Thread: Whither the North American Tourist? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Hi all,

As some of you may remember, a year and a half ago I asked for help in deciding to what North American universities I should apply for exchange studies. My application was successful and I am now a happy exchange student at McGill University in Montreal. One with a reading week coming up, and no major obligations other than trying to experience as much of this continent as possible.

Thus I ask ye all for advice on what places in North America I should try to visit!
The few unfortunate restrictions are that I attempt to stay largely sober and that I sadly do not have a driver's licence. On the upside, I am very interested in seeing as much as I can, and I am not afraid of long bus journeys to take me there. I have done 48 hour bus rides before, and I see no reason to limit myself further than that I am on a student budget. I think my goals could be more in seeing awe-inspiring culture and nature (including city atmospheres) rather than hip events. Therefore, if you can recommend what we in Sweden call "a place of wild strawberries", i.e. a lesser known treasure, I am very interested in hearing about it.

My reading week begins this upcoming Friday (planning ahead is for the unimaginative) but I have also got plenty of time to explore the continent at the end of April and early May, so feel free to give suggestions that might fit better with more time or planning!

Also, on a last note, something different than Montreal slush would indeed be nice - but I'm also looking at the Canadian Rockies, so it doesn't just go in one direction!

Thanks!
// JFH
 

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
Y'come to Montreal and y'didn't tell me!?!

Oh well, you can make up for it sometime between April 12 and 14 when I am in Montreal for the NDP Convention.

I have my own proud socialist monarchy to keep up.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
If you want to travel cheaply by bus, Megabus is the way to go. It doesn't cover the entire country, but it keeps expanding. The buses are very comfortable.

If you want to see the Virginia mountains, the Megabus from Washington stops in Christiansburg. Let me know if you're coming this way.

Moo
 

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Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
That depends on what you like and how much money you have. If you like museums and culture, Boston, New York City, and Washington DC are all worth a visit. If you are more of a nature lover, the Grand Canyon, Arizona is the largest canyon in the world, and Mammoth Caves in Kentucky live up to their name as the longest cave system in the world.
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Lesser known treasure? Here is one: The House on the Rock.
 

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Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :
 
Make sure you take a trip over to Ottawa. It's only a couple of hours or so away by bus, and the shipmates there will be very pleased to meet you, I'm sure - they're a great bunch of people.
 

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Posted by jbohn (# 8753) on :
 
The American Southwest. This is a decent time of year for it, too- not terribly hot yet (summers are very hot and dry, generally). The scenery is incredible.
 

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
The Outer Banks of North Carolina.
 

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Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by jbohn:
The American Southwest. This is a decent time of year for it, too- not terribly hot yet (summers are very hot and dry, generally). The scenery is incredible.

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And there are lovely Shipmates in the Phoenix and Santa Fe areas.

 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
General replies:

@Sober Preacher's Kid:
I think I might have mentioned it in the other thread, but I suppose I should've made it more clear - I'll make it up as best as I can on said time, although it'll be just before finals! Also, what is the outer banks of North Carolina (Roanoke?) and what can you recommend in particular about it?

@moo:
Thanks for the advice! I've been looking at Megabus and Greyhound generally. I'll be sure to let you know if I'm coming that way! However, I'm afraid you overestimate my knowledge - what is particular about the Virginia Mountains? Bring the sales pitch on!

@Zach82:
I've been to NYC frequently, but I think I'll give Washington and Boston a chance sometime during the spring. However, my main focus is to see the supposed real America, that I don't think I'll have a good chance of seeing later on. I'm considering the Grand Canyon. I hadn't heard of the Mammoth Caves, but it sounds like the kind of thing I might be up for. I've seen some people mention the Bryce Canyon - does anyone know anything about that?

@lilBuddha:
Thanks, checking it out!

@kingsfold:
I'd be up for a shipmeet in Ottawa, definitely. However, all these Montreal people have told me there's not much to see - care to rectify this possible mistake of theirs?

@jbohn:
Thanks! If I have only a few days to swing by, what in the American SW should I not miss?

@Pigwidgeon:
I'll be sure to keep that in mind!

Thank you all for your great suggestions! Please keep them coming!

[ 25. February 2013, 20:32: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
it's a long way and hard to get here, but if you can make a sojourn to Alaska before you leave, you'll love it. The southeast of the state is probably a lot like home for you (forested fjords and lots of sealife and no roads and a cheap ferry to take you everywhere with locals) my part has north America's biggest mountain and it's corresponding amazing national park. and a train to take you there.

This time of year is dog mushing season, which is a crazy blast. summer is beautiful - again, probably a lot like home only bigger with a lot less civilization. and BIG wild life.
 

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Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :
 

quote:

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posted by JFH:
@kingsfold:
I'd be up for a shipmeet in Ottawa, definitely. However, all these Montreal people have told me there's not much to see - care to rectify this possible mistake of theirs?

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Ah, see, Montreal to Ottawa is not far so we're not talking about an extended trip. I guess you could do it in a day if you wanted. Whilst the Museum in Ottawa is well worth a visit, and you can spend a good period of time in there, the real reason to go to Ottawa is to meet PeteC, John Holding, Augustine the Aleut and Henry Troupe and maybe one or two others. It's the shipmates in Ottawa, you see. And all these Montreal People just wouldn't know about this side of Ottawa

[In the interests of some kind of balance, I should say I also spent some time in Montreal when I was out in Canada, and I liked it very much. I'm still not entirely sure climbing the hill up to the cross at the top was terribly sensible, but...]

[ 25. February 2013, 21:19: Message edited by: kingsfold ]
 

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Posted by Martha (# 185) on :
 
The Outer Banks are islands off the coast of North Carolina. I've never been but my brother loves camping there whenever he can. If you like beaches and sea and solitude I think that's the place to go.

The mountains in Virginia are just beautiful. Picture toasting marshmallows over a campfire and gazing up at more stars than you ever imagined there could be.

If you make it to Boston be sure to take the ferry out to the Harbor Islands. They are uninhabited so it's only you and whoever else is on the boat - which when I went was about 6 other people. One island has a deserted army camp for added interest / spookiness.
 

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Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :
 
Seeing as you're in Montreal, and a student, some of the long travels suggested may be a little difficult and expensive. It is closer to go back to Europe that some of the west and south travels. I'd suggest spending some time in the Maritime provinces if you venture our of Quebec. But there's so much in Quebec. Quebec City is a must. New Brunswick is within reach for sure, with Nova Scotia, PEI and the most Nordic of our provinces Newfoundland maybe little distant. It is often cheaper to fly to Europe than there.

Seeing as you're in Quebec, spending some time in the northern lakes and forests is always worthwhile, both in Ontario and Quebec. Que over Ontario IMHO, just because of the number of people. One of the things about Canada is that unless you're in that southern-eastern Ontario-Quebec area (or the lower mainland of B.C. and the Calgary-Edmonton corridor), there are almost no people. You may be able to get a cheap flight to large city USA, say on Porter, but on student budgets perhaps you'll be on the road. The New England states probably are more reasonable in that case. I do find the border crossings in populated areas to the USA unpredictable. Been across in 25 minutes, and not in 4 hours.

Given you're a student and where you are, I'd recommend finding out who knows someone who has a cabin, probably at a lake, and get there. If you're a skier, you're in luck, and when things melt, you're in luck again. A lot of the countryside will look like Sweden, but no one is there. As my German cousins like to call Canada, "kein na da" (no one there).
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:
@moo:
Thanks for the advice! I've been looking at Megabus and Greyhound generally. I'll be sure to let you know if I'm coming that way! However, I'm afraid you overestimate my knowledge - what is particular about the Virginia Mountains? Bring the sales pitch on!

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quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

@Zach82:
I've been to NYC frequently, but I think I'll give Washington and Boston a chance sometime during the spring. However, my main focus is to see the supposed real America, that I don't think I'll have a good chance of seeing later on. I'm considering the Grand Canyon. I hadn't heard of the Mammoth Caves, but it sounds like the kind of thing I might be up for. I've seen some people mention the Bryce Canyon - does anyone know anything about that?

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Hate to say it, but you can pretty much forget Bryce/Zion/Arches/Monument Valley if you're not willing to fly or drive. It can be done if you're determined, but those parts of Utah are really friggin' remote and spaced out—you'd spend all your time traveling, not enough experiencing.
Remember, the US and Canada are big. I think this map gets the point across nicely. Unless you're willing to spend your whole trip driving—which, while there is a certain mystique to the Great American Road Trip, it involves driving yourself and your friends in your own car—you should probably stay east.

Which isn't to say there's not a lot of Real America™ out east, or even just northeast. Also remember that a fair bit of RA™ is urban, especially nowadays; think about day trips/getting off the bus runarounds for at least a few hours in Baltimore or Philly. Both those cities have a certain character (or, in Bawlmer, it's "charm," hon) that's not to be found elsewhere. There's also something to be said for, say, upstate New York, but you'd be there at entirely the wrong time to experience fall foliage in the mountains. However, if rural is what you're looking for, try anywhere in the Appalachian Mountains or the subranges (Green Mountains, Adirondacks, Catskills, Shenandoah Valley, etc)—maybe even do a day hike on the Appalachian Trail. Of course, I've heard great things about Mille du Lacs in Quebec as well, so you might want to think about that.

I'd recommend staying closer to New England/New York myself, unless you want to make a beeline for DC and work your way back up. That part of the world has its own distinct culture, topography, etc., and some spectacular scenery to boot. Much as I adore the American Southwest, you just don't have time to make it out there and back, much less see anything once you're there.
 

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
Montreal would say that about Ottawa.

Ottawa has the Parliament Buildings (very beautiful), lots of national museums (more collectively than Montreal & Toronto) and some gems like the Diefenbunker, formerly the government's national nuclear survival bunker and now a private museum. A volunteer foundation operates it, it's not a government operation.

Ottawa is a company town and always has been. The Government of Canada is the company. Montreal is a metropolis with a diversified economy, Ottawa really only has one purpose, albeit a very large one. Ottawa doesn't have the nightlife Montreal has and never did. It's smaller, the Company Town means public servants often go elsewhere to go wild rather than start a scandal that will hurt them at the office and Ottawa still clings to its Victorian English Protestant propriety.

Montreal has the best food and the best nightlife in Canada and always has. It's French, it's Catholic and it's always let people get away with more. Ottawa is where Ontario Rural Protestantism begins, four sauces and a thousand religions. Well, five religions but that's four more than Quebeckers generally comprehend aside from the Habs.
 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by HenryT:
Orfeo, switching sides I found pretty easy when I visited the UK. Remember, the car is built other side round. Driver's side toward other traffic.

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Well, my last trip to the US demonstrated that the first challenge is to enter the car on the correct side...

(NB On that trip I was trying to be a passenger. I just spent the first few days constantly walking to get in on the driver's side. )


EDIT: I'm also possibly working off fear brought on by a famous family anecdote about my father trying to kill everybody in around 1972 as he drove off the car ferry in the UK, having spent long enough living in Belgium to have gone right-hand-side-native.

[ 26. February 2013, 03:26: Message edited by: orfeo ]
 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:
You can take the Coast Starlight express down the entire west coast of Washington, Oregon, and California-- seeing some of the most amazingly beautiful parts of all three states. And it's a pretty cool ride, too-- a throwback to the days of elegant adventurous train travel.

Side trips should include a bus excursion to Yosemite-- the jewel of the US nat'l parks. And/or take the ferry out to any of the San Juan (US/Wash) or Gulf islands (Canada/BC), including Victoria on Vancouver Island.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

@jbohn:
Thanks! If I have only a few days to swing by, what in the American SW should I not miss?

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quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

Seattle to Los Angeles on the Coast Starlight takes 35 hours in total.

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quote:

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
This was intended as an ETA, but I took too much time.
At times there are patches within, or adjacent to, large tourist destinations. Example would be Yosemite. Crowded as can be, in the valley main, but a short hike leaves most of the tourists behind.

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quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:
(oh dear, I'm taking over the thread...)

I do enjoy rail a great deal, I've used it in Europe a bit and years back I had a month-long rail pass in the UK. A fine way to travel. So I highly recommend it to my fellow-traveller.

In North America, though, you've got to be really conscious of the sheer distance. There are legs of that kind of trip that will take days. Which is great if that's what you want to do, but it's a choice to just sit back and watch the world roll by.

For the places I'm going, I'm essentially planning to use rail on shorter legs (except if it isn't present, eg there's an inconvenient rail gap between Montreal and New England), but fly the longer ones.

Vancouver to Seattle by rail: 3 or 4 hours (once I understand those weird Amtrak timetables...). Seattle to Portland by rail: 3 or 4 hours.

Portland to San Francisco by rail: appears to be something like 18 hours, which is a pretty major time investment even if I'm (attempting to) sleep through a significant chunk of northern California. Methinks I'll be flying and enjoying a comfortable bed instead.

Seattle to Los Angeles on the Coast Starlight takes 35 hours in total.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
Oh, and jbohn, nice shoutout to Cimarron, NM. I spent a few too many summers at the nearby Scout ranch (and learning to take US 64 at 65 MPH through the twists of Cimarron Canyon—still at least 10 slower than the locals) to let that one go unappreciated.

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I've very fond memories of Philmont myself, Ariston. I learned things there I've carried with me for 20-odd years that can't be learned any other way.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:


EDIT: I'm also possibly working off fear brought on by a famous family anecdote about my father trying to kill everybody in around 1972 as he drove off the car ferry in the UK, having spent long enough living in Belgium to have gone right-hand-side-native.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
the Ashland Shakespeare Festival.

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one of my best friends is their publicist!
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Zach82:
Look at it this way. The San Francisco City Council recently passed a ban on public nudity with just a one vote majority.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Zach82:
Look at it this way. The San Francisco City Council recently passed a ban on public nudity with just a one vote majority.

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All in favour, raise, um, er, ... your hand, yes raise your hand.
 

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