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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Catching the Spirit?
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
It’s Pentecost, talk of the Spirit coming and the development of the church as told through Acts and with Cwmbran debate bubbling along as well I am reflecting on the idea of passing on the Spirit.
Can you catch the Spirit?
Should we seek out places where the Spirit is perceived to be active in order to get someone from there to bring back?
And what about the blessing or healing being imparted by way of a cloth or handkerchief that has come from the place or person in question?
If the Spirit moves where she chooses then where is the need to catch a blessing by touch or presence like a virus? And yet it is a pattern that is seen, including in the Bible.
Acts 8 has the people of Samaria believing and the Jerusalem church sending Peter and John to them who ‘prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them’ (v 15-16) In the next verse a link is made specifically between the laying on of hands and the receiving of the Spirit. Such a clear link that Simon the sorcerer wants to know the trick.
Meanwhile in Acts 5 people are looking to Peter’s shadow in search of healings.
Whereas in Cornelius’ house the outpouring of the Spirit ‘unprompted’ was taken as proof that this radical move is of God (Acts 10 & 11)
Being present where something dramatic is occurring will have an effect on you, increase belief and expectation etc. and going home with that enthusiasm will impact others – but is this the Spirit’s blessing being imparted or natural human responses that make people more open?
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
Aren't the answers to your last two questions both "yes" - i.e. Christians are human beings, so we can never divorce the moving of the Spirit from human actions, they go hand-in-hand?
Personally I am wary of saying that one must physically go to Azusa Street/Toronto/Cwmbran to "bring back the blessing". That's partly because I am not very happy with the idea of "godly tourism (for the rich)" and its concomitant "celebrity effect"; and partly because we all live in different cultural settings and the Spirit's manifestation at A should probably be somewhat different to, rather than identical with, his moving at B.
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Personally I am wary of saying that one must physically go to Azusa Street/Toronto/Cwmbran to "bring back the blessing". That's partly because I am not very happy with the idea of "godly tourism (for the rich)" and its concomitant "celebrity effect"; and partly because we all live in different cultural settings and the Spirit's manifestation at A should probably be somewhat different to, rather than identical with, his moving at B.
On the historical matter of Azusa Street, my understanding is that it was thanks to curious visitors arriving from around the country and from abroad that Pentecostal spirituality and ideas travelled so quickly, because these visitors went home and took these things with them. Of course, many will see this development as a bad thing; many won't.
I don't entirely understand the Pentecostal concept of 'catching' the Holy Spirit, since the Holy Spirit is said to dwell within all who call Jesus Lord, and so isn't something that happens on particular, spiritually charged occasions. See 1 Corinthians 12:3. On the other hand, Christians in historical churches happily sing 'Spirit of the living God, fall afresh on me', which does make it sound as though the Holy Spirit's presence within us can somehow be topped up every now and again. What's the difference? Is it just a question of style?
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I don't like the idea very much that we can 'catch' or 'summon' the Holy Spirit. To me it smacks to much like ordering it (him? her?) around. We can ask the Spirit to accompany us (even if I believe it always does), or we can open ourselves up to it.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Makes the Holy Spirit sound like a virus, or a fish, or a man at the Sadie Hawkins Day picnic.
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
... is this the Spirit’s blessing being imparted or natural human responses that make people more open?
People receive the Spirit when there is nothing they want more, nothing they believe in more.
This can happen at any time or any place.
It tends to happen more where other believers are because they will have the words, signs and wonders to inspire faith and desire.
Healings are not carried by handkerchiefs or hands, these things can help people believe, that's what makes room for God to work. In Acts 2 and 10 the Spirit is received without laying on of hands. The Acts 10 receiving is not "un-propmted" since Peter is there, preaching and himself showing the confidence that comes from God, this inspires faith and desire.
God knows the heart and he goes where he is welcomed.
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
English Standard Version (©2001)
The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
So you can't pin it down. I mean how dare it be a non-predictable free agent? I want a recognisable brand with some consistency.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
People receive the Spirit when there is nothing they want more, nothing they believe in more.
This can happen at any time or any place.
It tends to happen more where other believers are because they will have the words, signs and wonders to inspire faith and desire.
If God, at least in part, does his work when there is more faith (which I think is the case, but I know plenty of people disagree) then the 'chase the Spirit' ethos does make sense.
One could say that God seems to be working powerfully at the moment in this or that place, initially perhaps as a response to a few people's fervent, persistent prayers and now, following on, because many people have increased faith for God to work in miraculous ways.
Obviously, with any so-called 'move of the Spirit' there's also the very real possibility of manipulation, suggestibility or (a more charitable angle) over-enthusiasm and insufficient scrutiny of claimed miracles.
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Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Healings are not carried by handkerchiefs or hands, these things can help people believe, that's what makes room for God to work. In Acts 2 and 10 the Spirit is received without laying on of hands. The Acts 10 receiving is not "un-propmted" since Peter is there, preaching and himself showing the confidence that comes from God, this inspires faith and desire.
God knows the heart and he goes where he is welcomed. [/QB]
But what does that make the prayer cloths? Isn't there a danger of .... trying to find the right word... not idols but supersititous understanding? And like the relics of old that as a well bred non-conformist I also don't like the theology of.
I used the term 'unprompted' regarding Acts 10 as the Spirit was not invoked as such and Peter cites it as evidence of God's choice to include them in the same way as the other believers.
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
My old pastor used to say,"Get under the spout where the glory comes out".
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
Isn't there a danger of .... trying to find the right word... not idols but supersititous understanding? And like the relics of old that as a well bred non-conformist I also don't like the theology of.
I used the term 'unprompted' regarding Acts 10 as the Spirit was not invoked as such and Peter cites it as evidence of God's choice to include them in the same way as the other believers.
Prayer cloths are probably people copying what happened with Paul, without his faith or results.
God's plan is that we receive the infilling of his Spirit, like all the disciples (Acts 2:4, 33), and all those they were sent to (Acts 10:44-46, 19:1-6) then live that new life, part of which means being in a church that operates the gifts and ministries as detailed in 1 Corinthians 14.
If you do this your faith will grow and you will see the signs, wonders and miracles you need.
If your faith gets particularly strong you could even do as Peter did and have people putting sick folk in your shadow. But are you doing the other bits first?
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wishandaprayer
Shipmate
# 17673
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
People receive the Spirit when there is nothing they want more, nothing they believe in more.
This can happen at any time or any place.
It tends to happen more where other believers are because they will have the words, signs and wonders to inspire faith and desire.
If God, at least in part, does his work when there is more faith (which I think is the case, but I know plenty of people disagree) then the 'chase the Spirit' ethos does make sense.
NJA - Or do people receive the Spirit at the point of salvation? Surely faith, being described as a gift of the Spirit means there must be a work of the Spirit? It's a shame because for people who have been desiring a visitation of the Holy Spirit, and who have genuinely desired it, like myself and some of my friends, but have had "nothing", we feel rebuffed with a "well your desire must not have been strong enough, eagerly desire it".
South Coast Kevin - Not to disregard what you're saying, I think there is something in it, but the problem with this to me is that it does lead to the question, if miracles/signs/manifestation of the Spirit does not occur, "was there enough faith?" It's just so wonderfully intangible, that it can seem like a smokescreen that magicians use to misdirect the audience from the move that is actually happening (I'm speaking metaphorically).
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wishandaprayer:
NJA - Or do people receive the Spirit at the point of salvation?
Indeed, "salvation" means deliverance.
New Testament salvation is to be delivered from being "in the flesh", mortal, alienated from God, to being "in the Spirit", "born again"... by receiving the Spirit, as detailed in Scripture - Acts 2:4, 33, John 3:8 etc.
Until you have had this experience, you don't have New Testament salvation - Romans 8:8-9, Titus 3:5.
quote:
Originally posted by wishandaprayer:
Surely faith, being described as a gift of the Spirit means there must be a work of the Spirit?
"The devils believe", the Pharisees believed in God, Paul warns of those who preach "another Jesus", unlike their message ... just because a person believes does not mean they have received the Spirit. The heart of man is deceitful above all things (Jer. 17:9) indeed Jesus warns that the majority of people that call Him their Lord will be told, "I never knew you", then they will protect about how they ate and drank in his presence, listed to his teaching and did his works - these are not atheists, these are "church-goers".
The apostles never judged that people had received the Spirit because they make a confession / profession of faith in Jesus, they waited for God to bare the heart independent witness with his sign of speaking in tongues, that's how they knew precisely when people received God's (invisible) Spirit.
quote:
Originally posted by wishandaprayer:
It's a shame because for people who have been desiring a visitation of the Holy Spirit, and who have genuinely desired it, like myself and some of my friends, but have had "nothing", we feel rebuffed with a "well your desire must not have been strong enough, eagerly desire it".
Do you believe you are already saved?
If so you won't be whole-hearted.
The shame is on those who tell people they are "saved", "Christians" without the infilling of the Spirit, speaking in tongues ... and those who choose to believe that even when shown it is error.
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wishandaprayer:
South Coast Kevin - Not to disregard what you're saying, I think there is something in it, but the problem with this to me is that it does lead to the question, if miracles/signs/manifestation of the Spirit does not occur, "was there enough faith?"
Yeah, it does lead to that question, to be honest. Indeed, on one occasion Jesus cited lack of faith as a reason for why he couldn't do much miraculous work somewhere (around Capernaum, was it?). But we mustn't judge - I certainly don't think lack of faith is the only reason for God's power not being evident in any particular place / community.
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
The shame is on those who tell people they are "saved", "Christians" without the infilling of the Spirit, speaking in tongues ... and those who choose to believe that even when shown it is error.
Steady on, NJA! Are you really saying anyone who does not speak in tongues is destined for eternity without God? That's strong stuff...
Anyway, didn't Paul clearly suggest that not everyone will speak in tongues? (Forget the exact reference, 1 Cor 14 I think.)
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I think this conversation is straying in the wrong direction.
We are not talking here about "when do you receive the Spirit" or "Second blessings" - that is another (rather well-worn) conversation.
The issue is to with how one does - or does not - "catch [or pass on] the wind of the Spirit" when He seems to be blowing particularly strongly in a specific place.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
I think this conversation is straying in the wrong direction.
We are not talking here about "when do you receive the Spirit" or "Second blessings" - that is another (rather well-worn) conversation.
The issue is to with how one does - or does not - "catch [or pass on] the wind of the Spirit" when He seems to be blowing particularly strongly in a specific place.
As a starting point, then; what makes you think The Holy Spirit ever appears 'particularly strongly in a specific place'?
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
Thank you NJA for branding any who don't speak in tongues as not Christians and our churches as unworthy of the name.
Blessings to you.
What about measuring the Spirit's work in someone's life by the fruits of it, or the wider rather than the dramatic gifts? I for one would find the gift of administration very helpful in developing my prayer life beyond the 'please let me find...' I might have more time for reflection ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
And there is the little matter of eagerly desiring the greater gifts... and the greatest of these is love.
Wishandaprayer -
In my understanding and experience that the Spirit can come as a gentle dove as well as the burning fire.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
The dramatic gifts, as described just above, cannot possibly have been understood as the proofs of The Holy Spirit in the first centuries of Christendom. When Paul writes to the Galations, he doesn't mentions 'tongues', etc. at all in that context.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
As a starting point, then; what makes you think The Holy Spirit ever appears 'particularly strongly in a specific place'?
K.
The places that gather this reputation are generally reporting 'signs and wonders'. So do we react more to the showier gifts of the Spirit? Why? - human fascination with spectacle, mixed up with hope, the desire for a touchable visible sign of God?
What if we were to rush and gather at places that showed an outbreak simply of love, kindness, gentleness - I'd be keen to bring a bit of that back to some of our churches!!
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
It'd be strange indeed if the "guarantee" was something so easily faked, intentionally or not.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
What if we were to rush and gather at places that showed an outbreak simply of love, kindness, gentleness - I'd be keen to bring a bit of that back to some of our churches!!
Oh yes. To the Quotes File!
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
The issue is to with how one does - or does not - "catch [or pass on] the wind of the Spirit" when He seems to be blowing particularly strongly in a specific place.
There is a saying quote:
It's not how much of the Holy Spirit you have, it's how much of you the Holy Spirit has
I think that some people "catch" the idea that they need to open themselves up far more than they have so far.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
... didn't Paul clearly suggest that not everyone will speak in tongues? (Forget the exact reference, 1 Cor 14 I think.)
Paul was talking in the context (since 1 Cor. 11) of a public meeting of the church. He says this because that's precisely what they were doing.
If only some could speak in tongues the problem could not have arisen!
The main purpose of tongues is private prayer "in the Spirit" as detailed in 1 Cor. 14, something all Christians did then, and now.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
The main purpose of tongues is private prayer "in the Spirit" as detailed in 1 Cor. 14, something all Christians did then, and now.
No, that's not what Paul says.
Every Christian has a range of spiritual gifts (I'm quite prepared to accept that some of them perhaps need to be discovered).
No Christian has all the gifts (the lists in the NT are not exhaustive anyway).
And no gift is possessed by every Christian.
So praying in tongues (and I do it) is something which some Christians did, then and now.
Once again, this sort of question isn't what this thread is about.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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wishandaprayer
Shipmate
# 17673
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Posted
Sorry, I pulled this conversation a little off topic.
NJA - I'll have to join most of modern-day christendom in disagreeing with you, but that topic is, of course, a dead horse.
Back to topic - Komensky - your question ties nicely to the Celtic concept of 'Thin Places'; and indeed, to pilgrimage sites as well. I have been to some of these places, and personally didn't feel anything different in these places.
However, I have also been in meetings where there is (apparently) a "heavy" presence of God in the room, and I have "felt" nothing. Not to make the Spirit's work experientially based, but a lot of people use that as their starting point for explaining His presence.
Now, the idea that the Spirit's work can be "caught" or "transferred" (and this all smacks of "revival" talk) really relies on there being an objective way to measure the Spirit's activity in a meeting (and it seems this is usually by "manifestation"). This seems directly in conflict with Matthew 18:20; God is there in Spirit regardless, so why would a particular object make his presence any "stronger"? When we think about it rationally I think it starts to feel like a New Age/superstitious belief - that somehow "the force" is made stronger by bringing a particular object to a place.
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
This is a bit off topic too (though if I started thread is that allowed??)
One of the problems with focussing on the dramatic in one place is the power that 'specialness' conveys.
I used victory church's facebook page to ask if they have had responses yet or stories that can be publicised from the Pastor's calls for those healed to get it verified.
The reply I got - from joe public not anyone church related - was...
quote:
I'd say go there and find out. I haven't been, but if word of mouth doesn't verify it, perhaps only experiencing it will.
That unthinking conviction comes when you think one place, or one person is especially anointed.
Even when the people concerned are encouraging that testing, followers don't want anything to dampen the story for them.
And soon it applies not just to what is said and done there but any friend of a friend of a friend version of what is said/done there.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I think that some people "catch" the idea that they need to open themselves up far more than they have so far.
Yes - I agree. But I would not 'open myself up' at a Church gathering, especially a Charismatic one any more. I have done so in the past, with seriously deep belief and trust. No more.
There is far too much hypnosis going on imo.
Our Church had a very charismatic visiting preacher on Sunday - droves went up for the altar call. I really like the man, he was a very good friend of ours years ago - but none of his patter washed for me any more. I have become older/wiser/more cynical/less susceptible to the mood in the room.
Whatever - I think the 'move of the crowd' is far more powerful than the 'move of the spirit'.
I believe Gods Spirit acts on our loves and motives - not outward churchy actions.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I have become older/wiser/more cynical/less susceptible to the mood in the room.
So have I. The danger, I suppose, is that one might then miss a "genuine move of God's Spirit" - I hope not though!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
I'm trying to keep up, but the discussion is bogged down with assumptions like 'special anointing' and 'movement of the Spirit'. What makes you think these things weren't invented in the past 100 years or so?
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And no gift is possessed by every Christian.
So praying in tongues (and I do it)
Every time you do it you show the need - how do non-tongues speakers fulfil that need? What do they have instead?
p.s. these attributes are referred to as "gifts" only in 1 Corinthians 14 which refers to the public use, *giving* to the church meeting.
Saying otherwise makes nonsense of it since it also lists faith, wisdom, knowledge, discernment etc, how can you even be a Christian without these attributes?
A Christian has Jesus Christ inside, how can you have Jesus without these attributes?
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And no gift is possessed by every Christian.
So praying in tongues (and I do it)
Every time you do it you show the need - how do non-tongues speakers fulfil that need? What do they have instead?
p.s. these attributes are referred to as "gifts" only in 1 Corinthians 14 which refers to the public use, *giving* to the church meeting.
Saying otherwise makes nonsense of it since it also lists faith, wisdom, knowledge, discernment etc, how can you even be a Christian without these attributes?
A Christian has Jesus Christ inside, how can you have Jesus without these attributes?
What do you think is happening when you speak in tongues?
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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NJA
Shipmate
# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
What do you think is happening when you speak in tongues?
The Holy Spirit is leading me in prayer according to God's perfect will for me.
This ministers his love, joy and peace "that passes understanding" to my soul and I exhibit God's nature.
Colloquially, it tunes me into God, who is a Spirit, the Holy (set apart) Spirit.
Romans 8:26-27, Jude 20-21, Isaiah 28:11-12 (1 Cor. 14:21-22) etc.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Komensky
Shipmate
# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
What do you think is happening when you speak in tongues?
The Holy Spirit is leading me in prayer according to God's perfect will for me.
This ministers his love, joy and peace "that passes understanding" to my soul and I exhibit God's nature.
Colloquially, it tunes me into God, who is a Spirit, the Holy (set apart) Spirit.
Romans 8:26-27, Jude 20-21, Isaiah 28:11-12 (1 Cor. 14:21-22) etc.
So what do you think is the source of those noises you make?
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Laurelin
Shipmate
# 17211
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I don't like the idea very much that we can 'catch' or 'summon' the Holy Spirit. To me it smacks to much like ordering it (him? her?) around. We can ask the Spirit to accompany us (even if I believe it always does), or we can open ourselves up to it.
I agree with the principle of what you're saying, but the Holy Spirit is described in Scripture as a 'He', not an impersonal 'it'. He is the third Person of the Trinity, the Spirit of Jesus here with us on earth. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Every time you do it you show the need - how do non-tongues speakers fulfil that need? What do they have instead?
Good heavens. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) There have been zillions of fine, Spirit-filled Christians in every age who didn't speak in tongues. The gift of tongues is never, EVER, cited in the Epistles as proof of salvation. Ever. Jesus Himself never even mentions tongues. If it's so crucial, don't you think He might have? After all, He demonstrates the power of the Spirit in His ministry.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, boy yes I do. I also believe in His mighty power of regeneration and new life. I also happen to pray in tongues privately. But I regard the view that one MUST speak in tongues as proof of the Spirit's life as unbiblical and dangerous: I've known people whose faith was seriously damaged by such off-kilter teaching.
To return to the topic: I'm a weary pilgrim, weary of the human tendency to seek out special 'impartations' and what-have-yous, especially as the dividends in Western Christianity seem to be so thin. But I keep on believing and praying to know the true, transformative power of the Holy Spirit in the life of the church. And I do believe that places dedicated to the service of God can be hallowed by the prayers of the faithful.
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"I fear that to me Siamese cats belong to the fauna of Mordor." J.R.R. Tolkien
Posts: 545 | From: The Shire | Registered: Jul 2012
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Komensky
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# 8675
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Posted
The Pentecostals have a lot to answer for by inventing the modern version of speaking in tongues.
By the way, it has been argued that Jesus does mention tongues in the sermon on the mount—not the sense of tongues as 'languages' as is generally used in the Epistles and Acts, but rather his warning against 'nonsense talk' with implication of the use of meaningless syllables. We had a thread on this a while ago…
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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chris stiles
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# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And no gift is possessed by every Christian.
So praying in tongues (and I do it)
Every time you do it you show the need - how do non-tongues speakers fulfil that need? What do they have instead?
They have whatever God chooses to give them. Do all speak in tongues? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all interpret?
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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NJA
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# 13022
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
So what do you think is the source of those noises you make?
My larynx.
Posts: 1283 | From: near London | Registered: Sep 2007
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Komensky
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# 8675
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Komensky:
So what do you think is the source of those noises you make?
My larynx.
Whew! For a moment I thought you might be one of those nutters who things they are praying in a language of angels.
K.
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"The English are not very spiritual people, so they invented cricket to give them some idea of eternity." - George Bernard Shaw
Posts: 1784 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2004
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
Measurably.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Avila
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# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Laurelin:
To return to the topic: I'm a weary pilgrim, weary of the human tendency to seek out special 'impartations' and what-have-yous, especially as the dividends in Western Christianity seem to be so thin. But I keep on believing and praying to know the true, transformative power of the Holy Spirit in the life of the church. And I do believe that places dedicated to the service of God can be hallowed by the prayers of the faithful.
So to get to the topic again (which is not the validity of tongues - get your own thread [stroppy opener not host!!] )
In what ways other than the charismatic outpouring stuff do people try to catch something special of God - as mentioned above, there are the places that have been sites of prayer for hundreds, thousands? of years. Are these so called 'thin places' where you can catch the spirit in a different way?
What is the theology of it whatever end of the style and tradition spectrum we are on?
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
Theology? Thaumaturgy.
My previous comment was in response to the opening post: 'Can you catch the Spirit?'.
Measurably. That means economically. In charity. In generosity. In time given in wise counsel about money, mind and relationships. In charity. In kindness. In patience. All of these things can be quantified.
All of this means 'turning to Christ'.
Delusion doesn't. Quite the opposite.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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