Ship of Fools: St John's day customs

Thread: St John's day customs Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

Yesterday I was at Mass for St stephen's day in Glasgow.By chance the celebrant was a Polish priest. at the end of the Mass he went over some customs of the Christmas period 'from my country' as he said.Most of them I was aware of,but one I'd never heard of before.

He said that on St John's day,27th December, the priest will offer wine to the faithful. I'm not sure if he meant consecrated wine which I've never experienced at Mass in Poland or if he meant other wines offered as a refreshment after Mass. According to the priest this custom has something to do with an incident concerning St John and wine.

Does anyone have any knowledge of this custom?
or indeed can anyone enlighten me about the incident ?Would this be a general Polish Christmas custom or might it be just a custom in the family of this priest ?

Posted by teddybear (# 7842) on :

I have heard about it, but never seen it done. According to the story, St. John was offered a poisoned cup of wine. He said a blessing over it and then drank it without being harmed by the poison. It became a custom to bless a cup of wine in his honor and drink it for protection.

See here.

quote:
Leader: Let us pray. Be so kind as to bless and consecrate with Your right hand, Lord, this cup of wine, and every drink. Grant that by the merits of Saint John the Apostle and Evangelist, all who believe in You and drink of this cup may be blessed and protected. Blessed John drank poison from the cup, and was in no way harmed. So, too, may all who this day drink from this cup in honor of Blessed John, by his merits, be freed from every sickness by poisoning and from any harms whatever. And, when they have offered themselves in both soul and body, may they be freed, too, from every fault, through Christ our Lord.

All: Amen.

Leader: Bless, Lord, this beverage which You have made. May it be a healthful refreshment to all who drink of it. And grant by the invocation of Your holy name that whoever tastes of it may, by Your generosity receive health of both soul and body, through Christ our Lord.

All: Amen

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

Under a previous pastor, my parish observed this custom. It has nothing to do with consecrated wine (which we call the Precious Blood). Families bring their own wine to be blessed. An alternate is the pastor blessing and giving out unopened bottles of wine.

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

Many thanks Teddy Bear and Ceremoniar for these explanations.
Normally I would indeed use the term Precious Blood for that form of the Blessed Sacrament which appears to be wine which has been consecrated,but for this question here I thought it better to refer to what the Precious Blood resembles.

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :

I read somewhere St Johns day was a special day for priests, but in what way this was marked I don't know.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

So, does this explain the imagery frequently seen in stained glass of St John holding a chalice with a snake or serpent in it?

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Yes. I think the story is in The Golden Legend.

Posted by Corvo (# 15220) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
So, does this explain the imagery frequently seen in stained glass of St John holding a chalice with a snake or serpent in it?

There's a nice example here: http://www.stjudeonthehill.com/2009/12/saint-johns-day.html

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Poland seems to have a lot of rather splendid religious customs, not only (of course) for St. John's Day.

A former girlfriend of mine, who is Lithuanian, but Polish in family origin, was quite disgusted to find how bare and austere RC worship in this country can sometimes be! (She preferred to worship at the Anglican Cathedral....... [Eek!]

).

Ian J.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Rochester? ? ! !

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Rochester? ? ! !

Most Anglican cathedrals manage more splendid ceremony than most RC churches in this country. Even Liverpool, stodgy as it is.

Posted by teddybear (# 7842) on :

The blessing of wine on the feast of St. John the Evangelist from the Roman Ritual

Posted by Sergius-Melli (# 17462) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Rochester? ? ! !
Most Anglican cathedrals manage more splendid ceremony than most RC churches in this country. Even Liverpool, stodgy as it is.

This comment sparks this question: Did anyone else see the midnight mass from the RC Cathedral at Leeds?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Yes - one of our (housebound) parishioners did. She said it was really quite splendid).

And what, I may ask (sternly) is wrong with Rochester Cathedral? Small, maybe, but perfectly formed, and with one of the finest pipe organs in the UK. I don't get to go there that often these days, but it has the style of a large mixed-age parish church with excellent liturgy, preaching and music. So there!

[Razz]

Ian J.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Every year a certain number of Freemasons turn up for the daily mass on St. John's Day.
I know there is a certain Masonic connection, but don't know what it is.
Can anyone explain?

Posted by Forthview (# 12376) on :

Since I asked the question earlier I have now heard several times of the custom from various sources.
On Sunday I was speaking to an old Polish lady whom I visit regularly and I asked her about the custom. Ah,yes,she said with a twinkle in her eye'When we were children we would go from church to church to receive the blessed wine more than once.

Posted by Cruet (# 14586) on :

Georgia Boy,
Possibly the Knights of St. John?

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Cruet:
Georgia Boy,
Possibly the Knights of St. John?

The OP said Masons came to the Mass.

Posted by Barnabas Aus (# 15869) on :

The Holy Saints John [Baptist and Evangelist] are regarded as the patron saints of Freemasonry. See here

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas Aus:
The Holy Saints John [Baptist and Evangelist] are regarded as the patron saints of Freemasonry. See here

I do not desire to enter into a discussion that would ultimately be destined for Purgatory, but will simply point out the following:

---Freemasonry, though perhaps dominated by Protestant Christians in this country--including the naming of patronage mentioned above--is not a Christian organization. Many non-Christians are members, as belief only in a (the?) supreme being is required. (Historically, beyond just the RCC, a number of other denominations objected to Freemasonry, as well.)
------Although automatic excommunication for Roman Catholics who join a masonic lodge is no longer contained in Western canon law, it continues to be categorically forbidden for them to join. Some bishops continue the automatic excommunication, most notably the Bishops of Lincoln, past and present.
---In light of the above, it would be highly unusual--disrespectful, actually, by any standard--for Masons to come as a group to a Roman Catholic Mass. Perhaps the incident mentioned here was in an Anglican parish, but in that case please see above.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Hmm. Interesting. It might explain why a certain church near here had a fair-sized congo for its Patronal Festival last week - including a number of Roman Catholics (formerly Anglicans) who see nothing odd in their receiving Communion in the Anglican Church, in despite of the rules of their own Church.........perhaps the demands of Freemasonry transcend those of the RCC??

Ian J.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Hmm. Interesting. It might explain why a certain church near here had a fair-sized congo for its Patronal Festival last week - including a number of Roman Catholics (formerly Anglicans) who see nothing odd in their receiving Communion in the Anglican Church, in despite of the rules of their own Church.........perhaps the demands of Freemasonry transcend those of the RCC??

Ian J.

No, snide remarks aside, it is far more likely that these contemporary RCs are simply very poorly catechized. They know not what their obligations are about any of the above. [Frown]

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas Aus:
The Holy Saints John [Baptist and Evangelist] are regarded as the patron saints of Freemasonry. See here

BA:
Thanks for the interesting and informative link.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

My wife and her mother hadn't heard of this, so we asked our 92 year old grandmother who has lived in different parts of Poland. She said that she's never seen this wine-blessing for St. John's day thing, but knows of a village close to Oświęcim where it happens, by which I mean where people bring bottles of wine, and they get blessed.

Posted by Thread Necromancer (# 17559) on :

We don't have anything special for St John's Day in our church.

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