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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Fr Geoffrey Beaumont's 20th century Folk Mass
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ardmacha
Shipmate
# 16499
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Posted
It is just about fifty-five years since Fr Beaumont's Folk Mass was broadcast by BBC from St Augustine's Highgate, celebrated facing the people, but with the English Missal, Roman shaped vestments and maniple; it must have been an extraordinary ceremony.The music was provided by a jazz/swing "combo". I wonder if anyone has heard the Mass and if it has been used liturgically within living memory ? I have heard parts of it and it is a precious period piece with an aeraly jazz-Cliff Richards-Noel Coward-Flanders & Swann flavour [an improbable mixture,I know].
Does anyone have memories of hearing it ? It caused a row The Times, at its most pompous wrote: "A certain kind of popular music is associated with the fetid atmosphere of the nighclub, dance hall or cabaret and its emphasis on cheap, moronic sexual alluremnt.But the service of Holy Communion is surely something removed from the idea of 'revelry by night'"
Well, give me 20th Cent.Folk over sentimental worship songs so often found in modern Roman catholic (& other) Churches.
Posts: 56 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2011
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
ardmacha,
I'm not clear quite what it is you wish to discuss on this thread. Bitching about church music (I quote) is a Dead Horse and so such threads do not belong in Ecclesiantics. My finger is hovering over the close thread button but I am persuaded that there is a sliver of hope that there might be a positive discussion about 20th century folk music and its liturgical use. However, if it is simply bitching then the thread will be closed.
seasick, Eccles host
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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ardmacha
Shipmate
# 16499
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Posted
Sorry, I thought that I had asked, fairly clearly, if anyone remembers the Folk Mass being used liturgically in recent times (i.e. since 1955 when it was broadcast by BBC)and if there were any interesting recollections and comments. I said that I prefer it to the New modern church music. I wouldn't have thought that expressing a preference for one kind of modern church music over another was "bitching". The Twentieth century Folk was reviled by many, was that unjust ? I wouldn't have thought that any of these points constituted "bitching about modern church music".
Posts: 56 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2011
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
(borrowing GK's lava lamp) While I have no memory of that folk mass there was a remarkable plethora of folk masses from then on - the Times quote is lovely in its bombastic arrogance. Sure they're not Mozart but they are magnificent vehicles (some of them) for the joy of heaven to which the Mass is an prolepsis.
It may be interesting to discuss what makes a good one - some for example seem to have no sense of the theological movements within the Gloria and just blither along, while others takje us from the crie de couer at human sin to the heights of joy at the encounter with divine forgiveness ...
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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mettabhavana
Apprentice
# 16217
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Posted
Seasick, perhaps I risk excommunication by criticising a host who's posted ex cathedra, but I find that astonishingly sour.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Hopefully you got out of bed the right side this morning, your heart is now righter with Ecclesiantics, and you can give us your electronic hand.
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And are we yet alive?
Posts: 39 | From: London, England | Registered: Feb 2011
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
You're welcome to criticise me but the place for that is the Styx not here. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion of Folk Masses...
seasick, Eccles host
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Antiphon
Shipmate
# 14779
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Posted
With the publication of the new edition of the Roman Missal and the abandonment of the former ICEL liturgical texts I suppose that many settings of the mass formerly used in RC churches will now be obsolete.
One such example is "The New People's Mass" by Fr Andrew Gregory Murray OSB which I think was published in the early 1970s. Although this setting was composed by an RC monk and musician it was also widely used at Anglican eucharists, including the sung masses in the Parish Church at Walsingham.
The setting will still be able to be used in its original form for Common Worship eucharists, but does anyone know if there is a revised versio available to reflect the recent changes in the Roman Missal?
Posts: 235 | From: Nowhere in Particular | Registered: May 2009
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
The same thing happened in the Episcopal Church in the U.S. Ian Mitchell wrote his "American Folk Song Mass" in 1960, and Herbert Draesel wrote his "Rejoice!" folk mass in 1964. "Rejoice!" was very popular (for special occasions, youth conferences, etc. mostly); I know some Lutheran and Methodist churches used at least parts of it. But both used the texts from the 1928 BCP of course. When the BCP was revised the settings no longer worked.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Bwnni
Apprentice
# 17342
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Posted
I'd be very interested to find a) a copy of Fr. Beaumont's Mass, and b) the 'famed' recording, as I'm currently doing post-graduate research into this period's music and liturgy.
For any other anoraks like me out there, Donald Swann did indeed compose a set of Morning Canticles. These (apparently) were recorded, with the B-Side containing "A Song of Reproduction" and "The Hippopotamus Song". The Liturgical Commission really lost a great chance when not including those.... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 5 | Registered: Sep 2012
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Morlader
Shipmate
# 16040
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Posted
Here is a link to a recording, possibly still available. I know someone who participated in, I think, the original recording and has a disc and a score, but I'm sure she wouldn't part with either. John Alldis cantored: he was her organist/choirmaster in Guildford and went on to much grander things (the John Alldis choir at Proms etc.).
My choir in Bromley, Kent, performed it several times in the 1970s at AC mass. We used to look forward to it.
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.. to utmost west.
Posts: 858 | From: Not England | Registered: Nov 2010
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Antiphon:
With the publication of the new edition of the Roman Missal and the abandonment of the former ICEL liturgical texts I suppose that many settings of the mass formerly used in RC churches will now be obsolete.
One such example is "The New People's Mass" by Fr Andrew Gregory Murray OSB which I think was published in the early 1970s. Although this setting was composed by an RC monk and musician it was also widely used at Anglican eucharists, including the sung masses in the Parish Church at Walsingham.
The setting will still be able to be used in its original form for Common Worship eucharists, but does anyone know if there is a revised versio available to reflect the recent changes in the Roman Missal?
Still forms part of the idiosyncratic usage of my humble "abode"*.
Why anyone would want to revise it, other than by totally rewriting it, is entirely mysterious to me. It's only a folk mass in that it is utterly unchallenging.
[ETA] *quotation marks are to indicate home church, rather than literal home.
[ 10. November 2012, 08:21: Message edited by: FooloftheShip ]
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
Posts: 2208 | From: Norwich | Registered: Apr 2010
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I don't know Beaumont, but we do use Murray as our default Mass setting ( Common Worship with Carflick bits, so no need for a revision!).
We also occasionally use the Gospel Alleluia from Christopher Walker's 'Celtic Mass' - a rather nice setting, IMHO, but which seems to need a full set of singers and musicians for best effect...
What about Martin Shaw's 'Anglican Folk Mass', founded on 'native hymn melodies'? Written for the 1662 BCP service, I wonder if anyone still uses it?
Maybe Merbecke was the first Folk Mass.......and is still singable and useable today.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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ardmacha
Shipmate
# 16499
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Posted
There is a Youtube clip of Ps.150; I think it was the Beaumont Introit, I like it all because it has the swing music with the Old Prayerbook words, which is interesting. Fr Beaumont C.R. said that his Mass was a new Merbecke, which he said was the original Folk Mass. The Martin shaw Folk Mass was something else and a more solemn affair;the Creed remained popular in many Anglican churches as achange from Merbecke.
Posts: 56 | From: England | Registered: Jun 2011
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