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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Deleted Hell thread.
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
So Marvin – at your suggestion.
Back around October 2012 there was a thread calling Evensong to Hell. It trundled on for a number of pages in the traditional manner quite happily, with the dysfunctional one being shredded by her betters and reinforcing their views of her.
Running at the same time was a thread about Jimmy Savile. There was some discussion in the wings about the advisability of discussing such things on a discussion board.
At the time these threads were extant, there were changes to the hosting team on the Hell board. Some changes to the Admin team also occurred.
Following some particularly choice example of her disingenuity, I posted in her thread to ask Evensong directly whether she suffered from Asperger’s Syndrome. As she is antipodean, I assume she was offline when I posted. However, before she had the opportunity to respond, or possibly even to see the post, Sioni Sais posted an angry remonstration, in a personal non-formal capacity, criticising my enquiry.
Shortly afterwards, the thread was deleted, possibly contemporaneously with the deletion of the Savile thread. By deleted, I mean deleted, with my posts therefrom dissappearing without trace from my posts history.
Somewhat taken aback by this apparently arbitrary action, I sent a PM to Sioni Sais explaining that my question had been sincere, and born of genuine perplexity at Evensong’s apparent disconnectedness on the thread, and expressing my disappointment that she hadn’t been given the opportunity to respond. Sioni Sais read the PM but elected not to respond.
I discussed this with someone in the café, and was advised that mention of Asperger’s is a very touchy subject on the boards, following an issue with another shipmate a couple of years ago (which I do recall). However, I was unaware that the subject was proscribed.
It was also posited that Evensong enjoys more leeway than others at times, possibly due to her ability to stir up a hornets’ nest at the drop of a hat, thus encouraging lively debate, or possibly for some other reason. I should emphasise that I don’t have any particularly negative feelings towards her. We’ve rarely (if ever) engaged and she certainly livens things up wherever she chooses to interject. Her contributions to the welcome thread are also commendable and, I’m sure, appreciated.
Whilst forlornly waiting for a response from Sioni Sais, I was engaged in a PM chat with one of the Admins, during which I mentioned my dismay at the way the new Hell hosts were blundering about like heffalumps, and expressing my irritation at the discourtesy displayed by Sioni Sais in not responding to me, and in not elaborating on the reason for deleting the Hell call thread. The Admin’s response was to say that the new Hell hosts were good people who would settle down in time, but the subject of the thread deletion was ignored.
Meanwhile, the read-by-recipient but unanswered PM I sent to Sioni Sais has mysteriously dissappeared from my outbox. This is presumably due to some completely unrelated and highly selective glitch in the forum software.
From Marvin’s comment yesterday it would seem that there is some wider awareness of my enquiries. I had tried to engage with H&A discreetly to obtain answers to my questions, but was rebuffed, so was reduced to sniping from the gallery.
So, are you able to clarify:
1. Why was the Evensong call to Hell thread deleted without comment or explanation, rather than closed or sent to Oblivion?
2. Is it customary to delete, as opposed to archive, personal Hell-call threads without explanation? Is this a common benefit or does Evensong enjoy some sort of privilege not afforded to other shipmates?
3. Is the term “Asperger’s Syndrome” proscribed on this forum? I notice no such squeamishness in the discussion or mention of blindness, deafness, depression, and other conditions and afflictions.
4. Is it customary for Hosts to ignore PMs from shipmates which ask for information in the hope that they’ll just go away?
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Other Hosts or Admins may recall the details more precisely than me, but as far as I can recall the thread was not deleted because of anything to do with a reference to Asperger's.
My recollection is that more than one thread was deleted in relation to the issue of Jimmy Saville and pedophilia in general. And I very strongly suspect that the Hellcall of Evensong had some relationship to the pedophilia topic (it was not the first time that Evensong found herself in strong disagreement with some other Shipmates in relation to aspects of that topic). And frankly discussion of pedophilia was raging vociferously. It certainly wasn't confined to a single Hell thread.
I was a brand new Hellhost. I think this was literally in the first week. It wasn't exactly fun spending all my Ship time reading about pedophilia, so it left a fairly strong impression about what was going on.
So frankly, while I can understand you might have reached a cause-and-effect conclusion about the deletion of the thread having something to do with your Asperger's remark, I'm pretty sure you conclusion is wrong.
And Sioni can speak for himself, but I also strongly suspect the reason you didn't get a reply to your PM is because the Admin/Hosts announcements about the deletion of material to do with pedophilia had already been made.
[ 07. February 2013, 12:36: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I think the thread you are refering to is this one. Which, as you can see was not deleted, merely moved to Oblivion at some tidy-up point along with other threads. The reasons for the thread being closed are clearly stated in the last post.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Sigh. See, that just proves I can work with incorrect facts just as well as anyone else.
Although I was at least right about the reason that Evensong got called to Hell in the first place.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Thank you Alan - good to see it has come back. Perhaps the posts will suddenly reappear in my post history at some point too!
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Given that the thread is in Oblivion, and your recent posts history happily shows other posts that are in Oblivion, I personally haven't got a damn clue why that post of yours isn't showing up as a post in Oblivion right this very second.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
passer, you seem to be assuming that everything that happens with respect to data on The Ship is fully intentional (by a vague someone); this is probably wrong. To weave it as part of a conspiracy theory certainly is wrong.
It should be noted that Evensong does suffer special status, but it's not what you think. She has been readmitted after a banning, and bears a shorter leash than others because of it.
Do you have any other excuses as to why you've been so busy lately contributing to your own C-1 dossier? Or are we done with this petty, paranoid shit?
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
If that thread was shifted to a location not visible to the "public" who aren't hosts or admins, I can see why that would affect the recent posts function.
Part of the problem here is that the recent posts function is a database thing, while other forum setups like phpBB 3 generate it on the fly using something more like a search routine which easily accounts for posts which are hidden and then returned to view.
(cross post - basically I fully agree with Rook's first paragraph)
[ 07. February 2013, 13:58: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
Others have already answered this [including crossposts!], but for clarity:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
1. Why was the Evensong call to Hell thread deleted without comment or explanation, rather than closed or sent to Oblivion?
The thread is in Oblivion.
quote:
2. Is it customary to delete, as opposed to archive, personal Hell-call threads without explanation? Is this a common benefit or does Evensong enjoy some sort of privilege not afforded to other shipmates?
No, though some threads get moved to Archive X if they've been closed for legal reasons or are otherwise too "hot" to keep on the publicly-accessible boards. The Savile thread is the most recent example of a thread being moved to this archive.
Evensong enjoys no more privilege than everyone else.
quote:
3. Is the term “Asperger’s Syndrome” proscribed on this forum? I notice no such squeamishness in the discussion or mention of blindness, deafness, depression, and other conditions and afflictions.
The term is not proscribed. It's not why the thread was closed, as Sioni's post - which gives four closure reasons, none of which are use of that term - makes perfectly clear.
quote:
4. Is it customary for Hosts to ignore PMs from shipmates which ask for information in the hope that they’ll just go away?
Depends on the Host, depends on the Shipmate. There's no rule that says a Host has to answer such a PM.
[ 07. February 2013, 14:10: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Given that the thread is in Oblivion, and your recent posts history happily shows other posts that are in Oblivion, I personally haven't got a damn clue why that post of yours isn't showing up as a post in Oblivion right this very second.
One of us probably needs to rebuild the stat files and search index again. Trouble is, doing so takes the whole site down for a while, and it's often hard to find a sufficiently quiet time in which to do it.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
You could just wait for Kelly to close it accidentally again ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Seriously - host and admin team, you do a fantastic job. I might not agree with every decision made by every host (I'd still like to be able to write r@nga) but I can't deny that 99% of the time you get it right, and that this is by far the most evenly and consistently run forum I've ever come across.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I'll try and keep this short as I don't want it to look too much like an Adminly dogpile!
As Marvin has already pointed out, Sioni Sais explained why the thread was closed. That was on 8th November.
That thread (along with a group of others) was sent to Oblivion on 21st November. I know because I did it myself and still have a record of it, so it was nearly two weeks between closure and removal from the Hell board.
[ 07. February 2013, 16:03: Message edited by: Spike ]
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
It may all be simpler than anyone thinks.
At any time, either on the board or in the PM, did Passer use the word, "overly?"
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Thank you RooK, for your informed and measured response.
Thank you Marvin, for your detailed response.
Thank you Spike, for checking your activity log.
I’m not overly inclined to add to my previously stated views on the forum software.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
You could just wait for Kelly to close it accidentally again
Hey, pick a date and I'll happily do it on purpose!
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Joan Rasch
Shipmate
# 49
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
You could just wait for Kelly to close it accidentally again
Hey, pick a date and I'll happily do it on purpose!
Well, since Ash Wednesday is on many Kalendars as a day of fasting, maybe that would be a good one. If the techie types need some prep time, we could go with Eastern timetable...
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* A cyclist on the information bikepath
Posts: 509 | From: Boston, MA USA | Registered: May 2001
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
I remember that one. I reacted quite strongly to passer's question for two reasons. First, I was hoping that the thread would quietly disappear to the second page, and then to oblivion, and the question came after several days of inactivity. Second, and from memory Sioni shared this sentiment, it's none of passer's (or anyobe's) business if Evensong or anyone else identifies as Aspergian.
And while I make no secret of the fact that I am Evensong's friend IRL (which is why I was hoping that thread would just slip quietly into oblivion), my opinion has no bearing on what happened re the thread.
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Yes, it was interesting to see how offended and defensive you became on behalf of the subject of a deserved Hell call, as did a Host. The thread was closed three hours after my post, precluding a response. You wore your hearts on your sleeve that day.
However, that was in another country, and besides, the thread is dead.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I’m not overly inclined to add to my previously stated views on the forum software.
To be honest, it would be far more useful if the people who dislike our current software could offer their money rather than their opinions...
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I’m not overly inclined to add to my previously stated views on the forum software.
To be honest, it would be far more useful if the people who dislike our current software could offer their money rather than their opinions...
Indeed, and that subject has been discussed in the not too distant past if I recall. However, in order to fund a project, there has to be a project, and there is no indication that such a beast exists. You can't really expect people to just pledge money to vapourware.
If there really are plans to upgrade the software and/or the platform, I'm unaware of them. Someone has to kick the process off. There is a limited number of people who have access to the infrastructure and the logistical data who are able to draw up a plan. Members of the forum are not within that group. There have been offers to aid in a migration (Amorya? springs to mind), and whenever the platform crashes people like Alex spring willingly into action. Pease still exists, and Alan too.
I guess the drive has to come from the owner though, and there doesn't seem to be any sign (at least to we members of the great unwashed) that Simon has either time or enthusiasm to upgrade his site. Shipmate moron did seem to attempt to open an inquisitive crack in the door a few days ago, but the thread was hijacked within seconds, and remains unanswered.
Anyway, my views were already known, and I only included that observation above to amuse Twilight.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Yes, it was interesting to see how offended and defensive you became on behalf of the subject of a deserved Hell call, as did a Host.
As another Host who has now been able to refresh his memory by reading the thread in question, let me put this to you: the primary reason for locking the thread had precious little to do with the content of your post, and far, far more to do with the timing. Sioni might have got there first, but my own reaction was a roll of the eyes and "why has THIS become active again" before I'd even read the content.
Hellhost dislike of 'thread necromancy' is a long-standing practice. As long as I've been on the Ship. That's precisely why it has its own name. It has been a regular feature of Hellhosting to take a dim view of people reviving threads that were quietly dropping down the list.
If they're dropping, we don't bother locking them. We only lock them when people kick the dead threads into life and we don't think there's actually any real life in them.
And in this particular case, it wasn't simply the lag in time between the previous post and yours. Look at the content of the thread itself. There are several remarks by Hosts and Admins to the effect that the thread has run its course and has completely veered off into topics better pursued in Styx or Purgatory. We were also aware of the fact that Evensong herself had showed every sign of abandoning the thread. And frankly, when the subject of a Hellcall has been and gone, after a couple of days the Hellcall thread ceases to have much purpose and interest.
Essentially what I am saying to you is that a conclusion that the content of your post is a major factor here is misplaced. It would have been very hard for anyone to manufacture a post on the thread at that moment at time that didn't get a grumpy Host turning up and saying "what the fuck did you post here for" and locking the thread.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hellhost dislike of 'thread necromancy' is a long-standing practice. As long as I've been on the Ship.
\
I don't think any of the other Hosts particularly like it, either, you guys just get to snarl about it.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hellhost dislike of 'thread necromancy' is a long-standing practice. As long as I've been on the Ship.
\
I don't think any of the other Hosts particularly like it, either, you guys just get to snarl about it.
Let those that have ears to hear listen to what the angel says to the Shipmates.
[There you are Kelly, you are an angel!]
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Hellhost dislike of 'thread necromancy' is a long-standing practice. As long as I've been on the Ship.
\
I don't think any of the other Hosts particularly like it, either, you guys just get to snarl about it.
True. Okay, Hellhost vocal dislike of 'thread necromancy' is a long-standing practice!
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
Yes, it was interesting to see how offended and defensive you became on behalf of the subject of a deserved Hell call, as did a Host.
As another Host who has now been able to refresh his memory by reading the thread in question..... <snip>
[Sigh.
I actually wrote this response yesterday, but the platform maintenance slot prevented me from posting it, so you'll have to reconstruct the continuity.]
I would point out that I've actually been a member for the same length of time as you, and am as familiar with local custom and practice as your good self, and that you'd been a Host for about ten minutes at the time.
That said, your support for your silent colleague is commendable. He didn't allow Evensong the opportunity to respond - he closed the thread whilst she was almost certainly offline, thus taking responsibility for terminating that conversation before it commenced. You can't say that the thread was moribund without giving her the opportunity to ignore my question. His refusal to engage about that at the time was the cause of my irritation, which led eventually to this thread. His persistence in declining to engage, possibly under advice, does nothing to ameliorate the situation from my perspective. That situation is not recoverable - he screwed up on that, but I doubt it's causing him any sleepless nights.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I’m not overly inclined to add to my previously stated views on the forum software.
To be honest, it would be far more useful if the people who dislike our current software could offer their money rather than their opinions...
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Very good. Keep diverting!
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
You can't say that the thread was moribund without giving her the opportunity to ignore my question.
She was already ignoring everyone's posts. That's the point. It's not moribund because she didn't respond to YOU. It's moribund because she's not responding to anyone.
And again, to talk about 'that conversation before it commenced' is to look at it from a perspective that is uniquely yours. From a Host perspective, "that conversation" had been going on for weeks and many pages. I can well understand why YOU might think you're starting a brand new conversation, but when you post in a thread like that you're not.
If you genuinely wanted a new conversation, then Sioni's suggestion of a PM to Evensong would have been the way to go.
[ 09. February 2013, 11:42: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
I’m not overly inclined to add to my previously stated views on the forum software.
To be honest, it would be far more useful if the people who dislike our current software could offer their money rather than their opinions...
I think this conveys a basic misunderstanding of how donation psychology works. Just giving money to continue 'operations as usual' is not very attractive and doesn't trigger the psychology involved when people are asked to fund a special project. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. It is much more attractive to fund toward a special project with a goal that can be seen to be achieved.
Of the top of my head, if the ship was serious at all about having a project to update the forum to modern software, those in charge need to (1) say this is something they want to do and why, (2) provide info about the benefits of doing so, (3) provide info about the decisions between the alternatives, (4) put forward the plan and funding goal for the project, (5) raise the funds within a special fund, with proper information as to how it is going, (6) figure out how to make the donation attractive in a substantive way - what reward for what amount (tax donation receipt, ship swag etc). If the amount to be raised is substantial, e.g., if the decision was to raise for new server hardware and software package, there would probably have to be pretty good disclosure.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
I agree, no prophet, as I indicated above. Should this matter ever become other than aspirational, it probably merits its own thread. Again.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
Anyway, back to the OP.
So basically, - Sioni decided unilaterally that Evensong had abandoned her participation in the thread, and acted accordingly.
- My opinion may have differed, but was of secondary relevance to his as I'm just a pleb.
- My attempt to ignite (or reignite depending on your perspective) a dialogue was deemed impermissible by Sioni so he closed the thread before the opportunity could be taken or ignored.
- I should have taken up his suggestion to communicate with her by PM, because one can ignore a PM and keep stuff off the main board, something he obviously understands and embraces.
- The complete dissappearance of the thread, including from Oblivion, and accompanied by the dissappearance of the posts from my history (both confirmed at the time, incidentally, by another shipmate who checked for me lest I couldn't see the wood for the trees) was an act of Software, as was the miraculous partial reappearance when I pointed it out on the board, as opposed to in PMs. Obviously at no time during that intervening period was the thread elsewhere.
- The dissappearance of the PM from my outbox was also an act of Software which merits no comment.
- The refusal to respond to a request for explanation of moderator activity is entirely up to the Host concerned and is an independent action. No skirts are being hidden behind. No sir, none at all.
It's clear from all of this that I am a paranoid weirdo - probably borderline something-or-other, as hinted at above - and that any suspicions or doubts I might have about the actions or motives of any individuals are completely imaginary and unfounded, and based on coincidence at best, or my personal delusions at worst.
orfeo - your preparedness to engage does you credit. I'm not convinced you have all the facts, but that's not your fault. For what it's worth, you have risen in my estimation - thanks for trying.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
No skirts are being hidden behind. No sir, none at all.
THIS is a violation of Commandment 6. I pick out that part particularly because of its obviousness, but really your whole post was questionable. I suggest you change your tone if you want to be able to continue having this - or any - conversation here.
-RooK
Styx Host
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
You know, RooK, I don't often post on these sorts of Styx threads. I figure I can't possibly know the whole backstory, so any comment I make is likely to be uninformed and unhelpful, and it's best for everyone if bystanders just stay the heck out of the way.
But your warning to passer seems like a serious over-reaction, far more over-the-top than passer's post. I have seen real C6 challenges in Styx that were tolerated, apparently on the theory that if you've got a beef with hosts and admins, this is the place to make your case, and people who are upset aren't always diplomatic. To me, passer's post seems to be entirely within the limits of what has always been accepted in these kinds of discussions in Styx.
I do think that passer is seeing something that isn't there. But your warning would not seem to be good way to settle things down.
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
6. Respect the Ship's crew
If you disagree with a member of the Ship's crew (in their official capacity), raise the issue in the Styx, our board for in-house stuff. Personal attacks on hosts, admins and editors for their official actions will be treated as an attempt to disrupt the Ship itself.
Thank you for confirming what I have emboldened.
So the Styx provides somewhere for members to query official actions, but imposes no requirement on the perpetrator of those actions to respond. That's an interesting model. Providing somewhere to air an issue with no expectation of anything further from the participants. Rather reminiscent of British TV's Jim Hacker setting up an Inquiry.
A simple "Fuck off and suck it up" last November would have dealt with my PM query. Evasiveness will always encourage suspicion, whereas candour leads to closure. I guess I shall just have to remain bemused by his personal decision not to engage in this discussion. I expect I'll live.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
quote:
6. Respect the Ship's crew
If you disagree with a member of the Ship's crew (in their official capacity), raise the issue in the Styx, our board for in-house stuff. Personal attacks on hosts, admins and editors for their official actions will be treated as an attempt to disrupt the Ship itself.
Thank you for confirming what I have emboldened.
So the Styx provides somewhere for members to query official actions, but imposes no requirement on the perpetrator of those actions to respond.
...
A simple "Fuck off and suck it up" last November would have dealt with my PM query.
So if the Styx is the place to respectfully query hosting decision, why did you send a PM instead? Did you actually want an answer or just an excuse to get angry?
quote:
That's an interesting model.
Yes. It's called a dictatorship, and thankfully in the context of the internet if you don't like it you are allowed to fuck off and get your own blog where you make the rules. Just about everybody on here understands that absolute freedom of speech doesn't apply here.
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If I give a homeopathy advocate a really huge punch in the face, can the injury be cured by giving them another really small punch in the face?
Posts: 4834 | From: Adelaide, South Australia. | Registered: Jan 2006
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
The refusal to respond to a request for explanation of moderator activity is entirely up to the Host concerned and is an independent action.
Only two official actions happened in connection to your complaint - the thread's closure and its transfer to Oblivion two weeks later. Both have been explained.
The thread was not deleted. It was not moved to Archive X at any point. Oblivion is a massive board that has many well-known and well-documented problems. None of us even has the ability to delete PMs from your profile, much less the inclination. There is no cover up or conspiracy, and there never was.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
So if the Styx is the place to respectfully query hosting decision, why did you send a PM instead?
Because he was new to the role, and wishing him no ill, I saw no reason to expose him to a formal Styx call. Like this trainwreck here!
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
The refusal to respond to a request for explanation of moderator activity is entirely up to the Host concerned and is an independent action.
Only two official actions happened in connection to your complaint - the thread's closure and its transfer to Oblivion two weeks later. Both have been explained.
The thread was not deleted. It was not moved to Archive X at any point. Oblivion is a massive board that has many well-known and well-documented problems. None of us even has the ability to delete PMs from your profile, much less the inclination. There is no cover up or conspiracy, and there never was.
Cool. Guess that's a wrap then.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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RooK
1 of 6
# 1852
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
your warning to passer seems like a serious over-reaction
This was the nice version; you should have seen the version I deleted.
There is no back story. His questions have already been answered. Repeatedly. Subsequent sniping and insinuations (not aimed at me) are not something I'm going to ever be much tolerant of.
Posts: 15274 | From: Portland, Oregon, USA, Earth | Registered: Nov 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
passer is confused by:
...complete dissappearance [sic] of the thread, including from Oblivion, and accompanied by the dissappearance [sic] of the posts from my history...[were acts] of Software...the miraculous partial reappearance...The dissappearance [sic] of the PM ... was also an act of Software which merits no comment
passer, on various pages of the Ship you will find this label: quote:
UBB.classic™ 6.5.0
A little googling around tells that UBB.classic™ 6.5.0 seems to be ten years old this month.
In technical jargon this means that the software that supports this turbulent little bulletin board community is an Old PoS (think urbandictionary, not wikipedia). An Old PoS with a Horrible Hack for a data store—let's not say database, that would unreasonably stretch that word's meaning.
I claim no special knowledge of UBB in any flavor (thank God), but I've worked with enough old PoSs with Horrible Hacks at the back end, to know that disappearing and reappearing objects (such as your threads and private messages) are common enough to be thankfully received as Benign Bugs.
You should be thanking the Providential Powers of the Computing Cosmos that this bulletin board community functions, at all, instead of posting insinuating snarkery such as this: quote:
It's clear from all of this that I am a paranoid weirdo - probably borderline something-or-other, as hinted at above - and that any suspicions or doubts I might have about the actions or motives of any individuals are completely imaginary and unfounded, and based on coincidence at best, or my personal delusions at worst.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
orfeo - your preparedness to engage does you credit. I'm not convinced you have all the facts, but that's not your fault. For what it's worth, you have risen in my estimation - thanks for trying.
Thanks.
However you continue to present a picture of how Hosts work that I don't recognise.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
I think this conveys a basic misunderstanding of how donation psychology works. Just giving money to continue 'operations as usual' is not very attractive and doesn't trigger the psychology involved when people are asked to fund a special project.
Which is a fairly messed up thing, yeah?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
You should be thanking the Providential Powers of the Computing Cosmos that this bulletin board community functions, at all, ...
Personally I do. The board was down for a few hours yesterday and I suffered cold turkey!
What are the plans for the future when the old software truly doesn't function any more?
[ 10. February 2013, 07:44: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
- The complete dissappearance of the thread, including from Oblivion, and accompanied by the dissappearance of the posts from my history (both confirmed at the time, incidentally, by another shipmate who checked for me lest I couldn't see the wood for the trees) was an act of Software, as was the miraculous partial reappearance when I pointed it out on the board, as opposed to in PMs. Obviously at no time during that intervening period was the thread elsewhere.
- The dissappearance of the PM from my outbox was also an act of Software which merits no comment.
As a point of clarification.
There's no evidence that the thread disappeared. The thread didn't appear in the Ship search functions (including recent posts lists), but that is far from unusual for Oblivion. It is usually easy to find a thread in Oblivion given an approximate idea of title/OPer and the last post. Given your information in the OP I found it within a couple of minutes. The evidence suggests a lack of ability at finding the thread, rather than the lack of the thread.
As for PMs, that could have disappeared from your sent messages list because you deleted it. Or, because you never sent it in the first place (that happened to me on Friday when I typed a PM and hit send only to have the board be down by that stage) - which would also explain the lack of response. I've not seen any "missing PM" threads in the Styx that haven't been explained as being confusion between PMs and emails through the board software - ie: no one else has complained that they've sent PMs that then mysteriously disappear from existence. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that no one else has said it's happened.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
The real problem with this thread isthat it is - literally - impossible to prove a negative; whether that is the absence of malice, the absence of a conspiracy, or the absence of an invisible goblin living on my right shoulder.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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AberVicar
Mornington Star
# 16451
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Posted
The goblin isn't invisible! I can see it! Even from here!
<interesting incense at Mass this morning...>
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Before you diagnose yourself with depression or low self-esteem, make sure you are not, in fact, just surrounded by assholes.
Posts: 742 | From: Abertillery | Registered: May 2011
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
The real problem with this thread isthat it is - literally - impossible to prove a negative; whether that is the absence of malice, the absence of a conspiracy, or the absence of an invisible goblin living on my right shoulder.
Indeed.
The positives that *are* provable are the posts on the thread in question. All of which point, in my view, to the Hosts and even Admins having viewed the thread as running out of steam long before passer's particular post.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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passer
Indigo
# 13329
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
The real problem with this thread isthat it is - literally - impossible to prove a negative; whether that is the absence of malice, the absence of a conspiracy, or the absence of an invisible goblin living on my right shoulder.
Indeed.
The positives that *are* provable are the posts on the thread in question. All of which point, in my view, to the Hosts and even Admins having viewed the thread as running out of steam long before passer's particular post.
Except, of course, that your view was a mistaken one, because if that were the case it would have sunk, wouldn't it? And it was only 42 hours since the previous post. And if "the Hosts and even Admins" (nice piece of conflation there, btw) had felt that strongly about it, they had the option to just close it.
The underlying issue is not what I posted, but how Sioni Sais dealt with what I posted. Which was to wave his brand new wand, complete with L-Plates, and then run away and hide when I asked for some clarification. Are you unable to acknowledge that, or are you just determined to have the last word?
Oh - and happy word-filter day.
Posts: 1289 | From: Sheffield | Registered: Jan 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by passer:
(nice piece of conflation there, btw)
Read the thread. You will find posts from both. No conflation necessary.
As for the underlying issue, you seem to be changing it. Sioni closed the thread. Sioni explained the reason FOR closing the thread, which was not to do with the content of your post relating to Asperger's. Are you now accepting that he didn't close the thread because of the content of your post?
If so, all I have to say is that I entirely agree with Sioni's reasons for closing the thread, and if he hadn't done it, I may well have done.
[ 11. February 2013, 09:53: Message buggered about with by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
I have not been officially diagnosed with Aspergers passer.
But I have not officially been diagnosed with lots of things.
I try avoid diagnosis as much as possible.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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