Ship of Fools: Combining Palm Sunday and Holy Week start

Thread: Combining Palm Sunday and Holy Week start Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by IconiumBound (# 754) on :

Yesterday (Palm Sunday) our parish did an unusual twist to the awkward blending of these two themes that I found very commendable.

The procession (All Glory Laud and Honor)into the church building from an introductory brief hymn and prayer in the parish hall has been a regular part of the service. The service was abbreviated by only one OT reading and a brief sermon.

Following the end of the Communion the Gospel reading of Jesus' trial and crucifixion with several readers taking part was then read. The priest announced, "Our Holy Week observance has begun." response: "Thanks be to God", The congregation proceeded out in silence.

Has any shipmate done something similar?

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :

I suppose Holy Week really starts at Saturday Evening Prayer the day before Palm Sunday. Therefore the bitter-sweet nature of Palm Sunday (called by some also The Sunday of the Passion) is an intregal part of Holy Week.

In the church I attended there was the Gospel of the Palms and procession to All Glory Laud and Honour. The gospel reading at the eucharist following the procession was the full Passion Narrative (Luke). There was no sermon as the liturgy was quite lengthy, and the cleric introducing the service explained that the service itself, and the magnificent gospel readings, were so dramatic and a sermon in themselves, after which any human construct would be an anti-climax.

The colour was red.

Other Hymns included

Ride on Ride on in Majesty

Who is this with Garments Gory?

O Sacred Head Surrounded

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by IconiumBound:
Yesterday (Palm Sunday) our parish did an unusual twist to the awkward blending of these two themes that I found very commendable.

...

Has any shipmate done something similar?

Yes. As Nonconformists (albeit fairly traditional ones) we are not bound by any specific liturgy or lectionary and so can shape the service as we like.

The problem is that many folk only come to church on Sundays, so there would be a danger of jumping straight from Palm Sunday to the Resurrection. On the other hand I feel that to focus all (or most of) the Palm Sunday service on the Passion narrative is "getting ahead of oneself" and diminishes the story of the Entry into Jerusalem.

So I like the idea of starting the Palm Sunday service joyfully, then moving into the Passion later in the service.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

My church finished the service with the hymn "Ride on, ride on in majesty". All very Palm Sunday-ish, but the amusing thing was the note that follows the hymn in the NEH: "the theme of the Eucharist is that of the Passion" (or very similar words). For me, this approach is the better one. The great drama of the day is the transition from "Hosanna" to "Crucify".

To have the entire service about the entry into Jerusalem, with the entire church bedecked with palms, is wrong, in my view.

The version noted by the OP, with the Passion story coming after communion, is an improvement in some ways but it does disrupt the essential shape of the Eucharist. I would also suggest that it still gives too much prominence to the entry.

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

I am entirely out of step here.

I devoted Palm Sunday to the Palm Sunday story. The Passion element was introduced in the final hymn "My song is love unknown".

Palm Sunday celebrates Jesus' entry as King following Zechariah's prophecy which I believe Jesus deliberately enacted.

I know that Christ the King is celebrated much later in the year but Palm Sunday is an excellent opportunity to develop the nature of His kingship.

So I make no apologies. We shall deal with the Last Supper on Thursday; the Crucifixion on Friday and Resurrection on Sunday. Seems entirely right and logical to me.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

I make no criticism of those from traditions other than my own, but I get irritated by fellow-Anglicans who seem incapable of using the liturgy we are given and perpetually re-inventing the wheel. Whether it is making unilateral changes to the lectionary, re-writing eucharistic prayers, or deciding that the Sunday before Easter (aka Palm, aka Passion) ought to be about one thing or the other, not both. If you are being loyal to the BCP (1662) tradition it's the palms that get sidelined; the more ancient tradition, revived in Common Worship, is that the hosannas give way to 'Crucify'. So it's both/and, or at least, the Passion with a nod to the triumphal entry. Not happy-clappy flag-waving at the expense of the cross.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I make no criticism of those from traditions other than my own, but I get irritated by fellow-Anglicans who seem incapable of using the liturgy we are given and perpetually re-inventing the wheel. Whether it is making unilateral changes to the lectionary, re-writing eucharistic prayers, or deciding that the Sunday before Easter (aka Palm, aka Passion) ought to be about one thing or the other, not both. If you are being loyal to the BCP (1662) tradition it's the palms that get sidelined; the more ancient tradition, revived in Common Worship, is that the hosannas give way to 'Crucify'. So it's both/and, or at least, the Passion with a nod to the triumphal entry. Not happy-clappy flag-waving at the expense of the cross.

Thank you!

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
I am entirely out of step here.

I devoted Palm Sunday to the Palm Sunday story. The Passion element was introduced in the final hymn "My song is love unknown".

Palm Sunday celebrates Jesus' entry as King following Zechariah's prophecy which I believe Jesus deliberately enacted.

I know that Christ the King is celebrated much later in the year but Palm Sunday is an excellent opportunity to develop the nature of His kingship.

So I make no apologies. We shall deal with the Last Supper on Thursday; the Crucifixion on Friday and Resurrection on Sunday. Seems entirely right and logical to me.

As I said on another Palm Sunday thread: To concentrate on the Palm theme and omit the Passion is to be a 'happy clappy' service which seeks to avoid the cost of following this man on a donkey.

The palm liturgy, followed by the passion liturgy, is an ancient at the 4th century when a Spanish nun called Egeria witnessed it in Jerusalem.

All the holy Week liturgies proclaim the whole story but with different emphases - so even the stark Good Friday liturgy mentions the resurrection during the veneration of the cross.

To quote myself in a session I often do as an introduction to Holy Week: Amongst the themes this service may stimulate are the welcoming of Christ into our lives yet the surprising turn of events the journey of faith can experience, the way humans have of welcoming charismatic people and then rejecting them and their demands, the way people can be popular, before they had to make tough decisions at work and make enemies. It can have a green dimension: the triumphal entry into Jerusalem can mark the rise of a popular movement for recycling, for supporting Greenpeace. The cleansing of the temple can mark the growing realisation that personal acts of recycling are not enough; global capitalism and market forces need to be tackled. The cleansing of the temple can also represent the cleansing and purging of one's own mind of mixed motives.

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I make no criticism of those from traditions other than my own, but I get irritated by fellow-Anglicans who seem incapable of using the liturgy we are given and perpetually re-inventing the wheel. Whether it is making unilateral changes to the lectionary, re-writing eucharistic prayers, or deciding that the Sunday before Easter (aka Palm, aka Passion) ought to be about one thing or the other, not both. If you are being loyal to the BCP (1662) tradition it's the palms that get sidelined; the more ancient tradition, revived in Common Worship, is that the hosannas give way to 'Crucify'. So it's both/and, or at least, the Passion with a nod to the triumphal entry. Not happy-clappy flag-waving at the expense of the cross.

Yes.

Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :

Shamri posted

quote:
I am entirely out of step here.

I devoted Palm Sunday to the Palm Sunday story. The Passion element was introduced in the final hymn "My song is love unknown".

Palm Sunday celebrates Jesus' entry as King following Zechariah's prophecy which I believe Jesus deliberately enacted.

I know that Christ the King is celebrated much later in the year but Palm Sunday is an excellent opportunity to develop the nature of His kingship.

So I make no apologies. We shall deal with the Last Supper on Thursday; the Crucifixion on Friday and Resurrection on Sunday. Seems entirely right and logical to me.

I am out of step with you. It has always seems strange to me to do the Passion readings on Palm Sunday and then again on Good Friday. I would like it your way better.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

But they are DIFFERENT Passsion readings. Matthew, Mark or Luke for Sunday, John for Friday.

And if you are Anglican, the default BCP readings are:

Sunday: Matthew (and no mention of palms)
Monday/Tuesday: Mark
Wednesday/Thursday Luke
Friday: John

Posted by PaulBC (# 13712) on :

In my parish we started with the Palm procession and associated Gospel then through to the Passion Gospel . Enter with "Ride On" Exit in silence .It worked [Votive]

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

Leo (quote)

"As I said on another Palm Sunday thread: To concentrate on the Palm theme and omit the Passion is to be a 'happy clappy' service which seeks to avoid the cost of following this man on a donkey."

Bollocks. There was nothing happy clappy about the service.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

I have conducted Passion rites, following the British Lent Holy Week and Easter format, since the late '80s. It's not perfect, but one way around the disconnect that I have found to be useful is seeing the Liturgy of the Palms as a reenactment of human failure, a representation of the human propensity to look for the Christ in the neon-lit histrionics rather than the ugliness of suffering. I like Shamwari's model, above, for I think that too underscores this radical re-orientation or recalibration during the first (or second if the previous Evening Prayer is included) liturgy of our Holiest of weeks.

This week I haven't been able to engage as I had to fly to a remote community 1000 kms away to bury a young boy who joined the statistically frightening ranks of Indigenous suicides. That too in a sense took me into a pace of darkness and suffering, but the change of pace has been difficult. The ritual wailing of the community will reverberate in my ears (at least) until I (or actually Kuruman) whisper-sings the words of exultet on Sunday pre-dawn

It's a tough week in our home for a whole lot of reasons.

[ 25. March 2013, 20:35: Message edited by: Zappa ]

Posted by LA Dave (# 1397) on :

Our noon Mass generally ends with a fairly flamboyant organ voluntary, which always is greeted by applause. Yesterday, the congregation and choir sang a single verse of "O Sacred Head Surrounded" and then quietly left.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I make no criticism of those from traditions other than my own, but I get irritated by fellow-Anglicans who seem incapable of using the liturgy we are given and perpetually re-inventing the wheel. Whether it is making unilateral changes to the lectionary, re-writing eucharistic prayers, or deciding that the Sunday before Easter (aka Palm, aka Passion) ought to be about one thing or the other, not both.

Hear, hear.

Posted by Gildas (# 525) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
But they are DIFFERENT Passsion readings. Matthew, Mark or Luke for Sunday, John for Friday.

And if you are Anglican, the default BCP readings are:

Sunday: Matthew (and no mention of palms)
Monday/Tuesday: Mark
Wednesday/Thursday Luke
Friday: John

But not in Comic Worship or the Roman Missal. (Or probably the Methodist Worship Book as a click on Shamwari's profile indicates that he is a Methodist and therefore not likely to be using the BCP.) My own preference would be for A CW Eucharist with Palm Gospel and Blessing of Palms, Stop traffic with procession singing All Glory Laud and Honour (or We Have A King Who Rides On A Donkey [Biased]

), Arrive in church, lose Donkey, Collect, Passion Gospel and on with the Mass. But it's hardly beyond the wit of humankind to imagine a pattern that starts from the comparative high point of Palm Sunday and moves through the week to the horrors of Good Friday. It works as a narrative, which is what we are telling here, are we not?

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

For once, we didn't have the Passion Narrative. Instead, there was a play about the Donkey.

Well, it made a change.

Posted by SyNoddy (# 17009) on :

Well we traditionally hold our annual parochial church meeting (a.g.m.) straight after our Palm Sunday communion service at which we have had a procession, palms and dramatic gospel reading of the Passion. Non of your leaving in silence for us. Talk about from the sublime to the ridiculous. It's straight into electing wardens and receiving the accounts!

Posted by angelicum (# 13515) on :

Isn't the title of the Feast we celebrate (now) called "Palm Sunday of the Passion of the Lord" in the Roman Missal, and in the RCL it's called "Sunday of the Passion: Palm Sunday"?

The introductory address by the celebrant in the Roman Missal explains the dual nature of this feast clearly:

"Today we gather together to herald with the whole Church the beginning of the celebration of our Lord’s Paschal Mystery, that is to say, of his Passion and Resurrection. For it was to accomplish this mystery that he entered his own city of Jerusalem."

It seems a Western Christian phenomenon that we restrict ourselves to celebrating just one aspect of an event in salvation history on a particular feast - perhaps due in part to the current practice of transferring feasts.

The ancient liturgies of the Church saw no such compulsion - even today, the Eastern churches are able to layer and celebrate multiple events in salvation history at a single liturgy. I'm thinking here of the Eastern practice of celebrating a Divine Liturgy for Annunciation even if it also happens to fall on Good Friday.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gildas:
But it's hardly beyond the wit of humankind to imagine a pattern that starts from the comparative high point of Palm Sunday and moves through the week to the horrors of Good Friday. It works as a narrative, which is what we are telling here, are we not?

Well, in an ideal world, perhaps. But I have yet to discover a church where the same congregation, in the same numbers, gathers daily in Holy Week. Indeed, on Good Friday it's often the case that generally faithful and regular worshippers fail to show up. And in Britain we haven't got the excuse that Good Friday is a working day.
In any case, Holy Week is not a re-enactment of historical events, it's a participation in the Mystery. That is more subtle than a chronological re-telling allows.

Posted by Quam Dilecta (# 12541) on :

Following the 1950's reform of the Holy Week liturgies, my parish used red vestments for the blessing of the palms and procession, and then switched to violet for the Mass, which included the passion narrative from Luke. Yes, the switch requires a bit of ingenuity, but it does underscore the change of mood between the triumphal entry and the crucifixion.

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

Someone was telling me that he had experienced this and I was confused, because it seems odd to revert to purple for the Mass when to me the switch to red is about the passion, marking a move from Lent.* Though given we still talk about Lent 5 as Passion Sunday, there would be a case for going red then surely?

Carys

*Actually he got confused at this point as I said something about 'passion red', but he heard 'passion read' and wondered what the reading of the passion Gospel had to do with the colour!

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :

TEC's 1979 heavy emphasis on Palm Sunday being Passion Sunday weakens this time of year. The 1928 called the Sunday before Palm Sunday "Passion Sunday" and the current provisions in the CofE call Lent 5 onward Passiontide.

This is a great pastoral and liturgical provision. Also, Advent and Easter are similarly divided.

There are different prefaces and other propers which enrich this time of year. Ash Wednesday to Saturday of Lent 4 are introspective, The last two weeks are all about Jesus.

At one time, TEC people knew the hymns of the passion. By, for all practical purposes limiting them to Palm Sunday, the great hymns of the Passion have been forgotten. In my neck of the woods, it's hard to find any musician who is familiar with anything other than 79/82, so the glories of Sing my tongue, The Royal Banners, Ah, Holy Jesus, etc. go unsung and there is no chance to sing them.

Xmas gets 12 days. Lent has many almost unsinkable hymns, Passiontide is unknown in MOTR TEC anymore.

I think it would be great to extent Passiontide back a week, and let Palm Sunday be the start of Holy Week, but the 2nd Sunday of Passiontide.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Holy Week is not a re-enactment of historical events, it's a participation in the Mystery. That is more subtle than a chronological re-telling allows.

Indeed.

quote:
"Unitive" piety approaches the Easter mystery as a single and wholesome affair in which the faithful gather to celebrate the death and resurrection in one liturgy, through the night. …….there is no need to "histori¬cize" but rather in light, word, water, and bread and wine, to pass from death to life with Christ....there is no "re-enactment" of the events lead¬ing up to the crucifixion, nor the crucifixion itself. There are various "rememorative" services in the preceding days of the "Great Week," but no one acts parts in the play. The liturgy is allowed to find its own ambience through context of scripture reading, geographical association, and continuity. Finally, on Palm Sunday, the faithful walk down the Mount of Olives, but there is no donkey.”

Jerusalem Revisited: The Liturgical Meaning of Holy Week – K. Stevenson (Pastoral Press) 1988 p. 9

quote:
For those of us who are tempted to look somewhat episodically at the central events of salvation, here is one more reminder that we are not watching a television series, but growing into a great and wonderful mystery

ibid p. 37

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Leo (quote)

"As I said on another Palm Sunday thread: To concentrate on the Palm theme and omit the Passion is to be a 'happy clappy' service which seeks to avoid the cost of following this man on a donkey."

Bollocks. There was nothing happy clappy about the service.

Maybe not in the charismatic sense. But what's the point of a palm cross without the real cross?

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Quam Dilecta:
Following the 1950's reform of the Holy Week liturgies, my parish used red vestments for the blessing of the palms and procession, and then switched to violet for the Mass, which included the passion narrative from Luke. Yes, the switch requires a bit of ingenuity, but it does underscore the change of mood between the triumphal entry and the crucifixion.

St Matthew for us, but otherwise, that's also what we did.

With regard to red or violet, I prefer the old Missal's color scheme myself. So Palm Sunday begins in red and ends in violet, Maundy Thursday will be white with violet for the stripping of the altar, Good Friday will be black, and Holy Saturday will be violet changing to white.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

Here we do the Palm liturgy before the Eucharist proper with its Gospel, then the Communion service with the Passion from St Matthew. I prefer to use a dark red set of vestments for Passiontide. The hymns move from the Palm Sunday favourites - All Glory, Laud, and Honour and Ride one, ride on in majesty - to more Passiontide fare - When I survey the wondrous cross, and Glory be to Jesus. It is a bit rough and ready but it works.

PD

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Something that struck me yesterday when watching a TV programme about art in the Low Countries: In Van Eyck’s Ghent altarpiece, people entering heaven carry palms but they cannot get in without passing through the death of Christ.

So the symbolism of carrying palms and processing into the symbolic Jerusalem is not complete without the passion.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Whether it is making unilateral changes to the lectionary, re-writing eucharistic prayers, or deciding that the Sunday before Easter (aka Palm, aka Passion) ought to be about one thing or the other, not both.

The priest at a church I used so sing in decided once that the Evensong of Palm Sunday should be about remembering those who have died, and therefore relatives of people who had died recently were invited to church and names were read out. I muttered "that should happen in November". Still, we had more people than normal and they seemed to like it. But still.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

I have been thinking about this for weeks, now. My current line of thinking is thus:

Lent 5 / Palm Sunday (Passiontide beginning immediately thereafer)
Lent 6 / Passion Sunday (Matthew, Mark, or Luke)

Of course this is purely hypothetical, in the event that the Lectionary Lairds allow me unchecked dominion in a future ecumenical lectionary.

[ 13. April 2013, 18:13: Message edited by: Olaf ]

Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on :

So Passion Sunday (Lent 5) has been moved to overlap with Palm Sunday (Lent 6) since I used to be a churchgoer. Another good reason.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

We uncombined them this year. It seemed to work. Everyone - well all of the few who notices such things - still calls the Sunday before Palm Sunday "Passion Sunday" anyway.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
So Passion Sunday (Lent 5) has been moved to overlap with Palm Sunday (Lent 6) since I used to be a churchgoer. Another good reason.

Not really. Lent V is called "Passion Sunday" because it's the beginning of Passiontide. I am not familiar with any Christian tradition in which the Passion narratives were read before Lent VI.

Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on :

But I get the impression that Lent 5 is no longer called "Passion Sunday", and that that name has been transferred as a secondary name to Lent 6 - (still "Palm Sunday").

But what do I know? I was thrown out of the CofE 33 years ago (for divorce and remarriage - our stable and exclusive marriage of a third of of century being, of course, regarded as "living in sin").

That was irrelevant. Sorry. But my attachment, now detachment, is to a 1662 order of service - not that the BCP uses the labels "Passion", "Palm" (or "Low").

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