Thread: Installation of a New Incumbent Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 
Lengthy post warning. I have gone and gotten myelf fascinated about something. Apologies in advance.

So, earlier this week our new Rector was installed, for which TBTG. It was a beautiful service, followed by a splendid party in the parish hall. And it got me thinking about how this transfer of responsibilities takes place in other parts of the Anglican world and in other denominations, as well as about the history of the rite itself. The liturgy we experienced on Wednesday evening had interesting, and perhaps important, modifications to the 1979 BCP. I describe these further below, but in a nutshell, it pretty much shifted the focus from 100% on the priest to a celebration of shared ministries. I would be interested in how this compares to the experience of others on this board, particularly because there is a good mix of laypersons and clergy.

As I wrote above, the service got me wondering about the history of the installation rite, or indeed whether such a rite exists in the C of E. I wasn’t able to find a liturgy in the online 1662 BCP or in Common Worship, so if someone can correct me on that, please do! Moving instead to the Source of all Wisdom (TM), what I found described not a rite but a legal transaction, a procedure for transferring rights and property. I assume this is one of the many nuances of an established church, the implications of which I can barely grasp. (But what great vocabularly! Seisin! Advowson!) So my first question is whether a liturgy existed, or developed, to mark this transaction.

Taking an historical look at this rite in TEC, I found it interesting that, from its earliest days, a form of liturgy for the installation of a new rector was provided in the American BCP (from this link you can access all versions of it). While there is nothing in the 1786 Proposed text (which I assume was a bare-bones document borrowing heavily from the 1662 and existing mainly to get rid of those pesky royal prayers), by 1789 the first official BCP did indeed have an “Office of Institution of Ministers into Parishes or Churches.” Two things I find fascinating about this: first, it takes the actions from English ecclesiastical law – the handing over of keys, Bible, and canons – and essentially sacralizes them (I grant that such a rite may have existed in the C of E and I just couldn't find it!). Second, the rubrics imply that a Bishop’s presence, while desirable, is not likely to be possible (reflecting, I assume, the reality of things on the ground). Prayers for each Person of the Trinity and selections from Scripture were prescribed, and the Office was to be said at the end of Morning Prayer and followed immediately by Communion. This form of liturgy remained pretty much identical in the 1892 and 1928 revisions, although in 1928 there was more latitude in attaching the Office to MP, EP, or HC.

Things changed substantially in the 1979 BCP (well, *of course* it did, I hear you thinking). First, the 1979 placed the Office, now titled “Celebration of New Ministry,” squarely inside the service of Holy Communion. But the biggest change is in the rubrics for the Induction itself, which expands the traditional presentation of keys and books to include other symbols of the priestly role: anointing oil, bread and wine, a stole. And laypeople (beyond the Wardens) are for the first time included in the presentation of these items.

What we did differently this week (and I hasten to assure you it was done in consultation with the Bishop and the Commission on Ordained Ministry) was to broaden the presentation of these symbolic gifts so they represented some of the key ministries within the parish: a book from Children’s Ministries, a blanket from the Outreach group that works with the homeless, a basket of canned goods from our food pantry ministry, that sort of thing. And in lieu of the Creed, a Renewal of Baptismal Vows, led from the font and followed by asperges. So the Celebration of New Ministry featured, certainly, the installation of a new incumbent, with the traditional trappings, but its focus was a not-so-subtle shift to the ministry of all the baptized.

So, what say ye? What rites and rituals have you experienced for the installation of a new incumbent? How have these rites changed over time (or indeed, have they)? And finally, does the broader recognition of the laity as ministers, in a liturgical context such as this, make sense for the 21st century parish church?

[ 10. November 2012, 15:36: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Well each one is individual but you might like to view a URC one. More usefully it gives you the basic structure. If anyone wants to know the backroom stuff then here is one Synods process.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :
 
The Diocese of Bangor in my time developed a service which included sections which each described a facet of the ministry of the whole People of God in general theological terms, then described in practical terms the ministry of the priest within that facet.

It was extraordinarily well thought out, the brainchild (I think) of the bishop of that time. It wasn't tremendously rich in symbolism and ceremonies, but in an era when other dioceses were still dragging the incumbent around the business bits of the building to the tune of 'we love the place, O God'*, it was very refreshing.

* If you want to know about the special Church in Wales beartrap linked to this innocuous little hymn, you'll have to ask me!

[ 10. November 2012, 17:17: Message edited by: Oferyas ]
 

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Posted by seasick (# 48) on :
 
(British) Methodist churches simply have a service of welcome rather than installation or induction because we all hold the posts we hold by virtue of the decision of the Conference to adopt that year's stations* - so you're already the "incumbent" or whatever before the service even starts and would be were one never held. There's a set liturgy for it which rehearses what the role of a presbyter or deacon (as appropriate) is and invites the new minister to commit him/herself to that role and the people to commit themselves to their continuing work as the church.

One part of Church in Wales inductions (I don't think I've ever been to a Church of England one) that I don't get - and from Mamacita's post it seems it happens in the US too - is the presentation of the stole and other apparatus of ministry. Surely the place for that liturgically is at ordination? I could see the presentation of something that represented a role in that particular place but general symbols of ordained ministry seem out of place, really, to me. I would be grateful for insight though!

*Technical term - nothing to do with railways!
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
There are a list of things that should be done for an induction of a priest in the CofE Canons, p92 onwards (pdf) - there's an order of service from the Diocese of Ely
 

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Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
Call me an old grumpyboots if you like, but I've never understood why people can't just move in and start work. I suppose it's a personal thing - I hate any kind of fuss.
 

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Posted by Metapelagius (# 9453) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
There are a list of things that should be done for an induction of a priest in the CofE Canons, p92 onwards (pdf) - there's an order of service from the Diocese of Ely

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quote:

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Originally posted by seasick:
(British) Methodist churches simply have a service of welcome rather than installation or induction...

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In my first incumbency the Bishop (who had been ill) Instituted me in his study after coffee and biscuits! That night the Induction was carried out by the Archdeacon, and very much took the character of a public recognition of what was already true.

One part of Church in Wales inductions (I don't think I've ever been to a Church of England one) that I don't get - and from Mamacita's post it seems it happens in the US too - is the presentation of the stole and other apparatus of ministry. Surely the place for that liturgically is at ordination?

I totally agree. I haven't ever seen this at a C in W induction - in which diocese(s) have you seen this done?

At my last leaving service (variously entitled my 'Extraction', 'Deduction' or even 'Deliverance' ) the symbols I 'returned to the bishop through his churchwardens' (even though they hadn't actually been explicitly 'given' to me in the service when I first went there!) were the keys and service register for each church I had cared for. Those present thought it was quite a powerful moment.
 

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Posted by seasick (# 48) on :
 
I've been to three in Llandaff and it happened at all of them.
 

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Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :
 
Really? I would have expected better...
 

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Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :
 
In the RCC, the most that is generally done is the reading of a latter from the bishop stating that Fr. X is now the pastor of St. Y. Frankly, even that is rarely done. Usually the new new pastor just moves in and begins work. Of course, he is appointed by the bishop, period.
 

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Posted by Morlader (# 16040) on :
 
In the CofE it is, I think, rare for an "incumbent" to be appointed to a "living" - these days he/she is 'licensed' and the bishop can withdraw the license, and often (usually?) does so after 5 years, or a small multiple thereof.

Having acknowledged that, there are two distinct parts of the licensing, IME. One is the legal bit with emphasis on the rights and duties of the priest-in-charge, and the second on the welcoming. There was a service locally split between the two churches in the benefice: in the 'old' church the legal bit with processions, the archdeacon reading the mandate (or was it the Area Dean?) etc, and the welcome bit in the 'new' charismatic church with local non-CofE denoms, town officials, gifts AND food! Logistics of travelling between venues were dodgy but apart from that it was impressive. My choir had to adapt to the radically different atmospheres, but it seemed to go pretty well.

I think the liturgy used in Truro diocese is locally manufactured, but it is pretty good, IMVHO.

[ 10. November 2012, 19:57: Message edited by: Morlader ]
 

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Posted by Darllenwr (# 14520) on :
 
The stole and other appurtenances of ministry were presented to the new Rector of Hubberston (Milford Haven, Diocese of St David's) at his induction 3 weeks ago. So it isn't just confined to Llandaff.
 

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Posted by seasick (# 48) on :
 
The impression I had at all three was that this was the normal liturgy for such occasions.
 

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Posted by Mr. Rob (# 5823) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Adeodatus:

Call me an old grumpyboots if you like, but I've never understood why people can't just move in and start work. I suppose it's a personal thing - I hate any kind of fuss.

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Well, in the the USA, and TEC, USA, that's just what incumbents do, usually by prior arrangement with the search or transition committee. Clergy just move in by at an agreed date and start work. Unlike the Church in Wales, or other provinces, there is no need or requirement of a canonical or legal induction before a new incumbent begins work.

What is known now as The Celebration of a New Ministry always follows the move-in at the convenience of the bishop, parish and incumbent. That event can happen even some months following the beginning of the incumbent's start of work. The service is most usually planned well in advance for some convenient evening, using printed invitations, inclusion of visiting guests or clergy, and plans for a gala reception with food to follow.

In TEC the form now used, Celebration of a New Ministry, 79 BCP, page 557 or 558. while quite a relief from the old formalism of The Institution of Ministers, the festive potential of the newer rite can easily give way to sentimentalism, triviality, and pretty awful ceremonial congestion. The reason for that is the complexity of the composition of rite and multiplication of its symbols, all of which can rapidly get out of hand in a setting which is now supposed to be an act of worship. In other words, TEC 79 rite is quite difficult to do well.

Another issue is that all of this play and emphasis on the celebration of a new incumbency can easily go over the top, fostering unrealistic expectations for a priest-parish relationship that is after all, time limited. The event is a typical in the American meet and greet, hi-howdy tradition, with the Eucharist thrown in for good measure. Those those are all good things in themselves, but what about when there is ministry failure and it is time go, or go quickly? Then, unlike the Irish, we grieve alone. Put the keys through the mail slot.
*
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by seasick:
One part of Church in Wales inductions (I don't think I've ever been to a Church of England one) that I don't get - and from Mamacita's post it seems it happens in the US too - is the presentation of the stole and other apparatus of ministry. Surely the place for that liturgically is at ordination? I could see the presentation of something that represented a role in that particular place but general symbols of ordained ministry seem out of place, really, to me. I would be grateful for insight though!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Call me an old grumpyboots if you like, but I've never understood why people can't just move in and start work. I suppose it's a personal thing - I hate any kind of fuss.

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At the reception afterwards, some of the long-term parishioners were trying to remember whether there had been an installation ceremony and reception for our previous incumbent, who had been there for almost 20 years. No one could remember. But he was also one to not make a fuss, so we concluded that it never occurred.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
There's something of an urban rural differentiation here, where sometimes the bishop has to travel 100s of kilometres to induct. In that case, such as for example, when I went to Wankydilla 800 kms from Head Office, I just rolled in, started work, and the (regional) bishop did all the symbolically stuff later when he could get there. More often than not though, the induction, with the liturgical presentation of symbols, is the kick off here in Oz and NZ. Where I am now I'm only 35 kms fron head office, though the Vicar General inducted/commissioned me (with the diocesan registrar). In NZ I was 200 kms from head office, but the bshop kicked me off at the beginning.

The licence is always read out - or precised (how do you spell the verbal form of precis?). The symbols become awkward. A map? An iphone - with a map app? Keys (our wankydilla church and rectory were never locked). Stole - but that was given at ordination. Here a crocodile might have worked, but not one would cooperate
 

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
In the United Church of Canada, Ministers are Called to a particular pastoral charge or congregation. Until a year ago, new ordinands had to submit to Settlement, first being dispatched by the national Settlement Committee to one of our thirteen Conferences and then Settled in a vacant Pastoral Charge by the Conference Settlement Committee. But you must have a church to go to to be ordained. No church, no ordination. Settlement is now voluntary but the destination rule is still in force.

Our system is hybrid Methodist/Presbyterian as befits our nature and parentage.

Ministers either Called or Settled into a congregation have a Covenanting Service between the congregation and the minister with the Chair of Presbytery present. With that the pastoral relationship formally begins.

Presbytery has to approve the Call to particular charge too, mostly they are concerned that the search process was followed, that the minister and congregation are a good fit for each other (the search process involves a lot of mutual disclosure about priorities) and that the pay terms meet the national minimum guidelines.

There is no upper limit on minister's salaries, but it depends on local means. Our minister insists on being paid $10 per year more than the minimum on principle.
 

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Posted by Prester John (# 5502) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mamacita:

Things changed substantially in the 1979 BCP (well, *of course* it did, I hear you thinking). First, the 1979 placed the Office, now titled “Celebration of New Ministry,” squarely inside the service of Holy Communion. But the biggest change is in the rubrics for the Induction itself, which expands the traditional presentation of keys and books to include other symbols of the priestly role: anointing oil, bread and wine, a stole. ( my emphasis) And laypeople (beyond the Wardens) are for the first time included in the presentation of these items.

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Please pardon a silly question. If part of the priest's role is to serve as a bishop's delegated representative at the Table then wouldn't it make at least some sense to present those symbols to the priest as they take on their new position?
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
Hey! What a coincidence! We just had a gala service and luncheon reception for our new vicar today.

It was pretty much as Mamacita described- lots and lots of stuff happening. But what could have been total chaos was organized chaos. And wonderful.

Two things made our service significant: First, our new priest is the first woman to be ordained from her native country and this is the first parish of which she is head. A retired ordinary from her country came to read the Gospel in their language, and to show support from at least some factions of his church. The other was that earlier this year our Bishop was treated for a very life-threatening illness and survived. This was his first big event back in the saddle. And he looked quite fit.

As the Bishop noted, it looked like half our congregation came up to give gifts of ministry. We all nodded; it was true. The favorites were the canons on a thumb drive instead of the historic fat binder and a big ol' red wheel barrow was wheeled up for building and grounds. And, yes, we did give a stole and bread and wine. After all, she is going to serve us in a sacramental capacity. It makes sense to me.

The funniest moment was when the Bishop fumbled the words and seemed about to install his vicar as a bishop. Big Oooos! and AAAhs! and laughter!

After the liturgy, we stuffed ourselves silly in the garden on catered ethnic food of the highest quality. The afternoon was sunny and beautiful. It was a very memorable event.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
In my earlier inductions (St Invisible's in the Gum Trees in 1989 and St Immutable's in the Refrigerator in 1992) I insisted (and the bishop obeyed :-)) on a eucharistic liturgy for my induction. I can't recall but I think St Myopia's on the Swamp in 1998 was, too.

By the time we moved to All Saints' Wankydilla I was less inclined that way, not becuase I was any eucharistically centred but becuase many of the key players - Mayors, Roman Catholics, members of my own post-Christian blood family - were not eucharistically inclined or included. St Triangles on the Sides of the North and my present faith community (also St Invisible's, but amongst the Palm Trees) were ministries begun with a non-eucharistic liturgy.

Any thoughts?
 

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Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :
 
IMNSHO, in TEC 'Celebration of a New Ministry' has become completely overbalanced with 'presentation of gifts/symbols/etc.' While the 1928 rite may have been too formal/legal (I don't think so, BTW), the 1979 version and its loosey-goosey spawn (sorry, prejudice showing a bit), has in some places degenerated into contrived cuteness, to the detriment of solid theology-based liturgy. (And that's even before the bendy poles come in!)

Several years ago I was present at the installation of a new canon at St Paul's Cathedral, London. While there was quite a bit of oath-taking, much of it in arcane legaleze, the relevant points were made clearly and even an overseas visitor knew what was happening.
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by georgiaboy:
... the 1979 version and its loosey-goosey spawn (sorry, prejudice showing a bit), has in some places degenerated into contrived cuteness, to the detriment of solid theology-based liturgy.

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Example?

I'm sure your post is not a direct criticism of the service I described above. Our liturgy was squarely set within the context of the Baptismal Covenant.

One person's "cute and contrived" might be another person's joyful and inclusive. In any case, I think what you have posted is a bit of a false dichotomy.
 

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Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :
 
The few occasions I have had to attend such a service in a Lutheran ELCA context included the same sort of things you mentioned in the OP.

I do like the inclusion of laypeople in the ritual. When such an occasion happened in Lutheran churches in the early and mid 20th century, it seems to have been more common for such a service to have been held at nighttime, and for other pastors in the area to have taken part, rather than lay representatives of the congregation (except perhaps for a president of the church council.). Having this ritual take place during the normal Sunday morning service, and keeping the focus on baptism and communion seems to be the right way to go. Same with the use of laypeople representing the ministries of the congregation.

Thinking of the congregation's ministry as a collaboration makes a great deal of sense. One would need to make sure that the ritual did not convey the message that all authority (and hopes, and dreams, and responsibility) was being vested in the one being installed.

Did you make the new rector sign a prenup?
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Olaf:
Did you make the new rector sign a prenup?

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No, but the interim* had to with her new congregation.


* who had the bad taste to show up, but the good taste to leave the party quietly without holding court

[ 13. November 2012, 00:21: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
 

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Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on :
 
Wait, what? Your interim showed up to the event? Does your diocesan office know about this?

Our diocesan policy is that the (paid) interim has to stay away for two years. And we would *like* him back. I am going to lobby for his presence at the new building dedication because he went to all those damn city meetings, but that will be over a year from now so I don't see trouble getting permission granted.

The NSM who was part of our interim team has to stay away for six months. She is welcome back as well.

There's a small chance of our former rector showing up to the new one's party, because she lives in Eng-ur-land now. But she could decide to surprise us. If she asks I'm saying no. She sort of crashed the choir's last tour at a Famous English Cathedral and it wasn't pretty.

Back on an Eccles track, I love the idea of various the ministries getting involved (as a number of you know, a Celebration of New Ministry is in my parish's near future) although I am somewhat skeered of the bridge ladies cutting up if they're not invited to participate .
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Wait, what? Your interim showed up to the event? Does your diocesan office know about this?

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quote:

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Back on an Eccles track, I love the idea of various the ministries getting involved (as a number of you know, a Celebration of New Ministry is in my parish's near future) although I am somewhat skeered of the bridge ladies cutting up if they're not invited to participate .

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quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Is it just me, or does "installation of a New Incumbent" cause anyone else to imagine a priest being wheeled in covered in plastic wrapping on a trolley, then placed down carefully on the chancel step and securely fixed to it with angle iron brackets and six inch masonry screws?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Is it just me, or does "installation of a New Incumbent" cause anyone else to imagine a priest being wheeled in covered in plastic wrapping on a trolley, then placed down carefully on the chancel step and securely fixed to it with angle iron brackets and six inch masonry screws?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mamacita:

quote:

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Originally posted by Amazing Grace:
Wait, what? Your interim showed up to the event? Does your diocesan office know about this?

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I'm pretty sure we don't have a policy against this, seeing as how she was sent an invitation and the diocesan bishop was present. I realize now that my phrasing suggested she was a party-crasher, and that wasn't the case. I simply continue to be amazed at her narcissism and her insistence that she was Right™ in her 18 months of shit-stirring here. She is still a priest in this diocese, more's the pity, and only time will tell whether her new parish will "marry" her (they gave her priest-in-charge, not rector). [/bitching, sorry]

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quote:

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quote:

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Back on an Eccles track, I love the idea of various the ministries getting involved (as a number of you know, a Celebration of New Ministry is in my parish's near future) although I am somewhat skeered of the bridge ladies cutting up if they're not invited to participate .

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What, you don't want the bridge ladies bringing up a deck of cards and a copy of Hoyle? Because we did the presentations during a hymn, there was a natural limit to the number of presenters that could be accommodated. If pressed, you could just leave off the asterisked verses. ;)Let me know if you'd like me to send a copy of the service bulletin.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mamacita:

quote:

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Originally posted by seasick:
One part of Church in Wales inductions (I don't think I've ever been to a Church of England one) that I don't get - and from Mamacita's post it seems it happens in the US too - is the presentation of the stole and other apparatus of ministry. Surely the place for that liturgically is at ordination? I could see the presentation of something that represented a role in that particular place but general symbols of ordained ministry seem out of place, really, to me. I would be grateful for insight though!

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That's an interesting take on it, and FWIW I tend to agree. We did not present the new Rector with the stole or the other "priestly" items (oil or bread and wine). Actually, bread and wine had just been brought up as the oblations, so it seems odd to have two different sets of these. But I digress. We presented her with the keys, a Bible, and the parish seal, then the items that were symbolic of our various ministries. The area Dean read the letter of institution.

I take Mr Rob's point about the liturgy getting potentially sentimental and out of hand. The presentations happened at a brisk pace while the congo sang "Alleluia, Sing to Jesus" to Hyfrydol, so I think that was fitting and in good order.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mama Thomas:

The service really does need to be reworked. I've heard of services like this where the new priest has handed a box of chocolates, "to remember the sweeter times in life," a teapot "to remember to offer sympathy to those in sorry." Hard to refrain from using the barf icon now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Comper's Child:
I witnessed one where the new priest was called upon by his own children who handed him balloons - "Daddy, be to us a player of games".

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I laugh because this sounds like something out of a Lutheran supplemental resource.
 

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Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chorister:
Surely the sillier and fluffier items can be presented in the after-service party (you do HAVE after-service parties on such occasions??).

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Use this, Chorister's wise principle, when considering what to do with the cultural effluvia that is perversely attracted to funeral masses. The wake and the after-service party can both serve the same prophylactic function. (see Kaplan Corday's opening post on Christian Funerals for what this effluvia might be).
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
And weddings. Couples seem to throw far fewer fits when confronted with "What a wonderful thing to do at your reception!" than with "You want to be besmirch the House of God with WHAT???"

[ 18. December 2012, 21:10: Message edited by: Hart ]
 

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Posted by mettabhavana (# 16217) on :
 
"View a URC one": OH DEAR: Green stole on Moderator, red stole on inductee; Moderator's stole at half-mast; Bands on Moderator, none on inductee; No hood on Moderator, hood on inductee.
 

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Posted by mettabhavana (# 16217) on :
 
"nostalgic for the days of being led around to 'We love the place O God'": Some naughty hymn choices for an induction occur (well, it's a boring afternoon at the office). Depending on the personalities involved, the following might be replete with innuendo/amusement:

"O God of earth and altar"

"The Church's one foundation"

and the perennial wedding favourites

"Through the night of doubt and sorrow"

"Oft in danger, oft in woe"


 

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Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Angloid:
I don't know why coachloads of supporters from the priest's former parish should turn up in force, unless they want to make sure s/he's truly gone for good.

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On one such occasion in the past, I was sidled up to by my opposite number from the former parish, who conspiratorially whispered: "your loss is our gain".
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by mettabhavana:
"View a URC one": OH DEAR: Green stole on Moderator, red stole on inductee; Moderator's stole at half-mast; Bands on Moderator, none on inductee; No hood on Moderator, hood on inductee.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

Yes ordinations where one wears gown, scarf, bands and cassock and the other wears suit and tie are not unknown.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:

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Originally posted by mettabhavana:
"View a URC one": OH DEAR: Green stole on Moderator, red stole on inductee; Moderator's stole at half-mast; Bands on Moderator, none on inductee; No hood on Moderator, hood on inductee.

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Well, we "do different" here in the URC Eastern Synod ...

You will find Baptist inductions largely stole-free these days.

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