Ship of Fools: Oil Filled Candles

Thread: Oil Filled Candles Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

I'm fed up with cleaning wax off the acolyte candle sticks every week. I've seen these oil lamps that look like candles in other churches. Are they any good? How much oil do they use? Are they as good as they would seem, or do they have a whole new set of problems you don't have with wax candles?

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

We used to use oil candles on the altar, but replaced them a while back with real wax candles. For some reason, one of the oil candles would never burn properly, no matter how much we tinkered with the wick/checked the oil level etc. We took it as A Sign From Heaven that we should revert to wax, as laid down by Our Lord And His Blessed Mother.

(And lamp oil seems rather pricey, anyway).

A neighbouring church uses oil candles on the acolytes' torches, and I must say that they look quite realistic. When I visited the church recently, however, one of the acolytes was having a job to keep her candle alight........

Personally, despite my OCD, I don't really mind the candles looking untidy (though I don't like bits of wax being trodden into the sacristy floor).

Ian J.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

If you do use oil candles, you must instantly ban all wax tapers from your church premises. If a drop of wax falls on the breathing hole at the top of the candle, the candle won't work, and they are a nightmare to clean.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Ours work fine. As previous posters suggest, you have to control the wick length and make sure the breathing vent is clear (or you'll get a partial vacuum).

Lamp oil is deodorised kerosene. You can buy it as such.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

We have many lots of oil candles. Refilling can get tedious, as there are 32 to do every week plus the 6 in the sanctuary are done on a Sunday afternoon. In Advent there were a further 18 in the nave* which got lit and filled a lot. But they don't drip and we have few burning problems. Difficulty staying alight implies it needs filling. Topping up weekly avoids that. We get through about 1 500ml bottle's worth a week, but we generally buy 5l bottles and then fill a 500ml bottle from that. Though the spouts having broken were currently on a crate of 12. We also have oil filled lighter for them.

Carys

If they were wax we'd be forever replacing them and having issues with muttering wax.

*It should have been 24 but one candle vanished in November so we couldn't use that 3 candle candlabrum or its pair.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

Here's what we use at the cathedral where I work. The wicks made by Kerry pretty much never need changing. I think that's some kind of miracle like the widow with her jar of oil or something. We use waxed tapers to light them (our High Altar candles are high indeed), and we don't have any problems. The oil candles have a little canister (shown on that website) that you fill with oil, and drop into the candle, and I think the breathing hole must be on the side of the cap or something. The cap, which screws/unscrews, holds the wick which almost never needs adjusting.

We also use lots of real candles (of the 51% beeswax variety), but we use oil for our gigantic high altar candles and for the torch set used by the boy's school (and child acolytes when they serve on Sundays). Very practical!

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

Wicks draw up the fuel, but it's the fuel that burns. With wax candles, as the tip of the wick gets too far from the melted wax, it burns down, whereas if you keep an oil filled candle filled up, the wick won't burn away. You can see this with tea lights, if you feed in more was, the candle will carry on burning, but if you blow one out not long before it burns out, let the wax set and then try and delight it, the wick will runaway before it can melt enough wax to get going properly. Tipping in a drop of molten wax can solve this if you don't drown the wick.

Carys (who has possibly experimented with candles more than is good for her)

Posted by PaulBC (# 13712) on :

I think wax candles & tapers are better. Oil candles sound like an accident looking for a place to happen . We use wax at my place and it works nicely. O.K. we need to watch where the wax goes say Christmas eve ! Also don't be afraid to call on someone with bith experience & hieght to help light over tall candles. [Votive]

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

Now, I would say wax candles are an accident waiting to happen, not oil candles.

As pointed out in the OP, with wax candles you can get wax in places you would not want wax to get into.

Also, depending on the type of wax you use some of them can get a little deformed in hot climates.

I know of at least one case where people had thought they had snuffed out a wax candle only to have it re ignite after the service when no one was around. The church burned down.

On the other hand while an oil candle may re ignite it will only burn the oil that is left in the reservoir. They do not deform in heat. They will not leave wax on surfaces.

We use oil candles. They have been around since before the time of Jesus (remember the women who did not have enough oil to go into a wedding celebration).

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
Wicks draw up the fuel, but it's the fuel that burns. With wax candles, as the tip of the wick gets too far from the melted wax, it burns down, whereas if you keep an oil filled candle filled up, the wick won't burn away. You can see this with tea lights, if you feed in more was, the candle will carry on burning, but if you blow one out not long before it burns out, let the wax set and then try and delight it, the wick will runaway before it can melt enough wax to get going properly. Tipping in a drop of molten wax can solve this if you don't drown the wick.

Carys (who has possibly experimented with candles more than is good for her)

I knew it was something to do with that, and I suspect the company says it lasts "1,000 burns" just because they can't legally promise it'll last basically forever. I'm pretty sure we've been using the same wicks at least the 7-1/2 years I've worked here, and they don't seem to be getting any shorter.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
We use oil candles. They have been around since before the time of Jesus (remember the women who did not have enough oil to go into a wedding celebration).

Wow, your church has the foolish virgins' oil lamps? I guess that's not as much a thing to brag about as if they were the wise virgins' oil lamps. [Razz]

Seriously, though, I agree that the oil candles are pretty darn safe. Obviously sensible precautions are called for.

Posted by anon four (# 15938) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
let the wax set and then try and delight it,

This has certainly delighted me [Smile]

Posted by Arch Anglo Catholic (# 15181) on :

One other thing to bear in mind if I might be so bold, is draughts! Ancient, Anglican churches are bedevilled with gaps through which wind blows, often leading to one candle guttering or burning much faster than another and suddenly burning down or causing wax runs.

Oil candles, in my experience, prevent this problem.

That's my twopennyworth anyway!

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I can't place it, but I've a clear recollection of a decision of an ecclesiastical court 20-30 years ago that one should not give a faculty for electric bulbs that look like candles. This was on the grounds that God should not be worshipped with a fake. There was nothing wrong with an electric bulb but it should not pretend to be a candle. A candle should look like a candle, and a bulb like a bulb.

If my memory is right, an oil lamp should look like a lamp with oil in it, and not be disguised as a candle. There is plenty of precedent for ecclesiastical lamps.

Incidentally, do oil lamps disguised as candles run on olive oil or some sort of petroleum based lamp oil? What is Kerry's Liquid Church Candle Fuel made of?

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Incidentally, do oil lamps disguised as candles run on olive oil or some sort of petroleum based lamp oil? What is Kerry's Liquid Church Candle Fuel made of?

Petroleum.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
One other thing to bear in mind if I might be so bold, is draughts! Ancient, Anglican churches are bedevilled with gaps through which wind blows, often leading to one candle guttering or burning much faster than another and suddenly burning down or causing wax runs.

This is the main reason why our acolyte candle sticks need so much cleaning. Fixing the draught excluder on the sacristy door might help somewhat too.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

Then there's the kiddies that can't resist playing with the melted wax in the middle of the service.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

In my verging days I not only to change the oil for the candles (which were many) but also had to regularly clean the candles from the black marks left by the oil.

I didn't like messing about with oil. At least with wax candles you can see how much is left, rather than having to lift up the oil container of every bloody candle in the church each week.

I preferred cleaning after wax. I used to spray WD40 on the votes candle trays and it made cleaning a treat.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

We have a couple of very large oil candles, one in the center of the candlestand in the center of the nave, and then one used by the deacon. I can't remember if there are any used by altar servers in the processions.

And then a lot of wax candles. Both those used in the processions, and those are available at the back of the church for people to use for their own devotions -- they place them in candle stands by the festal icon, lady icon, Jesus icon, or by the "tomb" (a place for remembering the dead - basically a table with a sandbox on top overseen by a crucifixion icon).

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Then there's the kiddies that can't resist playing with the melted wax in the middle of the service.

Kiddies? Some of those kiddies have been acolyting since before you were born, Squire.

Personally, I prefer wax candles. One of my churches prefers oil ones. They have to do the filling and the clean-up, so they get to choose.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

We've got all wax candles and no oil-filled ones.

One problem with wax candles has been solved: before we had air-conditioning, when the weather was very hot there were times when the altar candles would get so soft they would bend sideways like candy canes, probably because of the weight of the brass followers. Thanks to benefactress "St. Geraldine," we've now got meat-locker, see-your-breath coolness in summertime.

A different problem is the one that happens on windy Lenten Fridays during Stations of the Cross. Several of the stations are near drafty stained-glass windows, and the drafts, even if not strong enough to blow the acolytes' candles out completely, will often splatter wax all over the acolytes' surplices (and sometimes hands).

Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :

Why not use dripless candles? Our chapel uses Liljeholmens candles which do not drip, so long as they are not in a draught.

[ 04. March 2013, 18:09: Message edited by: Dal Segno ]

Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :

We have had oil candles on the altar for over 8 years, no problems at all. We fill them about every two weeks. We like them so much we bought a set of Advent ones this year. So nice to not worry about the wax candles burning down and setting the greens on fire.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
One other thing to bear in mind if I might be so bold, is draughts! Ancient, Anglican churches are bedevilled with gaps through which wind blows, often leading to one candle guttering or burning much faster than another and suddenly burning down or causing wax runs.

Oil candles, in my experience, prevent this problem.

That's my twopennyworth anyway!

Not even just in old churches, either. Where I work, the building was begun in the 1930s, halted during the Depression, and picked up again and completed in the 1960s. But the heating system blows air in ways that mess with our wax candles. In the side chapel, when we place candles on the retable, one side burns down faster than the others. We used to have these awful candelabras in the cathedral apse, and the drafts would not only cause the candles to burn unevenly, but would get wax everywhere, especially in winter. I remember the candelabra on one side was always messier and had significantly shorter candles in it. Didn't help that the candelabra never quite held the candles straight upright.

Curiously, though - and I imagine this can only be due to some kind of draft somewhere - there's an odd thing that sometimes happens with the oil candles at the high altar. They're pavement candles, and there are four of them - one at each corner of the altar (which is in the crossing). The one on the (geographical) northwest corner is often difficult to light - sometimes as you try to light it, it puts out the taper and you have to go re-light that (which annoys me because it's usually the first candle I light). But we rotate the canisters (and hence the wicks) among the four candles - it's easier to fill them that way. We keep 5 canisters, and as you climb the ladder, you already have a full one in hand, remove the old one and drop in the full one, then go refill that canister and take it, with the ladder, to the next candle. So it's the location of that candle, and not anything about the candle itself, that must be the issue. Luckily, it doesn't happen too terribly often.

Drafts are an issue, though - and not just from the heating system. I think it's 'cause our building is large, and on a hill, and no building is air-tight (one hopes), and we're relatively near the ocean. Plus the ceiling is unfinished. It would be a vaulted ceiling, but instead it just has the arches in place and is open to catwalks above. Those catwalks are connected to the towers, so air might also come in from there.

Come to think of it, with all that open space and potential for draftiness, it's no wonder we have oil candles at such a potentially drafty part of the church! Especially since we use such gigantic candles. I hate to think of the mess if they were wax!

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
We've got all wax candles and no oil-filled ones.

One problem with wax candles has been solved: before we had air-conditioning, when the weather was very hot there were times when the altar candles would get so soft they would bend sideways like candy canes, probably because of the weight of the brass followers. Thanks to benefactress "St. Geraldine," we've now got meat-locker, see-your-breath coolness in summertime.

A different problem is the one that happens on windy Lenten Fridays during Stations of the Cross. Several of the stations are near drafty stained-glass windows, and the drafts, even if not strong enough to blow the acolytes' candles out completely, will often splatter wax all over the acolytes' surplices (and sometimes hands).

You can get glass shields - I don't know what they're called, but they're just cylinders open on both ends that protect the candle from breezes. Similar to a "chimney" on an oil lantern. Not knowing what they're called seems to be stymieing my attempts to google them. We don't use them where I work, but I know a church that does - they also process outside (around the block at Corpus Christi), so that might be why they have them in the first place.

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

If your acolytes are spilling wax on their robes I would stick with that and learn to cope with the annoyance. If you switch to lamp oil candles, you'll be sending them to A&E to scrape hardened, burnt nylon out of their epidermis.

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
You can get glass shields - I don't know what they're called, but they're just cylinders open on both ends that protect the candle from breezes. Similar to a "chimney" on an oil lantern. Not knowing what they're called seems to be stymieing my attempts to google them. We don't use them where I work, but I know a church that does - they also process outside (around the block at Corpus Christi), so that might be why they have them in the first place.

Oo...good point. Our torchbearers use these at Solemn Mass when they stand/kneel at the Communion rail during the Canon of the Mass, to help keep wax from messing up the newish kneeling-cushions. I never thought of finding out whether the followers with the little hooks on them to hold the glass chimneys would work just as well on our acolytes' candles during Stations. Thanks!

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

We'vwe recently been advised to change from oil to beeswax. It's the impact on the environment, because of the chemicals that the oil candles send zooming into the air. Our "green" advisor asked us to look at the chemical make up of the fuel for the oil candles, and when we did we turned green (ha, ha) to think of what we were pouring into the atmosphere -- admittedly in small quantities as we're only talking two candles.

John

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
We'vwe recently been advised to change from oil to beeswax. It's the impact on the environment, because of the chemicals that the oil candles send zooming into the air. Our "green" advisor asked us to look at the chemical make up of the fuel for the oil candles, and when we did we turned green (ha, ha) to think of what we were pouring into the atmosphere -- admittedly in small quantities as we're only talking two candles.

John

Has anyone ever tried anything like this in oil candles? I wonder if it can be used with the Kerry wicks. Over on amazon, the reviews conflict: one guy says it smells nice, another that the smell is "interesting," if "not bad;" and another says the smell is so revolting it will clear a room.

Posted by Edgeman (# 12867) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Arch Anglo Catholic:
One other thing to bear in mind if I might be so bold, is draughts! Ancient, Anglican churches are bedevilled with gaps through which wind blows, often leading to one candle guttering or burning much faster than another and suddenly burning down or causing wax runs.

Oil candles, in my experience, prevent this problem.

That's my twopennyworth anyway!

That was the cause for my parish switching to oil. The church is 150 years old, and there are drafts everywhere.There are usually 6-10 candlesticks on the high altar, and on important days when they're all lit, we used to have 6-10 different heights of candles, and wax splattered on the reredos, the altar cloth, occasionally on the poor priest who happened to be at the altar. We also had problems with the sunlight from one of the windows discoloring the candles on one side so that one side was darker than the other.

That was 8 years ago though. Even now, some days, one can see the drafts blowing out the oil candles or making them hard to light. Right now, the only real candles that get used are for Holy week. There are four 7-branched candelabra that go at the altar of repose, and those are a nightmare enough to persuade anyone to use oil.

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
If your acolytes are spilling wax on their robes I would stick with that and learn to cope with the annoyance. If you switch to lamp oil candles, you'll be sending them to A&E to scrape hardened, burnt nylon out of their epidermis.

But isn't the oil inside the lamp, so only the bit that's actually burning comes out? Or is it like a wax candle where you have a pool of flammable liquid on the top waiting for a jolt to spill it?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
If you do use oil candles, you must instantly ban all wax tapers from your church premises. If a drop of wax falls on the breathing hole at the top of the candle, the candle won't work, and they are a nightmare to clean.

BUT they (torches held by acolytes) have to be lit from the paschal candle during the Easter Vigil. THEN used to pass on to individual wax candles.

We have managed this for some 4 years, since we started using them. But is there an elegant solution?

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
If you do use oil candles, you must instantly ban all wax tapers from your church premises. If a drop of wax falls on the breathing hole at the top of the candle, the candle won't work, and they are a nightmare to clean.
BUT they (torches held by acolytes) have to be lit from the paschal candle during the Easter Vigil. THEN used to pass on to individual wax candles.

We have managed this for some 4 years, since we started using them. But is there an elegant solution?

Is there any reason why the acolytes' candles should be lit immediately from the paschal candle? Why not use a taper?

Though if you have the candle only half-full, you can tilt it enough to get the wick into the flame without spilling oil everywhere.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
I'm fed up with cleaning wax off the acolyte candle sticks every week. I've seen these oil lamps that look like candles in other churches. Are they any good? How much oil do they use? Are they as good as they would seem, or do they have a whole new set of problems you don't have with wax candles?

Better to beat the acolytes till they stop spilling wax.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
If you do use oil candles, you must instantly ban all wax tapers from your church premises. If a drop of wax falls on the breathing hole at the top of the candle, the candle won't work, and they are a nightmare to clean.
BUT they (torches held by acolytes) have to be lit from the paschal candle during the Easter Vigil. THEN used to pass on to individual wax candles.

We have managed this for some 4 years, since we started using them. But is there an elegant solution?
Is there any reason why the acolytes' candles should be lit immediately from the paschal candle? Why not use a taper?

Though if you have the candle only half-full, you can tilt it enough to get the wick into the flame without spilling oil everywhere.

Not a wax taper, presumably. or the same problem would apply.

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :

what you need is one of these. The picture's not very clear, but it's a mini oil "candle" mounted on a 3ft pole. with a little ingenuity, a snuffer can be added, like a conventional taper/snuffer.

We have a mixture of candles and "candles"; both have their maintenance foibles. The two flames are very different visually, though.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

It looks a bit like a ..... maybe better not to go there.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I agree with Leo.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

Talking of draughtscandal wax candles, first compline of Lent, 1 candle out of 30 (6 x 5 candle candelabra) guttered aside burnt far fairer than the others . Second compline I joined it 2 inches west and no problem.

Carys

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