Ship of Fools: "Traditional texts" Common Worship

Thread: "Traditional texts" Common Worship Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Indifferently (# 17517) on :

http://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/principal-services/holy-communion/notes.aspx

"In addition to the places where they are printed in the service, traditional versions of texts may be used."

Does anyone have any experience of CW Order One in Traditional Language? Does the above direction give leeway on what version of the text is used? For example, example would the invitation to confession be allowed in the 1662 form?

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

The traditional version of the General Confession is allowed, but very few places would both with it nowadays. In recent years I have only come across the traditional version of the GC at 1662 (actually 'Green Book') Communion services.

I tend to find there is little tendancy to mix BCP, CW Trad Lang, and CW Mod Lang resources except for the Lectionary where one gets lumbered with the new lectionary in what is otherwise a BCP service. That said, you do occasionally get BCP lections at a CW-TL service of HC.

PD

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
http://www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/principal-services/holy-communion/notes.aspx

"In addition to the places where they are printed in the service, traditional versions of texts may be used."

Does anyone have any experience of CW Order One in Traditional Language? Does the above direction give leeway on what version of the text is used? For example, example would the invitation to confession be allowed in the 1662 form?

All Saints Margaret Street, St Paul's Knightsbridge and St Mary Abbot, Kensington all use CW Order 1 in Traditional Language, and think the confession varies at each seasonally.

Posted by Indifferently (# 17517) on :

I want my parish to stop using the 1662 Communion liturgy because the structure really bugs me.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

The 'traditional texts' mentioned in the OP are usually taken to apply to the music - so you can use Latin or ye olde English for Palestrina, Darke in F or whatever.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
I want my parish to stop using the 1662 Communion liturgy because the structure really bugs me.

It may help to redcue the 'bug' factor if you approach 1662 on its own terms with its own internal coherence, rather than as a defective Dix-ian rite.

Dix didn't really 'get' Cranmer's liturgy and his Shape of the Liturgy is theologically astray in its understanding of it.

Depending on your circumstances, you may find your parish priest more sympathetic to your views than many members of the congregation whose BCPs you will only take away when you prise them from their cold dead fingers. In the CofE BCP is legally protected as the default option where the parties can't agree on what liturgy to use.

Posted by Charles Read (# 3963) on :

Ironically, those who want to use 'traditional' texts may avail themselves of the permissions in the Service ofthe vWord to do so - invitation to confession being a good example.

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
I want my parish to stop using the 1662 Communion liturgy because the structure really bugs me.

That's fine, in the doubtful scenario that the rest of the congregation agree with you - my impression is that BCP useage - apart from Evensong- is diminishing, and in those places where it is used it is vigorously defended. They are not going to stop using it simply because you want them to so I suppose that will mean finding another parish.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Depending on your circumstances, you may find your parish priest more sympathetic to your views than many members of the congregation whose BCPs you will only take away when you prise them from their cold dead fingers.

Sometimes, in America, there is a literal book that would be involved in the prising.

A few of my fellow parishioners have leather-bound copies of the 1928 BCP bound with the 1940 Hymnal that they bring to mass Sunday by Sunday and which appear to be older than they are.

Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :

We made the transition from BCP (with books, archaic typesetting, pages skipped unannounced, etc) to CW Order 2 in Trad language (with nice booklets) easily and seamlessly.

Of course, the new booklets say "from the Book of Common Prayer (1662)" on the cover, which most of it is, though they do have the correct copyright notice on the back...

Posted by Indifferently (# 17517) on :

Ok, perhaps I was a bit rash. If my parish uses the 1662 at its 11am on a Sunday there is probably no chance of its being changed. I should approach it on its own terms.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
I want my parish to stop using the 1662 Communion liturgy because the structure really bugs me.

Meaning the Canon Interruptus? That's one reason I'm glad the US prayerbooks have come through the Scottish tradition rather than the English.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
I want my parish to stop using the 1662 Communion liturgy because the structure really bugs me.
Meaning the Canon Interruptus? That's one reason I'm glad the US prayerbooks have come through the Scottish tradition rather than the English.

It is funny, but I occasionally miss the old 'Canon Missae Interruptus' - I guess it all depends on what one grew up with. I am not denying the superiority of the Scottish-American version, but just that I miss the old book sometimes. However, most of the time when I was back in the old Country and I celebrated '1662' even if I did not change a damn thing else I would recite the Prayer of Oblation straight after the Consecration. However, in Ireland I would recite both the Oblation and the Thanksgiving one after the other as per the rubrics. (Method approved by Irish GGF - apparently)

PD

[ 26. April 2013, 06:26: Message edited by: PD ]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Ok, perhaps I was a bit rash. If my parish uses the 1662 at its 11am on a Sunday there is probably no chance of its being changed. I should approach it on its own terms.

I think if my parish church were using 1662 communion as its main Sunday service I wouldn't just accept it- I'd rejoice.

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