quote:

---

Originally posted by Snags:

Giving thanks for "all the lives touched by Chr.AP" is not conducive to an appropriately worshipful atmosphere, even if you do catch yourself before enunciating it fully.

---

My question - why do you feel the need for a particular 'atmosphere'?

I think this thread may well end up in Purg - to contentious a subject for heaven!



[ 28. January 2013, 12:57: Message edited by: Boogie ]
 

---

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :
 


OK, it was meant to be an opportunity for people to self-humiliate with unfortunate spoken-word moments.

I have neither the time, energy, or inclination to get into a wank-fest on nomenclature or to dance the merry jig of the jerking-knee.

I apologise that the OP was obviously insufficiently clear in its intention of providing light relief, rather than a source of never-ending heated circular argument, and will now crawl back to work having failed at something else.

Thank you for your time.


 

---

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :
 
Here's mine - a personal selection:

• Keep it short - less words is more meaningful and less likely to lead to embarrassment. Especially when speaking extempore.

• Please do not tell us what the scripture or hymn says before it is read or sung. This spoils the surprise.

• Over the last two thousand years the Holy Spirit has inspired lots of very talented people to write beautiful prayers covering just about everything we need to pray for or can be suitably adapted. The main denominations have comprehensive authorised prayers and liturgucal material. Google is your friend. Use them.

• Few of us can pray beautiful meaningful prayers extempore. Learn a few suitable all purpose ones for times when you cannot prepare. Or carry a small notebook with you at all times.

• Banish the word 'just' from your vocabulary unless using it in the context of justice.

• Silence is your friend. See first item on the list. When announcing a time of silence please be silent do not continue your speaking telling us what God is saying to us in the silence. Let the silence be longer than 5 seconds. Do not let the musicians/organist tune their instruments or play extempore during the silence or the catering team rattle their trollies and teacups. Say roughly how long it will last and not to worry as you will signal the end with a short prayer.

 

---

Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :
 
Oh, I forgot,

mumbling away with your chin in your chest is not a demonstration of your extreme humility.

It makes it impossible to hear you, especially for the hearing challenged.

Head up and speak up clearly and a bit slower than normal.

Although there have been many times when I have given thanks for the lack of hearing.

Sorry. I seem to have got a bit carried away. I think I will have some camomile tea or something and a lie down.
 

---

Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 

• Ensure you turn the radio mic on when it is time to speak
• Ensure you turn the mic off again when you are done/it is time to sing/when you go to the loo.

 

---

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :
 
Not my own but a memorable story told of our Rector at his retirement party. That he was recalled to have made an unfortunate Spoonerism during a talk when talking about the 'crowds clapping'... reducing many to giggles!
 

---

Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
Remember you're supposed to be doing it. Last time I had to extemporise because the minister called on me to pray and I thought I was on the following week. Oops. It was fine, by the way, God was good enough to let me get away with it.

When singing something without the music in front of you, don't learn two versions of the words then mix them up between verses. I have only sung a solo once in church. Perhaps this is why!

I have to agree with the "don't interrupt the silence" bit. Also, it occurs to me that music playing underneath speech is difficult enough to hear through in my kitchen on the TV with the sound turned right up. It must be terrible to try to pick out speech from music in an echoey sanctuary. Maybe speech on its own, then music on its own is better for clarity.

Mostly, I think the "It's not about me" thing is important.

Cattyish, finding this interesting. Please keep it going!
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny Ann:

• Ensure you turn the radio mic on when it is time to speak
• Ensure you turn the mic off again when you are done/it is time to sing/when you go to the loo.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Snags:
"all the lives touched by Chr.AP"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cattyish:
It occurs to me that music playing underneath speech is difficult enough to hear through in my kitchen on the TV with the sound turned right up. It must be terrible to try to pick out speech from music in an echoey sanctuary. Maybe speech on its own, then music on its own is better for clarity.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny Ann:

• Ensure you turn the radio mic on when it is time to speak
• Ensure you turn the mic off again when you are done/it is time to sing/when you go to the loo.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitten:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny Ann:

• Ensure you turn the radio mic on when it is time to speak
• Ensure you turn the mic off again when you are done/it is time to sing/when you go to the loo.

---

I control it from the sound desk in my Church, I hand it to the preacher already switched on and forbid them to touch the switch

---

I wish we had a sound desk with an operator as I have to plead utility to the offence of forgetting the mic.

I was fine throughout my training, but as soon as that blue scarf went round my neck things have gone to pot.

I put it down to the brand new tailor made cassock I treated myself to as the control box doesn't dig me in the ribs as it did before. It's now in the pocket as opposed to hooked onto a belt.
 

---

Posted by Laurelin (# 17211) on :
 
When leading intercessions, keep them short and sweet and to the point. Short and sweet is beautiful. The Holy Spirit is not impressed by holy-sounding verbiage, in my humble opinion.

And do not use intercessions to push a particular agenda of your own (owwwww). Do not preach a blinkin' mini-sermon.

I worship at a church where quite a few folk feel free to raise their hands during worship, including me. Folk who are not comfortable doing this themselves, for whatever reason, should not be pressured into doing so. There is room for us all in the house of God. I appreciate high-octane, exuberant worship but I value silence and contemplation every bit as much (if not more so).

I'm a Reader in the CoE and also often lead worship with our music group, so I am used to the potential pitfalls of leading worship and the prime importance of getting the heck out of the way so that God's word is heard and His presence felt.
 

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Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
This wasn't an 'in front of the whole church' thing, but it is still seared on my memory...

In my last church, communion was a fairly informal affair - a 'get into groups and share the bread and wine between you' type job. Often with freshly baked bread (that bit's important). Some people as they passed the bread and wine, simply said 'bless you'; others used a more formal wording. Either of these is fine, but, for the love of all that is holy, I appeal to you never to try and combne the two, or you risk saying, as an elder once did to me:

"The body of Christ, broken for you. It's still warm!"


 

---

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
When you are leading the Lord's prayer, don't get mixed up between versions, moving from one to another..
 

---

Posted by AberVicar (# 16451) on :
 
As my father taught me (repeatedly!):

Stand up; speak up; and shut up.
 

---

Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by AberVicar:
As my father taught me (repeatedly!):

Stand up; speak up; and shut up.

---

This is sound advice in so many areas of life.
 

---

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Snags - our church is a CAP centre and I can imagine this happening there ... actually I think they would love it! Thanks.

It's not as good as the famous 'pitch his tents' one though (is that still linked on the front page?)
 

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Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :
 
1. Bridges (as in the musical devices) that have no discernible relationship to the tune that people have just been singing are intended for performances of songs. When the congregation is trying to sing along, they kill the song dead.

2. Just because this song slayed the crowd at Let God Spring into Royal Acts of Harvest Growth, backed by a professional band and sound team, does not mean it will sound good in our local church.

3. Just because the songbook says verse 2 goes "Siyahamba ekukhanyen kwenkhos" does not mean you should actually try to sing it, or indeed that it is singable.

I'm spotting a theme. I'll shut up now.
 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
DON'T APOLOGISE BEFORE YOU EVEN START.

One of our house groups led evening service on Sunday and the first thing the leader said was to the effect that they'd never done it before so please be patient with them. They were FINE. Don't set yourself up to fail before you even start.

Oh and another vote for the removal of 'just' from prayer vocabulary. It's like equations in the written word - you audience drops off by 50% with every one!

Mrs. S, Grumpy Old Woman of this parish
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
Oh and another vote for the removal of 'just' from prayer vocabulary.

---

These prayers are known as the prayers of the just.

Moo
 

---

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :
 
I really dislike the prayers of the just and will tune out if they occur. I like pauses between prayers so that the congregation can silently pray on that subject raised. Silences can be more effective than all the words in the dictionary.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
It's not just "just".

It's repeated "Lords" and "reallys" and "woulds" and Evangelical prayer jargon:

"Lord, we would really want to ask that you would just really move tonight in this situation, Lord ..."

Or don't people say that kind of thing any more?

[ 29. January 2013, 12:54: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

---

Posted by Snags (# 15351) on :
 
No, people do

<aside>
This is mostly a very worthy and serious thread for one that I'd intended as lighthearted and fluffy. My frivolity is chastened by your collective seriousness. I feel there must be a life-lesson in here for me somewhere
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
In that case, three real-life things I have heard.

1. Lady in Baptist church prayer meeting:

"Lord, we pray for those who are sick ... of this fellowship".

2. Student in Bible College, momentarily struck by indecsion as to whether she should say "undertake" or "overrule":

"Lord, we pray that you will overtake in this situation ...".

3. Deacon leading prayers in Pentecostal church, accompanied by interjections from the floor:

"Oh Lord" Hallelujah "We worship you tonight" Praise God ... "We think of all those folk who can't be with us this evening" Thank you, Lord!

At this point everyone had the grace to collapse in giggles.

And one I heard about:

"Lord, if there be any spark of revival, any little flame: please water it".

[ 29. January 2013, 13:24: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

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Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :
 
birdie "The body of Christ, broken for you. It's still warm!"

Moo These prayers are known as the prayers of the just.



Baptist Train Fan : It's repeated "Lords" and "reallys" and "woulds" and Evangelical prayer jargon:
<snip>
Or don't people say that kind of thing any more?
******

Sadly it is still very common ime. No sign of it dying out. It tickles me pink because in some places some people cannot complete any sentence without the F word or similar every few words, and this style of prayer reminds me of that. It is a sort of verbal tick and I struggle not to replace all the justs and reallys, woulds and overules with F*** .

Snags: You have clearly tapped into a deep seated seam of angst that needed releasing.

On a more light hearted note I often hear people say in their best holy voices that we are going to medicate or have a medication, instead of meditate or meditation. Sometimes they don't realise they have done this.

[ 29. January 2013, 14:44: Message edited by: Thyme ]
 

---

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurelin:
And do not use intercessions to push a particular agenda of your own (owwwww). Do not preach a blinkin' mini-sermon.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kitten:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jenny Ann:

• Ensure you turn the radio mic on when it is time to speak
• Ensure you turn the mic off again when you are done/it is time to sing/when you go to the loo.

---

I control it from the sound desk in my Church, I hand it to the preacher already switched on and forbid them to touch the switch

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurelin:
And do not use intercessions to push a particular agenda of your own (owwwww). Do not preach a blinkin' mini-sermon.

---

Also, God read the Sunday Times even before you did this morning. So it's unnecessary to pray, as I once heard - "Heavenly Father, as you may know there was an earthquake yesterday ..."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:
God read the Sunday Times even before you did this morning. So it's unnecessary to pray, as I once heard - "Heavenly Father, as you may know there was an earthquake yesterday ..."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Also, God read the Sunday Times even before you did this morning. So it's unnecessary to pray, as I once heard - "Heavenly Father, as you may know there was an earthquake yesterday ..."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cattyish:
It occurs to me that music playing underneath speech is difficult enough to hear through in my kitchen on the TV with the sound turned right up. It must be terrible to try to pick out speech from music in an echoey sanctuary. Maybe speech on its own, then music on its own is better for clarity.

---

This is a real problem on videos that are produced by denominations or missionary societies with a view to them being shown in church. I have often complained about it (to be fair, our denomination now includes optional subtitles).

---

Apropos to this - we're in a thread re what not to do? - what NOT to do in this situation is give the playout package to the AV team without giving them time to test and then cue it.
 

---

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
If I understood what you were talking about, I'm sure I'd be careful!
 

---

Posted by Alex Cockell (# 7487) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Spike:
If I understood what you were talking about, I'm sure I'd be careful!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
1. Bridges (as in the musical devices) that have no discernible relationship to the tune that people have just been singing are intended for performances of songs. When the congregation is trying to sing along, they kill the song dead.

2. Just because this song slayed the crowd at Let God Spring into Royal Acts of Harvest Growth, backed by a professional band and sound team, does not mean it will sound good in our local church.

3. Just because the songbook says verse 2 goes "Siyahamba ekukhanyen kwenkhos" does not mean you should actually try to sing it, or indeed that it is singable.

I'm spotting a theme. I'll shut up now.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurelin:
And do not use intercessions to push a particular agenda of your own (owwwww). Do not preach a blinkin' mini-sermon.

---

Also, God read the Sunday Times even before you did this morning. So it's unnecessary to pray, as I once heard - "Heavenly Father, as you may know there was an earthquake yesterday ..."

---

Which is why the announcements have to come before the intercessions. Even though God knows that Mrs Miggins was taken to hospital last night, some of her neighbours might not.

---

• Forgotten to announce the Bible reading and gone straight into the sermon
• Forgotten the Lord's Prayer
• Inadvertently skipped a major chunk of the Eucharistic Prayer
• Plus many other mistakes....

If you come to a juddering halt and then apologise profusely, it just causes the whole service to collapse. If you say nothing and go on as normal, most people won't notice or will praise you for the innovative way you have done things.

(In the case of the missing Bible reading, I realised (alas, too late) what I had done and so announced the Bible reading towards the end of the service, with an explanation that it fitted as a response to the sermon, rather than as an introduction to it. Most people seemed to buy that, although they did wonder why my wife was visibly struggling to prevent herself bursting into laughter.)
 

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Posted by Laurelin (# 17211) on :
 
This thread is hilarious!



Yep. The Golden Rule for anyone leading worship/prayers/etc is: Get out of the way. Just GET OUT OF THE WAY. Don't draw attention to yourself. And that includes your mistakes. The good folk in the pews, or the comfy chairs, don't give a you-know-what about your mistake. Just move on. People really do want to pray, to experience God's presence. Draw all the attention to Him, and don't tell Him what He already knows.


 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
Mr. S does a lot of stints as laptop operator in church, and suffered many many people coming to him immediately before the service, with 47 pictures on a memory stick, asking him to put them into the PowerPoint (or later Songpro) presentation. To the extent that one Saturday morning he woke up from a nightmare that Archbishop John Sentamu had done that exact same thing to him, and he said to me 'If anyone - even an Archbishop - comes to me tomorrow night and asks me to do that, I'm going to say NO.'

Well, guess what - the Archbishop of our link diocese in Uganda came in, 2 minutes before Evening Praise, with his memory stick and a whole selection of pictures!


I was on the dais with the band, in imminent danger of an accident from laughing so much...

Mrs. S, bewareful of unguarded threats!
 

---

Posted by latecomer (# 8966) on :
 
If you are operating the hymn karaoke machine, and realise the congregation is singing more verses than you have programmed in ........... don't start an extra verse when the congregation is halfway through singing the verse unaccompanied.

(Not me, thank the Lord, but I was there)
 

---

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
Well, guess what - the Archbishop of our link diocese in Uganda came in, 2 minutes before Evening Praise, with his memory stick and a whole selection of pictures!

---

So did he say NO?

 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:

---

Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
Well, guess what - the Archbishop of our link diocese in Uganda came in, 2 minutes before Evening Praise, with his memory stick and a whole selection of pictures!

---

So did he say NO?

---

Pigwidgeon - What do YOU think? No, of course he didn't - it was a lesson in the nature of 'serving/service'. HOWEVER, by relating that story on every possible occasion, he was able to warn people that ONLY an Archbishop could expect that level of 'service'!


Mrs S, still laughing
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I did have to do something similar for an Artist who gave a lecture at our church one lunchtime. When she was setting up it was evident that all the pictures of her pictures (if you see what I mean) were in the wrong format - i.e. not Powerpoint.

While she had her lunch I beavered away reformatting them, however there were lots of them and I didn't have enough time to resize them all nor check the colour balance or order. So, when she showed them, they weren't as good as she (or I would have liked).

What p+ss+d me off what that this was still MY fault - rather than her giving me any credit for the fact that they were viewable at all!

Many years ago I was due to give a missionary slide show (old technology!) at a church on the Isle of Wight. The church supplied the projector and, when we switched it on, the bulb blew. Of course there was no spare.

So I had to describe my slides in words - and in fact that went down very well. But I didn't make a habit of it!

[ 30. January 2013, 15:31: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

---

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :
 
Not present but in my locality -

Visiting minister asked if the little chapel had a screen for his presentation or whether to bring his own.

No-one thought to mention to him that this little rural chapel has no electricity!!
 

---

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
That's really sweet.

They last time I was asked to give a talk (to a secular organistaion) I get to the conference room and find I left my notes on the train.

I managed without. I bet I was better not just throwing quotes at them.

Projectors - aren't you glad they've invented Powerpoint? There was always one slide upside down or slipped down from its slot to jam the machine.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
The best thing I know on the difficulties in giving an illustrated talk in an unfamiliar venue is John Betjeman's "The Lecture". Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be available on-lne (?copyright) but it's in a collection of his works titled "Coming Home".

[ 31. January 2013, 12:20: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by venbede:

Projectors - aren't you glad they've invented Powerpoint?

---

quote:

---

don't read out what's on the slides

---

Actually those of us with visual impairments appreciate having key points on a slide read aloud.

And so do people who don't know how to read. Which is about 50% of the membership at one of my friends' churches. And probably more common is other churches than we always realise.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Fair point. The comment I was making was really that the slides should back up and serve as a reminder to what is said.

What I hate is when the lecture consists purely of reading out the text on the slides - badly.
 

---

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Actually I heard a brilliant use for slides with a sermon. You need two projectors, on one you give all the references both Biblical and extra Biblical and on the other you give the cartoon version of the sermon.

Your actual sermon comes somewhere in between. The first is for the academics who want to know sources and such. The second is for those who struggle without something visual to look at and acts as a reinforcement for what is said.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
I like it!
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Don't say what i heard last Sunday morning: 'The New Testament reading is from the New Testament. It's from Corinthians (no mention of which one) chapter 3, starting at verse 12, which you will find on page XXX in the New Testament section of your pew bibles.'
 

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Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
For more high-church situations, this is the advice our vicar was given while training:

Sometimes, particularly in an unfamiliar church or using an unfamiliar form of service, you will find yourself in completely the wrong part of the church, with everyone looking at you, and no recollection of what you should be doing next. Simply turn to the nearest object - a candle, a statue, the church warden, a fire extinguisher - and bow reverently while you collect your thoughts, then walk to wherever you are meant to be. Nobody will question this.
 

---

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
One given to me by an ordinand friend, if you have done soemthing wrong or lost you way - silence or ceremony will save your a**.

Either go for a silence until you remember what is meant to be happening, or make a ceremonial procession to where you should be/need to pick up what you have lost etc

And the congregation will think it a deliberate part of the service
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
Ah, what delights and subterfuges are sadly unavailable to us Nonconformists! It's enough to send us up the candle ...

I don't quite know what a Baptist minister would do if they discovered that no-one had filled the baptistry before a service of baptism by full immersion. These usually takea couple of hours to fill, often with a hose and often "splashily". No amount of solemn bowing or invented ceremonial could disguise that particular sin of omission.

[ 15. February 2013, 21:40: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
 

---

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
You could suddenly discover a good reason why the service is going to be conducted by tipping a bucket of warm water of the candidates head!

Jengie
 

---

Posted by A.Pilgrim (# 15044) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Actually I heard a brilliant use for slides with a sermon. You need two projectors, on one you give all the references both Biblical and extra Biblical and on the other you give the cartoon version of the sermon.

Your actual sermon comes somewhere in between. The first is for the academics who want to know sources and such. The second is for those who struggle without something visual to look at and acts as a reinforcement for what is said.

Jengie

---

I think that is a brilliant idea. But who draws the cartoons? I guess it's not a common talent among preachers/speakers, so one would need someone else, from the congregation perhaps. For example, I could do the academic reference bit, but not drawing, no no no...
 

---

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :
 
From MWing, first remember that not everyone present has the same command of English (or whatever the language might be) as you do. Modulate your voice and speak distinctly. An hour of coaching by a voice teacher would do the world of good.

If you expect people to follow a text on a screen, do ensure that it is of a font size which can be read.
 

---

Posted by Stumbling Pilgrim (# 7637) on :
 
Offering this as a chance for you all to have a good laugh at my expense:-
When bringing a Powerpoint presentation on a USB stick;
1. Make sure Adeodatus has left the room (if Adeodatus is not actually present you can skip this stage ).
2. Make sure you have actually saved said presentation to said USB stick. This will save you ten minutes of fruitless searching the stick and a dash home to save it properly, returning to the ironic cheers of the assembled worshippers who have been having a lovely sing-song to fill the time until you get back.



[ 17. February 2013, 17:45: Message edited by: Stumbling Pilgrim ]
 

---

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:

When bringing a Powerpoint presentation on a USB stick;
1. Make sure Adeodatus has left the room (if Adeodatus is not actually present you can skip this stage ).
2. Make sure you have actually saved said presentation to said USB stick. This will save you ten minutes of fruitless searching the stick and a dash home to save it properly, returning to the ironic cheers of the assembled worshippers who have been having a lovely sing-song to fill the time until you get back.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Laurelin:
And do not use intercessions to push a particular agenda of your own (owwwww). Do not preach a blinkin' mini-sermon.

---

Also, God read the Sunday Times even before you did this morning. So it's unnecessary to pray, as I once heard - "Heavenly Father, as you may know there was an earthquake yesterday ..."

---

And he's read the Bible. So there's no need for reminders such as, "Lord, it says in your word that the last shall be first and that you suffered little children and so we pray for those who will pinch all the biscuits before the adults get there at coffee break."

I'm completely in agreement about the apologies as well. It's just not inspiring when a speaker begins his talk with "Well, this is a huge subject to cover and I've done my best and spent hours preparing, but I've had a busy week and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to convey what I want to in the 20 minutes given to me." Let's all pack up and go home now then. I remember watching an interview with Kenneth Williams in which he said people should always present things with the attitude that "This is going to be brilliant, you'd better get a load of this" though there's a fine line to be drawn between that and cockiness, which is also a turn-off.

Nen - Carry On Fan.
 

---

Posted by womanspeak (# 15394) on :
 
Prayers need to reflect the gathered communities concerns and contexts.

Teachable moments for the children were lost in an ancient prayer for the blessing of the Christmas Crib which went on and on full of theological jargon and gravitas. This contrasted dramatically with another parish in the Diocese who encourage family groups to prepare intercessions which are shared by all members of the family young and old.

A creative response to intercession last week when I was visiting a church I've MW'd before, was the writing of prayers for Lent during reflective music, including a beautiful rendition of the Lord's Prayer. These were placed in a box in the sanctuary and later each member of the congregation took one home to pray about. However the Rector did call it a lucky drip at one point and a little boy, the last to come forward looked disappointedly at the pieces of paper which didn't seem like lucky dip toys to him.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Qoheleth.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stumbling Pilgrim:

When bringing a Powerpoint presentation on a USB stick;
1. Make sure Adeodatus has left the room (if Adeodatus is not actually present you can skip this stage ).
2. Make sure you have actually saved said presentation to said USB stick. This will save you ten minutes of fruitless searching the stick and a dash home to save it properly, returning to the ironic cheers of the assembled worshippers who have been having a lovely sing-song to fill the time until you get back.

---

3. Make sure you know what else is on the stick.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by womanspeak:
However the Rector did call it a lucky drip at one point.

---

We have had leaks in our church roof and we don't think they're lucky at all.
 

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Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
Don't do what happened in our church on Sunday morning, and follow one young girl's moving testimony about her battle with anorexia, with a reading about Jesus in the wilderness fasting for 40 days and 40 nights.

(Whoever thought that the beginning of Lent was a good time to run a national awareness week on eating disorders?)

Mrs. S, struggling with that one
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Unfortunately for those who don't want repetition of what is in the Bible in prayer, please note that reminding God who God is goes right back to Abraham! Moses was an expert at it and there are a fair few psalms that recount the Exodus narrative again. Telling God what he already knows is an ancient custon. My reading is that God actually does not mind that.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Unfortunately for those who don't want repetition of what is in the Bible in prayer, please note that reminding God who God is goes right back to Abraham! Moses was an expert at it and there are a fair few psalms that recount the Exodus narrative again. Telling God what he already knows is an ancient custon. My reading is that God actually does not mind that.

Jengie

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
Intercessions like ours, yesterday, that lasted 14 minutes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Unfortunately for those who don't want repetition of what is in the Bible in prayer, please note that reminding God who God is goes right back to Abraham! Moses was an expert at it and there are a fair few psalms that recount the Exodus narrative again. Telling God what he already knows is an ancient custon. My reading is that God actually does not mind that.

Jengie

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gextvedde:
If you are wearing a small microphone around your neck which is attached to the PA system make sure you take it off before leaving the front of the church. Otherwise you'll do what I did and simultaneously garrotte yourself whilst falling on your arse.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Intrepid Mrs S:
Don't do what happened in our church on Sunday morning, and follow one young girl's moving testimony about her battle with anorexia, with a reading about Jesus in the wilderness fasting for 40 days and 40 nights.

(Whoever thought that the beginning of Lent was a good time to run a national awareness week on eating disorders?)

Mrs. S, struggling with that one

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
The logical end of that argument is that as you are Anglican the priest should say at the eucharistic prayer something like "the same as last week" and go straight to the serving of elements.

Jengie

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
And if you are wearing a radio mike please turn it off after the service is finished - especially it you need to go to the toilet..... (this happened years ago, when radio Microphones were not that common, at a church I used to attend)

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In a nearby church, the Rector (with brand new clip-on microphone) visited the men's room while the curate was preaching.

 

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Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
Don't say what i heard last Sunday morning: 'The New Testament reading is from the New Testament. It's from Corinthians (no mention of which one) chapter 3, starting at verse 12, which you will find on page XXX in the New Testament section of your pew bibles.'

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Actually I heard a brilliant use for slides with a sermon. You need two projectors, on one you give all the references both Biblical and extra Biblical and on the other you give the cartoon version of the sermon.

Your actual sermon comes somewhere in between. The first is for the academics who want to know sources and such. The second is for those who struggle without something visual to look at and acts as a reinforcement for what is said.

Jengie

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quote:

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Originally posted by churchgeek:

quote:

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Originally posted by leo:
Don't say what i heard last Sunday morning: 'The New Testament reading is from the New Testament. It's from Corinthians (no mention of which one) chapter 3, starting at verse 12, which you will find on page XXX in the New Testament section of your pew bibles.'

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And if you're the lector, and your church uses a set introduction to the reading (e.g., "A Reading from the Book of Genesis"), don't just make up your own introduction for it, such as "This is a wonderful story from Genesis" or even, "The reading this morning is taken from Genesis." Just read what's on the page.

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quote:

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Originally posted by churchgeek:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Actually I heard a brilliant use for slides with a sermon. You need two projectors, on one you give all the references both Biblical and extra Biblical and on the other you give the cartoon version of the sermon.

Your actual sermon comes somewhere in between. The first is for the academics who want to know sources and such. The second is for those who struggle without something visual to look at and acts as a reinforcement for what is said.

Jengie

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For those who don't use slides (PowerPoint or otherwise), and even for those that do, having references in the worship leaflet is a nice way to let people look further into whatever it was you shared with them in the sermon. Our Dean has recently started doing that. She's an academic, so it probably just seemed natural to her. But if she cites an author, the citation is listed in the leaflet. If she references a painting, its artist, title, and a thumbnail image of it are in there. People can then go home and look stuff up if they want to - and it lets them be more focused during the sermon, not having to try to remember that poet's name or having to write down a reference. And people who don't care can just ignore it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by cattyish:
I post this at the risk of becoming a bit ecclesiantc/ kerymanic/ purgatorial. Is prayer telling God what he doesn't know, or telling us what we think God might want to think about right now? Oh dear. My brain just shut down.

I know we're supposed to pray, but the definition of prayer seems as easy to pin down as a wet cat.

Cattyish, doggedly continuing to talk at God.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
The logical end of that argument is that as you are Anglican the priest should say at the eucharistic prayer something like "the same as last week" and go straight to the serving of elements.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Graven Image:
If you have been invited to preach in an unfamiliar church, and have been told to be sure and stand behind the pulpit and speak into the microphone so that you can be heard and video recorded, make sure that the pulpit is not way taller then you are before going up to preach. ( no I am not short, and yes their regular pastor was well over 6 feet and had the pulpit made to his needs)

Answer, Stop and ask for a stool, yes the kitchen step stool will do thank you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
One given to me by an ordinand friend, if you have done soemthing wrong or lost you way - silence or ceremony will save your a**.

Either go for a silence until you remember what is meant to be happening, or make a ceremonial procession to where you should be/need to pick up what you have lost etc

And the congregation will think it a deliberate part of the service

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
And if you are wearing a radio mike please turn it off after the service is finished - especially it you need to go to the toilet..... (this happened years ago, when radio Microphones were not that common, at a church I used to attend)

Current vicar forgot to turn it off, when going into the vestry post service, and those left in the church heard a discussion about this weeks 'takings'

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That has happened in our parish a couple of times - the Reader forgot to switch his mike off and the whole church heard the comments in the vestry. Fortunately, on both occasions it was fairly innocent banter.

I was curate in a church where they always had someone running the sound desk. I was frequently told "don't bother switching the mike off - I will fade you out when you are not talking." NEVER believe this! Always keep control over when your mike is live or not. If you get it wrong, it's your boo-boo. But I much prefer to know that I am "off" when I want to be "off" - not when someone else decides I should be "off". I really hate the occasions when you can hear all the sutto voce comments from the priest when he/she is talking with servers et al. I don't want to hear "have we got enough wafers? Pass me that purifier will you?"

Another couple of useful tips (well - I think they are, anyway")

1. Before the service starts, make sure that all the "props" are in the right place.
Is the Book of the Gospels (if you have one) where it needs to be for the gospel procession? If the service (which you have personally put together) says "a large candle is lit" - then make sure that said candle is ready and not still lurking at the back of the church. (Yes - it happened to me and a damn fool I looked too, wandering off to get it).

One of my tutors at college told the story of how he had been leading a midweek communion service. When he got to the point where the bread and wine were to be placed on the altar, he realised to his horror that there were neither wafers nor bread to be found. He covered his tracks by announcing a time of silent meditation, during which he slipped out of the vestry door, dashed down the road to the corner shop and bought a loaf of Kingsmill and then dashed back to the church.

His point in telling this was if he had bothered checking before the service started, he could have saved himself a whole lot of grief.

2. Make sure your service has a clear beginning and end.
Sounds obvious, but it frequently fails to happen. If people are wandering in to church 10 minutes before the service starts and find that community singing is already taking place, they get confused - especially if they are newcomers. But even worse is when the service seems to end (ie, the minster gives the blessing and says the dismissal) and then the band strike up again and everyone is encouraged to sing 4 or 5 more songs.

 

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Posted by Laurelin (# 17211) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
But even worse is when the service seems to end (ie, the minster gives the blessing and says the dismissal) and then the band strike up again and everyone is encouraged to sing 4 or 5 more songs. [/QB]

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Goodness, how irritating! I'm a 'happy clappy' kind of chick, and that would irritate seven bells out of me. Boundaries, people, boundaries! I sing with my church's worship band, and we are very clear on beginnings and endings. It's really important to let the congregation know what is happening and when.

And why.

Succinctly.
 

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