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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The10K BA (another way to pay for university)
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
What do you think? Is an online university degree the wave of the future? Are those who insist on classes and facetime educational Luddites?
Will this help people move up the economic ladder? Or is it simply another way to let middle class people deceive themselves into thinking they can move up, when really, it's not possible any more?
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
Since such a huge part of the college experience is social, I would hope that the people developing on-line degree programs would consider how to develop a (non-virtual) community of the people who enroll in this sort of learning. If they put a reasonable amount of thought into that, the costs would not have to be driven up markedly but the experience would be enriched substantially. Or so ISTM.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
A large part of a proper university education is also learning how to learn.
Degree mills - places like the Phoenix University, or AC Grayling's crammer for the UoL exams can get you through a set of hoops - but if they do the former, it is usually more by accident.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
Well, if you haven't yet played around with it, may I suggest exploring the free Khan Academy. It is an intriguing concept, and is more effective than you might imagine. FWIW
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
I teach for the Open University. We have been doing distance learning degrees for over 40 years. Most students study part time whilst working full time in a job - I did my own degree whilst working full time as a nurse. It has certainly made degrees more accessible for those who traditionally wouldn't go to uni. I was brought up on a very rough estate and don't know any friends from my childhood who went to university. This style of uni is also very accessible to the disabled.
Until last year a degree with us cost about 4 thousand pounds, since government changes to funding it is about 15 thousand pounds.
The students on my course get about 10 hours face to face tutorials on a 60 credit course, that is, one sixth of a degree or half a year. Some courses don't have any tutorials. Teaching is via course materials and forums, continuous feedback is given via regular assignments. Students are supported by an Associate Lecturer and by a very good Learner Support department. But our degrees do require a lot of motivation from the students so are not for everyone.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Yes, those of us in higher ed are talking about it all the time. Online is definitely the wave of the future, and the only way to bring costs down. But we are still learning how to make it work, so the product at this point in time is usually inferior to what you'd get in a brick-and-mortar univ. But we're getting there. It will be a hard paradigm shift for those of us employed in academia, but a welcome one for debt-ridden students.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I did a Master's by distance learning with a reputable university in the UK - not on-line, I don't think that would have worked for me.
It was OK, not the same as having discussion and debate with a lecturer - the one time I tried to ask a question of my 'tutor', I really got no proper answer.
However, I was only doing it for fun, not to advance my career, and so those things didn't matter - it was fun.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I expect a history degree could be done on line but not a degree in chemistry, which needs a hands on lab.
My (possibly flawed) understanding is the liberal arts schools subsidize the science schools in a university. The liberal arts students get the old classrooms and a whiteboard, the science students get the new buildings with frequently updated lab equipment and computer/electronics. Costs for providing a science education are higher than costs for providing a liberal arts education, students pay the same, liberal arts subsidize sciences.
*IF* that is true, moving liberal arts on line for less money will make a liberal arts education more accessible but will hurt the sciences.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I expect a history degree could be done on line but not a degree in chemistry, which needs a hands on lab.
My (possibly flawed) understanding is the liberal arts schools subsidize the science schools in a university. The liberal arts students get the old classrooms and a whiteboard, the science students get the new buildings with frequently updated lab equipment and computer/electronics. Costs for providing a science education are higher than costs for providing a liberal arts education, students pay the same, liberal arts subsidize sciences.
*IF* that is true, moving liberal arts on line for less money will make a liberal arts education more accessible but will hurt the sciences.
Most schools with a decent chem department also do a lot of research. The big-ticket items are often paid for by research dollars. If I had to guess, I would suspect that research is a net money earner for any respectable university. At least when I was working at Brandeis many long years ago, the school got more than 100% of the face value of a grant for "administration" of the grant. It was a major source of revenue.
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I expect a history degree could be done on line but not a degree in chemistry, which needs a hands on lab.
My (possibly flawed) understanding is the liberal arts schools subsidize the science schools in a university. The liberal arts students get the old classrooms and a whiteboard, the science students get the new buildings with frequently updated lab equipment and computer/electronics. Costs for providing a science education are higher than costs for providing a liberal arts education, students pay the same, liberal arts subsidize sciences.
*IF* that is true, moving liberal arts on line for less money will make a liberal arts education more accessible but will hurt the sciences.
There are a couple of options, from what I've been reading. Some of the MOOC (online courses in the tens of thousands) have virtual labs, which work for some but obviously not all, work. Collaborative arrangements might be made for some sorts of regional work at local community colleges, at least on the undergrad level. Still going to be more costly and require more logistical challenges, but possible.
otoh, science might lend itself more to the sorts of objective examinations favored with online education (especially MOOCs), whereas liberal arts courses that require lots of written interaction are going to still need to be small enough that a professor can read all their essays.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Morgan
Shipmate
# 15372
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Posted
I have spent decades, on and off, completing undergraduate and post-graduate education while working full time. This has been mostly, but not exclusively, through Charles Sturt University. It has always worked well for me. Over the years there has been a gradual shift from purely print-based resources to mostly online content. This has improved both the delivery and the interpersonal content enormously.
My most recent study experiences have included online resources, CD-ROM resources, discussion forums for both student-student and student-tutor contact, less formal forums for other purposes,and remote library access including ordering books to be sent out to me.
Most subjects also had a few days face-to-face contact each semester. Variation in the number of days required was mostly related to the nature of the subject. Lecturers/tutors also had regular times of availability each week to take phone calls from individual students.
I loved not having to use precious study time traveling to and from lectures, and being able to personally tailor my study by spending more time on certain aspects and less on others. You can skim parts of a text book and spend extra time on other parts but you can't fast-forward or replay a live lecture. I have also used recordings of live lectures and that did not work well. The print-based or virtual work prepared by lecturers was always far superior.
If I contemplated another further study course, online would always be my preference.
Posts: 111 | From: Canberra | Registered: Dec 2009
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Modern technology that we all have (being internet users) means that an online course can definitely be handled synchronously, with the professor having the exact same amount of time with a class as the in-person version of the course. The students can even interact.
Blackboard is one such platform. It allows the professor or students to upload presentations, to use a whiteboard, to speak to or even see each other, to text-chat each other, and to poll each other.
Not sure it will help people move up the "ladder," but it certainly would make it more convenient for working class people to be able to earn a degree.
[ 01. February 2013, 23:43: Message edited by: Olaf ]
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
It might be nice if the trades - practical sciences, business, that sort of thing - that don't require human interaction (as, e.g., nursing does) would go online so universities could be universities again instead of trade schools. Anything that is pursued for itself, for theory, for the enrichment of humanity, etc. seems to be marginalized in the university now unless it can feed into the practical trades, the ones that make money for both the university and its graduates. That mentality that a university degree is *only* or *primarily* about enriching your paychecks afterwards is probably what led to online "universities" in the first place.
--churchgeek, disgruntled philosophy major (undergrad) and current theology student (PhD) ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I did my history BA through the Open University. I already had a degree in law, so I'd had the social experience.
It was ideal for me - I did a half-credit course whilst working full time (and pregnant) and then I started the foundation course when 39 weeks pregnant with my first child, having given up work. I had to drop out for a year when my second child was unwell, but I went back to it. Apart from the first six weeks of the half-credit course I was either pregnant or breast feeding for the entire six years it took, start to finish.
It wasn't expensive at the time and I ended up with a 2:1. At the time, it was just starting to go online - I had videos and cassette tapes through the post, which are now delivered as online material. I can't speak highly enough of the OU experience.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
I too can see the point of learning study skills by attending uni, but doing subsequent qualifications through distance learning.
My kiwi daughter in Canada, who did her BA and a post-grad diploma at NZ universities, is now doing a diploma in digital photography through the Southern Institute of Technology in Invercargill NZ. At the SIT there are no base fees for students on campus or elsewhere to pay – my understanding is that the city pays them to attract students. But I'm pretty impressed with the course she's doing, the work she's producing, and her tutor's communication.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
I'm impressed by what I've heard of SIT, GG. There is a campus here although I'm not too sure where as their previous one is now a heap of rubble.
Huia ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
[ 02. February 2013, 05:10: Message edited by: Huia ]
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
I really think on-line wouldn't have worked for me, and if I decided I wanted to do something else, I would only go for a course on paper.
The reason being that I did a lot of my studying on the daily commute, and while it was OK wrestling with paper while standing on a crowded train, a laptop was impossible for the one thing we had on CD. This meant I had to print everything out before I went to work, which meant I couldn't get the half-hour studying in that I usually did.
On-line? I don't know if our commuter trains have wi-fi.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
It might be nice if the trades - practical sciences, business, that sort of thing - that don't require human interaction (as, e.g., nursing does) would go online so universities could be universities again instead of trade schools.
The OU has nursing and social work degrees which we teach in conjunction with local hospitals and authorities so that students have work based placements. But by far the best seller is the MBA, it is hugely popular to do that whilst still working.
One of our strongest points is teaching students study skills. On the foundation courses (I teach a health and social care foundation) we make no assumption about previous academic experience and study skills units are written into the course. One of the most satisfying things as a tutor is watching a student develop these skills and gain confidence in their abilities. Many of my students left school at 16 with few formal qualifications yet study successfully later in life when the time is right for them.
I'm just finishing a history degree this year, it is my second degree. Distance learning can be very addictive ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
Dog Activity Monitor
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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claret10
Ship's Paranoid Android
# 16341
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Posted
Have a degree that I did in person at university and now am doing an online masters. Having done some degree level modules first to gain access to the masters as it is a change of subject.
I have received far more support online for study skills than i ever did at university. All my online courses have expected quite a lot of independant research and practicles, both research and videoed counselling sessions. Otoh my friends daughter is doing an OU course and appears to just rely on the course materials and is relying on me to support her with study skills. (Now this may be she isn't really fulfilling course requirements)
I think online degrees are beneficial for people who would otherwise have issues accessing university, whether it be other commitments such as work or children or issues such as mental health.
I would personally say that on line study has challenges that actually attending university lacks. You need to be well organised able to motivate yourself to study and good time management.
On my course I have had facetime with both lecturer and students via webcam, interactive classroom and skype and have performed group work with other students.
I did though try to convince my friend's daughter against her mother wishes to actually go to university as it would allow her to leave home.
Personally I feel online course/degrees are more appropriate for further study or for career change.
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Just when you think life can't possibly get any worse it suddenly does
Posts: 137 | From: Somewhere, nowhere, anywhere | Registered: Apr 2011
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
My online course experience is limited. I took most of a course on Linear Algebra last year. There is certainly joy in watching a top notch professor present a subject.
In the U.S. Science Departments get a huge amount of money for research. This started in WWII and the unfortunate side effect is that administrative staff has swollen to handle the paperwork. At one point I was told that the school I went to, MIT, was seriously considering dropping undergraduates and focusing on research and graduate schools.
The online courses will provide an education as the cost of college continues to soar.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Eleanor Jane
Shipmate
# 13102
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Posted
It's been a while, but I'm not sure that online courses are that much cheaper in New Zealand (at least from well respected Universities).
I did a Masters in Management while working full time. There was one lecture of three hours (but usually closer to two) once a week after work plus the usual access to lecturers. Slides from lecturers and assignments were shared online. I could have had books from the library sent to me, but I was close enough to go myself when I needed to. I mostly used journal articles that I could get from online databases.
It worked really well for me. It was a bit hideous when it got to the thesis (but I would have hated that no matter how it was arranged... just not my style of study). It wasn't cheap, though. My lovely mother paid for it or I couldn't have managed.
Cheers,
Eleanorjane
Posts: 556 | From: Now in the UK! | Registered: Oct 2007
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
otoh, science might lend itself more to the sorts of objective examinations favored with online education (especially MOOCs), whereas liberal arts courses that require lots of written interaction are going to still need to be small enough that a professor can read all their essays.
"Objective examinations"? No such thing! Not in any subject. Different kinds of exams select for different kinds of people. You can't say one is obejective and another subjective.
If all you mean by objective is simple yes-no answers, or multiple choice questions (which are not inherently "objective" in any real sense) , well, to be honest something that can be successfuly taught and examined like that probably ought not to be worth a university degree.
No reason to think scinece subjects are more sutied to such testing athn aoithers either. I haven't done physics beyond A-level, but biology at univeristy involves essay writing, and arguing one point of view against another.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
otoh, science might lend itself more to the sorts of objective examinations favored with online education (especially MOOCs), whereas liberal arts courses that require lots of written interaction are going to still need to be small enough that a professor can read all their essays.
"Objective examinations"? No such thing! Not in any subject. Different kinds of exams select for different kinds of people. You can't say one is obejective and another subjective.
If all you mean by objective is simple yes-no answers, or multiple choice questions (which are not inherently "objective" in any real sense) , well, to be honest something that can be successfuly taught and examined like that probably ought not to be worth a university degree.
No reason to think scinece subjects are more sutied to such testing athn aoithers either. I haven't done physics beyond A-level, but biology at univeristy involves essay writing, and arguing one point of view against another.
Well, there you go then. So fold the sciences in as well to the challenge of MOOC education being the examination/ assessment. What that means, then, for educators like me (cuz hey, it's all about me, right?) is you'll take away the part we love most about teaching (classroom interaction) and make our job 100% the thing we hate most (grading). Bleh.
Not an argument v. online education-- we have to do whatever we can to bring down the obscene costs. Just a personal lament.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
More British youngsters should be encouraged to go to university abroad. It's often much cheaper, and they could gain access to good jobs that are denied to them in the UK.
Although many courses are now conducted in English, I think the decline of foreign language studies at school and the lack of focus on other cultures has made many young people scared of doing anything serious when they travel. It's a great shame. And our politicians don't want to encourage young people to broaden their vision by taking their skills abroad.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
After a day at work where much of it, like many office jobs, is spent in front of a computer screen, I for one wouldn't want to start having to study online (= another screen) in my spare time. It's nice to read real books, and talk to real people that you wouldn't normally get to meet, and have the feeling that you're in a quite different setting.
I began a part-time degree with the OU some years ago and quite enjoyed the feeling of getting away from my normal environment (home as well as work). I didn't finish the course, but it is quite demanding doing coursework on top of a full day's work as well. If you miss a week for whatever reason it can be difficult to catch up.
However, multimedia is the way of the future. Increasingly, coursebooks are coming with online resources and it's not difficult to see the focus shifting to the online resources becoming the primary focus. And the overheads of such a course are less for the course administrators. There will very likely be a lot more online courses offered in the future.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Another way to have a 10K BA or actually much less than that, would be to get educated in the 1970s. Tuition was just under $300 per year.
Consider that summer work netted $300-400 per month in those days. Thus about 1 months summer work paid for it. Today, a full summer's work (4 months) doesn't pay for a year's tuition. I think therefore the answer to a cheaper degree would be for corporations to pay their fair share of taxation (which they have not since the Reagan-Thatcher-Mulroney era) and for the proceeds to be directed towards what they were 30-40 years ago.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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