Ship of Fools: Sideways thinking

Thread: Sideways thinking Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

I recently had cause to drive a hired Fiat Panda for a couple of days. The handbrake, instead of the traditional long thin thing with button on the end, was more like a square flap with the button on the side. It looked odd but it turned out to be the most natural thing in the world as I applied it to slide four fingers under the flap and press the button with my thumb. My wrist didn't need to rotate at all in the process. It made me wonder why the more traditional shape of handbrake ever caught on.

Have shipmates any other experiences of novel takes on existing gadgets that worked out for the best? Or ideas for same?

Posted by AngloCatholicGirl (# 16435) on :

A friend of mine had an upright computer mouse with the buttons on the right side, rather than on top. It meant that instead of your hand being palm down on the mouse, it was on the side.

It felt very counter-intuitive to start with, but was actually much more comfortable to use long term as you weren't twisting your hand to be palm down all the time. I believe my friend got the mouse because they had carpal tunnel syndrome and this mouse was better for the wrist.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

For those of you living in England try putting your doors so that they open outwards rather than inwards. You'll find it's much better, especially when small rooms or toilet cubicles are concerned.

Posted by AngloCatholicGirl (# 16435) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
For those of you living in England try putting your doors so that they open outwards rather than inwards. You'll find it's much better, especially when small rooms or toilet cubicles are concerned.

But then *gasp* we'd have to do things like those foreigners [Devil]

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
For those of you living in England try putting your doors so that they open outwards rather than inwards.

They do open outwards. It just depends which side you're on.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

The handbrake on my husband's car has a button on the dashboard for a handbrake - odd, but much better for the back.

[Smile]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
For those of you living in England try putting your doors so that they open outwards rather than inwards. You'll find it's much better, especially when small rooms or toilet cubicles are concerned.

Easier said than done. Our small laundry room had a door that opened inward, obviously designed by someone who hadn't thought about actually having a laundry machine in the room- even with the door shut, you were going to have about a foot of room to load and unload the laundry. We removed the door, and thought that we would just re-install it the other way. But then you start looking at the frame, the stop, the fact that you would need to drill a new hole for the latch to slide into, and it becomes a task beyond my meager carpentry skills. For now, it's not causing any harm having a random door leaning against a wall in the basement, so we are spending money on other more pressing projects, but one of these days, we are finally going to hire someone to fix that.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

A cousin changed the door round on the bathroom as a safety matter for his wife - so that if she collapsed in there, the door could be opened. Utterly obvious.

What gets me are the prize winning toilets at Heston service station on the M4. The cubicles have doors opening inwards, with the arc almost touching the seats. At the side of the seat on the non-hinge side is a disposal box. There is thus a very small triangular space on the floor to stand on when shutting the door. I have great difficulty, and though not as small as doctors would advise, I am not a large as many women. I cannot see how the cleaners can reach all the floor, either.

Heston is not the only one like this. But it is the only one which advertises its award.

I think it is usually unacceptably sexist to use the following expression, but here goes.... designed by a man. The phrase, when used with a sort of sighing shrug by a woman, is not intended as a compliment*. Further, in this case, awarded by a man.

Open the things outwards - please.

*It almost always refers to not having thought through the entire process of use, especially the cleaning of whatever it is. (See thread on not designed to be cleaned.)

[ 19. July 2013, 17:15: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I forget who it was said 'architect-designed' always suggested somewhere you had to hold the toilet door shut with your foot.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I don't know, but John Betjeman mentioned the popular conception that architects forget to put stairs in the houses they design ...

Posted by Signaller (# 17495) on :

Seems to me the main reasons doors don't open outwards are that the hall/landing would be seriously restricted unless you closed the door every time you went into a room, and that anyone walking through said hall/landing is likely to get a door in the face. YMMV, if houses in the US are sufficiently large for this not to be a problem. Or didn't someone say a little while ago that you don't have doors at all?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

IME, American homes have fewer doors on average because they are much newer on average. With all the insulation that accompanies this.

Posted by Otter (# 12020) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Signaller:
Or didn't someone say a little while ago that you don't have doors at all?

Yes, we lost them in the Great Door Blight of '73. Where once we had doors of all kinds - pocket, bi-fold, hollow-core, steel, and more, today we live in a blighted landscape, where a portal with a door is a special thing and privacy is lost, lost, like the mighty, um, something or other that we lost.

Cherish your doors, my brethren! Cherish them! Polish them lovingly, oil their hinges, take pleasure in the sensual sliding of their mechanisms, grasp their knobs firmly, and turn them slowly, yet sensually, and, and . . .

(goes off to take a cold shower and have a lie-down. This silliness brought to you by a bad case of Friday Afternoon)

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

And if you have a door that opens out, it sets up this problem if you ever need to keep someone out (a few f-bombs in there, for anyone with small kids or bosses nearby).

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
What gets me are the prize winning toilets at Heston service station on the M4. The cubicles have doors opening inwards, with the arc almost touching the seats. At the side of the seat on the non-hinge side is a disposal box. There is thus a very small triangular space on the floor to stand on when shutting the door. I have great difficulty, and though not as small as doctors would advise, I am not a large as many women.

The old Boston Garden had toilet stalls so small you could barely close the door. The Boston Garden is where they used to have the circus. I had to squeeze myself and two small daughters in that space and try to close the door. This is the only kind of situation where I regretted having daughters rather than sons.

Moo

Posted by Felafool (# 270) on :

The parking brake on my car is a foot brake, similar to that used in golf buggies

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
IME, American homes have fewer doors on average because they are much newer on average. With all the insulation that accompanies this.

I don't understand. What has the age of the property got to do with it? New houses in the UK have just as many doors as old ones of the same size. Can't Americans afford doors any more?

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Lol. No, UK design is informed by a time when doors were more needed to keep heat in each room. Before efficient heating schemes and insulation. American house designs are largely born after these innovations and the designs are influenced by this. Or so it seems to me.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
The parking brake on my car is a foot brake, similar to that used in golf buggies

I've had cars with foot brakes, which is fine unless you drive a stick shift. (I've seen stick shift cars with foot brakes -- a really bad idea if you live anywhere with hills.)

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Have any of you tried computer keyboards that are slightly curved (as it might be, the shape of a smile)? I remember seeing one once, and as someone who was taught to type on a "typewriter"* it struck me as very strange indeed, although the person who used it said she found it quite comfortable.

While I'm at it, I Condemn To Hell (in a fluffy, heavenly sort of way) the blithering idiot who designed the keyboard of the computer at the Cathedral office, which has a backwards-slash key in the place where your little finger goes for the "enter" key. WHY??????? [Mad]

* yes, I really am that old. [Big Grin]

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
Have any of you tried computer keyboards that are slightly curved (as it might be, the shape of a smile)? I remember seeing one once, and as someone who was taught to type on a "typewriter"* it struck me as very strange indeed, although the person who used it said she found it quite comfortable.

Ergonomic Keyboards of the milder sort use the curved key layout. I use one, it puts a lot less stress on the carpal tunnel. More extreme keyboards do things like have a separate well for each hand or have the keys in vertical clusters.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

I saw a keyboard which each half pivoted up, away from the centre. Adjustable angle. Looked a bit fragile, which may be why I have only seen one.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I forget who it was said 'architect-designed' always suggested somewhere you had to hold the toilet door shut with your foot.

The new Aberdeen University toilets have no paper towels, and the hot-air dryers are positioned above the side of the toilet. On several occasions I've dripped water on the toilet seat while drying my hands, not wanted to leave the toilet looking other than "clean" so wiped the seat dry with toilet paper, then re-washed my hands, dripped water on the seat while drying them....

They are getting better - it used to be that your shoulder turned the hand dryer on whilst you were in situ, and the sinks had motion sensors which initially were so sensitive that they'd turn on if you hung a bag on the hook on the door, and again when you unhooked it. They seem to have desensitised the automatic sensors, though this now also means that the automatic light waits for three seconds before lighting up.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I forget who it was said 'architect-designed' always suggested somewhere you had to hold the toilet door shut with your foot.

Try a parsonage house drawn up with the "assistance" of a Parsonage Board committee [Eek!]

...

The finest example I encountered had the following innovative features:

floor-to-ceiling windows in the study which you had to pass to reach the front door - no chance of saying 'the vicar's out' then
a kitchen extractor which came out next to the front door
hot water pipes going through every single kitchen cupboard, high and low level
a bath so short it had to be imported from France (rather than reducing the size of a useless cupboard)
'fitted' wardrobes with hanging rails at 6 foot with a shelf above, nothing else: very useful for children and people less than 6' tall, specially with no space in 3 out of 4 rooms for a chest of drawers
a visitors' loo so cramped the bowl of the toilet extended more than halfway across the doorway so only way to use was to have door fully open

When the living was amalgamated they tried to sell the house - ALL local estate agents cited the layout and design as making it nigh on impossible to sell. After 18 months unsold they tried to let out - couldn't manage that either. Latest local gossip is that it will be sold as a 'development project', in other words the only solution is to demolish and build something sensible. [Killing me]

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
While I'm at it, I Condemn To Hell (in a fluffy, heavenly sort of way) the blithering idiot who designed the keyboard of the computer at the Cathedral office, which has a backwards-slash key in the place where your little finger goes for the "enter" key. WHY???????

* yes, I really am that old.

IIRC Apple keyboards have always had that layout. My struggle is when I use a Windows keyboard and find myself typing " instead of @, or more usually simply struggling to find the @ key at all.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

When I used to drive my mother's car, I would often switch on the windscreen wipers when I wanted to turn left ... because the stick to operate the flashers was on the opposite side to my car's

When (many moons ago) I did a course on Ergonomics, it was pointed out that "non-standard" design (e.g. valves that turn the "wrong" way) could be dangerous in an emergency as people tended to default under stress to the standard operation.

Please note (UK readers) how, in the opening credits of "Have I Got News For You", the valve is turned anti-clockwise to shut off the flow of Russian oil. Very clever, these foreigners!

[ 20. July 2013, 11:21: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
As someone who was taught to type on a "typewriter" (yes, I really am that old) ...

You should read this, then!

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I use an ergonomic keyboard when I can. I love it - it makes a bog difference.

We had a car on holiday in France which had an automatic hand brake. It was a clever idea, but it worried me what would happen if the power failed - I wasn't sure exactly how it worked.

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :

After a car bump I was given a hire car with a button handbrake - you had to have your foot on the brake and press the button which triggered a gentle whirring noise and a light.

I Hated It!!!

I missed the physical sensation of the stick handbrake and lived in fear of needing hill tarts as I would normally have the car in handbrake with feet on clutch and accelerator braced for takeoff.

Very glad to get my nice little car hoe,

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Avila:

I... lived in fear of needing hill tarts...
Very glad to get my nice little car hoe.

Always a great fear [Biased]

(I'm not even touching "Little car hoe"!)

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I use an ergonomic keyboard when I can. I love it - it makes a bog difference.

So we see

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
... when I use a Windows keyboard and find myself typing " instead of @ ...

That's interesting - I thought it was a cross-Pond thing. It took me ages to get used to the " and @ keys being in the opposite places to where I was used to when I came over here.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

It is*. Depends on the keyboard layout.

ETA: *a cross-pond thing.

[ 21. July 2013, 06:10: Message edited by: Wesley J ]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I use an ergonomic keyboard when I can. I love it - it makes a bog difference.
So we see

I don't use it on the laptop, which is why my posts are so crap. That, and the fact that I am an idiot.

Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I use an ergonomic keyboard when I can. I love it - it makes a bog difference.

We had a car on holiday in France which had an automatic hand brake. It was a clever idea, but it worried me what would happen if the power failed - I wasn't sure exactly how it worked.

I use an ergonomic keyboard which is basically like a normal keyboard hinged in two halves which you place at exactly the angle which you find most comfortable. When I have to go back to a "normal" keyboard I hate it.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

While staying in a hotel one day last week, I did a little clothes washing in the bathroom sink. Silly me, I hadn't even thought to check out the (open air) closet space, and found I couldn't reach the bar to hang my damp blouses up. Yes, I'm short, but holy smokes, shouldn't closets be made for those of us who aren't six feet tall?

I ended up hanging them in the bathroom...well my taller friend did that for me. The shower curtain rod was too high, too. So was the curtain rod at the window.

Maybe I should ask for a short person accessible room, next time! [Razz]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Normal-sized person accessible room. Bloody giants...

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

I have a lovely friend who has kept her figure, nearing 60, but somehow manages not to be normal size for anything.

As she says, the only thing in Marks & Spencer that fits her is socks - and then from the children's department.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

If I believed in reincarnation, I would want to come back a standard size.

Moo

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Sideways thinking and the mention of hotel rooms reminds me of one I stayed in where you couldn’t quite open the door because it banged against the bed. The wardrobe door couldn’t be opened to its fullest extent either for the same reason. Towels had to be left on the bed as there was no room for them in the bathroom. And sideways thinking was very definitely needed to get in there.

I was the latest in undoubtedly a long, long line of people who were charged through the nose for this sort of thing and consoled themselves with "It’s only for a couple of nights". The cost of two nights in that hotel room was equivalent to a week’s rent, but I didn’t think of that at the time.

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Normal-sized person accessible room. Bloody giants...

I would like to add a request for a shower head that is designed for normal-sized persons. They're either so high that there's no water pressure by the time it reaches you... or so low you have to stoop to wash your hair.

Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Sideways thinking and the mention of hotel rooms reminds me of one I stayed in where you couldn’t quite open the door because it banged against the bed.

That reminded me of a holiday I went on with my parents in 1972 to Norway. We went on the rather lovely Leda. My mother had a nice, spacious single cabin, while my father and I shared a small cabin with two bunks. The space beside the bunks was literally too narrow to turn round in. You had to go out of the cabin, or use the bunk. But it was just one night.

I suspect the door opened outwards...

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Normal-sized person accessible room. Bloody giants...
I would like to add a request for a shower head that is designed for normal-sized persons. They're either so high that there's no water pressure by the time it reaches you... or so low you have to stoop to wash your hair.

LOL, I was attempting to say jj is normal-sized, not short. What you consider normal-sized, I would consider "bloody giant."

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

What especially irritates me is the location of peepholes on motel doors. They are so high that a short person would have to drag a chair to the door and climb up on it.

Moo

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Sideways thinking and the mention of hotel rooms reminds me of one I stayed in where you couldn’t quite open the door because it banged against the bed.
That reminded me of a holiday I went on with my parents in 1972 to Norway. We went on the rather lovely Leda. My mother had a nice, spacious single cabin, while my father and I shared a small cabin with two bunks. The space beside the bunks was literally too narrow to turn round in. You had to go out of the cabin, or use the bunk. But it was just one night.

I suspect the door opened outwards...

Tangent... Thanks for the memory... The Leda was a lovely ship, but I am sure it didn't have stabilisers. I remember those tiny cabins too. Sailed on it from Newcastle to Bergen in September 1968, the only time I've ever been seasick, but sailing into Bergen on a bright morning will stay in the memory for as long as I have two neurons to rub together.

[ 22. July 2013, 22:18: Message edited by: Stercus Tauri ]

Posted by OddJob (# 17591) on :

In these days of converging male and female roles, is it asking too much for kitchen sinks and pushchairs to be designed for an average 5ft 8ins adult of 2013 rather than the average 5ft 4 ins woman of 40 years ago? Ideally they should suit the vast majority of the adult poulation between 5ft 2ins and 6ft 2 ins.

Electronic handbrakes may be easier to use, but on balance are less user-friendly when you factor in the usual need for a computer and software to retract the caliper pistons before fitting new brake pads.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
LOL, I was attempting to say jj is normal-sized, not short. What you consider normal-sized, I would consider "bloody giant."

[tangent]

Not to my friend! When I've been asked how tall I am (and she has had the great fortune to witness that question many times) she about falls over laughing. Of course, she's descended from Vikings, so has a bird's eye view of the top of my head. [/tangent]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Come the revolution, if you can see over the wall, you will be put against it.

Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I forget who it was said 'architect-designed' always suggested somewhere you had to hold the toilet door shut with your foot.

But of course you don't use the appalling real estate agents' expression 'architecturally designed', which to me must mean 'designed on architectural principles'. Actually realtors' fliers can be counted on to provide hilarious non-grammatical examples; they often feature in the 'Life in NZ' columns in our Listener.

All external doors in public buildings should open outwards, for safety in case of fire. But I don't think it's mandatory.

GHG

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

It's hairdryers in hotel rooms that get me. They are universally crap - some are affixed to the back of a drawer with a cord just slightly too short to enable you to dry your hair while looking in the mirror; others have to be held on by holding down a switch which you really need a broken thumb to reach...

The best was a hotel in Ireland where the hairdryer was in a unit that included a seat and a fold-up lid with a mirror, the idea, I assume, being that you could sit comfortably at the unit and dry your hair in front of the mirror. Which might have been the case if the mirror wasn't much too high if I sat down and much too low if I stood up. I had to crouch at an awkward angle. Still, no doubt it was good for my thigh muscles.

And don't get me started on lighting in hotel rooms...

This is a bit hellish for heaven!

M.

Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on :

Why stop at the handbrake? Lose the steering wheel and pedals and replace with a joystick. Simples.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Why stop at the handbrake? Lose the steering wheel and pedals and replace with a joystick. Simples.

That's what some cars were like a century ago.

Moo

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by M.:

And don't get me started on lighting in hotel rooms...

Usually about 15 watts and much too low for reading in bed.
[Mad]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by M.:

And don't get me started on lighting in hotel rooms...
Usually about 15 watts and much too low for reading in bed.

This is one of the reasons I am considering getting an e-book reader.

ETA: One American motel chain that has excellent lighting is Microtel.

Moo

[ 23. July 2013, 12:42: Message edited by: Moo ]

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