Ship of Fools: Anyone keep Holocaust Memorial Day?

Thread: Anyone keep Holocaust Memorial Day? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

We did - twice - I was preaching on the conversion of St. Paul (our patronal, transferred from Thursday), which lent itself easily to talk of the transformation of a bigot with murderous tendencies.

I also led a meditation last Thursday evening, the day when our city had a series of events throughout the day.

One of my friends, however, was horrified that his church didn't even mention HMD in the intercessions and had the tune "Deutschland, Deutschland über alles" for the last hymn.

Posted by Jenn. (# 5239) on :

Mentionned at the intercessions where I was but nothing else. I'm not sure how prominent it is in people's minds? I know that the bbc have been doing some stuff, but without a national event, these things seem to pass by unnoticed by many.

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

Mentioned in intercessions during two of our four services today...which meant the topic came up in conversations afterwards.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

Sadly it wasn't mentioned in our sermon or intercessions (neither of which I was responsible for). It's not like the people who were to forget something like this.

Posted by Percy B (# 17238) on :

Evening prayer at ours was in HMD.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

The Deutschlandlied actually predates the Nazi regime by some 150 years. As I'm sure you know, the melody is from a Haydn string quartet. The Nazis retained it as the national anthem, but the words have nothing to do with Nazism or anti-Semitism; they refer to the unification of Germany and date from the 1848 revolution.

Posted by AberVicar (# 16451) on :

Our County Borough is having its first ever Holocaust Memorial Day commemoration tomorrow: a lecture in Abertillery Comprehensive School followed by a parade with lanterns.

Abertillery is one of several local towns where Jews were sheltered from anti-Semitic rioting and other persecution that took place in South Wales in the first decade of the twentieth century. I know that HMD has been going on for some time now, but locally it's a start.

I have preached regularly on the subject, though I didn't yesterday, but it was included in the intercession.

Posted by seasick (# 48) on :

We included remembrance of all those who died in the Holocaust as part of the intercessions yesterday morning and I'm off to the civic memorial event today.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
The Deutschlandlied actually predates the Nazi regime by some 150 years. As I'm sure you know, the melody is from a Haydn string quartet. The Nazis retained it as the national anthem, but the words have nothing to do with Nazism or anti-Semitism; they refer to the unification of Germany and date from the 1848 revolution.

That's interesting - I didn't know that - though i wonder what associations the tunes evokes in people's minds and whether the tune Abotts Leigh might have been better.

Posted by Felafool (# 270) on :

I visited a synagogue this Saturday, and there was no mention of it there - rather a focus on the 'New Year for Trees'?

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

No mention of it at ours, but we were keeping the Conversion of St Paul as our patronal and it was a confirmation service as well. My uni chaplaincy had a service for it though.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

No mention at mine either but I am quite sure the person who was organising it would want to ask Leo:

Did you do anything for Homelessness Sunday which it was also?

Jengie

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

The intercessor at my place mentioned Homelessness Sunday, but not the Holocaust.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Though Holocaust Memorial Day is far more important to my mind, and I'm not sure I'd have mentioned it if I'd been doing intercessions. I'll try and remember it in future.

As for all these well meaning special Sundays (Hospital Sunday, Prisoners Sunday, Sea Sunday, etc.) I'm not sure whether they all need to be remembered, unless there's a special consciousness raising exercise or a particular connection with the congregation.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
No mention at mine either but I am quite sure the person who was organising it would want to ask Leo:

Did you do anything for Homelessness Sunday which it was also?

Jengie

Good question. There is a continuing issue about the relative importance of special days, usually organised be a secular group versus sticking to the lectionary. (Anyone know that last Thursday was 'National Peanut Butter Day? I briefly thought of it as an illustration of Paul's conversion - not FROM Judaism TO Christianity but from a narrow to a broad Judaism - like moving from smooth to crunchy peanut butter.)

On the main issue: The Christian Church is largely responsible for 2,000 years of antisemitism which paved the way for the holocaust. Because of that, and the need for repentance, I think it 'trumps' homelessness.

Also, quite a lot of Christians are involved in charities like Shelter and in soup runs. Less are involved in dialogue with Jews and many have simplistic views about the relative merits of Zionism and the plight of the Palestinians.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

No, we didn't keep it, not that I had anythingto do with that- it was mentioned in the pewsheet, along with Homelessness Sunday.
To be honest, I've never been able to muster much enthusiasm for HMD. Sure, I can see why the Holocaust and other genocides* are worth commemorating, but it's always seemed to me to be a bit phoney as a national observance here- the kind of thing that New Labour thought was good for us.

*Including the Armenians and the Tasmanian Aborigines, who don't seem to get much of a look in here - though to be fair I've just seen from their website that the HMD Trust do start their discussion of genocide with the Armenians.

[ 28. January 2013, 15:49: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

I have to say that here, outside Europe, the existence of Holocaust Memorial Day is a total mystery. Apart from the Ship, the only reference I've found in Canadian newspapers, for example, was a reference a couple of days later to something happening in Europe (which in th is context includes the UK, for the moment).

As for singing hymns to Austria -- the name by which that tune is called over here -- there may have been some reluctance to use it for the 10-15 years after 1945, but it's the usual tune for several hymns such as Glorious Things Of Thee Are Spoken -- in my particular part of the country, Abbot's Leigh is nearly totally unknown -- and has been for decades.

John

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
Europe (which in th is context includes the UK, for the moment).

What other continent includes the UK and Republic of Ireland, I wonder?

They are always an offshore part of Europe.

The Holocaust/Shoah may have taken place in Europe, but it has ramifications wherever there are Jews or Christians. (I'm sure John H never meant to imply anything else, just that it is not made a big thing of elsewhere. It's not made a big thing of in the UK to be honest. Perhaps it should. Not that it was the only attempt at an ethnic holocaust in history. And not that it necessarily justifies the policies of the state of Israel in every event.)

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
The Deutschlandlied actually predates the Nazi regime by some 150 years. As I'm sure you know, the melody is from a Haydn string quartet. The Nazis retained it as the national anthem, but the words have nothing to do with Nazism or anti-Semitism; they refer to the unification of Germany and date from the 1848 revolution.
That's interesting - I didn't know that - though i wonder what associations the tunes evokes in people's minds and whether the tune Abotts Leigh might have been better.

Come on, this is Haydn we're talking about here- the sane, the beautiful, the utterly humane Haydn. And even if it wasn't, the fact that modern Germany, which has recognised and come to terms with and repented the murky parts of its past to an extent that must be almost unique (cf Japan) uses it as its anthem ought to be proof enough for anyone that the tune has been purged of any unpleasant associations that the Nazis may have managed to put on it. There is another Germany than that of the Holocaust- one which inspired, indeed, some of those whom the Nazis put to death not for their race but for their politics- and if the tune has German associations for you, that's a Germany we can honour by singing it.

[ 28. January 2013, 20:05: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Wasn't Haydn's Emperor Quartet to do with the Emperor of the Austrian Hungarian Empire, and nothing to do with the (later) German Empire?

Haydn's The Creation is the most sublimely innocent music I know.

Now if they sang a hymn to a tune be Wagner, there might be a case for seeing implied anti semiticism...

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

Somebody in the UK wrote a set of words to the Dambusters March. Now that's not a WW2 tune, but the film it was written for was surely not sympathetic to the other side. Assuming (which may be wrong) that the words and music are appropriate for an occasion, ought it to be excluded because of the connotations of the tune or not? I don't know.

As I noted above, in Canada we call the Haydn tune "Austria", precisely because it was written for the Audro-Hungarian empire, long before the Prussian empire was formed.

John

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

The Dambusters raid killed about 1600 people, including quite a lot of prisoners and forced labourers, downstream from the dams. Apparently this kind of attack is now outlawed by the Geneva Conventions if it will unleash forces which will harm civilians.

I am not notably squeamish when it comes to military associations of hymns and other worship practices, but I would be a good deal less happy singing a hymn to the Dambusters March (which is in itself a fine piece of light music) than I would be singing a hymn to a tune by Haydn which happens to be the tune of the national anthem of a country which has one very very dark period in its history.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I've sung the Dambusters hymn. "God is our help a..nd refuge/A present help i..n trouble". It was by some famous Anglican evangelical (probably not Timothy Dudley Smith).

The Haydn tune was called "Austrian Hymn" in the 1908 English Hymnal published while a Kaiser still reigned in Berlin.

Posted by Pre-cambrian (# 2055) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
The Haydn tune was called "Austrian Hymn" in the 1908 English Hymnal published while a Kaiser still reigned in Berlin.

And it's called "Austria" in the New English Hymnal. It was the national anthem of the Austrian empire until 1918. Haydn's tune for the Kaiserlied predates his use of it in the string quartet, but there it is a wonderful example of how a potentially bombastic tune can be used in an utterly unbombastic way.

The national anthem of pre-1918 imperial Germany (Heil dir im Siegerkranz) actually used the tune of "God Save the King/Queen". With the fall of the Habsburg monarchy the new republican rulers of Austria jettisoned the imperial hymn and adopted a new anthem with a new tune, while the new republican rulers of Germany started to use "Austria".

The Liechtenstein national anthem still uses the tune of "God Save the Queen".

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I am not notably squeamish when it comes to military associations of hymns and other worship practices, but I would be a good deal less happy singing a hymn to the Dambusters March

Try having it as the recessional on Remembrance Day, as my parent's church twice did [Eek!]

Posted by Pre-cambrian (# 2055) on :

Probably more appropriate for Battle of Britain Sunday, but does anyone observe that anymore? We last did about 15 years ago.

Posted by Sergius-Melli (# 17462) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
Probably more appropriate for Battle of Britain Sunday, but does anyone observe that anymore? We last did about 15 years ago.

Every year - although not in a really major way as we keep Rememberance Sunday.

[ 29. January 2013, 12:11: Message edited by: Sergius-Melli ]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
I have to say that here, outside Europe, the existence of Holocaust Memorial Day is a total mystery.

That's because it was introduced by Tony Blair - the date is connected with the liberation of Auschwitz bhut Jews already have theirt own day - Yom HaShoah - at a different time of the year.

Incidentally, there is a further irony if the British date - it is the feast of St. John Crysostom. nicknamed 'the golden mouth' for his preaching, he was a strong advocate for the torturing of Jews.

quote:
By making themselves unfit for work, they have become ready for slaughter. This is why Christ said: “ask for my enemies, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them and slay them before me’ (Luke 19.27).”

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
To be honest, I've never been able to muster much enthusiasm for HMD. Sure, I can see why the Holocaust and other genocides* are worth commemorating, but it's always seemed to me to be a bit phoney as a national observance here- the kind of thing that New Labour thought was good for us.

Rowan Williams also thinks it is good for us:

quote:
"Holocaust Memorial Day brings back to our minds the appalling consequences of a situation when people don't speak for their neighbour and don't speak for the stranger, when people are concerned for their own security, their own comfort zones. And when we look back on that tragic history, one of the things that prevents it from being a totally dark night is the presence of some of those who were willing to speak for strangers and to take risks alongside strangers."

(source)

Also, Rev'd David Gifford:

quote:
"With the horrors of Syria and northern Nigeria in the news almost daily, the world still searches for more people to be bridge builders," he said.

"Holocaust Memorial Day this year points very directly to the fact that our common future with reconciliation and peace in our communities will be a pipe dream unless courageous men and women take the risky and costly path of reaching out to those who are different from themselves."

(source)

The US Methodist Church urges Christians to keep the Jewish day, Yom HaShoah:

quote:
The United Methodist Church to contrition and repentance of its complicity in “the long history of persecution of the Jewish people” and asks the General Commission on Christian Unity and Interreligious Concerns to give special programmatic emphasis to Holocaust awareness and to prepare resources for use in local congregations, annual conferences, and their Conference Commissions on Christian Unity and Interreligious Concerns or equivalent structures to enable them to become more aware of the Holocaust and its impact, and

Be it further resolved, as a sign of our contrition and our solidarity with the Jewish community, the General Conference urges the promotion of observance of Yom HaShoah, Holocaust Memorial Day

The Book of Resolutions, 2004

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Good for them. All I'm saying is that it doesn't do much for me.
But BTW the UMC acknowledging its complicity in “the long history of persecution of the Jewish people”. Really? The UMC? I'm sure there have been UMC (and Methodist in general) anti-semites - there certainly are and have been Methodist racists- but the UMC as a church persecuting anybody? Come on. Surely this is at best well-intentioned 'we-are-all-guilty' stuff which risks drawing attention away from those who really are guilty (in varying degrees) and at worst a bit of masochistic guilt-chic?

[ 29. January 2013, 16:19: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

The UMC are part of the wider church catholic. That all denominations are linked to 2,000 years of antisemitism is reason enough.

Also, most churches are unaware of the unwitting anti-semitism in their liturgies and hymnody - e.g. the palm Sunday hymn 'My song ls live unknown' or the Advent hymn about Jews 'deeply wailing'.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

I think one sees in these things whatever one is inclined to see in them.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I think one sees in these things whatever one is inclined to see in them.

But the Jews who were murdered didn't have the luxury of seeing different thoughts - they were killed by those who saw things in only one way.

Do you honestly think that there is a credible interpretation of history that doesn't implicate Christianity in run up to the Holocaust? That Christians have nothing to repent of on this score? That ignoring is better than remembering?

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Just as you may be seeing those hymns in only one way? Not of course that that would lead you to do anything vile- quite the opposite- but it's a rather selective interpretation.

(i) No, or at least not one without some version of Christianity in it
(ii) As repentance is normally understood, most have not, on their own account, though we do need to recognise what our forebears did and didn't do, and some particular strands which may have been more heavily and directly involved than others. But even within specific Christian traditions, the relationship to the Jews and specifically the responsibility for and response to persecution can be rather a mixed picture, can't it? ISTM to be as problematic to identify yourself overwhelmingly with the oppressors as it would be to identify yourself overwhelmingly with those who challenged oppression. We're heirs of both. It doesn't mean we're responsible for what happened: it does mean we're responsible for making sure it doesn't continue to happen or happen again.
(iii) Remembering, yes; acknowledging that you are the inheritor of a complex and sometimes unpleasant past, yes; being aware of what can happen if things go wrong and of the need to ensure that they don't, yes; beating yourself up, no.

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