Ship of Fools: Saints’ iconography

Thread: Saints’ iconography Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Wm Dewy (# 16712) on :

On an out of town trip this weekend, we visited a religious gift shop. My wife noticed a picture of a nun with veil holding a cat, and wondered who the saint pictured might be. Often wrong but never in doubt, I suggested, “St Gertrude. Who else has a cat?” A label on the back of the picture said “St Claire.” I’m accustomed to seeing St Claire with a monstrance, but a cat? Does anybody know a story about St Claire’s cat? Or perhaps the picture was mis-labeled.

Thanks.

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

Cats symbolize the contemplative life. Because that's what cats are doing when they're sitting looking peaceful: being contemplative. Not plotting, no never...

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

According to here,

quote:
Like St. Francis, St. Clare loved animals as God’s fellow creatures and had a little cat of which she was particularly fond. St. Clare’s cat had an uncanny ability to sense when she needed something. Once when she was ill, her cat brought her a napkin before the sisters even realized she needed one.

An unusual attribute for Clare, since I think of the monstrance too, but probably one that parallels the iconography of St. Francis—him with his birds, her with the kitty, both tender, gentle and cute animals with holy-looking people. If I had to guess, I'd say that pictures with cats appeal to more people than pictures with monstrances, and, if you're painting icons, sell more. Lots of people collect pictures of cats and cat paraphernalia, might want an icon for their cat, etc. Plus, there's a long standing tradition of truly and horribly sentimental iconography of Franciscans that this can be considered a part of. There's no way this is anywhere near the worst of it—I've seen some gauzy, pastel Victorian monstrosities of which the less said, the better.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

Aaaaah. That's purrfect. I can think of some ladies I know buying such an ikon not for a devotion to St Clare, but because of the cat. I'm surprised this isn't more widely known.

Posted by ElaineC (# 12244) on :

Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.

That's nice, but I don't think the iconographer can have ever visited Norfolk or seen what people normally look like there.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Possibly so, but since when are icons supposed to be realistic?

We have a horrible little statue of St. Clare (the correct spelling, I think, BTW [Razz]

), along with an equally awful statue of St. Francis. The monstrance St. C. is holding looks more like some kind of dark lantern, as though she is about to go and commit a burglary. Where Father got them from, I know not, but I wish he'd take them back. They clutter up a window-sill in our Lady Chapel.......give me an icon instead of a statue any day.

Ian J.

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Possibly so, but since when are icons supposed to be realistic?

We have a horrible little statue of St. Clare (the correct spelling, I think, BTW ), along with an equally awful statue of St. Francis. The monstrance St. C. is holding looks more like some kind of dark lantern, as though she is about to go and commit a burglary.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

St. Martin de Porres is often portrayed with very cute animals- for good reason. He is the earliest proto-veterinarian I've heard of who regularly treated small, domestic animals like cats and dogs. There were farriers who treated horses (they were quite valuable), but nobody payed much attention to the small fry. St. Martin did.

Posted by The Scrumpmeister (# 5638) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice...

Let's not get carried away. I'll concede that it's certainly among the least horrific of the offerings by Robert Lentz but it still looks weird, the obvious element being what you pointed out.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice...
Let's not get carried away. I'll concede that it's certainly among the least horrific of the offerings by Robert Lentz but it still looks weird, the obvious element being what you pointed out.

Okay, I'm not always on board with paintings by Lentz. But
this image is one of my favorites ever. I know, I've posted this a zillion times. But that goat is way cool and it's what I feel like most of the time...

I'm Lyda*Rose and I'm a goat.

ETA: And this is the Lentz Julian of Norwich that I much prefer.

[ 01. March 2013, 00:19: Message edited by: Lyda*Rose ]

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

Oh, the hazelnut! I rather love that...

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Please note this is Protestant posting.

Please do not get carried away with Julian and a cat. This could be a simple monastic reference to a contemplative life not that she had a cat. An active life would be shown by a monkey.

If you want to know where I got this from, the cat and the monkey are still visible if you know where to look in the chapel at Iona Abbey representing the balanced life that involves both work and prayer.

Jengie

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
St. Martin de Porres is often portrayed with very cute animals- for good reason. He is the earliest proto-veterinarian I've heard of who regularly treated small, domestic animals like cats and dogs. There were farriers who treated horses (they were quite valuable), but nobody payed much attention to the small fry. St. Martin did.

If you can get your hands on a copy, read this book my late professor wrote on St. Martin. There's also a chapter on the prayer cards like the one you linked to in this book of his.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineC:
Julian if Norwich is ofter portrayed with a cat. This is one of my favourites.
That's nice...
Let's not get carried away. I'll concede that it's certainly among the least horrific of the offerings by Robert Lentz but it still looks weird, the obvious element being what you pointed out.

I prefer the hazelnut. It's really powerful, and that particular vision of St. Julian's really speaks to me.

RE: the one with the cat - I don't have a problem with the cat, but it just looks too much like a portrait to me. YMMV.

Posted by Inanna (# 538) on :

Apparently, the Ancrene Rule that Julian may well have followed allowed for the keeping of a cat, so as to reduce the mouse population in the anchorite's cell.

And, as should be obvious, I have a definite fondness for Julian with her cat [Smile]

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please do not get carried away with Julian and a cat. This could be a simple monastic reference to a contemplative life not that she had a cat. An active life would be shown by a monkey.

My Lent book is Fr. John-Julian Swanson OJN's The Complete Julian of Norwich. [Brewster, Massachusetts: Paraclete Press, 2009] Of the cat, he writes:

"Since the Ancrene Wisse forbids anchorites to have any animals except a cat, it has already become traditional hagiography to show Mother Julian with a cat (indeed, there is a pleasant children's book called Julian's Cat). Of course, the cat had a practical use in keeping down the mouse and rat population." (p. 42)

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
St. Martin de Porres is often portrayed with very cute animals- for good reason. He is the earliest proto-veterinarian I've heard of who regularly treated small, domestic animals like cats and dogs. There were farriers who treated horses (they were quite valuable), but nobody payed much attention to the small fry. St. Martin did.
If you can get your hands on a copy, read this book my late professor wrote on St. Martin. There's also a chapter on the prayer cards like the one you linked to in this book of his.

Thanks! They look like good suggestions.

Posted by Metapelagius (# 9453) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Please do not get carried away with Julian and a cat. This could be a simple monastic reference to a contemplative life not that she had a cat. An active life would be shown by a monkey.
My Lent book is Fr. John-Julian Swanson OJN's The Complete Julian of Norwich. [Brewster, Massachusetts: Paraclete Press, 2009] Of the cat, he writes:

"Since the Ancrene Wisse forbids anchorites to have any animals except a cat, it has already become traditional hagiography to show Mother Julian with a cat (indeed, there is a pleasant children's book called Julian's Cat). Of course, the cat had a practical use in keeping down the mouse and rat population." (p. 42)

There is evidence of a monk keeping a cat centuries before Julian - as the anonymous Irish 9th century monk of St Paul in Carinthia, who wrote a delightful poem about his cat Pangur -
Messe ocus Pangur bán. It would be interesting to know whether this was common practice, or a chance happening.

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