Thread: Literally living in... Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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The Atlas of True Names has just been published, which tells it like it is.
They don't show the map of Britain (or anywhere other than America, in this article), but I'm sure we can add our own entries. Where might you be based, or have you lived somewhere interesting?
Yours, from the Place where the Oxen Cross the Stream, in the Land Shaped Like A Fish Hook.
[ 20. June 2013, 20:22: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on
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Of course being antipodean I can't relate to that map at all, but I grew up in a town called (translated) Very Dirty Oven.
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on
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Danish Ford, Reddish Land.
I have seen these floating around, and while they are interesting, I have a few quibbles with the map.
1. In some instances, they completely ignored history and went with an alternate (and in many cases, cuter) translation. North Carolina and South Carolina were named for King Charles. Now maybe the name "Carolina" means freewoman in some language, but that is not what "Carolina" in that state name means at all.
2. They call San Antonio "Saint Anthony" but they call San Diego "Saint Heelholder". Why do they just translate the saint's name to the English form in one case but give us the meaning of the Saint's name in the other?
I also noted that they just gave up on Coahuila (Wikipedia claims it means "Place of the Trees") (I only noticed because I recently made good on my promise to memorize the Mexican states; I doubt too many people pay much attention to it.)
But still a fun map, and I could spend lots of time looking at it.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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My childhood was distributed amongst Approach to the Sandbanks, the Mouth of the Bog, the Dog's Leap and Ulfrek's Fjord.
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
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So I seem to be in the Land of the War. Which isn't all that surprising, considering that it is situated between the Land of the Rebellious One and the New Isle of Spears...
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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This is a bit daft. Newfoundland actually means exactly what it says, the new found land, not 'new land of darkness'. Nova Scotia means New Scotland. And why does Seattle just mean Seattle? There's no such thing.
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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Virginia was not named for virgin land; it was named for the Virgin Queen, Elizabeth I.
Moo
Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on
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The Land of Cloudy Waters closer to The Crook than to Bridgeford.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
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I currently live in the Place We Cross Over The Peninsula (traditional name) having just moved here from Where Three Rivers Meet. Just a few miles away from here is the Valley of The North Wind.
I grew up (partially) in the Summer Camp of the Fish People and The Hill At The River's Mouth, as well as Where Three Rivers Meet.
all of these are in are area known as The Really Big Place/Mainland, whom the chamber types like to re-translate as The Great Land.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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Newport, aka Casnewydd (literally Newcastle) is "new" only by comparison with Caerleon which was founded by the Romans, a couple of miles further upstream. It has been permanently settled since the 5th century.
Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on
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There's a copy of the map of GB & Ireland (with a truncated Scotland) here .
The comments on the page mention some of the concerns mentioned upthread. It's kind of fun and annoying in equal measure.
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This is a bit daft. Newfoundland actually means exactly what it says, the new found land, not 'new land of darkness'. Nova Scotia means New Scotland. And why does Seattle just mean Seattle? There's no such thing.
According to my reading of the map, it's Nova Scotia that's called "New Land Of Darkness". Does anyone know if Scotland means "Land Of Darkness"?
This highlights a misleading aspect of the map. It can give you the wrong impression of why a particular place was given its name. My province, Alberta, is called "Noblebright's Land", which may very well be what the name means. But the people who named it Alberta weren't trying to imply that it was a place of nobility and brightness(cue central Canadian snickering), but were simply trying to honour Princess Alberta, who was presumably given that name in honour of her father Prince Albert.
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
This is a bit daft. Newfoundland actually means exactly what it says, the new found land, not 'new land of darkness'. Nova Scotia means New Scotland ...
Quite right, although the bit they've labelled as "new land of darkness" is actually Nova Scotia. Newfoundland isn't on the map; it's further to the east.
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on
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That's the problem with their translations of pretty much the entire Eastern Seaboard of the US; everything from the Carolinas up to Delaware was named for someone (King Charles, Queen Elizabeth, Queen Mary, Baron De La Warr, William Penn), and so, parse it how you will, you have to recognize that the Mid-Atlantic is named for actual people. Seriously, "Land of the Rebellious One" for Maryland? How do you cook up that one?
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ArachnidinElmet:
There's a copy of the map of GB & Ireland (with a truncated Scotland) here.
Oh, thanks for that. As someone with Westland ancestry and family from Darkpool (we used to joke about it being Blackpool) I'm interested to see this map. I wish they'd spent more time on the British Isles, though. And I dispute Unfordable River Town. I thought it was Lud's Fort.
Still, either is better than some. Thanks to the wonders of Google search, apparently I'm working in Sheep Shelter today.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Does anyone know if Scotland means "Land Of Darkness"?
To the best of my knowledge it means "Land of the Scots." This is a gross over simplification but Scotland was originally populated by Vikings (north and islands), Picts (north and east) and Scots(west), the Scots having originated from Ireland. The Scots expanded into Pictish territory, partially by intermarriage and the whole country ended up being Scotland.
I live at the head of the hill, which is still an accurate description of the place.
[ 21. June 2013, 09:09: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Scotland was originally populated by Vikings (north and islands), Picts (north and east) and Scots(west), the Scots having originated from Ireland. The Scots expanded into Pictish territory, partially by intermarriage and the whole country ended up being Scotland.
Or, in the immortal words of 1066 - The Scots (originally Irish, but by now Scotch) were at this time inhabiting Ireland, having driven the Irish (Picts) out of Scotland; while the Picts (originally Scots) were now Irish (living in brackets) and vice versa.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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I'm currently living in "Land of the Beautiful River," (Ohio) which seems a bit braggy to me considering most states have a river. Like, why is Tennessee merely "Land of the River," when it could be "Land of the Beautiful Mountains that Smoke?" So much more interesting. They all need renaming anyway. Ohio was once covered with trees but is now, "Land of Corn and Soybeans."
Posted by cheesymarzipan (# 9442) on
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I grew up in the End of the Road, near Fort.
Now I'm in Marshtown.
But what about places with two names? I see they've translated Wales rather than Cymru.
I like how some of the places in England are just what their normal name is - Blackpool, Newcastle, Land's End. On account of the language hasn't changed that much.
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Does anyone know if Scotland means "Land Of Darkness"?
To the best of my knowledge it means "Land of the Scots." This is a gross over simplification but Scotland was originally populated by Vikings (north and islands), Picts (north and east) and Scots(west), the Scots having originated from Ireland. The Scots expanded into Pictish territory, partially by intermarriage and the whole country ended up being Scotland.
I live at the head of the hill, which is still an accurate description of the place.
Don't forget the Britons of Strathclyde: 'Glasgow' is a Brythonic name, as is Lanark (Welsh 'llanerc': 'glade'). Or the Northumbrian Angles, who ruled up to the Lothians and as far west as Whithorn in Galloway for quite a long time (giving rise to the myth that their King, Edwin, is the origin of the name' 'Edinburgh': it is in fact recorded as 'Din Eidyn' befor he was born!)
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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I grew up in (the place by the) Foul well or spring, in the Land Asunder (from the church lands of Monkwearmouth and Bishopwearmouth), in the County of the Fort on the island (though the land in the River Wear at Durham ('Dunholm') is 'nearly' an island).
I now live in the Clearing of the Fort in the city named after the Ladenses ('those who dwell by the flowing one').
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
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Din Eidyn - Which is, again, Brythonic.
It is a strange quirk that the oldest Welsh literature comes not from Wales but from southern Scotland...
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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I just looked at the map that the link goes to: Leeds is shown as 'Boiling River Town' which is nearly right (I should have put 'strongly flowing' in my post above).
Carlisle they get totally wrong ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
: it is not the 'Island stronghold at all, (presuambly from 'Caer' and 'isle'). It is 'the fort or stronghold of the god Luguvalos (Roman-era Latin 'Luguvallium', from an older Brythonic name) and recorded as 'Caer Luel' in Old Welsh.
[ 21. June 2013, 13:00: Message edited by: Alaric the Goth ]
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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I was born in the Land of the Successor in the City of the Messenger.
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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I have known that 'Nottingham' means 'Home of Snot's people' for some time...
I agree with Alaric that they've got the meaning of Caer Luel completely wrong. On the other hand, 'Yew-Tree Village' is the etymologists' best guess at the original meaning of York.
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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I have always found it amusing that a rather rich part of Leeds (that a couple of friends of mine live in! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
) called 'Adel' means something like 'the stinking marsh' or even 'cess pit'!!
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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A regular billboard round Belfast in my childhood showed a tin of stridently yellow peaches and the slogan 'Ardmona is Australian for sunshine!' To which I always wanted to add: But it's Irish for the Height Bog (and should be Ardnamona).
Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on
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Twilight wrote:
quote:
I'm currently living in "Land of the Beautiful River," (Ohio) which seems a bit braggy to me considering most states have a river.
But how many states can brag a river where heaven just fell on the earth in the form of Gardenias?
[ 21. June 2013, 16:06: Message edited by: Stetson ]
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on
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As an editor, I would love to be living in the land where people speak normally. To bad Illinois is normally translated as Tribe of Warrior Men or some such.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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I live in the Burnt Grove, and used to go on holiday to Blackpool.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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(LA is my hometown)
Our daughter was born in Long Beach, California
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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Here (see below) we like to claim that our intrusive 'l' has converted 'Brigstowe' (place of the bridge, the bridge being the one in the centre of the city) to its familiar form.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Twilight wrote:
quote:
I'm currently living in "Land of the Beautiful River," (Ohio) which seems a bit braggy to me considering most states have a river.
But how many states can brag a river where heaven just fell on the earth in the form of Gardenias?
Well thank you for that Stetson, it makes a better image for me than Willie killing his girl friend on the banks of the Ohio because she would not be his bride.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
And why does Seattle just mean Seattle? There's no such thing.
There is indeed such a thing. Seattle is named after an Indian chief named ... wait for it ... Seattle. He was from the Duwamish tribe, and his name, when written as his name and not the name of the city, is usually (in these parts) spelled Sealth. His baptismal name (he was Catholic) was Noah.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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Also, he parses Boston wrong. It's from either Botolph's Town or Botolph's Stone, and is named after St. Botolph, whose name in Anglo-Saxon was "Botwulf" from "wulf" meaning wolf, and "bot" meaning variously salvation, redemption, repair, rescue, etc.
Yes and Maryland would be from Maria meaning "bitter".
[ 21. June 2013, 19:39: Message edited by: mousethief ]
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Also, he parses Boston wrong. It's from either Botolph's Town or Botolph's Stone, and is named after St. Botolph, whose name in Anglo-Saxon was "Botwulf" from "wulf" meaning wolf, and "bot" meaning variously salvation, redemption, repair, rescue, etc.
Yes and Maryland would be from Maria meaning "bitter".
That's undoubtedly correct. The original Boston, which the one in the US is called after, has a large church with a tower on it called a Stump which is dedicated to St Botolph. The town is called after him. So Boston Mass also means town of St Botolph.
I though Maryland was founded by a Catholic nobleman and named after the most holy Theotokos.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I though Maryland was founded by a Catholic nobleman and named after the most holy Theotokos.
'Tis true. And "Mary" comes from the Hebrew word for "bitter."
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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So anyone from Boston is really from The Place of the Wolf that Found Redemption?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
So anyone from Boston is really from The Place of the Wolf that Found Redemption?
Or the Wolf that Saves.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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Here's the pages. I misremembered slightly.
Page 1: help, assistance, remedy, cure
Page 2: mending, repair, remedy, improvement (if you read down it can include moral improvement, but not salvation as I mistakenly remembered)
Page 3 (the verb, botian): To get better, recover from illness
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on
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Slight etymological tangent:
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Does anyone know if Scotland means "Land Of Darkness"?
To the best of my knowledge it means "Land of the Scots." ...
I was reading an article in The Orcadian the other day (my dad sends me some every few weeks) about King Hakon IV of Norway, who died in Orkney. It mentioned that Orkney was one of the "skattlands" (skatt meaning "tax"). I wonder if this is related to the words scot for a form of tax (as in "scot-free") and scutage (a medieval tax levied on a vassal in lieu of military service), or, indeed, if it's anything to do with the name Scotland?
May have to do further research ...
[ 22. June 2013, 03:24: Message edited by: piglet ]
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I though Maryland was founded by a Catholic nobleman and named after the most holy Theotokos.
'Tis true. And "Mary" comes from the Hebrew word for "bitter."
Actually, not true. The original holder of the charter, Lord Baltimore, was Catholic.
Howeva...
Maryland was named for Charles I's wife, Henrietta Maria. (See , see , & See also)
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Maryland was named for Charles I's wife, Henrietta Maria. (See , see , & See also)
Well I'll be.
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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piglet: quote:
I was reading an article in The Orcadian the other day (my dad sends me some every few weeks) about King Hakon IV of Norway, who died in Orkney. It mentioned that Orkney was one of the "skattlands" (skatt meaning "tax"). I wonder if this is related to the words scot for a form of tax (as in "scot-free") and scutage (a medieval tax levied on a vassal in lieu of military service), or, indeed, if it's anything to do with the name Scotland?
Soo... Land of the Heavily Taxed? Land of the Draft Dodgers? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Though technically, Orkney is not really part of Scotland because the Scotti never lived there; it was all Caledonians until the Norwegians arrived (she says, trying to remember the details of the later stages of 'Britannia')
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
I wonder if this is related to the words scot for a form of tax (as in "scot-free")...
I had always assumed that 'scot-free' meant that once you got over the border, you were safe from English authorities.
Moo
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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Not if they were in hot pursuit, but whether or not you were pursued over the border did depend on how well the English and Scottish authorities were getting on at the time the crime was committed...
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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...and indeed where the border was that week. Not known as the Debatable Lands for nothing.
Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on
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I am an Elliott, so we knew the Debateable Lands well! As did my Graham (Scottish side) and Charlton (English side) forebears!
'Scot' is from the Roman word 'Scotti' for 'Irishmen' (possibly meaning something like 'brigand' or 'pirate'), and has nothing to do with 'scot'-free, which is from an Old English word for tax or payment. There is a Scotland in north Leeds, but it simply means 'land (which was)subject to taxation'.
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on
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There is also a Wales in South Yorkshire.
Jengie
Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Though technically, Orkney is not really part of Scotland because the Scotti never lived there; it was all Caledonians until the Norwegians arrived (she says, trying to remember the details of the later stages of 'Britannia')
Haven't played Britannia in ages , must get it out ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I live in Trumpington and, unsurprisingly, the village sign shows medieval trumpets. Given our location 3 miles south of Cambridge on the main route there from London, I assume grand medieval visitors were heralded here and set up camp. This tradition of 'last stop before Cambridge' is further emphasised by the 17th century coaching inn on the high street (albeit now a restaurant).
The village features in the Domesday survey and there has been settlements here since the Neolithic period.
Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on
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My home town was originally named after its 6th century Saxon founder, Waendel (there is a weekend walk every year which is still named after him). It's also on the site of 5 ancient wells, which is why the name now starts with "Well..".
Now I live in Stirling, which according to wikipedia (lifted directly from the City of Stirling website) means either "place of battle, struggle or strife", or is based on the Brythonic for "dwelling place of Melyn" (whoever Melyn was).
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