Thread: BBC Class Calculator Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=024678

---

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :
 
Today's Independent talks about there being seven social classes according to a recent LSE study, instead of variants on the usual three.
Apparently this can be measured by answering a few simple questions.

I wonder if any shipmates have done this for fun? (For serious, it might warrant a move to Purgatory)

I attempted to provide a link, but it didn't work. Just type BBC Class Calculator into Google and off you go.
 

---

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
To the delight of this champagne socialist, I came out as "traditional working class".

Aye, 'appen. Now if you'll excuse me I've clinkers to riddle and pots to side.
 

---

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
'Established Middle Class'

I'm not surprised. My Dad always said we were middle class, swapped at birth with landed gentry.


 

---

Posted by Helen-Eva (# 15025) on :
 
I tried playing with that BBC class calculator and I couldn't make it come out anything other than traditional middle or working class using a variety of responses. So I think this idea of seven classes is all a sham and there's only the old three anyway!
 

---

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :
 
Despite being happy, relatively wealthy and well educated (several undergrad degrees and a few postgrad qualifications on top) I am in the Precariat class. If I double my income I make it to Middle class and triple it for Elite. I suspect it is heavily based on how much dough you roll rather than how cultured and socially acceptable you are.
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Technical middle class: I suspect largely because of our rather limited social circle (and the fact thaat the jobs that most of the people that we do know do weren't listed).
 

---

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :
 
It seems to be an assessment of income combined with areas of interest - traditional culture, 'urban' culture etc. And as such an example of thetypical class based stereotypes - a council house bred cleaner interested in Opera is beyond their imagination.
 

---

Posted by Hawk (# 14289) on :
 
My wife did it this morning and we were pretty low on the scale, despite her being a doctor. She suspected it was largely because we still rent, which the calculator seems to think is a useful measure of low class.
 

---

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
And as a Minister I don't figure at all - presumably we "rent" as there's no category for "tied house"!
 

---

Posted by Yorick (# 12169) on :
 
Elite. (Even though I'm poor as shit).
 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
The Sociology paper is interesting, although in common with most papers in that field, it contains too much waffle, and not enough sensible plots.

In response to Bob Two-Owls, membership of the Precariat is completely dominated by financial status. If you rent, don't make much money and don't have much in the way of savings, you get in there whatever.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Avila:
It seems to be an assessment of income combined with areas of interest - traditional culture, 'urban' culture etc. And as such an example of the typical class based stereotypes - a council house bred cleaner interested in Opera is beyond their imagination.

---

No, this isn't true. The survey begins with no preconceptions about what people like or do. It asks people a set of questions - what activities they enjoy, about their financial status and about the people that they know and associate with, and then derives correlations from the data.

So the fact that it tells you that manual workers who rent their homes tend not to go to the theatre and tend not to socialize at home is because, on the whole, they don't. Of course a cleaner living in a council house can enjoy opera, but mostly they don't.

It's worth mentioning that this is a study of what people say that they do, not what they actually do. There is a well-documented tendency of people who think that they should have highbrow tastes reporting what they think they ought to do rather than what they actually do, so to some extent, "I like going to the theatre" includes "I'm an upstanding member of the community and people like me are supposed to enjoy the theatre. I'd better not mention my Sky Sports subscription."
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
The link in case anyone hasn't found it.

Very broad generalisations, on the basis of which I came out as Technical Middle Class. Personally, I like to think of myself as nouveau trash.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Established middle class here with an emergent service worker son.

It might be interesting to see how the longer survey categorises us.
 

---

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Precariat- deprived, that's me. Well, at least going to museums, local classical concerts, and hanging out with professional people from church don't make too much of a dent.
 

---

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
I came out as emergent service worker. Probably quite accurate.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I think the test is all wrong. I also come out as "precariat", which I think is almost entirely based on renting my home (you try buying one round my way ).
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I've now done the longer survey and ended up with 20/100 for cultural capital. Apparently my range of cultural interests is narrower than the average person in the UK.

Although I ticked "no disability" I don't hear normally, which rules out much appreciation of music. So on more detailed examination my "established middle-classness" is eroded by my wonky eardrums.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I came out as 'Established Middle Class' though I suspected that I was on the borderland with technical middle class. The difference being, I suspect, owning my own home.

I suspect I'd have to earn doctor type wages to hit elite.
 

---

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :
 
Established middle class. Wholly because I know a lot of people in a lot of different jobs, because of my combined interests in church and soccer.

Then again, I'm in the United States so that probably skews the whole thing a lot.
 

---

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 
I'm Technical Middle Class, apparently.
 

---

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :
 
I've had a spring in my step all day as I came out as Elite , despite altering the income up and down and trying the test three times.

Naturally I vouch for the test's accuracy. haha
 

---

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Elite, apparently You can tell by the vast wealth, power and influence I wield in the land...
 

---

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
I played around and found that if I kept my social and cultural answers the same (correct for me), and tinkered with the financial issues, I progressed through all but one of the classes, so my answer was almost wholly dependent on earnings/savings/home ownership - ie money. Technical Middle Class was the only one that didn't appear to be purely finance-related.

I suspect that this is because in both the cultural and social categories I ticked boxes from what might be seen as the top and the bottom. As someone else has said, it seems to be unable to cope with people who embrace supposed extremes - socialising with university lecturers and shop assistants, going to gigs and visiting museums. From the descriptions, Technical Middle Class is dependent on having a similar social group and not engaging in highbrow activities.

Thus if you have a wide range of interests and friends you will be classified solely according to your finances. As far as I am concerned that makes it fatally flawed.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
I came out as 'Established Middle Class' though I suspected that I was on the borderland with technical middle class. The difference being, I suspect, owning my own home.

I suspect I'd have to earn doctor type wages to hit elite.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
I tried playing with that BBC class calculator and I couldn't make it come out anything other than traditional middle or working class using a variety of responses. So I think this idea of seven classes is all a sham and there's only the old three anyway!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yorick:
Elite. (Even though I'm poor as shit).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
I do not like their labelling the top group with the word "elite". Unlike the others, which are value free descriptors, this, like "aristocracy" carries the idea of "best", which I would dispute - and have emailed the Beeb via Today and World at One to do. I couldn't find a contact method in the main web page about the thing.

---

You mean education, a good standard of living, being financially solvent to the extent that you don't have to worry about money, and having a good social circle aren't desirable things?
 

---

Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :
 
I am Emergent Services - whatever that means. Basically because I have no savings (yet) and rent my little bit of space. I've been working 18 months now though so who knows I might shift up one in the next few decades.
 

---

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
I came up as "New affluent workers".

Pretty funny, huh? The affluent description would make most of my friends laugh hysterically! And I'm old(er). So I figure it's because the bank and I own my home, and over the (many) years of working I have some savings...not enough to save my skin, however.

Oh, and I know someone in almost all the categories listed. So, my life circumstances seem to skew everything!
 

---

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Penny S:
I do not like their labelling the top group with the word "elite". Unlike the others, which are value free descriptors, this, like "aristocracy" carries the idea of "best", which I would dispute - and have emailed the Beeb via Today and World at One to do. I couldn't find a contact method in the main web page about the thing.

---

You mean education, a good standard of living, being financially solvent to the extent that you don't have to worry about money, and having a good social circle aren't desirable things?

---

No-one seems to object to a sporting elite or premier league to describe the eminience of their football team.


Proudly Elite. (but I'd prefer 'aristocrat')
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
When considering if you are wealthy, you might want to look at this. If you earn over £26,000, you are officially above average for income.
 

---

Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :
 
I'm a new affluent worker too. Flattered to be described as young and active!
 

---

Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :
 
Interesting that the money questions are based on income and savings without taking expenses into account (unless owning versus renting assumes different expenses).

In the US you would have to take health care costs and educational costs much more seriously to get a picture of how well off someone really is. Plenty of people have a decent income which is eaten up by health insurance and student loans.
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Right. By adding "listening to classical music" to my interests I am now in "established middle class". Suddenly I'm no longer young and short of money. This is clearly one of the benefits of listening to classical music, you age overnight but your disposable income doubles.

[ 03. April 2013, 20:43: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 

---

Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :
 
I have tumbled straight from 'social class 1' to 'traditional working class'. Oh dear!
 

---

Posted by hilaryg (# 11690) on :
 
I'm "established middle class" - I can see how that would come about as I have some savings, I like a variety of cultural events and I know different types of people, mainly thanks to people I know from church.

I'm not entirely convinced this kind of categorisation (financial capital, social capital, cultural capital) would replace most British people's idea of class though. No matter what kind of terms you would use to describe them, the majority of people (unfortunately) would describe some kind of ladder with ranking of educational achievements, career achievements and family background. Financial ranking still comes down relatively low on the list of judging who has class - compare the stereotypes of an impoverished titled family vs nouveau riche.

Plus, I think how you treat others still matters. My parents will refer to people who "might have done alright for themselves, but still have no class", usually in reference to those who have no manners. I mean in doing unto others etc, not how they hold their knives and forks!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I'm an Emergent Service Worker but I move into the Technical Middle Class if I get a mortgage rather than rent my home.

[ 03. April 2013, 21:34: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

---

Posted by Japes (# 5358) on :
 
I have a wide age of interests, and a wide variety of friends, but it's the low income and renting that is keeping me solidly in the "Precariat" section.

I'm happy with that, though!
 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
Do all note that the analysis done by Savage et al. discovers that people's answers to the set of questions tend to fall in to one of 7 clusters, and that the descriptors ("Elite", "Precariat" etc.) are just labels attached to those clusters.

In terms of "culture", which many people are discussing, the data shows that people's behaviour decomposes quite nicely into a two-dimensional distribution, with the first axis being, more or less, "cultural engagement" - ie. how much and how often you do stuff - be it go to gigs, the opera or whatever, and the second axis being highbrow vs lowbrow.

They find that the first axis correlates with employment (people who have never worked, or who do routine labour don't do much "cultural stuff", whereas professionals do quite a bit). The second axis correlates almost exactly with age. The older you are, the more likely you are to go to the theatre, museums and to dislike pop music, and the less likely you are to watch or play sport, go to the gym, like rap music or Indian food.

Retired people kick sharply over into the "culturally disengaged" direction: they like traditional, "old fogie" activities, but don't do them very much.

Antisocial Alto: This is a categorization exercise, not an attempt to determine precise financial standing. Whilst you're right that education and healthcare costs have a big effect on your finances in the US for people with the same income (and a rather smaller one in the UK), those distinctions are almost certainly accommodated by the house value and household savings variables. People who are paying off big college loans tend not to own expensive houses and have large savings. So I think the analysis could be applied to a US dataset without modification, and it would do OK.

The only real assumption that goes into this analysis is that it scores the social status of the people you know according to CAMSIS scores, so it assumes something about the social hierarchy embedded in those scores. However, as the CAMSIS scores themselves are driven by data on how people actually interact socially, this is unlikely to be terribly wrong.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I came out as 'traditional middle class', which is clearly an egregious error.

A load of poppycock IMNSHO.

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I think the test is all wrong. I also come out as "precariat", which I think is almost entirely based on renting my home (you try buying one round my way ).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hilaryg:
Plus, I think how you treat others still matters. My parents will refer to people who "might have done alright for themselves, but still have no class", usually in reference to those who have no manners. I mean in doing unto others etc, not how they hold their knives and forks!

---

Equating how one holds a knife and fork has implications - and relevance as to both cultural style as well as 'class'. Mind you, from my experience, that would leave most Americans out in the cold. I've never been able to work out why so many Americans cut their food with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right - THEN setting down the knife, change the fork to the right hand and hoe into the cut-up food. Any suggestions?

I mean, these people wonder why they are a slipping world power!
 

---

Posted by Emendator Liturgia (# 17245) on :
 
BTW - I came out as 'Elite' - yeah, right!

As per other posts, this 'survey' is so skewed it is laughable - maybe it is just meant to be funny?
 

---

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:

quote:

---

Originally posted by hilaryg:
Plus, I think how you treat others still matters. My parents will refer to people who "might have done alright for themselves, but still have no class", usually in reference to those who have no manners. I mean in doing unto others etc, not how they hold their knives and forks!

---

Equating how one holds a knife and fork has implications - and relevance as to both cultural style as well as 'class'. Mind you, from my experience, that would leave most Americans out in the cold. I've never been able to work out why so many Americans cut their food with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right - THEN setting down the knife, change the fork to the right hand and hoe into the cut-up food. Any suggestions?

---

Cuz that's the way we wuz teached? I can figure out why yours is a better system for eating food you can stab. But the fork in the dominant hand tines up is sooo much easier for food that you scoop.

I've thought about practicing using flatware the European way if I ever go ther. But, no, I tell myself. These folks are gracious enough to welcome me to their shores. The least I can do is amuse them and make them feel superior.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'm Established Middle Class, which is more-or-less what I'd have expected. I remember an education lecturer at college asking us to identify which social class we were, and no-one would admit to being anything other than working-class. IIRC I didn't identify as being anything, because where I grew up there was only one school, which catered equally for the children of all sorts and conditions of men (except the seriously rich, who sent their children to boarding-school), leaving me with very little "class" identity.

My friends roundly castigated me afterwards for not admitting to being middle-class ("your father's the director of education, of course you're bloody middle-class"). I'd truly never thought of it before that, although these days I'm quite content with the "middle-class" label.
 

---

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :
 
Wrong country, but I come out "Elite", which I knew because of similar tests from Canada. Financial security and freedom are part of it, but the economic and social freedom from a place with few people, unsettled and open land, make more of a difference. I could never be happy in the crowds.

A difference here, is that until about age 30 we lived in poverty due to lengthy period of education. It is possible for anyone to 'make it' here. No titles, no old money, and clear sense that no-one's better than anyone else. Our neighbours are construction workers, teachers, postal workers, store clerks. Our kids went to school together, and we have them over, even though we're "university types".

[ 04. April 2013, 03:07: Message edited by: no prophet ]
 

---

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
I can figure out why yours is a better system for eating food you can stab. But the fork in the dominant hand tines up is sooo much easier for food that you scoop.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
I can figure out why yours is a better system for eating food you can stab. But the fork in the dominant hand tines up is sooo much easier for food that you scoop.

---

Oh, Lyda*Rose. You're not supposed to scoop food with your fork. It's not a shovel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Emendator Liturgia:
I've never been able to work out why so many Americans cut their food with the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right - THEN setting down the knife, change the fork to the right hand and hoe into the cut-up food. Any suggestions?

---

Not just Americans by any means.

My theory is that they can eat much quicker that way. This topic is worth a thread if its own!
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Hmmmmm....if my parents went under a bus tomorrow and we inherited, that would put us into the elite.

Happily, my father at least has long-living genes and we should be established middle class for a good few years yet, God willing, (or forever, if everything goes in care home costs!).

How does the variation in house price between areas skew things?

[ 04. April 2013, 08:15: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
 

---

Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I came out as Precariat, mainly, I assumed, because 'rented' accommodation was as close as I could get to the Manse. My going to the theatre, listening to classical music, and being friends with university lecturers made no difference whatsoever. I adjusted it to say that I owned my own home, and all that happened was that I moved up a couple of levels to 'Traditional Working Class'.

I find it strange that the survey is so money/property based, and takes no account at all of education. I also think that it is flawed in making no adjustments for single people, or people without dependents. My wage is perfectly decent, and more than enough to give me a comfortable lifestyle, given that I have no children to support. But it is only one wage, so I go down as a one-wage household. Meanwhile, a two-wage household with children, even though they might have considerably less disposable income than me, would rate a lot higher.
 

---

Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :
 
This now 'traditional working class' individual has family portraits and taxidermy ( taxidermy by the family, not of the family... ), and has inherited Royal Doulton and enough silver to throw a modest dinner. But I'm retired, so suddenly I've joined a new underclass!

(I always did find it funny that being an Anglican incumbent conferred automatic upper class status..... enabling one to rocket past Lord Lichfield, who was only a photographer... )
 

---

Posted by The Intrepid Mrs S (# 17002) on :
 
I did it and came out as 'Elite' (natch!)

Mr. S did it and came out as 'traditional working class'. I can only think he forgot to add his pension pot into the money box, as we share the house and (most) friends, activities, etc etc.

Mrs. S, who married beneath her
 

---

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :
 
Precariat. I know I'm a graduate student and all, but I've never thought my life overburdened with privation.

Even if I score myself according to my expected income after marriage and graduation, I'm still precariat.
 

---

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :
 
It's all a bit of fun. But as clergy (above) you are traditionally gentry of course. In other words good family, sound and classical education (but probably not too much as that would be vulgar), confident and a born leader with presence when you enter a room.
 

---

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Established middle class

Larfing so hard I am almost choking. Me da were a labourer, he were, an' me ma stayed 'ome.
 

---

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Indeed, Sebby. Perhaps what I understand to be the (RN) naval chaplain model might be usefully applied across the clergy more widely: decent education, officer material, but taking the rank of the company that you are in at any given time.

[ 04. April 2013, 11:29: Message edited by: Albertus ]
 

---

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :
 
What an excellent model Albertus.
 

---

Posted by Amika (# 15785) on :
 
Even with lots of cultural interests and lots of friends from different 'groups' I still came out Precariat when I doubled my real income. Only changing renting to owning altered me to 'new affluent workers' with the false income. I'm not sure renting is really a good measure of how precarious our lives are. Renting in itself can even be a good thing - no repair costs to worry about at least!
 

---

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oferyas:
1. I always did find it funny that being an Anglican incumbent conferred automatic upper class status

2. .. enabling one to rocket past Lord Lichfield, who was only a photographer

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sebby:
It's all a bit of fun. But as clergy (above) you are traditionally gentry of course. In other words good family, sound and classical education (but probably not too much as that would be vulgar), confident and a born leader with presence when you enter a room.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ExclamationMark:

quote:

---

Originally posted by sebby:
It's all a bit of fun. But as clergy (above) you are traditionally gentry of course. In other words good family, sound and classical education (but probably not too much as that would be vulgar), confident and a born leader with presence when you enter a room.

---

A lovely fantasy - most clergy were pretty thick - the second and subsequent offspring of interbred families, who couldn't get a job anywhere else. In rural areas many of them were positively dangerous! They certainly had a presence I agree - so far up themselves that they'd almost disappeared. Many were vulgar in their lack of engagement with the poorer people in their parishes: the type has not yet disappeared.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by sebby:
Were the village to be honoured by Lord Litchfield, a nobleman gone into trade, the squire would of course ignore this faux pas and regard his Lordship as a noble and eccentric modern portrait painter.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
I got Emergent Service Worker. Nice it thinks I'm still young! Guess that's about right.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:

They couldn't conceive that a graduate who rented and was on a low income could be middle-aged.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
I did but it doesn't actually give you a neat little label like the mini-questionnaire. It calculates a score for you in each of the three areas; economic, social and cultural.

I got 60% economic, 85% social and 95% cultural. I think listening to radio 3, radio 4 and going to the ballet occasionally helped.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cottontail:
I came out as Precariat, mainly, I assumed, because 'rented' accommodation was as close as I could get to the Manse. My going to the theatre, listening to classical music, and being friends with university lecturers made no difference whatsoever.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
"800 years from aristocracy to the precariate!".

---

Sounds like a pretty gradual decline to me; lucky you managed to spin it out that long.

The only fall from high estate in my family is from farmhouse to cottage - engineered by my great-grandfather with the help of the Dhrink and the Horses. My forebears on both sides and in all directions were wall-to-wall Irish peasantry.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I emerge as Precariat, which surprises me in a way.

Anyway there are only three classes:

- Aristocracy [destined to lined up against the wall]

- Bourgeoisie [destined for re-education]

- Proletariat [destined for great things]


 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Yeah, why can't I be a prole?
 

---

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by sebby:
[QUOTE] Thankfully.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
The Sociology paper doesn't contain enough information to map this on to one of their 7 classes, but making some reasonable guesses, this would probably put you into the poor end of "Established Middle Class". With a lower score on the social and cultural scales, you'd go somewhere else.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by comet:
I'm a new affluent worker.

affluent? I'm on the bottom rung of the money tree.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
our attendance at a village parish church, which gives us a wider social circle.

---

© Ship of Fools 2016


UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0