Thread: Epiphany Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=025000

---

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :
 
I love Epiphany. We keep it on a Sunday and this year it is on a Sunday.

I like it because of the rich imagery, the lovely hymns and the message.

I was thinking about it and I realise I also like it because the congregation is more a regular one than Christmas Day and I - and this is a personal thing- feel mor comfortable because of that.

Am I in a minority in my love for this wonderful feast?
How does your church observe it?
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
I love it, and though the "wise men [sic] still seek Jesus" is vomitous, it is a theme that can be played with creatively in preaching and liturgy.

Unfortunately in OZ-Zealand it occurs during the Great National Shut-Down so largely slips into nothingness. Lay readers will be in charge of the liturgy in my faith community and I will be 6,000 kms away.
 

---

Posted by Vulpior (# 12744) on :
 
I've looked after the liturgy in the absence of a priest previously. I always enjoyed doing it and gave the congregation chalk to mark their doors and proclaimed the date of Easter.
 

---

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
I agree with Percy B that it is a wonderful feast. Unfortunately it's not just in NZ that it comes at the end of a week's 'shut down'. It's a day that seems tailor-made for involving children in the liturgy, but it's just before they go back to school and few people are around that week. I rather like Common Worship's suggestion of a great Epiphany liturgy which incorporates all the themes: the Baptism of Christ, the miracle at Cana, as well as the three Kings. This could happen a week later and be splendid.
 

---

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :
 
I love it too. We always keep it on the nearest Sunday and have a full evening Mass with the usual bells 'n' smells, starting in candlelight (even more candles than usual!) with our 3 quite large and heavy figures of the Wise Men being carried in procession to the Crib while everyone sings 'We three Kings...'. All the other normal Epiphany carols, and a lovely party afterwards. 'Tis very good
 

---

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
And you should see how many candles that shack counts as normal!
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
The usual Sunday Mass at our place, I expect, with the best white vestments and some Piffany hymns. The wise men will by then have made their way (via the church window-sills) to the House (aka Crib Scene) and will duly be placed therein - maybe this year we could get some of the kids to do this at the beginning of the Mass......

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Apparently it is to be "All Age Worship" followed by a "Family Fun Day". I have very little idea what that will involve (probably not a lot). I was originally scheduled to preach but the Vicar wisely decided to switch me to another day.
 

---

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The usual Sunday Mass at our place, I expect, with the best white vestments and some Piffany hymns. The wise men will by then have made their way (via the church window-sills) to the House (aka Crib Scene) and will duly be placed therein - maybe this year we could get some of the kids to do this at the beginning of the Mass......

Ian J.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Apparently it is to be "All Age Worship" followed by a "Family Fun Day". I have very little idea what that will involve (probably not a lot). I was originally scheduled to preach but the Vicar wisely decided to switch me to another day.

---

Shudder. "Family Fun Day" down the road from here seems to mean "bouncy castle".
 

---

Posted by Jante (# 9163) on :
 
We are having an All age service in the morning and a Evensong with Epiphany procession in the afternoon. I'm responsible for the morning All Age and struggling to come up with soemthing that isn't very similar to the evening service. I had planned the morning then got given the evening order of service which showed very similar ideas! As we have many of the same people likely to turn up to both services ( and due to schools not being back very few families at the All Age) I've had to go back to the drawing boards!
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Percy B - thanks for giving me an Idea!

If we get any Kidz along on Epiphany, the chances are that they'll saunter in sometime before the Gospel, so it does indeed make sense to have the Wise Men placed in position at that point in the service. All I have to do now is to persuade Father to 'informalise' the liturgy at the required moment.......

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :
 
Glad to be of some use, Bf.

I know in some churches blessing of homes is encouraged at Epiphanytide. I know blessed chalk is distributed sometimes, or holy water made available to take home.

Does the blessing of the chalk or holy water take place at Epiphany Mass or, as I have read somewhere, the evening before so it is ready for distribution.
 

---

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :
 
I'll do our normal service, with a couple of tweaks. First, we're singing the only Epiphany hymn in the UMH that anyone has any hope of knowing (We Three Kings), along with What Child is This and another that I'm not remembering at the moment. I'm going to proclaim the date of Easter following the Communion, too.

I'll probably do a bit more for Baptism of the Lord, actually.
 

---

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
I'll probably do a bit more for Baptism of the Lord, actually.

---

That seems to be the typical consequence of the liturgical reforms. Being a child of the Vatican 2 era, I wonder: Was Epiphany a bigger deal in the olden days?
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Having been reminded that Epiphany was the day when Holydays for the coming year were announced, I've duly included a list on this coming Sunday's news-sheet (but without chant, alas....).

Our very trad-minded Sacristan-cum-MC thinks it's a Good Idea to get the Kidz (or Yoof) to put the Magi in place just before the Gospel, so that will add weight to my argument when I try to persuade Father to do summink a bit different......



Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Oh, BTW - was it just our place.....or was your place The Invisible Church yesterday? I know it's a quiet period, but blimey.......

......I am hoping that we do indeed get a fair turnout for Epiphany, which is, I believe, an important element of the liturgical year!

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
I was filling in for a priest on holiday yesterday in a two-church benefice. They had cancelled the mass in one and it was supposed to be a joint service in the other. It was a vast barn of a place (the biggest brick-built church in Europe I understand) but virtually none of the other congregation were there. There were less than 30 of us, with several people arriving half an hour late because the time had been changed (moved later, but they'd assumed it was an hour later, not half).

But we had an excellent organist who had not been expected. The church was not too cold, people were friendly, and the sun peeped through the clouds from time to time. And they listened to my rant on the Holy Dysfunctional Family.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Sounds very much like our place yesterday!

Mind you, we didn't get a rant about the Holy Dysfunctional Family - but the preacher (our Informal Visiting Priest) raised several hearty laughs at the expense of Prof. Dawkins.....

....and the sun indeed did shine from time to time......and prayer was offered....and the Word of God expounded.......and Holy Communion was shared.......and a couple of visitors were welcomed (and said they'd come back).......

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
I shall celebrate Epiphany on Sunday.

Hymns: As with gladness; Brightest and best; amongst others.

And I shall expound along the lines that Raymond Brown suggested in his "Birth of the Messiah".
 

---

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :
 
I like O worship The Lord in the beauty of holiness for Epiphany.

I understand RCs are encouraged to have more candles at Epiphany, which seems a good custom to me.

Perhaps the best incense should be used and the best vestments as an offering in worship too.
 

---

Posted by ChippedChalice (# 14057) on :
 
We're doing our normal round of Masses in the morning (the Choir is singing Palestrina).

Then we're going to have a parish dinner and Christmas carol sing-along (one last chance to sing all the Xmas hymns we don't do during Advent).

And, following that, we're doing a Choral Evensong and Benediction -- the first such choral office we've done in many years. (I'm not counting our wonderful Advent Lessons & Carols service as a proper Office.)

I'm very much looking forward to it.
 

---

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChippedChalice:
And, following that, we're doing a Choral Evensong and Benediction -- the first such choral office we've done in many years. (I'm not counting our wonderful Advent Lessons & Carols service as a proper Office.)

I'm very much looking forward to it.

---

So am I. Every time I attend Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament in our church, it gives me chills (of the good kind) to realize that ours was the first parish church in the Anglican Communion since the Reformation to offer Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament, in April of 1884. There was a Solemn E&B on June 17, 1984, to mark the centenary. Fr. Leslie J. Lang, serving in retirement at the time at St. Thomas', Fifth Avenue, preached.
 

---

Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :
 
I'm going to burn a bit of incense, I believe. I don't have a thurifer (yet), so I'll just burn a bit in the sanctuary beforehand to give the scent without smoking everyone out.
 

---

Posted by Freddy (# 365) on :
 
We don't celebrate Epiphany, and almost none of our members would even know what it is. But this year our neighboring museum of religious art and history has an exhibit devoted to it, so I am talking about it after church.

It is interesting that it is so meaningful to many people. My sermon this Sunday is about something completely unrelated, so I hope that visitors are not disappointed.
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Like at Bishop's Finger's place, the wise men have been travelling around the church, getting closer to the crib. On Sunday morning they finally arrive and are placed in the crib by the older children. We will be singing Epiphany hymns, but otherwise it is as a normal Sunday Eucharist and Evensong.
 

---

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
Some exciting and colourful ways that Epiphany is celebrated around the world.
 

---

Posted by aig (# 429) on :
 
All appropriate entrances now chalked. I love Epiphany...
 

---

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :
 
Our priest will bless our house in two weeks. The chalked numbers are still clearly visible from last year.
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
Our churches picked some nice Epiphany hymns: The people that in darkness walked, We three kings (natch), As with gladness, Earth has many-a noble city etc.

The address offered a reading of 'The Journey of the Magi' by T S Eliot, and a brief round-up of the significance of the gifts. The idea was that we're still journeying, no longer to Christ but with him. Epiphany takes the child out of the manger and places him on the road to the cross and the empty tomb. Draws a line under the Christmas cuteness.

One church, in particular, looked very lovely - early enough in the morning to be still quite dark, with candles in the windows, a modest xmas tree, and wreathe lit up. Felt like a special way to move on from Christmas, like with all the dark greenery around spring is ready to break through.
 

---

Posted by Traveller (# 1943) on :
 
Epiphany can be a bit of a mixed blessing, as it were.

The story as told in Matthew makes no sense when you start to look at the details IMNSHO, and I heard a splendid example a few years ago when a Reader was preaching and tied himself up in all sorts of logical knots. We had the (evangelical) priest from the parish-next-door yesterday who acknowledged that some saw the story as allegory, but asked why should one doubt it as it was the Word of God? I was very tempted to tell him.

I was on the rota to conduct the intercessions, so included a carefully phrased section talking about following the example of the wise men in the story and troubling ourselves to journey to find Christ and offer ourselves in His service. Everyone could be happy with that, but I know what I meant.

Musically, I find it a curate's egg – parts of it are excellent; the rest is better not spoken about. O worship the Lord is musically and theologically quite good; As with Gladness, Brightest and Best, Earth has many a noble city, are mediocre, but OK; We three Kings is
 

---

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :
 
I wasn't working yesterday morning so went elsewhere too find incense as epiphany without incense would be weird. Well I found incense but also weird! Opening procession, no smoke, crucifer and choir in albs and brown tabards with Tau cross. Couple of others in plain albs priest in surplice and scarf. Odd sermon on verse openings of Joy to the World including God given suffering. There was a mike but new stood to far away from it and kept looking round and lady behind more went out saying she couldn't hear a thing. Thurible appeared at peace. Priest left censing to MC and had to be instructed to turn and face MC to be censed. During the EP he kept his hands down and looked rather out of place. Very odd.

But I got incense at least.

Carys
 

---

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :
 
The priest reading the gospel knelt at the words "they fell down and worshiped". Even an anorak like me had never come across that one, but I liked it.

But alas, no blessing of chalk.
 

---

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
There were quite a few occasions when we all knelt on specific days for specific words e.g. 'and the Word was made flesh' at Christmas, ''every knee shall bow' on Paul Sunday. The only kneeling which has survived the revisions is 'gave up his spirit' during the Passion on Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

Call me old-fashioned, but i remember all these and do a profound bow - as i did when reading the gospel last Sunday.
 

---

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
There were quite a few occasions when we all knelt on specific days for specific words e.g. 'and the Word was made flesh' at Christmas, ''every knee shall bow' on Paul Sunday. The only kneeling which has survived the revisions is 'gave up his spirit' during the Passion on Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
There were quite a few occasions when we all knelt on specific days for specific words e.g. 'and the Word was made flesh' at Christmas, ''every knee shall bow' on Paul Sunday. The only kneeling which has survived the revisions is 'gave up his spirit' during the Passion on Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

---

A tangent - what is Paul Sunday?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by leo:
There were quite a few occasions when we all knelt on specific days for specific words e.g. 'and the Word was made flesh' at Christmas, ''every knee shall bow' on Paul Sunday. The only kneeling which has survived the revisions is 'gave up his spirit' during the Passion on Palm Sunday and Good Friday.

Call me old-fashioned, but i remember all these and do a profound bow - as i did when reading the gospel last Sunday.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by venbede:
The priest reading the gospel knelt at the words "they fell down and worshiped". Even an anorak like me had never come across that one, but I liked it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgiaboy:
And of course we had to do 'We Three Kings' in the solemn procession, and 'Brightest and Best' (with its f**ked up words) for the exit hymn.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:


On the hymn thread I mentioned that I was on my denomination's hymnal committee, which restored a verse to that hymn that had been left out of the previous liturgy, the verse about "odors of Edom."

Is that the verse that is messed up in your view? [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Freddy:


On the hymn thread I mentioned that I was on my denomination's hymnal committee, which restored a verse to that hymn that had been left out of the previous liturgy, the verse about "odors of Edom."

Is that the verse that is messed up in your view?

---

No, we still have 'odors of Edom', but just little snips in the text (mostly gender-neutralizing) make it difficult to sing out of my memory banks -- not that that's such a bad thing, though. [/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Forthview:
Certainly in Austria ( and possbly in Poland) there is a custom of blessing herbs on Assumption Day,reminding us of the sweetness of the Mother of God.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Forthview:
About the white bag which RW got in a church presumably in Wroclaw I asked an old Polish lady today.She is a fund of information about popular customs before WW2.She said that you put the bag beside a picture of our Lady but that you can eat the herbs or offer them to others.I'm not sure if she was confusing the Epiphany with the Presentation which used to be a feast of our Lady.Certainly in Austria ( and possbly in Poland) there is a custom of blessing herbs on Assumption Day,reminding us of the sweetness of the Mother of God.
Anyway I'll be in Krakow next Sunday and will see if I can find out more.

---

Thanks!

I seem to recall that something similar happens for the Assumption as well. I think I've seen women with flowers in bunches going to church.

I think the Orthodox church I attend has something similar going on around that time as well.

Coming back to the white bag, my wife guesses that it somehow contains gold, frankincense and myrrh in some kind of symbolic way.
 

---

Posted by daisymay (# 1480) on :
 
We had an "Epiphany Coral Service" tonight, and there seemed to be almost 100 people there.

We had various readings, as mentioned before, "The Journey of the Magi" by Elliot, and "The Time Being" by Auden, "The Prologue in Memorial" by Tennyson, as well as Gospels - John 1:1-14, Like 2:21-24, Matthew 2:1-12, Matthew 2:13-18, Luke 2:25-35, and so no sermons.

The choir sang Latin and German songs, "Magnum Mysterium", "Nunc Dimittis", "The Christmas Oratori" by J.S.Bach, and also English ones, "The Three Kings" Cornelius, "Coventry Carol" M. Shaw.

We also seemed to have "ancient hymns" for us all to sing. "Of the Father's heart begotten" from about 300am, "As with gladness men of old" from about 1800, "Unto us is born a son" from Latin, with Latin the last verse, and "O worship the Lord" 1800.

We also had prayers and Blessings, and then bits of food and drinks. people did seem to enjoy it all.
 

---

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :
 
Just a few words about Rosa winkel's question about the 'Epiphany bags' I asked several people in Krakow about this custom.No-one knew anything about it,so it can't be common all over Poland.

What I did notice,and what I think may be a custom all over Poland is that all the churches keep Christmas decorations and cribs till 2nd Feb.(Candlemas/Presentation/Purification)The churches all had beautiful small Christmas trees with small white lights on most of the altars which provided entrancing light when one came into a church and would see the lights of about 10 small Christmas trees.
I expected the Christmas cribs to be larger than they were - most were like those in Catholic churches in the UK with the figures of Mary,Joseph,child,shepherds,angels and kings.
I thought that they might have had,as one finds in Latin countries and sometimes in austria,representations of all sorts of other people as well.
Krakow also has a tradition of building popular cribs like towers with the Nativity scene in the middle. There was one in the Franciscan church
which ahd in the middle a figure of the Virgin Mary rocking the baby's cradle.
With more than 150 Catholic churches in the city it was difficult to visit more than a few of them. I did see also one non Catholic church of the two evangelic confessions- Lutheran and reformed as well as one Byzantine rite Catholic church.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Well, our little post-Nativity scene (i.e. with the Magi) will remain in situ until Saturday......but should we remove it before our 930am Candlemas Eucharist, or leave it until after the service?

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :
 
I'd leave it until after the Candlemas Mass meself.

Carys
 

---

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :
 
We're keeping it up, singing the Angelus at it, and censing it at the end Mass. It's then being taken down. (We're transferring the feast.)

Thurible
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Forthview, perhaps there's an exhibition of, how I call them? Moveable houses built especially for Christmas. They're crib sets of sorts, but all sparkly. When I was in Kraków last year there was an exhibition in one of the museums on the rynek. Can't remember which one.

We've still got our tree up at home.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
As we are keeping Candlemas on the correct day , it has been decided to remove the Nativity scene at the conclusion of that mass i.e. on the correct day.

Not that I'm trying to make a thing of us keeping Candlemas on the correct day, you understand.....

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Thurible (# 3206) on :
 
I used to belong to churches that kept feasts on the correct day. Those were the days. <nostalgic sigh>

Thurible
 

---

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :
 
Rosa Winkel there was indeed an exhibition of these towerlike structures containing a Nativity scene in the middle.It is in the Muzeum Historyczne Miasta Krakowska (History Museum)

The cribs in the churches were however the standard type but the Franciscan church had as well as its standard crib in front of the High Altar a Szopka Krakowska (Cracov type tower) in a side chapel.It was a huge structure and in the centre was this moving structure portraying the Virgin Mary rocking the Baby Jesus.It was actually the first church I went into as it had a Sunday Mass in Italian(My Polish is very limited).
In the building opposite the church there was a smiling picture of pope John Paul completely filling a window.It turned out that this was the archiepiscopal palace and it was from this window that he often addressed the faithful when he was the archbishop.
 

---

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thurible:
I used to belong to churches that kept feasts on the correct day. Those were the days. <nostalgic sigh>

Thurible

---

© Ship of Fools 2016


UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0