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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Vicious
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
This is a new ITV "sitcom", that manages to be the most appalling thing I have seen for a long time.
As a couple of simple examples from the first ten minutes, which is all I could stand, Ian McKellen and Derek Jacobi, the two stars, were presented as predatory gays, both salivating at the prospects of fresh young blood, in the form of Ash who knocks at the door. Tawdry.
Followed, soon enough by McKellen saying to Francis de la Tour "Who would want to rape you?". I was shocked, which, I have to say, takes some doing.
And i just had to ask why? What is the point of this pathetic series? It isn't even funny, it is just bad, abusive, stereotyping and cheap.
It has managed to raise "The Wright Way" to being only the second worse sitcom on the TV at the moment, which is an achievement.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
All of these things have already become pretty much standard on Dutch television.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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loggats
Shipmate
# 17643
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Posted
I've seen the previews and agree that it's queer stereotyping at its very tackiest. It's not even exploiting audience expectations about "stately homos of England" stereotypes for ironic effect (which is what made Crisp so funny) - they're just there, vituperating and foul. The show doesn't even work as Camp because it's so unbearably self-conscious.
Two thumbs way down (no double entendre & apologies to Ebert, RIP)
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"He brought me into the banqueting house, and his banner over me was love."
Posts: 245 | Registered: Apr 2013
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Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811
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Posted
Am surprised at McKellen, he's usually in better stuff than that. Sounds hideous.
Posts: 2614 | From: Midlands | Registered: Jul 2005
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Catrine:
Am surprised at McKellen, he's usually in better stuff than that.
So is Jacobi.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
There you are, we laughed like drains at it. Over-acting, lots of tastelessness, what's not to like? Great to see Francis de la Tour again, looking very sprightly. 'Milky cataracts' - nice one. Also, 'I killed a prostitute in Coronation St once'. Not bad.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Catrine:
Am surprised at McKellen, he's usually in better stuff than that.
So is Jacobi.
Oh well, at least they will be getting a laugh out of this. All the way to the bank.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
Why can't we have members of minority groups in TV shows for reasons other than *being members of minority groups*? Why can't we have a police procedural, or legal thriller, or medical drama, or whatever, in which the main character happens to be gay? Not as a plot feature, but just because their partner happens to be the same sex?
And there's still some way to go with ethnicity too. I mean, you get an asian doctor on casualty every now and then, and Art Malik and Idris Elba. But nothing else to really match the Adrian Lester role in Hustle yet.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Why can't we have members of minority groups in TV shows for reasons other than *being members of minority groups*?
Maybe when we get writers who write without keeping one eye on a BAFTA or some other dreadful luvvie-fest award.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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The Midge
Shipmate
# 2398
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Two-Owls:
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Why can't we have members of minority groups in TV shows for reasons other than *being members of minority groups*?
Maybe when we get writers who write without keeping one eye on a BAFTA or some other dreadful luvvie-fest award.
Not for Vicious. It probably sets McKellens works for Stonewall back by years. I ast through it to get to "The Job Lot"
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Catrine:
Am surprised at McKellen, he's usually in better stuff than that.
So is Jacobi.
In the Night Garden?
I rest my case.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Not seen it myself but a couple of nights ago I was talking to some friends who thought it was the best thing that had been on TV for ages. One of them reckoned it was worthy of Alan Bennett. A big difference of opinion here!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
A Marmite show, then?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
There you are, we laughed like drains at it. Over-acting, lots of tastelessness, what's not to like? Great to see Francis de la Tour again, looking very sprightly. 'Milky cataracts' - nice one. Also, 'I killed a prostitute in Coronation St once'. Not bad.
So you think "Who would want to rape you?" is funny?
Yes, there were some good lines, some good acting. There is in pretty much everything, even The Wright Way. That does not excuse the rest of it.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I thought you said you only watched 10 minutes of it?
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Catrine:
Am surprised at McKellen, he's usually in better stuff than that. Sounds hideous.
Aaah the lure of lucre!
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
Clearly need to see this. I haven't.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I thought you said you only watched 10 minutes of it?
Something like that. This came in the portion I watched.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
A Marmite show, then?
Fit only for the mad, the masochistic and the bereft of taste?
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
A Marmite show, then?
Fit only for the mad, the masochistic and the bereft of taste?
Hey, I just had a Marmite crumpet for lunch! Not seen Vicious yet.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Followed, soon enough by McKellen saying to Francis de la Tour "Who would want to rape you?".
Bit of a misquote here, I think (having just watched it on the digibox) and taken out of context. de laTour's character - with a touch of self-conscious melodrama - insists that the young man could be dangerous and might rape her and her elderly gay friend says, impatiently, "Nobody here wants to rape you." There was an ambivalence there - and perhaps it wasn't the finest moment in the first half, but I thought the whole thing was jolly good and funny enough, allowing for the fact that first episodes of sitcoms have a lot to do. Well, I like marmite, obviously.
I know what ken's mates mean about Alan Bennett - though don't quite agree. And I don't think it has set Stonewall (etc) back 10 years - I think it's the sign of the growing confidence of the movement that gay men can be shown behaving in that way. And it's not just about being gay, perhaps it's not even primarily about being gay - it's about getting old.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
Predictable dialogue, woooden acting and bilge. It will run and run like a bad curry the day after.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Is rape off limits to the humorist or comedian ?
Didn't think anything was , not even paedophilia .
We all know where the 'off' button or door is.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Is rape off limits to the humorist or comedian ?
Didn't think anything was , not even paedophilia .
They should be.
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
We all know where the 'off' button or door is.
Fuck the door or the off button.
<insert Godwin's law and evil committed when good people do nothing here>
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Is rape off limits to the humorist or comedian ?
Didn't think anything was , not even paedophilia .
We all know where the 'off' button or door is.
We do, however, HAVE to pay a licence fee. Now if it were truly pay per view (which is entirely possible), then I'd agree with your statement about off or door. As it isn't I'm paying for rubbish of the lets-flail-our arms-shout-loudly-look-meaningfully-at-others-with-jokes-so-old-they-can-be-carbon-dated dialogue, that I don't watch and don't want to watch.
Rubbish is rubbish however you dress it up and whoever takes part in it. Quite apart from the subject matter - which actually makes it worse - who wants to be "entertained" in the examination of the everyday lives of two elderly gay men? A fairly low minority interest I'd say.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
The Radio Times gave it an ecstatic write up, and it had a brilliant cast, so I watched it with eager anticipation. By the end I felt soiled - it was like being back in the 70s and watching the crude stereotypes of Love Thy Neighbour.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Is rape off limits to the humorist or comedian ?
Didn't think anything was , not even paedophilia .
We all know where the 'off' button or door is.
Misrepresenting it is. Or presenting it as a minor issue. Its just bad.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Is rape off limits to the humorist or comedian ?
Didn't think anything was , not even paedophilia .
We all know where the 'off' button or door is.
We do, however, HAVE to pay a licence fee.
Only if you HAVE to have a television.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
Gosh, rape is SO funny!
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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QLib
Bad Example
# 43
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Posted
Of course actual rape is not funny. However, some people have rape fantasies (that does not, of course, mean that they actually want to be raped); and such fantasies are IMHO a potentially legitimate subject for humour. The most disappointing thing about that little bit of banter is that it was rather based on a stereotype of a woman of a certain age. If this programme lives up to its promise, its going to have some fun with stereotypes.
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Tradition is the handing down of the flame, not the worship of the ashes Gustav Mahler.
Posts: 8913 | From: Page 28 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by QLib:
Of course actual rape is not funny. However, some people have rape fantasies (that does not, of course, mean that they actually want to be raped); and such fantasies are IMHO a potentially legitimate subject for humour. The most disappointing thing about that little bit of banter is that it was rather based on a stereotype of a woman of a certain age. If this programme lives up to its promise, its going to have some fun with stereotypes.
This programme is having trouble living down to its promises.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Is rape off limits to the humorist or comedian ?
Didn't think anything was , not even paedophilia .
We all know where the 'off' button or door is.
We do, however, HAVE to pay a licence fee.
Only if you HAVE to have a television.
It's like politics, really. Once you engage with the system, you're restricted to the choices offered to you BY the system.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
... Why can't we have a police procedural ... in which the main character happens to be gay? ...
One of the main characters in Between the Lines (early 1990s BBC police drama) was a lesbian. Will that do?
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The Radio Times gave it an ecstatic write up, and it had a brilliant cast, so I watched it with eager anticipation. By the end I felt soiled - it was like being back in the 70s and watching the crude stereotypes of Love Thy Neighbour.
The bigger the write up, the poorer the quality IME. Good stuff doesn't need a write up - its quality spreads by word of mouth.
The Radio Times has a vested interest anyway - which it should declare.
It just isn't funny. Worse than that - it's demeaning to those involved and to those invited to watch it.
[ 06. May 2013, 07:28: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
[QUOTE] Only if you HAVE to have a television.
(Screams) But I have to conform ....
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family, but I also get to feel superior to all of you.
Win-win.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family
Explain again how this is a win?
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Fuck the door or the off button.
<insert Godwin's law and evil committed when good people do nothing here>
Britain used to have a lady called mary whitehouse who was voracious in trying to clean up crudity and violence on TV . She became a figure of fun, and was ridiculed for being an advocate of censorship .
Not always that easy to know who serves the good or who serves the bad.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarkycow:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family
Explain again how this is a win?
Good point. To clarify- i like my children. And I life far, far away from my siblings.
If they were close I'd probably have a TV on 24-7.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
I've just caught it online. What do the cast think they're doing? Making some ironic stab at stereotyping? Surely not, everyone's known since Alf Garnet that in sitcom, this too easily backfires. Just having a bit of fun? Light relief from 'serious' roles? It doesn't look much fun to me. I don't understand.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
One exchange did make me laugh, it went something like:
You can't unsay that! I don't think I can ever get over it.
I'm sorry.
(melts) Oh, that's alright.
Been there so many times! So why was the rest such crap?
[ 06. May 2013, 09:46: Message edited by: argona ]
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family, but I also get to feel superior to all of you.
Win-win.
Superior? In recent years American serial television is a golden artform, sucking all the best writers away from film as Hollywood comforts itself with endless reruns of whatever worked last time. Tonight I saw an ad for Fast and Furious 6.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family, but I also get to feel superior to all of you.
Win-win.
You clearly haven't met my family.
In the end, my problem was that it just wasn't very good. It was Alf Garnett era humour, or Brian Rix farce. There were some good lines, and they could have done some really good work with some of the setups.
The odd think is that Francis de la Tour, in character, was probably completely safe from rape, on the grounds that she looked like she would have fucked anything that asked. No coercion required.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family, but I also get to feel superior to all of you.
I wonder how many Shippies don't watch telly.
I don't.
Shall we begin a superiority complex club?
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
Embrace the world of no television. Not only do i have regular conversations with my family, but I also get to feel superior to all of you.
I wonder how many Shippies don't watch telly.
I don't.
Shall we begin a superiority complex club?
I watch sport on television, so it's a means to an end. If I didn't enjoy sport, I doubt I would watch it at all.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Shall we begin a superiority complex club?
What another one? I thought the Evensong fan club was already one. Even though there is only one member.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Sarkycow
La belle Dame sans merci
# 1012
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Posted
But then they could compete over who was most superior.
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“Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar.”
Posts: 10787 | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
And then the English pedants' club could sweep in over the top.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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