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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What to look for in an alb
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I assume that the MI in your address is Missouri, and I know that summers there are hot and sticky. Avoid synthetics and synthetic blends like the plague. They increase the heat and stickiness greatly. They may be easy enough to wash and may not need ironing, but cotton, linen, or best of all lightweight wool are best. In winter, you can always out more on underneath but make sure that it does not show. I would also avoid lace, or anything else which may draw attention to you. You are there as a server, and servers should be invisible.
MI is Michigan, Gee D; Missouri is MO.
I believe PentEcclesiastic lives in the Detroit area, and thus in the Great Lakes region, which is famous for hot and sticky summers as well. Not to mention cold and icy winters. In fact, there's about 2 months of nice weather in all the year there, and if the weather had only been better I'd probably never have left Ann Arbor. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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LostinChelsea
Shipmate
# 5305
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Posted
MI actually means Michigan, where it also gets hot.
The generic seminarian's alb -- which means inexpensive and at least in approximation to what others in the place are wearing -- usually means something like this.
It's cool, it's cheap. I've worn one like this for years. It's what most Episcopalians think of as an alb. The traditional alb (pullover, lots of gathers, worn with an amice) will make you stick out as traditionalist of high church tendencies -- which is great if that's what you are.
The very best thing to do is to ask at your parish and they'll point you in the right direction. Good luck!
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Best when taken in moderation.
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LostinChelsea:
MI actually means Michigan, where it also gets hot.
The generic seminarian's alb -- which means inexpensive and at least in approximation to what others in the place are wearing -- usually means something like this.
That's not an alb. I will make no further comment about its merits, but it is most assuredly not an alb, nor does its manufacturer claim that it is one.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
Excuse me, (S)pike Couchant, did you happen to read this?
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
Let's rein in the sniping, shall we? (S)pike Couchant - I'm looking at you. It would be a work of charity if this thread could result in advice which would be of use to PentEcclesiastic.
seasick, Eccles host
I suggest you mark and inwardly digest it as well, lest you attract Adminly attention.
Mamacita, Eccles Host
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
Posts: 20761 | From: where the purple line ends | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mamacita
Lakefront liberal
# 3659
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PentEcclesiastic:
In a couple of weeks, I will begin interning at a local episcopal church while here in seminary. The rector told me that I'd be needing an alb. What are things I need to look for? I'm not an average proportioned male, so would it make sense to have one customer as opposed to using a stock alb? Fabrics? Colors? Any help would be useful as I don't want to offend anyone.
I very excited, because I'll be a Pentecostal moonlighting as an Anglican for about 9 months. Wish me luck!
PentEcclesiastic, I wish you the very best in your new assignment!
Obviously you've stumbled, through no fault of your own, into some pond differences and some differences in churchmanship that make the Episcopal Church and C of E such interesting and occasionally confounding places. I would suggest you check back with your supervising priest to get absolutely clear on the style of alb that is customary in this parish. My bet is that he is referring to what is also called a cassock-alb, which many clergy and regular folks in mainline denominations in the US just refer to (correctly or not) as an alb. It isn't a matter of what others think is liturgically correct -- which we're apparently going to bicker about in Ecclesiantics until the parousia -- but about what is viewed as appropriate within the parish you are going to serve.
[ 23. August 2012, 23:15: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
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Do not be daunted by the enormity of the world’s grief. Do justly, now. Love mercy, now. Walk humbly, now. You are not obligated to complete the work, but neither are you free to abandon it.
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PentEcclesiastic
Shipmate
# 12098
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Posted
Very good, Mamacita. I definitely didn't know there was a difference, so I will ask what is acceptable. I just didn't want to get stuck in one at was clearly sized for children because of my height. When I find out what's acceptable, these links may come in handy. He did say anything about apparels, but he did mention a cincture rope. I thought he was joking.
And thanks everyone for reminding me to update my demographic information...
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We are called to be Holy.
Posts: 186 | From: Atlanta, Georgia | Registered: Nov 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
For the record, I like Almy's rope cinctures better than Gaspard's. I think they just look better. White is always appropriate, but you can also get them in the appropriate color for the season.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Mamcita opines:
I would suggest you check back with your supervising priest to get absolutely clear on the style of alb that is customary in this parish. My bet is that he is referring to what is also called a cassock-alb, which many clergy and regular folks in mainline denominations in the US just refer to (correctly or not) as an alb. It isn't a matter of what others think is liturgically correct...but about what is viewed as appropriate within the parish you are going to serve.
This, entirely this, and nothing but this.
Everything else is a flea fart in a hurricane.
Ya do what's customary for the house. If they wear apparels on their tutus, then you get an apparelled tutu.
As the seminarian, what you wear is the last thing you want people talking about. You want to fit in; you don't want to be the nail sticking up that needs to be hammered down.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PentEcclesiastic:
Greetings shipmates.
In a couple of weeks, I will begin interning at a local episcopal church while here in seminary. The rector told me that I'd be needing an alb. What are things I need to look for?
Since you only have a couple of weeks lead time, don't "want to offend," and are new to all this, send for the American standard, the CM Almy cassock-alb in pure white, no frills, with standing collar in 60/40 cotton-poly. It's machine washable and dryer safe. Make sure you get one long enough to touch the tops of your shoes. With the alb get a white rope waist cord called a cincture to go with it. The whole rig will cost you $130 delivered.
CM Almy Quik Ship Mostly Cotton Cassock-Alb
CM Almy white cotton rope cincture
Don't listen to other suggestions that involve church vestment complexity beyond you, more money or slower delivery times. Get the American basic cassock-alb from Almy's and get going.
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Thank you all for your advice on abbreviations - now tucked away in a corner of the brain. It's a lot easier with only 6 stats and 2 territories to remember.
As I recall Michigan summers, they are as hot as Missouri, and even stickier. I'd always keep away from synthetic, but I suppose that you will not be wearing it for long at any one time. If the Almy is the standard US wear, it looks a good buy. And you can never go wrong with a white cincture. If your rector wishes to change colour with liturgical seasons, there are almost certainly spares in the vestry.
Good luck and I hope you enjoy the change from your experience to date.
[ 24. August 2012, 08:20: Message edited by: Gee D ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by (S)pike couchant:
Here are two promising sources. Unfortunately, good albs don't come cheap. I'd buy a used one, if I were you.
Forgive digression _ have you seen the associated LOOME theological book supplies? Just so amusing and interesting. It's on the same link above the photograph of St Josemaria.
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sebhyatt
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I wonder why the parish doesn't provide robing for assisting persons in the sanctuary.
I can see why an ordained minister can have her/his own alb. But if you're part of a sanctuary party, then you will all be dressed consistently.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I would just add that a cassock alb looks better without a girdle, but a conventional alb looks silly without one.
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sebhyatt
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
I would also check out what colour the garment is meant to be in your new church as they are available in white or cream. I didn't realise the wide variety of styles available until I came to buy one so I checked out what the altar party wears and aimed to blend in. Washability and pockets for a radio mike were practical considerations. As I am very short I got a double breasted cassock alb which may send the purists into tat shock but it works very well for someone of petite build. Most of the unfitted cassock albs swamped me entirely.
[ 24. August 2012, 11:02: Message edited by: Poppy ]
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
My advice would be to check the width of the sleeves. Many cassock-albs have very wide sleeves and I find they can be an annoyance at the altar. In one of the seminaries where I spent time, it was the practise that a student would serve as deacon at the Eucharist and I remember serving as such for one fairly large service with many guests (we were in Atlanta and it was for Martin Luther King Day) - I spent a lot of the offertory being worried that my sleeves would pull over a chalice or flagon. I've recently invested in a cassock-alb and asked specially for it to be made with narrow sleeves. I only had a traditional one before, which I still prefer but for a day like today where I was presiding at a funeral in the crematorium and then going straight on to a meeting elsewhere, the cassock-alb certainly makes life more convenient.
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
I thought vestments etc were supposed to be made from pure natural fibers, regardless of style. Albs being both unbleached and undyed - symbolic of purity or some such.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Thirty years ago I bought a Franciscan style Alb from Blue Cloud Abbey in South Dakota. It has been a great Alb. Unfortunately I just discovered the Abbey in now closed. Bummer.
My son is going into seminary in a year and I had hoped to purchase one for him.
Now I will have to look for another source.
BTW: The Alb is actually an undergarment. It is not to be worn over a cassock. I think you are thinking of a surplus. You don't see them much anymore in the American Church.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
No they are not. Look at the links at the start of the thread and you will see that there are albs that go over a cassock. What you are talking about are technically called cassock-albs, which combine the cassock and the alb into one. In the US these are often shorted to alb.
I got all that from long experience here and reading this thread.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
BTW: The Alb is actually an undergarment. It is not to be worn over a cassock. I think you are thinking of a surplus. You don't see them much anymore in the American Church.
What has historically been referred to as an alb is a garment that goes over the cassock (and generally under eucharistic vestments). It is generally fairly thin and is therefore partially transparent and so unsuitable for wearing over street clothes without a cassock. Furthermore, the neckline generally necessitates the wearing of an amice.
True albs are now fairly rare. More common is the cassock-alb, a hybrid garment that doesn't need a cassock underneath (though my personal opinion is that they still look better with a cassock). This is the garment referred to by Gramps49: it is frequently referred to simply as an alb, particularly as cassock-albs have become dominant and true albs relatively rare.
(A surplice is something different entirely, and is a term that covers a multitude of sins: the only general truths are that they are white and tend to be shorter than ankle length – anywhere from mid-calf to waist length.)
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I wonder why the parish doesn't provide robing for assisting persons in the sanctuary. I can see why an ordained minister can have her/his own alb. But if you're part of a sanctuary party, then you will all be dressed consistently.
Part of the issue, Venbede, is liekly two-fold:
a) the first is financial: to have enough right-fitting albs for everyone would be a large expense if you want to do it right (as in the alb coming to the top of the shoe): consider the number of people to robe, the number of services, the range of heights, girths, neck size etc., and the differing needs/fits of men and women.
b) the second is practical: a number of servers I've known have preferred to have their own, based on parish requirements, as that means they always have one that fits, they can take it home and keep it washed and ironed (in summer that is every week, as has been mentioned by others with regards to regions in the US), and that they don't have to wear a parish stock one that has not been wahed and ironed in ages, or has been worn at one service immediately prior to the one they are assisting at and has a residual ordour not just of the incense but of the sweating person who had already worn it. PHEW!
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Don't judge all Anglicans in Sydney by prevailing Diocesan standards!
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I wonder why the parish doesn't provide robing for assisting persons in the sanctuary.
I can see why an ordained minister can have her/his own alb. But if you're part of a sanctuary party, then you will all be dressed consistently.
It's very much the usual thing in America for a beginning seminarian to buy a good, reasonably priced clergy alb or cassock alb & cincture, thus avoiding pot luck and perhaps ill fitting church wardrobe garments. In addition, many seminarians are required or prefer to buy a cassock and surplice. This stuff is seen as part of the basic equipment for a seminarian's manditory parish field work assignments.
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
BTW: The Alb is actually an undergarment. It is not to be worn over a cassock. I think you are thinking of a surplus. You don't see them much anymore in the American Church.
1. I don't know where you got the information that an alb is not to be worn over a cassock because that is patently not been so for at least the last 5-600 years. The alb may be worn over street clothes without the cassock, but we are far removed from using the alb as underwear next to our skin-we devoutly hope. I think you may have construed hearing of the alb as an undergarment for the cope, chasuble, dalmatics and tunicle. But it is perfectly OK to wear a cassock with all of that.
2. The surplice was anciently derived from the alb. It's just an alb with very big sleeves. The surplice gradually became somewhat shortened, but it too can be, and most often is nowadays worn over the cassock. Perhaps not where you live, but the surplice is very much in evidence and worn universally throughout the Episcopal Church in America, especially for ceremonial occasions other than the Eucharist.
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Actually the garment that I have is a true alb, not a cassock alb, though that seems to be what most vestment supply companies are selling these days.
When I started seminary I did have a black cassock with surplice and I wore it for just a couple of years, then went to a basic alb. When I was ordained I purchased the Franciscan Alb.
I don't think Lutheran seminaries require a black cassock with surplice anymore.
But I know we are talking about an Episcopalian seminarian here.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
I strongly prefer a real alb to a cassock-alb. They are thin, cool (all senses) and if you wear them with an amice and hang them up after a service they can last a few weeks without washing and ironing. They can never be too big, because you can bind them up with your girdle.
Cassock-albs are very expensive and I can't trust myself in one because of their their huge sleeves. To me, the fake hoods on them seem very inauthentic, especially when worn with other inauthentic sales ploys like "liturgically correct" girdles worn "Franciscan style."
But they are ubiquitous in mainline Protestant circles and have been for so long, and so ecumenical-Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopal--most parishes have forgotten how recent and commercial they really are.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Actually, Mama Thomas, the Alb goes way back to the first century of the church. You can even see drawings of priests wearing albs in the catacombs of Rome from the first century. Cassocks came a little later, around the fourth century. They did not become mandatory dress until the 13th century.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
... Cassock-albs are very expensive and I can't trust myself in one because of their their huge sleeves. To me, the fake hoods on them seem very inauthentic, especially when worn with other inauthentic sales ploys like "liturgically correct" girdles worn "Franciscan style" ...
On the contrary, well made, very reasonably priced cassock-albs can be found at CM Almy, for instance. They are made with regular sized alb sleeves, hoods or no hoods, by preference, and can be paired with any type of cincture (girdle) desired.
These cassock-albs are ready made and stocked or made to measure in a variety of sizes in a range of fabrics and even with a spare amount of trimming if you wish. The stocked cassock alb sizes come in a range of fabrics that are ready for 'QuikShip' delivery.
Have a look.
CM Almy cassock-albs for men
CM Almy cassock-albs for women
Almy also makes the traditional (non-cassock) alb.
BTW, I don't work for Almy, and I have no personal interest in the business except as one of their satisfied customers. I have one of theirstock 60/40 cotton poly cassock-albs with a regular non-hooded standing collar that has seen years of use. You can run that alb through your regular home washer and dryer and it comes out looking great every time. No amice is needed, either, just the white rope cincture which is also washable.
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Actually, Mama Thomas, the Alb goes way back to the first century of the church. You can even see drawings of priests wearing albs in the catacombs of Rome from the first century. Cassocks came a little later, around the fourth century. They did not become mandatory dress until the 13th century.
The alb, yes. I've even dresses baptismal candidates in them and dunked them in rivers, and had them kneel in huge basins. The alb is ancient and comely and a powerful symbol of being washed in the blood of the Lamb. I love it, but not the blindingly white cassock-alb, which is loved, universal and ecumenical, or the pseudo-monkish oaten coloured whatever it's called.
Even so, it is not for me. I still prefer the cassock and surplice, (classic) or amice, alb, and and white girdle tied the way traditional for Mass.
I still feel the cassock-alb is too contrived and commercial. That's just me though. If I didn't have full euchies, I'd go with cassock and surplice instead of the cassock-alb.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Rob:
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
... Cassock-albs are very expensive and I can't trust myself in one because of their their huge sleeves. To me, the fake hoods on them seem very inauthentic, especially when worn with other inauthentic sales ploys like "liturgically correct" girdles worn "Franciscan style" ...
On the contrary, well made, very reasonably priced cassock-albs can be found at CM Almy, for instance. They are made with regular sized alb sleeves, hoods or no hoods, by preference, and can be paired with any type of cincture (girdle) desired.
These cassock-albs are ready made and stocked or made to measure in a variety of sizes in a range of fabrics and even with a spare amount of trimming if you wish. The stocked cassock alb sizes come in a range of fabrics that are ready for 'QuikShip' delivery.
Have a look.
CM Almy cassock-albs for men
CM Almy cassock-albs for women
Almy also makes the traditional (non-cassock) alb.
BTW, I don't work for Almy, and I have no personal interest in the business except as one of their satisfied customers. I have one of theirstock 60/40 cotton poly cassock-albs with a regular non-hooded standing collar that has seen years of use. You can run that alb through your regular home washer and dryer and it comes out looking great every time. No amice is needed, either, just the white rope cincture which is also washable.
*
Sorry for the double post, but that's part of the reason I dislike them. A real alb and girdle is almost "one size fits all.". A priest or parish needn't spend so much money on them. If it's too long, just pull it up around the girdle, which if tied traditionally, holds the crossed stole perfectly (not that the congregation should necessarily see the stole).
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
BTW: The Alb is actually an undergarment. It is not to be worn over a cassock. I think you are thinking of a surplus. You don't see them much anymore in the American Church.
I'm not sure about that, Gramps49; the surplice (as a liturgical garment) looks awfully like a modified/abbreviated alb to me, and seems to serve the same function.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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(S)pike couchant
Shipmate
# 17199
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
BTW: The Alb is actually an undergarment. It is not to be worn over a cassock. I think you are thinking of a surplus. You don't see them much anymore in the American Church.
I'm not sure about that, Gramps49; the surplice (as a liturgical garment) looks awfully like a modified/abbreviated alb to me, and seems to serve the same function.
There's no question about it: they are different developments of the same garment. The surplice is simply an alb designed to be easily slipped on and off.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
The vicar in my home village used to sling on a chasable over a surplice. It never looked quite right though.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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PentEcclesiastic
Shipmate
# 12098
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Posted
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by PentEcclesiastic:
In a couple of weeks, I will begin interning at a local episcopal church while here in seminary. The rector told me that I'd be needing an alb. What are things I need to look for? I'm not an average proportioned male, so would it make sense to have one customer as opposed to using a stock alb? Fabrics? Colors? Any help would be useful as I don't want to offend anyone.
I very excited, because I'll be a Pentecostal moonlighting as an Anglican for about 9 months. Wish me luck!
PentEcclesiastic, I wish you the very best in your new assignment!
Obviously you've stumbled, through no fault of your own, into some pond differences and some differences in churchmanship that make the Episcopal Church and C of E such interesting and occasionally confounding places. I would suggest you check back with your supervising priest to get absolutely clear on the style of alb that is customary in this parish. My bet is that he is referring to what is also called a cassock-alb, which many clergy and regular folks in mainline denominations in the US just refer to (correctly or not) as an alb. It isn't a matter of what others think is liturgically correct -- which we're apparently going to bicker about in Ecclesiantics until the parousia -- but about what is viewed as appropriate within the parish you are going to serve.
[ 23. August 2012, 23:15: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
I didn't know that this thread would explode the way it did. It's been very intriguing. My supervising priest told me that Anglican may not always fight over theology, but the guns will come out when it comes to liturgy. I'm guessing he was right.
I did ask him, and briefed him about some of the things mentioned here. He told me that he suggested a cassock-alb, but wasn't the person to really give advice on this kind of thing. So, he threw me to the wolves on the Worship Committee.
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We are called to be Holy.
Posts: 186 | From: Atlanta, Georgia | Registered: Nov 2006
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Mr. Rob
Shipmate
# 5823
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PentEcclesiastic:
quote:
My bet is that he is referring to what is also called a cassock-alb, which many clergy and regular folks in mainline denominations in the US just refer to (correctly or not) as an alb ...
I did ask him, and briefed him about some of the things mentioned here. He told me that he suggested a cassock-alb, but wasn't the person to really give advice on this kind of thing. So, he threw me to the wolves on the Worship Committee.
Well DON'T go asking a worship committee. You will be bothering them with something beyond their level of expertise. Just buy a plain, white, Almy, cassock alb for starters and be done with this.
As to this British-American alb or cassock-alb nonsense, don't be misled. As an American (Pentecostal) seminary intern of a sort, get the basic, usable, inexpensive liturgical garment that Episcopalians call an alb, but which really is a cassock-alb. Just do it, and to hell with worship committees.
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Posts: 862 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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PentEcclesiastic
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# 12098
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Posted
Update: it's been decided that I will be trained as a Eucharistic Minister and will be wearing a cassock and a surplice. I was taken to the vesting room to find a cassock I could fit. When they got through with me, I looked like a kid playing dress up. Sleeves too short and the surplice looked huge. I looked frumpy.
Pentecostals, at least in my neck of the woods, know things about cassocks. We do actually get a lot of mileage out of those. But they're not thin and flimsy they way the one I tried on was. So I guess I'm in the market for one, seeing that I probably will wear a cassock after seminary.
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We are called to be Holy.
Posts: 186 | From: Atlanta, Georgia | Registered: Nov 2006
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venbede
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# 16669
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Posted
When I was serving, there was always a silly five minutes going through the cupboard to find a cassock that could fit.
I found one that did, and put it on a hanger with my name on it.
I was quite unreasonably cross whenever I found it had been moved and was not available.
A cassock, like a good suit, ought to fit (although it will in part be covered by the surplice). As Mama Thomas says, an old fashioned alb can be adjusted in length by the girdle, which is always the critical dimension.
Any rate good luck, penty.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Mama Thomas
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# 10170
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PentEcclesiastic:
Update: it's been decided that I will be trained as a Eucharistic Minister and will be wearing a cassock and a surplice. I was taken to the vesting room to find a cassock I could fit. When they got through with me, I looked like a kid playing dress up. Sleeves too short and the surplice looked huge. I looked frumpy.
Pentecostals, at least in my neck of the woods, know things about cassocks. We do actually get a lot of mileage out of those. But they're not thin and flimsy they way the one I tried on was. So I guess I'm in the market for one, seeing that I probably will wear a cassock after seminary.
A much more attractive choice and one that has tradition behind it. Be sure to post a pic somewhere!
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Angloid
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# 159
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Posted
It depends on the surplice. Those skimpy ones that are less than knee-length, with sleeves that neither drape properly nor stay tucked out of the way, are horrible IMHO. Either a full-length Old English version (which are incredibly expensive, which is why I've not got one), or a decent (ie non-lacy) cotta, or an alb – cassock or otherwise. Please!
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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sebby
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# 15147
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Posted
A clerical friend has considered a slight extravagence: treating himself to having a silk alb made. A number of us have been offering a little advice as to what style this should be, although in no doubt that our opinions will go very far with him.
I suppose it ought to be the traditional shape suitable to be worn with an amice under a chasable with a girdle. However if the silk is thick enough it might be possible to wear it without a cassock.
What style should it be?
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Amos
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# 44
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Posted
Why on earth does he want a silk alb?
The whole principle of an alb is that it's supposed to be clean and white. So the best albs are made of fine linen and kept laundered and ironed. The same is true of surplices, which is why the problem with the Wareham Guild surplice is not the initial cost but the hugely time-consuming ironing.
An alb isn't supposed to be shiny nor to draw attention to itself.
Get your friend a few sets of silk underwear in liturgical colours and tell him to stick to a proper alb in linen or cotton. Or point him in the direction of one of those Easter season albs which are 'lace from the paps down.'
[ 02. September 2012, 19:54: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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(S)pike couchant
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# 17199
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Posted
There's plenty of precedent for silk albs! I'm glad to see someone restoring this venerable Mediaeval custom.
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'Still the towers of Trebizond, the fabled city, shimmer on the far horizon, gated and walled' but Bize her yer Trabzon.
Posts: 308 | From: West of Eden, East of England | Registered: Jul 2012
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sebby
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# 15147
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Posted
Do you know of any illustrations of silk albs, or any links?
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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Mama Thomas
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# 10170
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Posted
Forgive me, but the very idea of silk albs is absurd. What a waste of money!
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
This is 12th century, and more than bit flashy.
Nowadays it seems, not even Luzar do them in silk.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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sebby
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# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
Forgive me, but the very idea of silk albs is absurd. What a waste of money!
But I have heard of people who pay more than £2000 for a car!
Or...just this morning heard of someone who spent £2000 to go on the piss with mates in Las Vagas (not Prince Harry).
I'm sure a silk alb would cost less than that and for some be much more enjoyable.
It is often the case that when vesture is discussed it is a 'waste of money' but other extravagences are not. I had this discussion with a retired priest who was shocked at the extravagence only to go on to say that he paid £25,000 for his new car.
Or the person who was shocked that I once paid £500 for a newly upholstered 18thC mahogany sofa, yet was willing to spend far more on something from Maples that would have lost money the instant it left the showroom.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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dj_ordinaire
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# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
This is 12th century, and more than bit flashy.
I think I've found my dream night-gown!
For use as an ecclesiastical undergarment, maybe not so much...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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