Ship of Fools: RSCM Sunday by Sunday

Thread: RSCM Sunday by Sunday Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=024949

Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :

Does anyone have a spare of the current copy of Sunday by Sunday (issue 61)? We have lost ours and choosing hymns is now much harder!

Many thanks!

[ 26. October 2012, 13:56: Message edited by: Panda ]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Our previous organ scholar used that. Our current one doesn't but we still manage with the help of some hymn sites.

PM if you want my links.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

RSCM usually send out two copies to each subscribing church. Do you know who gets your church's other copy. If not RSCM would probably tell you. They might also be willing to send you a replacement copy - possibly for a small charge.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I was thinking that hymns were chosen for the content of their words, with careful attention to the lectionary, liturgy and pastoral situation.

Or the vicar just struck a pin in.

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

In my ignorance I thought the preacher chose the hymns to ensure that the service theme had some bearing on the matter ( and the sermon)

Forgive my ignorance.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

Different traditions have different approaches to the question of choosing hymns. In some traditions they are chosen by the musicians - often well in advance of the service - and resources giving guidance as to suitable hymns for the season, lectionary etc. are often useful. In others, it is seen as important that they complement and support the sermon and so tend to be chosen by the sermon. Having worked in both kinds of situation, it is to some extent horses for courses.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

In an ideal world, clergy and musicians should work together (even "harmoniously"!). This is as true of nonconformist/Evangelical churches as formal/liturgical ones.

[ 26. October 2012, 21:07: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

I used to regularly get 'Sunday by Sunday', but then changed the type of subscription which means we no longer get them. But for general purposes, you can look at old copies (eg. Easter will still require Easter music, regardless of which year it is in). Our director of music used to use them in detail to carefully choose hymns and anthems - but now he just makes up his own mind, according to experience and - rather more than a smidgeon of - personal preference!

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Quite a number of special occasions or themes (Advent, Remembrance etc.) are available free to view on the RSCM website - or they used to be, I haven't checked recently. These do get updated most years, I think.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Just checked - it's still there under "Worship Resources".

Posted by Quinquireme (# 17384) on :

I get "Sunday by Sunday" but also refer to this:-
http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/yearb.html

You get suggestions, texts (from various hymnals) and tunes on a really cheesy synth sound.

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

Seasick mentioned hymns being chosen by musicians well in advance of the service, based on lectionary and other resources.

But which lectionary reading? There is often no thematic correspondence between the readings. Do the musicians have to guess the preacher's theme?

My neighbour goes to a Chuhh where this is obviously done. He gives me the weekly service sheet with readings and hymns supplied. And reports on the sermon. All too often it seems the sermon and the hymns are in a parallel universe - and, occasionally the sermon and the readings!

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

I used to be the organist for the Episcopal Studies group at an American seminary. They held a solemn Eucharist each Wednesday evening. In the course of the service we would read the Old Testament, Epistle and Gospel and chant the psalm. Part of my role was to choose the hymns for each service. I would start with the gospel and liturgical Sunday* and then be informed by the other lections in choosing the hymns and also have regard to where in the liturgy the hymn was happening - a hymn while the ablutions are being taken needs something different to the processional, for example. The sermon would be preached by one of the Episcopal students and quite often they would start with gospel and liturgical Sunday too so it fitted together. However, in that kind of service, the sermon is simply one of the components of the liturgy - it is not the centrepoint as it is in many nonconformist contexts so there is no need for everything to point to it. Indeed if the liturgy, readings, sermon and hymns all draw different things out of each other, that adds to the richness of the worship in my view.

*Although it was actually Wednesday, the liturgy was generally celebrated as if for the following Sunday. We did make an exception to that on Holy Wednesday!

[ 27. October 2012, 10:39: Message edited by: seasick ]

Posted by Brother Oscar (# 17227) on :

quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
But which lectionary reading? There is often no thematic correspondence between the readings. Do the musicians have to guess the preacher's theme?

One of the things I like about the RC LFM and RCL along with collects and other prayers is that they give different threads to follow in prayer and reflection during the Eucharist. It is not all down to a priest/minister's imposingly neat and brilliant theme. So I'm happy if the music picks up on different threads, or if it adds another complementary thread.

After all we in the pews are a diverse bunch leading various lives, and in different places in our spiritual journey. There are also different ministries within the worshiping community. The priest/minister should respect the integrity and the ability of the musicians, intercessors and child catechists.

I think the best sermons tend to be those that offer a little insight or word in the context of all that is proclaimed in the Liturgy of the Word and all that is offered up in the Eucharist. And above all acknowledge that it is the Holy Spirit who draws everything together.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

Well said. We certainly know when the preacher is way out in left field, compared to the readings. Having all hymns match up with one particular concept or theme is not necessary. The season of the church year and the time during the service when a hymn is sung also contribute to the choice. Thus, O come, o come Emmanuel makes sense in Advent, no matter what the preacher preaches.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:

But which lectionary reading? There is often no thematic correspondence between the readings. Do the musicians have to guess the preacher's theme?

At our shack, the Director of Music chooses the hymns (and anthems and voluntary) but with the understanding that the preacher of the day reserves the right to request a specific hymn change just before the day if there is one that would better fit the sermon theme. Obviously the polite thing to do is to let the musicians know this before choir practice on the Friday, if at all possible. If they are very well-organised, it even makes the printed pew sheet in time!

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :

There used to be a liturgy list from Decani publishing wasn't there, but for the life of me I can't remember what it's called.

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

I am not suggesting all hymns fit the theme. Sometimes it works as on Trinity Sunday when there are trinitarian hymns which express adoration; confession; dedication / commitment and mission.

But often the theme does not encompass all the necessary 'ingredients' of worship.

But one Church pamphlet I saw very recently listed the hymns and the opening hymn was "Forth in thy name O Lord I go". Had I been there I would have departed henceforth in accordance with the words!

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

Part of the helpfulness of Sunday by Sunday is that as well as indicating what reading a hymn relates to, or whether it is seasonal, it also suggest where some of the hymns might fir within a standard communion service. I think its weakness is that it doesn't look much at more contemporary material (though, doubtless, some will see that as an advantage [Razz]

)

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

To be fair, Sunday by Sunday does include the more tried and tested 'classics' of the modern worship song era.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Do the more modern worship songs fit into a normal formal communion service? Mostly they're designed to segue one into another as a sequence, rather than fit the introit, gradual, offertory, communion, post-communion pattern.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

Well, it depends. Some do - being more like hymns in structure and content. Others work well processionally, or (different mood) during communion. Sometimes putting a couple in place of (say) the gradual hymn can emphasise and aspect of the readings. Some work very well for the offertory. As with traditional hymns it depends.

Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on :

RSCM = Saint Charles, Martyr?

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
I am not suggesting all hymns fit the theme.

I'm not sure where you are, but the C of E got rid of the silly idea of Sunday "themes" in 2000, thank goodness with the awful ASB lectionary.

There's still plenty of material to make the hymns relevant to - having "Forth in the name of Christ we go" as an opener is a classic example of utterly inappropriate hymn choosing.

Obviously not all of them will have relevant words, but they should be chosen with care.

I don't see the point of gradual hymns when everyone can sing an alleluia.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
RSCM = Saint Charles, Martyr?

Royal School of Church Music

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0