedral.

Wortth visiting for an ale and some food.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

I'd much prefer a trip to Paris than Milton Keynes! [Razz]

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

I hope you have a great time. On the beauty/prettiness thing ... I'm not sure it does to compare countries and regions in terms of that ... each area is distinctive and it would be like comparing sausages and oranges or bread and apricots. Some parts of the English countryside move me to tears. Other parts are bland. It's the same with France or Ireland or anywhere else in Western Europe - although the lowland British meadow and hedgerow systems are pretty distinctive.

I would imagine southern Oklahoman or Texan scenario to be, at times, pretty awe-inspiring.

The countryside around St Albans will be very gentle and English 'Home Counties'-ish ... it's nowhere near as scenic, though, as genuinely scenic parts of the UK like Dartmoor, The Yorkshire Dales, the Cotswolds or the Pembrokeshire Coast etc ...

That said, decent pubs and ancient churches and within easy reach of London. Cambridge is well worth a visit too.

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :

I can't think of anything St Albans is (likely to be) missing. It's on the borders of (hilly) countryside, and is moderately sized so you won't be struggling for food*. Good church history, and good British history.
You've got London a train ride to the south.

Annoyingly to get anywhere interesting and condensed you probably want to go back to London and out.
Bedfords nearish and nice but a touch small, (but if you have any puritan connections...might be worth a try).
Nottingham's ok, recognisable (Robin Hood) much the same as St A (but without the Abbey).

I'd be tempted to suggest a walk though a few villages and by posh houses, for a different Britain but by definition they're off the beaten track.

And another city but I can't think of a convenient one Cambridge or Oxford is probably worth considering. Possibly Peterborough (flag fen?), If you were visiting Birmingham I'd say (Lichfield&Tamworth) or Shrewsbury but you're not.

*The mainline supermarkets are Sainsburies, Tesco, Morrisons and Asda (when they differ Asda is cheaper and Sainsburies better, but are mostly identical).
Regardless of lifestyle you could live of any of them if you needed**, many have a cafe as well and late hours.
**It's a bit of a waste of a chance to patronise a butchers, pub or restaurant. But it's good to have a plan for if you return late and hungry.

[ 01. January 2013, 14:00: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

Posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis (# 3886) on :

One thing you need to be aware of is that British prices have a nasty tendency to be the same numbers as American ones but in pounds- which is wonderful for us when we visit the USA, but probably somewhat painful in return.

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis:
One thing you need to be aware of is that British prices have a nasty tendency to be the same numbers as American ones but in pounds- which is wonderful for us when we visit the USA, but probably somewhat painful in return.

Oh, yeah! Preach it!

Posted by Yerevan (# 10383) on :

quote:
I managed to fit all this in to two half-days, so it should be possible to manage all in one day, but be warned - you'll be very tired at the end!

Everything in St. A is doable in a day, or a day and a half max if you're being leisurely.

I'm going to politely beg to differ on the visit-worthiness of Milton Keynes [Biased]

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