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Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I expect a history degree could be done on line but not a degree in chemistry, which needs a hands on lab.

My (possibly flawed) understanding is the liberal arts schools subsidize the science schools in a university. The liberal arts students get the old classrooms and a whiteboard, the science students get the new buildings with frequently updated lab equipment and computer/electronics. Costs for providing a science education are higher than costs for providing a liberal arts education, students pay the same, liberal arts subsidize sciences.

*IF* that is true, moving liberal arts on line for less money will make a liberal arts education more accessible but will hurt the sciences.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I expect a history degree could be done on line but not a degree in chemistry, which needs a hands on lab.

My (possibly flawed) understanding is the liberal arts schools subsidize the science schools in a university. The liberal arts students get the old classrooms and a whiteboard, the science students get the new buildings with frequently updated lab equipment and computer/electronics. Costs for providing a science education are higher than costs for providing a liberal arts education, students pay the same, liberal arts subsidize sciences.

*IF* that is true, moving liberal arts on line for less money will make a liberal arts education more accessible but will hurt the sciences.

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There are a couple of options, from what I've been reading. Some of the MOOC (online courses in the tens of thousands) have virtual labs, which work for some but obviously not all, work. Collaborative arrangements might be made for some sorts of regional work at local community colleges, at least on the undergrad level. Still going to be more costly and require more logistical challenges, but possible.

otoh, science might lend itself more to the sorts of objective examinations favored with online education (especially MOOCs), whereas liberal arts courses that require lots of written interaction are going to still need to be small enough that a professor can read all their essays.
 

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Posted by Morgan (# 15372) on :
 
I have spent decades, on and off, completing undergraduate and post-graduate education while working full time. This has been mostly, but not exclusively, through Charles Sturt University. It has always worked well for me. Over the years there has been a gradual shift from purely print-based resources to mostly online content. This has improved both the delivery and the interpersonal content enormously.

My most recent study experiences have included online resources, CD-ROM resources, discussion forums for both student-student and student-tutor contact, less formal forums for other purposes,and remote library access including ordering books to be sent out to me.

Most subjects also had a few days face-to-face contact each semester. Variation in the number of days required was mostly related to the nature of the subject. Lecturers/tutors also had regular times of availability each week to take phone calls from individual students.

I loved not having to use precious study time traveling to and from lectures, and being able to personally tailor my study by spending more time on certain aspects and less on others. You can skim parts of a text book and spend extra time on other parts but you can't fast-forward or replay a live lecture. I have also used recordings of live lectures and that did not work well. The print-based or virtual work prepared by lecturers was always far superior.

If I contemplated another further study course, online would always be my preference.
 

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Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :
 
Modern technology that we all have (being internet users) means that an online course can definitely be handled synchronously, with the professor having the exact same amount of time with a class as the in-person version of the course. The students can even interact.

Blackboard is one such platform. It allows the professor or students to upload presentations, to use a whiteboard, to speak to or even see each other, to text-chat each other, and to poll each other.

Not sure it will help people move up the "ladder," but it certainly would make it more convenient for working class people to be able to earn a degree.

[ 01. February 2013, 23:43: Message edited by: Olaf ]
 

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Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :
 
It might be nice if the trades - practical sciences, business, that sort of thing - that don't require human interaction (as, e.g., nursing does) would go online so universities could be universities again instead of trade schools. Anything that is pursued for itself, for theory, for the enrichment of humanity, etc. seems to be marginalized in the university now unless it can feed into the practical trades, the ones that make money for both the university and its graduates. That mentality that a university degree is *only* or *primarily* about enriching your paychecks afterwards is probably what led to online "universities" in the first place.

--churchgeek, disgruntled philosophy major (undergrad) and current theology student (PhD)
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I did my history BA through the Open University. I already had a degree in law, so I'd had the social experience.

It was ideal for me - I did a half-credit course whilst working full time (and pregnant) and then I started the foundation course when 39 weeks pregnant with my first child, having given up work. I had to drop out for a year when my second child was unwell, but I went back to it. Apart from the first six weeks of the half-credit course I was either pregnant or breast feeding for the entire six years it took, start to finish.

It wasn't expensive at the time and I ended up with a 2:1. At the time, it was just starting to go online - I had videos and cassette tapes through the post, which are now delivered as online material. I can't speak highly enough of the OU experience.
 

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Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :
 
I too can see the point of learning study skills by attending uni, but doing subsequent qualifications through distance learning.

My kiwi daughter in Canada, who did her BA and a post-grad diploma at NZ universities, is now doing a diploma in digital photography through the Southern Institute of Technology in Invercargill NZ. At the SIT there are no base fees for students on campus or elsewhere to pay – my understanding is that the city pays them to attract students. But I'm pretty impressed with the course she's doing, the work she's producing, and her tutor's communication.

GG
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I'm impressed by what I've heard of SIT, GG. There is a campus here although I'm not too sure where as their previous one is now a heap of rubble.

Huia

[ 02. February 2013, 05:10: Message edited by: Huia ]
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
I really think on-line wouldn't have worked for me, and if I decided I wanted to do something else, I would only go for a course on paper.

The reason being that I did a lot of my studying on the daily commute, and while it was OK wrestling with paper while standing on a crowded train, a laptop was impossible for the one thing we had on CD. This meant I had to print everything out before I went to work, which meant I couldn't get the half-hour studying in that I usually did.

On-line? I don't know if our commuter trains have wi-fi.

M.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by churchgeek:
It might be nice if the trades - practical sciences, business, that sort of thing - that don't require human interaction (as, e.g., nursing does) would go online so universities could be universities again instead of trade schools.

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The OU has nursing and social work degrees which we teach in conjunction with local hospitals and authorities so that students have work based placements. But by far the best seller is the MBA, it is hugely popular to do that whilst still working.
One of our strongest points is teaching students study skills. On the foundation courses (I teach a health and social care foundation) we make no assumption about previous academic experience and study skills units are written into the course. One of the most satisfying things as a tutor is watching a student develop these skills and gain confidence in their abilities. Many of my students left school at 16 with few formal qualifications yet study successfully later in life when the time is right for them.
I'm just finishing a history degree this year, it is my second degree. Distance learning can be very addictive
 

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Posted by claret10 (# 16341) on :
 
Have a degree that I did in person at university and now am doing an online masters. Having done some degree level modules first to gain access to the masters as it is a change of subject.

I have received far more support online for study skills than i ever did at university. All my online courses have expected quite a lot of independant research and practicles, both research and videoed counselling sessions. Otoh my friends daughter is doing an OU course and appears to just rely on the course materials and is relying on me to support her with study skills. (Now this may be she isn't really fulfilling course requirements)

I think online degrees are beneficial for people who would otherwise have issues accessing university, whether it be other commitments such as work or children or issues such as mental health.

I would personally say that on line study has challenges that actually attending university lacks. You need to be well organised able to motivate yourself to study and good time management.

On my course I have had facetime with both lecturer and students via webcam, interactive classroom and skype and have performed group work with other students.

I did though try to convince my friend's daughter against her mother wishes to actually go to university as it would allow her to leave home.

Personally I feel online course/degrees are more appropriate for further study or for career change.
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
My online course experience is limited. I took most of a course on Linear Algebra last year. There is certainly joy in watching a top notch professor present a subject.

In the U.S. Science Departments get a huge amount of money for research. This started in WWII and the unfortunate side effect is that administrative staff has swollen to handle the paperwork. At one point I was told that the school I went to, MIT, was seriously considering dropping undergraduates and focusing on research and graduate schools.

The online courses will provide an education as the cost of college continues to soar.
 

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Posted by Eleanor Jane (# 13102) on :
 
It's been a while, but I'm not sure that online courses are that much cheaper in New Zealand (at least from well respected Universities).

I did a Masters in Management while working full time. There was one lecture of three hours (but usually closer to two) once a week after work plus the usual access to lecturers. Slides from lecturers and assignments were shared online. I could have had books from the library sent to me, but I was close enough to go myself when I needed to. I mostly used journal articles that I could get from online databases.

It worked really well for me. It was a bit hideous when it got to the thesis (but I would have hated that no matter how it was arranged... just not my style of study). It wasn't cheap, though. My lovely mother paid for it or I couldn't have managed.

Cheers,
Eleanorjane
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:

otoh, science might lend itself more to the sorts of objective examinations favored with online education (especially MOOCs), whereas liberal arts courses that require lots of written interaction are going to still need to be small enough that a professor can read all their essays.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:

quote:

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:

otoh, science might lend itself more to the sorts of objective examinations favored with online education (especially MOOCs), whereas liberal arts courses that require lots of written interaction are going to still need to be small enough that a professor can read all their essays.

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"Objective examinations"? No such thing! Not in any subject. Different kinds of exams select for different kinds of people. You can't say one is obejective and another subjective.

If all you mean by objective is simple yes-no answers, or multiple choice questions (which are not inherently "objective" in any real sense) , well, to be honest something that can be successfuly taught and examined like that probably ought not to be worth a university degree.

No reason to think scinece subjects are more sutied to such testing athn aoithers either. I haven't done physics beyond A-level, but biology at univeristy involves essay writing, and arguing one point of view against another.

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