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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Defections from the Ordinariate
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Intrepid Thurifer
Shipmate
# 77
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Posted
I was wondering if any Anglican priests or laity have defected from the Ordinariate and returned top the Anglican Communion. Host; I am not sure if I have posted in the right area.
Posts: 142 | From: Melbourne Australia | Registered: May 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
I don't know the answer to this, but can I offer the hope that no-one has?
My reasons are twofold. First of all, if someone has been so unhappy at the prospect of women bishops, or so eager to become a "true" Catholic, that they have made this move, then I hope that they will have found it all that they desired. To switch back again will mean that they are still unhappy and lacking somewhere that they feel to be a spiritual home. And to be honest, I doubt that the C of E can be such a home for such people.
Secondly, I have to be honest and say that I think that the C of E will be a better place without them. I don't mean this in a vindictive way, but it has been long clear that the C of E could no longer hold together the huge majority that wants women bishops AND those who are so strenuously against women priests. It will be far better for all concerned once it is clear where the C of E stands in this matter. The attempt to keep all on board has clearly failed. It's time to move on. If someone returns from the Ordinariate, they will have to do so on the understanding that they are returning to a Church that welcomes women priests and bishops.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Intrepid Thurifer:
I was wondering if any Anglican priests or laity have defected from the Ordinariate and returned top the Anglican Communion. Host; I am not sure if I have posted in the right area.
Not as far as I'm aware. The process of joining is such that only those who have little doubt that they should, do so. For example the TEC parish of St. Timothy's in Catonsville, Maryland has only just had it's final vote in favour of joining the Ordinariate after several months of discernment, despite the OCSP having been established for over a year now. Nobody is going in blind and the point is hammered home ad nauseum that no one should join who isn't convinced that it is the correct thing to do.
Often with reverts to Anglicanism it has been a case of culture clash and feelings of isolation in the far larger environment of the diocesan Latin Church. This is not really an issue in the Ordinariate environment.
This said things don't always work out for everyone despite best intentions. I'm sure in the future there will be some people who leave for whatever reasons as happens in every body/organisation. Such is life.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Dunno about the Ordinariate but I have met people who left the CofE for RC and came back again.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Net Spinster
Shipmate
# 16058
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Posted
If some return it may be because they went because of family or friendship (e.g., children who went with their parents or congregants who went along with most of the rest of the congregation). However laity returning unless prominent aren't likely to be noticed (it isn't as though the Anglicans or Episcopalians require a rite to rejoin).
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spinner of webs
Posts: 1093 | From: San Francisco Bay area | Registered: Dec 2010
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Sergius-Melli
Shipmate
# 17462
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Net Spinster:
If some return it may be because they went because of family or friendship (e.g., children who went with their parents or congregants who went along with most of the rest of the congregation). However laity returning unless prominent aren't likely to be noticed (it isn't as though the Anglicans or Episcopalians require a rite to rejoin).
There is a rite for receiving Roman Catholics into the Church in Wales, although it's not particularly flashy. Although I'm not sure about what happens if they were previously Anglicans...
[ 21. February 2013, 12:30: Message edited by: Sergius-Melli ]
Posts: 722 | From: Sneaking across Welsh hill and dale with a thurible in hand | Registered: Dec 2012
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Mark Betts
Ship's Navigation Light
# 17074
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Posted
I know the OP was questioning whether Anglicans who joined the Ordinariate ever returned to the Anglican Communion. But who's to say that a few might not finish up Eastern Orthodox? - particularly if the Western Rite liturgy becomes more popular.
The problem with returning to Anglicanism is that it would call one's integrity into question, since the issues which caused one to leave show no signs of ever being resolved. I think there's more to it than just women bishops.
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"We are not some casual and meaningless product of evolution. Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, each of us is necessary."
Posts: 2080 | From: Leicester | Registered: Apr 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Dunno about the Ordinariate but I have met people who left the CofE for RC and came back again.
AN Wilson did, years ago, I believe.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sergius-Melli:
There is a rite for receiving Roman Catholics into the Church in Wales, although it's not particularly flashy. Although I'm not sure about what happens if they were previously Anglicans...
There's a rite in the Book of Common Prayer that requires converts from Catholicism to abjure the Bishop of Rome. Don't know if it's still used ... ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
There's a rite in the Book of Common Prayer that requires converts from Catholicism to abjure the Bishop of Rome. Don't know if it's still used ...
If it's in the BCP no doubt it could still be used. But more friendly perhaps is the CofE 'Reception into the CofE' ceremony. Low-key, earnest and, to use a former poster's phrase, 'unflashy'!
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
I know the OP was questioning whether Anglicans who joined the Ordinariate ever returned to the Anglican Communion. But who's to say that a few might not finish up Eastern Orthodox? - particularly if the Western Rite liturgy becomes more popular.
The problem with returning to Anglicanism is that it would call one's integrity into question, since the issues which caused one to leave show no signs of ever being resolved. I think there's more to it than just women bishops.
Well, there's the problem of the integrity of those leaving. The rector of St. Timothy's isn't going to retire from the Episcopal priesthood until April 1st, despite his declaration that he is going over to the ordinariate, implicitly declaring that he is not a priest.
If you don't think you a priest, don't act as one in our churches, thank you.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Oxonian Ecclesiastic
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# 12722
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Posted
quote:
There's a rite in the Book of Common Prayer that requires converts from Catholicism to abjure the Bishop of Rome.
No there is not.
Posts: 174 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2007
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Percy B
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# 17238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Intrepid Thurifer:
I was wondering if any Anglican priests or laity have defected from the Ordinariate and returned top the Anglican Communion. Host; I am not sure if I have posted in the right area.
I know of at least three laity, one of them a friend, who have come back to the Church of England after going to the RC Ordinariate.
The Ordinariate makes something of those entering it. the C of E tends to follow the Anglican patrimony tradition of discretion!
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Mary, a priest??
Posts: 582 | From: Nudrug | Registered: Jul 2012
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by Intrepid Thurifer:
I was wondering if any Anglican priests or laity have defected from the Ordinariate and returned top the Anglican Communion. Host; I am not sure if I have posted in the right area.
I know of at least three laity, one of them a friend, who have come back to the Church of England after going to the RC Ordinariate.
The Ordinariate makes something of those entering it. the C of E tends to follow the Anglican patrimony tradition of discretion!
We in the Italian mission to the Irish do tend to be awfully gauche. Celebrating the return of prodigals does smack dreadfully of "enthusiasm".
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Ronald Binge
Shipmate
# 9002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
quote:
Originally posted by Percy B:
quote:
Originally posted by Intrepid Thurifer:
I was wondering if any Anglican priests or laity have defected from the Ordinariate and returned top the Anglican Communion. Host; I am not sure if I have posted in the right area.
I know of at least three laity, one of them a friend, who have come back to the Church of England after going to the RC Ordinariate.
The Ordinariate makes something of those entering it. the C of E tends to follow the Anglican patrimony tradition of discretion!
We in the Italian mission to the Irish do tend to be awfully gauche. Celebrating the return of prodigals does smack dreadfully of "enthusiasm".
So, is it Fr. or Deacon CL then? Not that I've ever heard the phrase "Italian Mission" ever applied anywhere in Ireland.
Posts: 477 | From: Brexit's frontline | Registered: Jan 2005
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
From CL: We in the Italian mission to the Irish do tend to be awfully gauche. Celebrating the return of prodigals does smack dreadfully of "enthusiasm".
quote:
So, is it Fr. or Deacon CL then? Not that I've ever heard the phrase "Italian Mission" ever applied anywhere in Ireland.
It might possibly be slightly flattering to think of oneself and other co-religionists as mission objects of the Bishop of Rome to be saved from our prodigal- son status! Clap-trap, of course. But still rather sweet.
Nevertheless, my preference would be that Christians should show 'enthusiasm' about one another as a matter or course, not merely because they happen to enjoy the same flavour of church institution.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ronald Binge
Shipmate
# 9002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
From CL: We in the Italian mission to the Irish do tend to be awfully gauche. Celebrating the return of prodigals does smack dreadfully of "enthusiasm".
quote:
So, is it Fr. or Deacon CL then? Not that I've ever heard the phrase "Italian Mission" ever applied anywhere in Ireland.
It might possibly be slightly flattering to think of oneself and other co-religionists as mission objects of the Bishop of Rome to be saved from our prodigal- son status! Clap-trap, of course. But still rather sweet.
Nevertheless, my preference would be that Christians should show 'enthusiasm' about one another as a matter or course, not merely because they happen to enjoy the same flavour of church institution.
Indeed. I do extend a cordial offer of a pint or a coffee, especially to those I've attempted to cross swords with..
Irish meet and truce anyone?
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Older, bearded (but no wiser)
Posts: 477 | From: Brexit's frontline | Registered: Jan 2005
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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
If someone returns from the Ordinariate, they will have to do so on the understanding that they are returning to a Church that welcomes women priests and bishops.
quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
The problem with returning to Anglicanism is that it would call one's integrity into question, since the issues which caused one to leave show no signs of ever being resolved. I think there's more to it than just women bishops .
Both these statements are self-evidently true. I don't know of anyone who has returned to the C of E, but I know of some, myself included, who don't often worship with the Ordinariate, but have assimilated into the mainstream of the Catholic Church. The Ordinariate is still something I passionately believe in, and there is absolutely no problem with a different style of worship within the Church, but I have come to mostly prefer Catholic patrinmony to worrying about what, of Anglican practices, we can bring with us. I know of at least two people who have joined the Catholic Church, and later gone back to the Church of England, but not from within the Ordinariate.
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oxonian Ecclesiastic:
quote:
There's a rite in the Book of Common Prayer that requires converts from Catholicism to abjure the Bishop of Rome.
No there is not.
You seem to be correct. However a relative of mine reports attending an Anglican confirmation service in the 1960s which did indeed include the phrase.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I don't know of anyone who has returned to the C of E, but I know of some, myself included, who don't often worship with the Ordinariate, but have assimilated into the mainstream of the Catholic Church. The Ordinariate is still something I passionately believe in, and there is absolutely no problem with a different style of worship within the Church, but I have come to mostly prefer Catholic patrinmony to worrying about what, of Anglican practices, we can bring with us.
That does rather beg the question of why not just join the RC church in the traditional manner in the first place.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by Oxonian Ecclesiastic:
quote:
There's a rite in the Book of Common Prayer that requires converts from Catholicism to abjure the Bishop of Rome.
No there is not.
You seem to be correct. However a relative of mine reports attending an Anglican confirmation service in the 1960s which did indeed include the phrase.
The bit about renouncing evil (which is still in?)
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Before the Ordinariate, Bishop Clarence Pope* retired as the Episcopal Bishop of Fort Worth (Texas) in 1994 and joined the R.C. Church. Then he swam back over the Tiber to the Episcopal Church, but changed his mind once again and went back to Rome in 2007, where he stayed until his death five years later.
*Yes, really, that was his last name!
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Dunno about the Ordinariate but I have met people who left the CofE for RC and came back again.
...amongst them quite a number of clergy, but I am not aware of the statistics.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Before the Ordinariate, Bishop Clarence Pope* retired as the Episcopal Bishop of Fort Worth (Texas) in 1994 and joined the R.C. Church. Then he swam back over the Tiber to the Episcopal Church, but changed his mind once again and went back to Rome in 2007, where he stayed until his death five years later.
*Yes, really, that was his last name!
A truly tragic figure. He was treated appallingly after his first trip over the Tiber; the uber-liberal clergy of the Diocese of Baton Rouge essentially vetoed his ordination. That prompted his return to ECUSA. His subsequent waywardness was due in no small part to his mental deterioration from the chemo and radio therapy he received for aggressive prostate cancer. When he died the common consensus was that at least now the poor man would finally be at peace.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I think the Bishop of Albany left to go the the RC church, but it was well before the ordinariate appeared (possibly even before Benedict actually). I think he went back to the Episci's and to my knowledge is still there if not retired
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I think the Bishop of Albany left to go the the RC church, but it was well before the ordinariate appeared (possibly even before Benedict actually). I think he went back to the Episci's and to my knowledge is still there if not retired
Daniel Herzog. He went back to TEC because he was told in no uncertain terms that as he had left the RCC as an adult he was not eligible for ordination.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
I'm told that a number of the laity who left St Michael's West Croydon with the vicar when he went over to the Ordinariate have since returned.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
I am not entirely surprised. In a sense that particular church, and some might get my meaning, might have been just a little too 'high' to have been comfortable with Rome - ecclesiology notwithstanding.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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HenryT
Canadian Anglican
# 3722
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Posted
I note that the "Traditional Anglican Communion " Anglican-Catholic Church of Canada, a "Continuing Anglican " body, split over the Ordinariate, with some parishes going in, and some not. I haven't seen any of my acquaintances who were AACC to ask what they're doing.
I'm ignorant of any general availability of the Ordinariate to the Anglican Church of Canada or ANIC.
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"Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned" P. Henry, 1788
Posts: 7231 | From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Dec 2002
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Indifferently
Shipmate
# 17517
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Posted
Surely the Anglican communion now realizes it is in a serious state of crisis, and needs to return to the faith of the orthodox, catholic faith as testified by the Early Church Ecumenical Councils and Church Fathers? The vast majority of ANGLICANS in the world have not consented to the sorts of abominable innovations the C of E and TEC have pursued of late. GAFCON will unilaterallypull out of the Anglican communion most certainly now that the English Church has rejected the Covenant. They will unseat Canterbury of his position as figurehead.
All the while we continue to play nice with the Church of Rome and their Ordinariate, which is their way of telling us the shark smells blood in the water. So many faithful Christians are tired of perpetual uncertainty that they wish to subject themselves to the manifold errors of popish religion.
What has happened to this country?
Posts: 288 | From: United Kingdom | Registered: Jan 2013
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Oh, golly.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Oh, golly.
It's like some sort of offensive buzz word bingo, isn't it?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
Perhaps a kindly host might move the thread to the Circus so we could play. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oxonian Ecclesiastic:
quote:
There's a rite in the Book of Common Prayer that requires converts from Catholicism to abjure the Bishop of Rome.
No there is not.
Rather, it was published in certain 18th century editions of the Church of Ireland BCP, though I can't seem to find a text. The Canadian Book of Occasional Offices rite of 1964 is more temperate, requiring only the renunciation of any previous affiliation (no particular body is named, but one doubts large numbers of Orthodox or Old Catholics were being received in 1964) and profession of the Anglican Communion as a part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
(In the BAS, confirmation, reception, and reaffirmation are presented as a seamless rite, differing only the wording of the prayer said over the candidates by the bishop - or priest in the case of a service with no confirmands, as at my own reception).
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Intrepid Thurifer
Shipmate
# 77
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Posted
The Ordinarate in Australia is so miniscule, So those that left where hardly even missed. 4 Anglican Communion priest are the only ones that ahve left and they were all from Melbourne and SSC. The remainder are a few TAc priests. There appears to be about 4 ordinariate parishes in Australia. I believe that the ordinariate in Australia will ceases to exist in twenty years time as the current priest will have died out as they were reasonably old when they joined. The only ordinariate parish in Melbourne is not centrally located for a gathered congregation
Posts: 142 | From: Melbourne Australia | Registered: May 2001
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k-mann
Shipmate
# 8490
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by CL:
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I think the Bishop of Albany left to go the the RC church, but it was well before the ordinariate appeared (possibly even before Benedict actually). I think he went back to the Episci's and to my knowledge is still there if not retired
Daniel Herzog. He went back to TEC because he was told in no uncertain terms that as he had left the RCC as an adult he was not eligible for ordination.
Which, quite frankly, doesn’t seem like a good excuse. Had the reasons he left the TEC vanished? Is being a priest a right?
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"Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt."
— Paul Tillich
Katolikken
Posts: 1314 | From: Norway | Registered: Sep 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Surely the Anglican communion now realizes it is in a serious state of crisis, and needs to return to the faith of the orthodox, catholic faith as testified by the Early Church Ecumenical Councils and Church Fathers? The vast majority of ANGLICANS in the world have not consented to the sorts of abominable innovations the C of E and TEC have pursued of late. GAFCON will unilaterallypull out of the Anglican communion most certainly now that the English Church has rejected the Covenant. They will unseat Canterbury of his position as figurehead.
All the while we continue to play nice with the Church of Rome and their Ordinariate, which is their way of telling us the shark smells blood in the water. So many faithful Christians are tired of perpetual uncertainty that they wish to subject themselves to the manifold errors of popish religion.
What has happened to this country?
Indifferently, I would like to draw your attention to the ship's ten commandments - specifically commandments 2 & 5. Whilst persistent sectarianism, as a posting pattern, would risk being construed as a commandment 8 violation.
Doublethink
Purgatory Host
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by k-mann:
...Is being a priest a right?
Heh, I've known priests and aspiring priests that seem to think so. It's the ones that think they have a right to be a bishop that you have to watch out for. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Manipled Mutineer
Shipmate
# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HenryT:
I note that the "Traditional Anglican Communion " Anglican-Catholic Church of Canada, a "Continuing Anglican " body, split over the Ordinariate, with some parishes going in, and some not. I haven't seen any of my acquaintances who were AACC to ask what they're doing.
I'm ignorant of any general availability of the Ordinariate to the Anglican Church of Canada or ANIC.
I'm not sure what you had in mind but there is a Canadian Deanery of the US Ordinariate extant and I am sure they welcome Anglicans of any stripe or affiliation.
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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CL
Shipmate
# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
quote:
Originally posted by HenryT:
I note that the "Traditional Anglican Communion " Anglican-Catholic Church of Canada, a "Continuing Anglican " body, split over the Ordinariate, with some parishes going in, and some not. I haven't seen any of my acquaintances who were AACC to ask what they're doing.
I'm ignorant of any general availability of the Ordinariate to the Anglican Church of Canada or ANIC.
I'm not sure what you had in mind but there is a Canadian Deanery of the US Ordinariate extant and I am sure they welcome Anglicans of any stripe or affiliation.
The first Canadian group to enter the Ordinariate was the former ACC parish of St. John the Evangelist in Calgary; indeed their priest is the new Dean. I believe there is at least one former ANiC priest in formation for Ordinariate at the moment along with the bulk of the Romeward-bound TAC clergy.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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Manipled Mutineer
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# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
quote:
We in the Italian mission to the Irish...
So, is it Fr. or Deacon CL then? Not that I've ever heard the phrase "Italian Mission" ever applied anywhere in Ireland. [/QB]
There's no particular reason why you would; the gibe being a specifically Anglo-centric one, the meat of which is that the Catholic Church in England is an alien Church, of aliens (the Italians) and for aliens (the Irish).
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Augustine the Aleut
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# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Manipled Mutineer:
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
quote:
We in the Italian mission to the Irish...
So, is it Fr. or Deacon CL then? Not that I've ever heard the phrase "Italian Mission" ever applied anywhere in Ireland.
There's no particular reason why you would; the gibe being a specifically Anglo-centric one, the meat of which is that the Catholic Church in England is an alien Church, of aliens (the Italians) and for aliens (the Irish). [/QB]
One would occasionally hear the RCC referred to as the Italian Mission in the confines of the College Theological Society (the Theo) at Trinity College Dublin, but it was what the constructivists call self-referential ludic discourse-- in plain English, people were mocking themselves and the Church of Ireland's classical position by referring to the very indigenous church of the majority of the Irish as something foreign.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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PaulTH*
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# 320
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
the Italian mission to the Irish
The number of Catholics in this country prior to Catholic Emancipation in 1829 was quite small after hundreds of years of persecution, but I was surprised to find from this website that there were more than a thousand Catholics around Soho in 1780. After the Oxford Movement, quite a few intellectuals, notably Cardinals Manning and Newman increased the numbers, but it was mass immigration from Ireland during the famine of 1845-1850 and its aftermath, which seriously boosted the numbers of British Catholics, and many priests from Italy came to minister to this congregation, hence the perception of Italians ministering to Irish. But this is all a bit passe and a hundred years out of date.
The Irish have always easily assimilated into British society, usually losing any separate sense of identity after a generation. Other waves of immigration from Italy and Poland (first in WW2 and more recently with EU membership) have added to the numbers, as have a steady stream of converts, though this is, admittedly, a two way street. But here you will see that, in 2008, 74.6% of British Catholics self identify as White British, 9.5% as White East European and 4.4% as White Irish. So whatever the history, todays Catholic Church in the UK is as British as any other organisation.
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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JoannaP
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# 4493
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Posted
PaulTH,
That is true but every time I wall along Victoria Street, I am struck by how un-English Westminster Cathedral is. It seems to me that 'HQ of the Italian Mission' is quite an apt title for that building.
Joanna
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Manipled Mutineer
Shipmate
# 11514
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
PaulTH,
That is true but every time I wall along Victoria Street, I am struck by how un-English Westminster Cathedral is. It seems to me that 'HQ of the Italian Mission' is quite an apt title for that building.
Joanna
But the inspiration of Westminster Cathedral is not Roman, or even Italian at all but Byzantine. And when so much insular ecclesiastical architecture is imported does it really make sense (pace Pugin) to mark one out as being more foreign than another?
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Collecting Catholic and Anglo-
Catholic books
Posts: 1533 | From: Glamorgan, UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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CL
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# 16145
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
PaulTH,
That is true but every time I wall along Victoria Street, I am struck by how un-English Westminster Cathedral is. It seems to me that 'HQ of the Italian Mission' is quite an apt title for that building.
Joanna
If one is just going by WC's architectural style, "HQ of the Greek Mission" would be more accurate.
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"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ." - Athanasius of Alexandria
Posts: 647 | From: Ireland | Registered: Jan 2011
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JoannaP
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# 4493
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Posted
Fair enough. European ecclesiastical architecture is not my strong point and it is a lovely building.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
Unusual bowel movements?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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