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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Pillar lectionary: unfit for purpose
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
The Pillar lectionary is designed for churches and cathedrals (mainly the latter) who have occasional visitors.
An agnostic friend of mine likes church music and turns up to cathedral choral evensong occasionally. the last time he went, the second lesson was from Titus 2, all about wives being submissive to their husbands.
It's all very well for me to explain that this is a deutero-Pauline passage and draws on Roman household codes but I wonder what view of Christianity get from such readings as this.
Such passages can be explained by preaching but there is rarelyu preaching at daily evensong.
Shouldn't the Pillar lectionary leave out difficult passages?
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
Or you could lay the blame at the feet of whoever decided not to preach (which may be a decision left to prevailing ecclesial culture rather than anyone's direct decision -- a structural sin). I do think there are some passages which simply demand preaching whenever they are read. This would be one (as would any account of genocide from the Former Prophets). My preference would be not to critique the lectionary for including them, but the clergy for not preaching.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
There is never a sermon at ferial cathedral Sung Evensong, and this extra lectionary has been devised specifically to meet the requirement.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Imersge Canfield
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# 17431
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Posted
What is a Pillar lectionary ? I've never heard of it before.
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'You must not attribute my yielding, to sinister appetites'
"Preach the gospel and only use jewellry if necessary." (The Midge)
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
If you have the C of E red booklet, the Lectionary, it is at the back of the book. It is a series of one OT and one NT readings for each day of the weekday of the year other than festivals.
The usual lectionary reads through the books of the Bible more or less continually (we skipt from Isaiah 14 yesterday to Isaiah 17 today). I imagine the idea of the pillar lectionary is to avoid odd bleeding chunks, and is meant to be used for cathedral evensongs and the like.
Leo is suggesting it is not doing what it sets out to do. However, I've just looked at the pillar lectionary for the last six months, and I can't see any readings from Titus. I've checked the three readings from 1 & 2 Timothy, and they have no reference to married life whatever.
Cathedrals can be surprisingly wayward at times. Are you sure it was from the pillar lectionary?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I've just looked at the pillar lectionary for the last six months, and I can't see any readings from Titus. I've checked the three readings from 1 & 2 Timothy, and they have no reference to married life whatever.
Cathedrals can be surprisingly wayward at times. Are you sure it was from the pillar lectionary?
Yes - Wednesday 14th November
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Imersge Canfield
Shipmate
# 17431
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Posted
Thanks very much venbede. I had never heard of the term 'Pillar' lectionary before
[ 27. November 2012, 19:35: Message edited by: Imersge Canfield ]
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'You must not attribute my yielding, to sinister appetites'
"Preach the gospel and only use jewellry if necessary." (The Midge)
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Leo
There is a link here to the Pillar Lectionary for Common Worship. There are two passages from Titus in the whole thing, one in a couple of weeks time and one during Easter. There is nothing from 2 Titus.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I've just looked up the pillar lectionary and leo is quite right: Titus 2 on that date. Pity.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Leo
There is a link here to the Pillar Lectionary for Common Worship. There are two passages from Titus in the whole thing, one in a couple of weeks time and one during Easter. There is nothing from 2 Titus.
Jengie
I don't know when the lectionary was changed, but that version dates to 2010. The current version (in the Advent 2011-Eve of Advent 2012 book) includes Titus 2.1-10 for 14 November.
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Did we have this thread a month ago?
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Peter Owen
Shipmate
# 134
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
There is a link here to the Pillar Lectionary for Common Worship. There are two passages from Titus in the whole thing, one in a couple of weeks time and one during Easter. There is nothing from 2 Titus.
Try looking on page 6.
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Πετρος
Posts: 266 | From: overlooking Liverpool Bay | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
That is Titus Chapter 2 not 2 Titus and it is in Advent, hence mentioned in the above post!
Sorry using the search facility is so much easier than checking individual pages!
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I'm confused. There is only one letter to Titus and its has a second chapter. In the pillar lectionary for this year verses 1-10 occur on the Wednesday of the Third Sunday before Advent.
And leo and I think it is a bad choice.
What's 2 Titus?
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.
For "milk" read "cop out" perhaps?
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
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Posted
With the tendency for cathedral congos to include people dropping in on spec - is there any recap-type exposition given around stuff like the passage quoted? Stuff that covers the whole "only one side of a conversation in correspondence" aspect?
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
It's very easy for the reader to say a few lines that give a little context; I've heard that a few times in cathedral services. I'd have thought it was a good idea if you look round and see mostly tourists. There are a lot of passages that need a little help to stand on their own, as it were.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I'm pretty confident you could read through the entire liturgical books of the Orthodox and Tridentine Roman churches and you'd never find that sort of passage used. The primary purpose of the readings is worship, not social instruction. *
It is certainly to contact the Liturgical Commission - you could always put a letter in the post to Church House if you can't find "contact us" link online.
* Although it would be absurd for cathedrals to use anything other than the structure of BCP Evening Prayer, I think two long readings are far too much and I only use one in my private use of the office.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.
For "milk" read "cop out" perhaps?
If you said that to St Paul, he'd write you an epistle. And you really don't want to be on the receiving end of an epistle.
I'd never heard of the Pillar lectionary. I think it's a fantastic idea. In theory. Right up to the point where somebody sticks Titus 2.1-10 in it. I mean, even the rest of Titus 2 would be an improvement.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Percy B
Shipmate
# 17238
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Posted
I like the idea of such a lectionary.
Many c of e lectionaries give such huge chunks of scripture. They also are designed for those who say an office day after day after day, I don't, so a stand alone by day lectionaries sounds good to me.
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I thought the pillar lectionary was more aimed at avoiding readings which either only made sense if you'd heard the previous day, or if you heard the following day, and to provide readings of reasonable length. I agree that Titus 2 would be unlikely to make favourable impression on a passing agnostic, though I'm intrigued that it was the one verse about wives being submissive to husbands that was picked up on, rather than the verses about slaves being submissive to masters. That said, I think there may also have been a desire not to 'airbrush' less palatable aspects of the Bible.
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
It's not that i want to dilute The Word but i want to encourage 'milk' as the scripture says, for newbies.
For "milk" read "cop out" perhaps?
If you said that to St Paul, he'd write you an epistle. And you really don't want to be on the receiving end of an epistle.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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