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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Is Reading Antisocial?
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
We have just been away on holiday with friends, a couple about our age.
My wife and I find reading quite a companionable activity, but our friends appeared perturbed if we picked up reading material when we were with them.
We are not sure whether they felt guilty because they imagined that they must have been bad company, or whether they were passively remonstrating against what they imagined to be our appalling manners.
Neither of us when young was permitted to read at the meal table, and we didn’t allow our own children to do so.
However, we both do so now, and I found myself in sympathy with an American president’s child (was it Chelsea Clinton?) who was reported some years ago as having been in the habit of reading at the White House table.
A related problem is that non-readers seem to think that a person reading isn’t “really” doing anything, and is reading only because they don’t have anything else to do, and that therefore it is perfectly legitimate to interrupt them and ask them to do something else, in a way which would be unthinkable if the person were occupied in just about any other activity.
On the other hand, I can see that reading when another person is not, could be construed as excluding, particularly if the other person is not very literate, and perhaps kids need to be taught that they sometimes need to put themselves out to be considerate, even if it means putting up with boring people rather than engaging with an interesting book.
I suppose that I'm just a bit pissed off and sorry for myself that readers always seem to be the ones expected to make the sacrifices.
[ 24. February 2013, 10:41: Message edited by: Kaplan Corday ]
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
It is a clash of cultures thing, and some people on discovering communal reading are overjoyed! The negative response is partly due to being taken out of their comfort zone, i.e. what they are familiar with.
When I finished university my parents took me and a friend on holiday to a flat we often went to. This flat had a gorgeous bay window that looked out over Windermere. The big struggle with my family was to get us to do anything else there but sit in the window, read books and watch the weather move across Windermere.
The first morning when my parents and I picked up our books my friend was astounded. She although an English major had never ever at home experienced people reading together. She had assumed it was always something you did in private. That did not stop her finding a book and reading to.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I was thinking about this quite recently when I passed a table at lunchtime, which was occupied. A young couple were sitting together - both immersed in reading their phones; a friend of theirs was sitting with them reading a book, and a fourth person had just come to join them, bringing a newspaper. And I thought: what's the point of your all sitting together if you don't want to communicate with each other?
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I think it depends on whether there is a truly communal activity going on, or whether you are pursuing individual instances, even of the same behaviour.
So in our house, we can both get our lunch of choice, sit at the same table, and read. But if it's dinner, which I've prepared as a communal meal, then reading anything other than the wine label is Not Allowed.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
But the absence of conversation is not the absence of companionability. I can remember once at University coming too from a revere. The corridor had groups of students gathered together in friendship groups.
This was pre mobile phone, I recall no books or newspapers.
Yet the corridor was silent.
Yes it was that sod awful time in Candlemas term when everyone is tired and exhausted, it was final year too and if we weren't recovering from a cold we were going down with one. Stressed tired and under the weather nobody was up to making the effort of conversation, but we still desired the companionship of our friends. We could have all spaced out to give maximum space between people we did not.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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busyknitter
Shipmate
# 2501
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Posted
In our house reading at table is allowed if you are the only person there. If two people sit down together to eat at the same time, then that becomes a communal meal, regardless of who is eating what.
Similarly, smartphones are outlawed from the communal table, something Mr BK finds very easy to comply with as he doesn't actually own a phone of any kind. That one's more difficult for me, especially when a quick Google search would prove me right about whatever we are discussing. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
But we do read together at other times and don't think it anti-social at all
[ 24. February 2013, 12:24: Message edited by: busyknitter ]
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
What about when you get a bunch of people who know each other and who are all sitting silently together, catching up on Facebook/texts/emails on their phones? To me that says: "I'd rather talk to someone else than the people I'm with."
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
What an interesting question.
When I was a child we often sat together as a family and read books, usually in the evening - never at the tea table 'tho!
At meal times now we don't have TV, radio, books or anything else on the go. But any other time we'll often be found reading our own books/devices. Whyever not? I would hate to have to keep up constant conversation just because someone else is in the room!
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I can remember being told off as a child for reading at the breakfast table and feeling quite disgruntled because my father always read his paper, unchallenged, at the breakfast table. I don't think it would ever have occurred to us to read at other 'proper' meals.
With my own children the rule became if all four of us were sat down eating together (with or without other guests) then it was a family meal and no books were allowed, but if only part of the family were eating then the individuals could read. Books were also useful when going out for a meal at a restaurant which took ages to serve - the boys could read while they were waiting for their meals, and between courses, but had to stop reading while they were actually eating. It was really good that they wanted to read, so I didn't want to discourage it too much.
Now the boys are grown up, we tend to read over snack meals (breakfast/lunch) but sit and talk over longer, fully cooked, evening meals.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
We don't read over meals at all. If we are on our own, we might sit and watch TV with meals on a tray.
As to whether it is an antisocial activity, it is very much dependent on context. Sometimes I will read when with other people - family and in-laws - and even on the occasions we have been away with friends. It is not considered antisocial, because everyone has a book to read, and often some of the gathered company are talking.
At the same time, I can see how it could be seen negatively. But, given the context (a holiday), I think sitting and reading should be an acceptable relaxing holiday activity. So I am on your side, KC, while accepting that others would find it odd, and some people could find it offensive. But then, maybe they should be more accepting and read something themselves?
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
What about when you get a bunch of people who know each other and who are all sitting silently together, catching up on Facebook/texts/emails on their phones? To me that says: "I'd rather talk to someone else than the people I'm with."
How does that relate to reading a book or newspaper? Both activities that are less demanding of you than conversation but are not in themselves companionable.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
How does that relate to reading a book or newspaper?
They're still reading. With the extra of writing. Are you OK with people doing Facebook or Twitter at a meal?
I also used to sit and read sometimes with my family while they were doing other things, but having a book at mealtimes was definitely frowned on. The only times I was allowed to do this was when as a child I'd be in a restaurant in a group of adults, when I wasn't expected to be able to join in the conversation.
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Chris Elgood
Apprentice
# 17566
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Posted
I boarded this ship two days ago and am just exploring. Reading is at least something I feel able to comment on. The most secure place to do it is in the bath. You need to make yourself a simple lectern to keep the book dry. But if the bathrooms on this ship are the same size as most cruise liners there won't be room for both body and book.
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Chris Elgood
Posts: 2 | From: Kent, England | Registered: Feb 2013
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
My family used to read out loud to each other- one of our grand traditions was sitting down in the living room while someone read a Wodehouse short story, an interesting article from the newspaper, or something else of interest. On road trips, we used to have someone read a novel out loud as we made our way down the road. I was unaware that others find this not only odd, but a bit annoying.
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
Reading antisocial? No. But irritating in our extravert chattering world where "group" and "community" are fetishes.
Reading is one of the last public acts of asserting one's identity left to 21st century man (and the occasional woman). I and my book. A silent communication. Something no one else is privy to. Me (or rather, my mind, my brain) and the thoughts put into words by some other mind (a nightmare for the levellers among us). There's a reader: Engaging with thought, without blurting it all out. How dangerous.
I read, thereby choosing my engagement with something other than that which crops up haphazardly from my external environment. In other words: I freely choose what I engage with. That is of course an unbearable act of rebellion to any extravert, who craves being thrown stimuli like an urbanised duck will throw itself on breadcrumbs tossed to it by well-meaning grannies.
No, reading -and especially reading in the presence of others!- is a great act of intellectual and physical sovereignity. Which is precisely why it irritates some people.
[ 24. February 2013, 14:44: Message edited by: Desert Daughter ]
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
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busyknitter
Shipmate
# 2501
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Elgood:
The most secure place to do it is in the bath. You need to make yourself a simple lectern to keep the book dry.
I love reading in the bath, but have learned through bitter experience to only ever read books that are my personal property.
And of course the capacity to survive a light dunking is the killer advantage that paper books have over e-readers.
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
I love reading and agree that it can be a very companionable thing to do, but there's a time and a place and it can come over as very anti-social. I'd never read at a meal table even on my own - fear of splashing the book with gravy - as to me mealtimes are social occasions. Having said that, we will often eat a meal while watching TV but what we watch has to be agreed on by everyone present so that we all enjoy it.
My father used to read the newspaper at mealtimes and we hated it; to me it signals that the person would rather read than make conversation with other people present. Although my dad wasn't much of a conversationalist, so maybe that's what he was signalling. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) I even find it difficult sometimes when Mr Nen reads the paper (he is not much of a one for books) because to me it signals he doesn't want to talk to me. He insists that he can listen to me and flick through the paper as well but I've tested that out by stopping in mid sentence and he doesn't notice, so I know it's not true. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I'd have talked it over with the couple in question - "Do you mind if I read for a bit? I've got a really good book on the go, but if you want to chat or do something else do say so."
Nen - who counts herself lucky to have never met a boring person.
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I am single, when I take myself out to dinner at a pub or restaurant / pub I always take a book.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
I do not see the difference between that and what my father did which was to have the news on the radio and the rest of us had to quiet.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
Same here, I always carry a book to the pub (and a clip-on reading lamp to make sure I get good lighting).
I find it slightly worrying that some people tend to see reading a book as less desirable than having a conversation. Not wanting to talk to someone does not equate not liking them. It just means that one prefers to be with one's thoughts (and/or book)
As an extreme introvert, the general insistence on conversation as sole acceptable behaviour when in the presence of others is very difficult for me to live.
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Desert Daughter: quote:
I read, thereby choosing my engagement with something other than that which crops up haphazardly from my external environment.
Like people you sat down to dinner with?
quote:
No, reading -and especially reading in the presence of others!- is a great act of intellectual and physical sovereignity. Which is precisely why it irritates some people.
Exactly. The perfect way to say "screw you and your presence" with an intellectual flair. And some people have the nerve to be irritated. Mouth breathers.
I read "alone" in restaurants. I read when the people I'm with are also pursuing different activities. I don't read at dinner with others; I don't read when people have come to visit. If they haven't called ahead (interrupting my private time, unasked) and it becomes a problem, that's a different issue to be tackled.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
The perfect way to say "screw you and your presence" with an intellectual flair.
it does not mean I don't like the person or their presence. It just means I don't want to talk and prefer reading. Again: Why is it that most people consider conversation superior to reading and/or silence?
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
It does not mean I don't like the person or their presence. It just means I don't want to talk and prefer reading. Again: Why is it that most people consider conversation superior to reading and/or silence?
Reading and silence are fine. I do a lot of that myself. But there's a time and a place. If you do it in social situations, it comes across as rude. Do it at mealtimes with other people and you are saying, in effect, "You aren't interesting enough to talk to." It comes across as losing interest in them, switching off and shutting them out. In a social situation. You might as well go to a party, stick your earphones in and sit in a corner reading a book and ignoring everybody for the rest of the evening. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than that.
It's not the same as a relaxed evening (after dinner) where one person is watching TV while the other is absorbed in their book.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Chris Elgood - welcome!
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
How does that relate to reading a book or newspaper?
They're still reading. With the extra of writing. Are you OK with people doing Facebook or Twitter at a meal?
I think twitter and facebook are more interactive. More akin to being on the phone. If I am reading, and someone wants to talk to me, I can easily break off and engage in a discussion. It can be harder if your in the middle of a discussion or chat on T or F.
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Blog
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take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Nenya
Shipmate
# 16427
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
I do not see the difference between that and what my father did which was to have the news on the radio and the rest of us had to quiet.
I agree, I don't think there is a difference.
I don't think it is so much that everyone regards conversation as superior to reading, it's just that to read in people's company is to say, "I'd rather read my book than talk to you." Which is quite rude, I think, unless everyone understands the ground rules and agrees that it's ok. Or unless the people around you are also doing different things. You may never get back the opportunity to share a particular conversation with a particular person; you can always return to a book.
Nen - seize the day. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chris Elgood:
I boarded this ship two days ago and am just exploring. Reading is at least something I feel able to comment on. The most secure place to do it is in the bath. You need to make yourself a simple lectern to keep the book dry. But if the bathrooms on this ship are the same size as most cruise liners there won't be room for both body and book.
Hi Chris and welcome aboard! Hope you enjoy looking around: be sure to check out the board guidelines at the top of each board, as each board has a different character, and our 10 Commandments. You'd also be welcome to pop over and introduce yourself here.
Cheers
Ariel
Heaven Host
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
It's a "some do/some don't" thing. The couple we go on holiday with most often also sit around and read a lot and take three hours over a meal while another is desperate to visit things like castles, gardens, tree sanctuaries, you name it.
Few things are more antisocial than being dragged round some fancy garden when all one has ever wanted of a garden is somewhere nice to sit and drink beer.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
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Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
It does not mean I don't like the person or their presence. It just means I don't want to talk and prefer reading. Again: Why is it that most people consider conversation superior to reading and/or silence?
Reading and silence are fine. I do a lot of that myself. But there's a time and a place. If you do it in social situations, it comes across as rude. Do it at mealtimes with other people and you are saying, in effect, "You aren't interesting enough to talk to." It comes across as losing interest in them, switching off and shutting them out. In a social situation. You might as well go to a party, stick your earphones in and sit in a corner reading a book and ignoring everybody for the rest of the evening. I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than that.
It's not the same as a relaxed evening (after dinner) where one person is watching TV while the other is absorbed in their book.
This.
And for people on holiday, sit down to do some compromising. One person might say he/she wants to do a lot of sightseeing; another wants to catch up with their holiday companions; another needs a quiet reading break in the afternoon. Talk it over. Make sure that everyone gets something of what they want.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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Gextvedde
Shipmate
# 11084
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Posted
Mrs Gextvedde & I often read together and we both find it very companionable. Sometimes we talk about what we're reading. Sometimes we'll sit quietly for hours.
Am I the only person who (perhaps inconsistently) doesn't find reading anti-social but would mind of someone was on their phone texting or looking at facebook?
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"We must learn to see that our temperament is a gift of God, a talent with which we must trade until he comes" Thomas Merton
Posts: 293 | From: The Twilight Zone, near the M25 | Registered: Feb 2006
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Apparently we aren't the first generation to read while in the company of others. The first time I read Pride and Prejudice, I remember thinking how remarkable it was that people were together in the drawing room, (or whatever room it was), and some were reading, some were writing, and some were walking around the room. That seemed to me to be strange, yet I could see how individuals might feel comfortable occupying themselves in different ways.
Our family has always been one of lively conversation during meals, but sometimes, through some kind of hive-mind ESP, we would all have our current books at the dinner table. Then someone would read something provocative, and we'd have a (loud!) conversation about it!
So, I don't see reading as antisocial...I see it as a different form of companionship among like-minded people.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
A lot of the discussion has been about reading at the meal table and as I grew up the given reason for not doing this was because of not wanting to spill food on a precious book. Newspapers weren't such an issue because they were only going to be chucked out anyway. Nowadays I will read (or play) if I am on my own but not when anyone else is there. Usually.
Reading at other (food-free) times can be awkward if one person is reading and the other wants to say something. You can select a book that doesn't require concentration so that you can break off for a chat and then come back to it. But does the other person in the room understand that? Or do they feel unable to start talking for fear of distracting you? Get the ground rules clarified from the start, I guess.
Interestingly if I am reading when we are sitting down in the evening Mrs Rogue is quite happy but if I start playing on my phone she doesn't like it. Also when I read on my Kindle she can't see what I am reading and she doesn't know when I am nearly finished the book, both of which are a minor issue for her. I have no idea why she wants to know either of these.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
At first, when I saw the thread title, my brain read it as Reading, as in Berkshire [UK] which is no more antisocial than anywhere else in Berkshire though, as I recall from long ago journeys, a devil of a place to drive around.
As for reading as a public activity, I'm all for it. I normally have more than one book on the go plus I read a fair bit online. I don't read at mealtimes, except for the paper, but I am to be found reading a lot of the time otherwise. I think reading in company can be very companiable, the fact that you can do it with a particular person showing the depth of comfort in the relationship; I am another one who has been known to take a book to the pub. There is so much mindless junk about these days that any sign of intellectual activity has to be applauded.
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Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
Whilst I think it's fine to read whilst on holiday, curling up with a good book for an afternoon is neither antisocial or unsociable. I would find it weird and unsociable though, if I went away on holidays with friends and they read at mealtimes, I'd think they found my/our company odious. THe whole point of going on hols with other couple/s is surely that you spend some time socialising and meals are a prime time for this I would have thought.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Apparently we aren't the first generation to read while in the company of others. The first time I read Pride and Prejudice, I remember thinking how remarkable it was that people were together in the drawing room, (or whatever room it was), and some were reading, some were writing, and some were walking around the room. That seemed to me to be strange, yet I could see how individuals might feel comfortable occupying themselves in different ways.
We tend to think of Doctor Johnson as talking incessantly when in company, but I recall occasions in Boswell's Life when he would choose instead to peruse books in a crowded drawing room.
[ 25. February 2013, 05:16: Message edited by: Kaplan Corday ]
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
On the holiday I mentioned in the OP, I carried my ordinary telephone which only sends and receives calls, as nature intended.
The others had smart phones linked to their computers and who knows what else, and all three (yes, even the otherwise excellent Mrs KC shares this idolatrous gadgetry addiction) gave absolute priority to the wretched objects’ least squeaks or flashes, no matter what the context, inappropriate or otherwise, in which they occurred.
I consider my tendency to read slightly antisocially on occasion as venial compared to such mortal gaucheries and faux pas.
Harrumph.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I'm another reader in the bath, much to the horror of at lest one librarian colleague. Now I've got a kindle I have to have a specific 'bath book'.
As to being anti-social or not I think it depends on the place and the company. I'm just back from holiday where my husband and I both spent long periods reading, and it felt really companionable. We stopped for meals though.
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gussie:
I'm another reader in the bath, much to the horror of at lest one librarian colleague. Now I've got a kindle I have to have a specific 'bath book'.
You can purchase a glorified plastic bag to keep the water out of your kindle, although I can't help thinking that a wall-mounted screen and something like Microsoft Kinect to do gesture recognition for advancing a page might be attractive...
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I think reading in the bath when you are sharing with a friend may be considered antisocial.
[and apologies to anyone from Berkshire - no offence meant.]
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Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gextvedde:
Am I the only person who (perhaps inconsistently) doesn't find reading anti-social but would mind of someone was on their phone texting or looking at facebook?
you aren't alone in this, Gextvedde. But I think that we are few.
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gextvedde:
Am I the only person who (perhaps inconsistently) doesn't find reading anti-social but would mind of someone was on their phone texting or looking at facebook?
Agreed - reading is a far more peaceful activity than social networking.
But even so - it depends on context. If the situation would normally be one in which people expect to chat, then I think books/phones/notebooks should all be left in handbags/manbags/pockets.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
But even so - it depends on context. If the situation would normally be one in which people expect to chat, then I think books/phones/notebooks should all be left in handbags/manbags/pockets.
Reading in company is fine if it's what everyone wants to do — but the minute one person wants to be sociable and another person wants to read, you have a mismatch of expectations. I wouldn't do it if I'd met up with friends, but I might read in the company of my housemates. I'd probably expect to be disturbed if someone wanted to chat, though — if I didn't want that, I'd read in my room.
Social networking on phones is more interesting, because it can be somewhat sociable — showing off the latest finds (funny images, etc). Amongst the right crowd, I'd do that at the pub.
The only time I'd sit there and consume/post to Facebook without the intention of involving the people physically around me is if I felt I was already being left out of the conversation (e.g. if they were talking about something that excluded me, or if everyone else was already on their phones). Yes, that leads to a vicious cycle starting when the first person gets their phone out, but it's a defence mechanism against feeling like I'm sitting there like a lemon.
Regarding the notifications, one reason I'm looking forward to receiving my Pebble watch is so that viewing a notification doesn't require taking out my phone. The watch lets you view the notification, but not respond to it — so you get to make the decision about whether it's important, rather than being tempted to respond because you're already holding your phone.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
A lot of the discussion has been about reading at the meal table and as I grew up the given reason for not doing this was because of not wanting to spill food on a precious book. Newspapers weren't such an issue because they were only going to be chucked out anyway. Nowadays I will read (or play) if I am on my own but not when anyone else is there. Usually.
I'm reminded of that lovely sequence in the tv version of Brideshead Revsisited in which Charles is staying with his father. Mealtimes are silent and awkward because the old man (played with delicious waspishness by John Gielgud) always reads a book while eating. Charles retaliates by also bringing a book to the table. At which point his father remonstrates with him for not keeping up his end of the non-existent conversation.
I tend not to read at table or in the bath because I'm obsessive about keeping books in good condition. (Most of my paperbacks look unread, because I don't break the spines.) But I think it's one of life's great delights, the moment when you're spending time with a friend, and you find that almost unintentionally, you've each settled into your books and are enjoying both the book and each other's company.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
If one is with a group of people, there is a universal assumption that the group will act according to a group decision while they are together. We are as a species social creatures - solitude is taken on one's own. Reading is an unmistakable sign of "opting out" of that group decision, unless reading is itself the group decision. There is no way out of that - any more than there is for users of mobile phones, tablets etc.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
If one is with a group of people, there is a universal assumption that the group will act according to a group decision while they are together. We are as a species social creatures - solitude is taken on one's own. Reading is an unmistakable sign of "opting out" of that group decision, unless reading is itself the group decision. There is no way out of that - any more than there is for users of mobile phones, tablets etc.
But what's so terrible about opting out if, for example, you're just not interested in the conversation or whatever it is that the group wants to do? If I'm happy to be left to read whilst everyone else chats about - I don't know, football or cars or personal relationships or something that I don't really want to talk about - or whatever, what's wrong with that?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
I'm with Karl on this one. I wished society was a bit more tolerant of us introverts.
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
I'm with Karl on this one. I wished society was a bit more tolerant of us introverts.
I'm an introvert myself, but I don't see that introversion gives one licence to ignore the impact of behaviour on those around one. I can see no objection to drifting in and out of conversation, but the big "back off" sign a book puts up is a powerful communication in and of itself, and not a means of avoiding communication. The normalisation of people using smartphones at "social" gatherings strikes me as worrying because social skills are not innate.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
I'm with Karl on this one. I wished society was a bit more tolerant of us introverts.
I'm an introvert myself, but I don't see that introversion gives one licence to ignore the impact of behaviour on those around one. I can see no objection to drifting in and out of conversation, but the big "back off" sign a book puts up is a powerful communication in and of itself, and not a means of avoiding communication. The normalisation of people using smartphones at "social" gatherings strikes me as worrying because social skills are not innate.
It has just struck me that there is a significant counterbalance to this. I don't see why people are so frequently offended by the idea that one can turn down invitations to socialise in favour of solitude. If I'm not feeling sociable, I nearly always need solitude, and there is little more miserable than enforced socialising, for anyone involved.
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
I'm with Karl on this one. I wished society was a bit more tolerant of us introverts.
I'm an introvert myself, but I don't see that introversion gives one licence to ignore the impact of behaviour on those around one. I can see no objection to drifting in and out of conversation, but the big "back off" sign a book puts up is a powerful communication in and of itself, and not a means of avoiding communication. The normalisation of people using smartphones at "social" gatherings strikes me as worrying because social skills are not innate.
My reading a book while people talk about United's prospects next Saturday (about which I know nothing and care less) does not impact them. At least not half as much as being expected to keep up with such conversations would impact me, anyway.
I mean, I could try to join in by making conversation, but I'd sound like an idiot, because it'd be on the level of "who does the bloke in black play for? He never seems to get the ball." And if I do find a kindred soul and we start banging on about Brythonic languages or punctuated equilibrium or quasar red shifts, then I really, really won't be offended if you turn to the back page of the paper in the meantime.
Similarly, when you've finished looking around a formal garden, wouldn't you rather have a good humoured me with a pint inside me, than a miserable me who's resenting being dragged around the sodding hydrangeas?
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635
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Posted
Yes of course there are social conventions . But I think there is something else about the unease many people have with seeing someone deep in a book. That person is engaging with something private. The reading person is not transparent, not available, pursuing his or her own agenda, in silence, and in exclusion of the outside world. Given the high degree to which most modern people's herd instinct is developed, silence in another person scares them.
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"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)
Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
I should add - if someone's absenting themselves from my conversation, I tend to take it as a hint that I'm being boring, not them.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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