Ship of Fools: Reading Something Religious

Thread: Reading Something Religious Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by lilyswinburne (# 12934) on :

Often I get the urge to "read something religious" (other than the Bible). Can anyone give me any recommendations? I have read almost all of the Buddhist literature of the past 50 years, and am looking for something more - dare I say - Christian.

Many thanks.

Lily

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Have you read Thich Nhat Hanh's Living Buddha, Living Christ and Going Home: Jesus and Buddha As Brothers? You might like some of Thomas Merton's works, too. He was a Trappist monk who was interested in Eastern religions and other forms of monasticism. New Seeds Of Contemplation is good.

Is there any particular kind of Christian lit you want? Fiction, devotionals, mysticism, personal accounts, academic theology?

Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :

How about Tom Wright's book Simply Christian?

He's one of the world's leading theologians, and an Anglican bishop, and it's his readable basic intro to Christianity.

Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :

Second the Merton; a book of readings if you are not familiar with him.

Rumer Godden In This House of Brede.

Our Lady of the Lost and Found by Diane Schoemperlen

Readings of Julian of Norwich

H.H.The Dalai Lama

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
How about Tom Wright's book Simply Christian?

He's one of the world's leading theologians, and an Anglican bishop, and it's his readable basic intro to Christianity.

'Leading' - no.

Evangelical - yes.

Readable - yes.

Stodgy - yes.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

It would help to know more about what you enjoy reading - fiction or nonfiction? Poetry? Books on spirituality? Biography or memoir? History, or sociology of religion? Theology? Writings by practitioners or by people critical of a religion? If fiction, do you like allegory, fantasy, intrigue, comedy? Are you looking for something where religion itself is the subject of the work, or something written from a religious perspective? And so forth.

If you want to read something not unlike Scriptures, you could look to the writings of early saints. (ETA: Penguin Classics has a good volume.) If you want biography/memoir, I highly recommend Teresa of Avila's Life.

[ 13. July 2013, 20:21: Message edited by: churchgeek ]

Posted by lilyswinburne (# 12934) on :

Thanks for the suggestions. I have read most of the books by the Dalai Lama, as well as all of Thich Nhat Hanh. I have read Merton and do not care for him. I have read "In this house of Brede", which I find a bit melodramatic. I would never read Tom Wright - I know we would not get along.

Our Lady of the Lost and Found looks interesting - I'll try it.

I'm beginning to think, from reading the answers on this thread, that I am trying to find some Christian writers who resonate with me, but actually there aren't any.

I loathe CS Lewis, by the way.

I read "Radical Reinvention" by Kaya Oakes and liked it, but still didn't really understand at the end of the book why she remained Catholic.

I read "The Essential Writings of Christian Mysticism" by Bernard McGinn and felt that those were all people who really needed a good meal.

I welcome more suggestions.

Lily

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

A book that I keep coming back to, and must have read a dozen times, is Kallistos Ware's The Orthodox Way. This short book is wise, compassionate and humane in its exposition of an Orthodox view of God and his world. It even manages to pack in a treasure trove of quotations from Orthodox and non-Orthodox authors. If I had to nominate one book that succeeded in making Christianity attractive, I think this would be it.

Posted by lilyswinburne (# 12934) on :

I have read "The Orthodox Way" and liked it! Unfortunately the Orthodox are not known for their acceptance of gay people.

The search continues.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

What about the (in)famous Taming the Tiger? I hear it's high up on the ladder of inspirational fiction, though may soon be out of print. [Biased]

Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on :

I read a lovely book last year called "An altar in the World" by Barbara Brown Taylor. As I finished each chapter, I felt like I'd eaten a wonderful meal.

If you hadn't disliked C.S. Lewis I would have suggested "The Lion's World" by Rowan Williams which I found stunningly beautiful as well as thought provoking.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

I am wondering if Classics of Western Spirituality might be a place to start. They are catholic and fairly eclectic. They are collection of writings from people of many different stances through the centuries. Be warned they are not going to be easy reading but then you are making contact with writers who have often shaped the spirit of Western Christianity.

Jengie

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

There's an edition of The Imitation of Christ with an introduction by a Buddhist (and the last book, on the Eucharist, cut out). The Imitation of Christ isn't to my taste, but at least some Buddhists seem to get along with it.

Which Merton have you read? If it's The Seven Story Mountain, then that's an early work when he was a fire-breathing convert - he later became more moderate with a deeper spirituality and politics.

Law's Serious Call to a Devout and Holy Life might be worth reading. Brother Lawrence's Practice of the Presence of God is another classic.
The Heart in Pilgrimage by Christopher Bryant, if you can find a copy, is if I remember Christian Jungian and so might be of interest.

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :

Have you come across Kathleen Norris? She wrote The Cloister Walk and Amazing Grace. In the Cloister Walk she talks about her time living with Benedictine monks in Minnesota, and Amazing Grace is sub-titled A Vocabulary of Faith. I found them both stunningly good - she talks about meditation and the Benedictine tradition a lot.

Posted by Hilda of Whitby (# 7341) on :

Margaret Guenther and Martin L. Smith are Episcopal priests who have written about topics like: the spirituality of old age; prayer; lectio divina; etc.

They both write well. Martin Smith is gay, and Margaret Guenther is quite gay-friendly.

They are two of my favorite spiritual writers. I have read and re-read the books of theirs that I have.

I also greatly admire Dietrich Bonhoeffer. He has some tough-minded things to say. It's quite bracing.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
How about Tom Wright's book Simply Christian?

He's one of the world's leading theologians, and an Anglican bishop, and it's his readable basic intro to Christianity.
'Leading' - no.

Evangelical - yes.

Readable - yes.

Stodgy - yes.

Is he really an Evangelical?

Oh dear.....no wonder my (broad church - slightly up the candle) supervisor was so silent when I proclaimed the bishop one of my favourite theologians in my recent sermon.

[Ultra confused]

Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
'Leading' - no.

OK - I'll bite.

In what sense is Tom Wright not a leading theologian?

Except of course in the sense that he doesn't lead people away from the historic Christian faith...

He's a research professor at one of the top British theology faculties; he's probably the top living scholar on New Testament. Whether or not you agree with him, engaging with his views are pretty much essential on almost any university course in Biblical studies in the world. He has 6 honorary doctorates, including an Oxford DD - the highest degree they award to anyone, ever. He's published so many books you'd need a small van to carry them all.

If he isn't a leading theologian, I honestly can't think of a single living person who is. There are a few others in the same league (Rowan Williams, Miroslav Volf, Wolfhart Pannenberg for example), but the isn't another division above them.

Speaking of which, lilyswinburne, have you tried reading one of Miroslav Volf's books of short essays? They're very thought provoking.

Posted by Trudy Scrumptious (# 5647) on :

I second the recommendations of books by Barbara Brown Taylor and Kathleen Norris, and would also suggest Anne Lamott and Nora Gallagher if you haven't tried anything by then. All memoirs, more or less.

Posted by daronmedway (# 3012) on :

Weird as it sounds, I'm with leo on this one. I know I should like Tom Wright but there's something about the way he writes that just sort of creeps me out. It's as if he's saying words with which, by-and-large, I can agree, but I feel there's a hidden something - a sort of melancholic impersonality - that doesn't quite sit right with me.

[ 15. July 2013, 10:46: Message edited by: daronmedway ]

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
'Leading' - no.

Evangelical - yes.

Readable - yes.

Stodgy - yes.
Is he really an Evangelical?

Yes, he's an evangelical. He's a UK Evangelical, which is a bit of a different beast from a US Evangelical. I suspect he'd come out on the politically sound side of the US Evangelical sexual morality litmus tests: I know he's anti-same-sex marriage, I think he's anti-abortion (what are the other ones?). The difference is of course that he's politically left-wing, and at least in theory treats poverty as more important than sexual morality; also, he's pro-Palestinian and against armed intervention. (Whereas in the US sexual morality appears to be treated as a proxy for ignoring poverty.)

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Readable - yes.

Stodgy - yes.

I confess that I don't see how someone can be readable and stodgy at the same time. I think you're just looking for something rude to say.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Tom Wright commits the cardinal sin of being Popular. Serious theologians aren't allowed to be Popular.

Having said that, I agree with daronmedway that there's something about Wright's writing that I find difficult to engage with. I think he speaks better than he writes.

"Reading something religious" - it depends why you're reading it. Very often these days I'll go back to my single small shelf of books on religious subjects that I'll read purely for pleasure, and the pleasure is often as much in the literary style as in the content. It includes things like William Temple's "Readings in St John's Gospel", Christopher Jamieson's "Finding Sanctuary", and a good translation of the Rule of St Benedict.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
In what sense is Tom Wright not a leading theologian?

One way would be that he's dispersing himself in too many books of popular theology. I'd like to see him get on with the Big Book of Paul and the Big Book of the Gospels. Furthermore, I think he tends to fall back on a few too many stock dismissals slightly too often. (For example, he has a tendency to dismiss some kinds of theory that play down Jesus' roots in Judaism as being anti-semitic as if that's sufficient.)
Finally, there's a distinction between biblical studies and theology, and Wright is definitely on the biblical studies side.

Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilyswinburne:
I have read "The Orthodox Way" and liked it! Unfortunately the Orthodox are not known for their acceptance of gay people.

The search continues.

Without wishing to exhume any horses, is this cutting off your nose to spite your face? You're looking for some interesting reading that resonates with you; that doesn't mean signing up to The Orthodox Plot™ lock, stock and barrel, surely?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilyswinburne:
I have read "The Orthodox Way" and liked it! Unfortunately the Orthodox are not known for their acceptance of gay people.

The search continues.

Many orthodoxen are far more accepting that RCs are.

The main difference seems to be that RCs approach gays 'juridically' - what is right and wrong.

Orthodoxen are more pastoral.

Orthodox priest Fr. Thomas Hopko has written some very empathetic stuff about gays.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Readable - yes.

Stodgy - yes.
I confess that I don't see how someone can be readable and stodgy at the same time. I think you're just looking for something rude to say.

He wrote a very readable book about millenarianist movements in the run up to the year 2000.

He is more stodgy on television - he always looks depressed.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I was overwhelmed by Nicholas Buxton's Tantalus and the Pelican. He spent a long time (most of his 20s) in the Far East in ashrams or Buddhist monasteries. Here's more about it - http://www.nicholasbuxton.net/

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
In what sense is Tom Wright not a leading theologian?

Except of course in the sense that he doesn't lead people away from the historic Christian faith...

I don't believe that theologians are meant to be leading anyone anywhere.

Their task is to follow truth wherever it leads THEM.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Someone eminently gay friendly is Sara Maitland. I don't know if A Big Enough God is still in print, but I'd highly recommend it. It is over ten years old, but it is a wonderfully individual exploration of Christian orthodoxy in the light of post-modernism, post-structuralism and post-Newtonisn science.

James Alison is a bit gay friendly also http://www.jamesalison.co.uk/

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I've just read Alison's Knowing Jesus, although I'm not sure I really get the theories of Rene Girard on which is based.

I heard him give a talk recently and he's a lovely guy.

Faith without Resentment was my first experience of him.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Sara's wonderful. I knew her before she because a hermit.

Alison, I know. he is more than 'gay friendly' given that he is, himself, gay.

Have read all his books - and most of Sara's.

Both of them highly recommended by me.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Alison, I know. he is more than 'gay friendly' given that he is, himself, gay.

A smidgen of English understatement there on my behalf.

Both of them could persuade me to become a Roman Catholic - there's no need to take any account of drivel that church leaders say, just keep on going to mass. Which is pretty well what I do in any case.

Both of them are highly recommended by Rowan Williams, which po faced Episcopalian who condemn him as a dreadful homophobe might like to ponder.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

My understanding of Tom Wright is that he is a Biblical Scholar not a theologian. Given that theology itself divides into Practical* and Divinity with only Divinity claiming the high ground of being proper theology. Then you get divisions within divinity: Dogmatics, Philosophical, Historical etc you can see how someone can say Tom Wright is not a leading theologian. I really would not expect him to attend Society for the Study of Theology but I would expect him to attend the British New Testament Society.

Jengie

*Practical divides into a range as well including ethics, pastoral, contextual, liberation and sociological

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :

Another one that I liked very much, and picked up completely at random, is Pelican in the Wilderness by Isabel Colegate. She started off by finding that there was a ruined hermit's cell in her garden (a large garden, obviously) and collected lots of stories about hermits from various religious traditions.

Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :

If you want something light and frothy, I've just re-read "The St. Gargoyle's Diet", which is surprisingly hard hitting.

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