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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Lecterns and their like
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
This thread comes out of exploring the website for Victory Church . (see image in box to top right)
When it comes to a lectern choice in a new church and therefore free to pick anything... Why? Just why?
I know there was a phase in chapel architecture that mimics the roman/greek temples, but why make that image a lectern?
I also dislike the clear perspex lecterns like this * - I don't need to see your notes, glass of water and box of hankies or whatever.
I am equal ops in my lectern/pulpit views - I grew up in a church with a pulpit 9 steps up each side. Ever since I have had an allergy to pulpits - I will go in them only if necessary to see and been seen or if mic system fixed.
What are the best and worst examples of lecterns/pulpits/reading desks you have come across?
* I love how this example is under 'household products'
(Edited to complete sentences!)
[ 20. May 2013, 15:04: Message edited by: Avila ]
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
I also dislike the clear perspex lecterns like this * - I don't need to see your notes, glass of water and box of hankies or whatever.
A church I visited had a lectern similar to that one but there was a piece of coloured card glued to the inside. It made a nice background for the emblem on the front (a dove I think) but on closer inspection it said on the side facing away from the congregation "Check your flies!!!".
Personally I'm a sucker for a brass eagle, I always make a special effort when reading from one!
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
A lectern not shaped like an eagle hardly deserves the name lectern at all. Just saying.
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
The lecterns here in Kenya appear to be designed for use by the Maasai. I preached a couple of weeks ago and had to move out from behind as I could neither see nor be seen!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
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Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Well, this thread is going straight to Eccles. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm very traditional in my tastes in lecturns, if present. I prefer a traditional wooden stand, no eagles please!
Even better, the traditional rig of a single pulpit without a lecturn (could be considered an ambo). That's very common in smaller churches in the UCCan. It was near universal until 1920.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Eagle lecterns definitely, your choice of either wood or metal.
For pulpits I definitely prefer wood, and it must have a sounding board above.
One trend I've noticed is for modern wooden pulpits to be fitted with a slope, which can cause problems. A visiting priest decreed that readers at a wedding should do so from the pulpit; hot day, female reader removed her jacket to reveal strapless dress - from the body of the church she looked naked ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
We were donated a movable/collapsible reading thing (looks like a deficient clothes horse) with front hanging of white figured satin damask: it is no thing of beauty and the fact that the damask bit can't be removed for cleaning means we now have non-liturgical grey ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I can say *not* that lectern. Looks like something made of moulded plastic brought in from a garden, faux ruins and the like. I wouldn't have said this until seeing this one: a lectern should not distract, nor create a sense of silliness.
That's quite the website also. The title "outpouring" has distinctly non-churchy associations here, lacrymose and micturition.
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
Oh no not Eccles....
Actually was after the wacky and the weird that people have come across in the range of church furnishing for enabling standing at and talking...
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Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917
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Posted
I once came across a wooden lectern that was in the shape of a young woman with a star on her brow, which I thought was quite a nice change from brass eagles. It was somewhere near Lancaster.
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Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
As any reader of chapters XI and XII of Augustus Carp will remember, new lecterns can cause trouble...
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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norfolkadam
Apprentice
# 17674
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Posted
That perspex lectern looks incredibly tacky (Norwich Cathedral has something a bit similar, here). I suppose it would depend on my surroundings, if you're in a Victorian church you probably want a Victorian lectern; if you're in a Modernist church you probably want a modernist lectern.
I have to say I am quite enamoured by the solid, concrete lectern at Clifton Cathedral. See here. It feels rooted to the body of the church (itself a lumpen mass of concrete).
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ThunderBunk
Stone cold idiot
# 15579
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkadam:
(Norwich Cathedral has something a bit similar, here).
These are in its new conference/meetings facility, the Hostry.
[ 20. May 2013, 21:15: Message edited by: FooloftheShip ]
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Currently mostly furious, and occasionally foolish. Normal service may resume eventually. Or it may not. And remember children, "feiern ist wichtig".
Foolish, potentially deranged witterings
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norfolkadam
Apprentice
# 17674
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FooloftheShip:
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkadam:
(Norwich Cathedral has something a bit similar, here).
These are in its new conference/meetings facility, the Hostry.
Ah, that makes sense. I still don't like them, even in the more modern setting of the Hostry (which is a fantastic piece of architecture). I see Norwich actually has a rather attractive Eagle and a tasteful wooden lectern in the nave and sanctuary.
[ 20. May 2013, 21:22: Message edited by: norfolkadam ]
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkadam:
.
I have to say I am quite enamoured by the solid, concrete lectern at Clifton Cathedral. See here. It feels rooted to the body of the church (itself a lumpen mass of concrete).
From the same era as the Methodist Church in Longbridge Birmingham, concrete pulpit, altar and all other upfront furnishings AIRC - very rooted, not great for flexibility though
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norfolkadam
Apprentice
# 17674
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
quote:
Originally posted by norfolkadam:
.
I have to say I am quite enamoured by the solid, concrete lectern at Clifton Cathedral. See here. It feels rooted to the body of the church (itself a lumpen mass of concrete).
From the same era as the Methodist Church in Longbridge Birmingham, concrete pulpit, altar and all other upfront furnishings AIRC - very rooted, not great for flexibility though
I suppose it is difficult to find something rooted and flexible. You hardly want to get the pneumatic drill out every time you feel like re-arranging.
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Pia
Shipmate
# 17277
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Posted
This is substantial enough to look solid, but flexible too. It takes up quite a lot of space, though.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Well, this thread is going straight to Eccles.
I'm very traditional in my tastes in lecturns, if present. I prefer a traditional wooden stand, no eagles please!
Even better, the traditional rig of a single pulpit without a lecturn (could be considered an ambo). That's very common in smaller churches in the UCCan. It was near universal until 1920.
Weirdly enough, my own AffCath place has a pulpit and no lectern. Does my priest have secret URC leanings?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Well, this thread is going straight to Eccles.
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
Oh no not Eccles....
'Fraid so. Hold on tight to your pew seats now while the virtual removal men pack up the lecterns, and transport you to a more ecclesiastical setting...
Ariel
Heaven Host
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
To keep up the avian theme there are of course lecterns that are Pelicans.
Some of you might want to be careful of your identification of lectern birds as Eagles, if they are picking up biblical references then the original bird might have been a vulture.
Jengie
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
In RC Churches the norm is to use the pulpit for all Scripture readings and for the homily (unless a bishop preaches from the chair) and to use a lectern for the cantor. If there is no cantor an the psalm is read not sing, it is usually done from the pulpit. In cathedrals with really fancy pulpits I have seen the pulpit only used for the gospel and homily and the lectern used for the rest, or the lectern used for everything when it is just an ordinary daily Mass, but I am not sure if that is allowed.
I guess you can look as the 20th century Liturgical movement focusing on three locations: the altar/table, the ambo/pulpit, and the presider's chair. Is it wrong to have two ambos? In some Episcopal churches, the first and second readings are done from the lectern, the Gospel is proclaimed in the center aisle, and only the sermon is delivered from the pulpit, meaning that at least at the principal Sunday Eucharist the pulpit is not used for the proclamation of the Word at all. In that case one wonders whether or not the lectern is more of an ambo than the pulpit. I personally think all Scripture readings and preaching should be from the same location but that is very Vatican II of me. As for having a microphone for a cantor or other announcements then an additional lectern can be added. Interestingly many RC churches that have a lectern for the cantor use the pulpit for announcements and for prayers of the faithful, meaning that only the cantor gets a "lectern-type" place just for her/him, which is odd. Is it wrong to use the pulpit for the prayers of the faithful and announcements?
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
On Second thought I guess a sermon counts as a form of proclamation of the Word, but it still seems very odd that there would be a Eucharist where the pulpit is used for the sermon but no Scripture readings are done from it.
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Vade Mecum
Shipmate
# 17688
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
On Second thought I guess a sermon counts as a form of proclamation of the Word, but it still seems very odd that there would be a Eucharist where the pulpit is used for the sermon but no Scripture readings are done from it.
But that was in fact the case for hundreds of years, the readings being read from the missal at the altar and legilium, by the sacred ministers. Indeed the whole tenor of the Western Rite sequence of readings acts to emphasise both the scriptural 'hierarchy' of [Prophecy], Epistle, Gospel, by location, reader and tone sung, and to unite the proclamation of the Word with the Sacrament of the altar, in the unity of place and person (i.e. sanctuary and clergy).
It might even be said that the post-conciliar tendency sets up Word and Sacrament as poles between which the Mass oscillates, in a way which might be called unhelpful. Both models seem to have coherence.
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I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
To keep up the avian theme there are of course lecterns that are Pelicans.
Jengie
And one that I have seen (in Dio of South Florida, IIRC) was either a gull or a tern. Quite handsome, though.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
I personally think all Scripture readings and preaching should be from the same location but that is very Vatican II of me.
So do I, but I'm as Vatican 2 as an Anglican can be.
My previous parish had two ambos. The church was (re)built in the early 1950s in line with then early Liturgical Movement thinking, but quite what that thinking was I don't know. I would have preferred to have used one of them for all three scripture readings and the sermon, and the other for intercessions/announcements etc, but I was over-ruled and the OT was read from one, the epistle from the other, and the gospel in the nave. Not helpful, to my way of thinking.
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
I understand the point of readings from the altar in the per Vatican II rite. But wasn't the restoration of the ambo to its place as the site of the proclamation of the Word one of the keys aspects of the Liturgical Movement? If a pulpit is just or preaching (ie, breaking of the word), is it an ambo? Is a lectern designed for certain readings (ie, an eagle lectern) a form of ambo? Does that mean a Church can have two ambos?
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Now a owl
I know this is not a lectern but the dove on this webpage is magnificent. However Kevin Mayhew do do a dove.
I wonder if anywhere has a wild goose?
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
This one seems to have everything except a wild goose -- "a parrot, a turkey, a heron, a peacock, a cock, a little owl and many other birds."
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
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Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Now a owl
I know this is not a lectern but the dove on this webpage is magnificent. However Kevin Mayhew do do a dove.
I wonder if anywhere has a wild goose?
Jengie
Or a phoenix! Some of the pelican lecterns are incorrectly labelled as phoenixes but a phoenix would be perfectly appropriate too.
Not a church lectern of course, but Dumbledore famously has an owl. I'm surprised an actual church has an owl lectern though, since they were a symbol of death.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
At a neighbouring church that our lot joined with one summer holiday, the congregation for some reason (they don't usually) avoided several rows of front pews. The minister was leading the service from a lectern in the centre; it turned out to be on casters and she simply trundled it down the aisle to where the people were.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Now a owl
I know this is not a lectern but the dove on this webpage is magnificent. However Kevin Mayhew do do a dove.
...Jengie
I didn't know Kevin Mayhew did church furnishings too. This looks OK but if they apply the same standards to their furniture that they do to their hymnbooks I bet that when you get close up there's something unnecessarily fiddly about it. Hard to see how anyone could sod about with a lectern but if anyone could...
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
For the perspex lectern, one word: fingerprints.
No woman (okay, let's not be sexist, no-one who does church cleaning) would've designed a perspex lectern.
Eagles are great. But they are usually too tall, even the ones with little podiums. Readers in Victorian times must've come equipped with stilts.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
There appear to be two ambos here at San Clemente in Rome, although facing in opposite directions.
I'd like all the readings from one place, but it does need some imagination as to how to make it look telling. Sometimes it just looks as though it is being off hand. (I knew one church with seating collegiate fashion with the altar at one end. The then vicar had a very large double lectern at the West End and the readings and biddings for the intercessions were done from there. Very effective. Unfortunately the arrangement made his successors uncomfortable and went back to legillium (?) at the front.)
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
...
Eagles are great. But they are usually too tall, even the ones with little podiums. Readers in Victorian times must've come equipped with stilts.
Yes, that's curious, isn't it: I'd never thought of it, but of course 100/150 years ago people were generally shorter than they are now (even allowing for the fact that only men would have read from the lectern then), so if people today find Victorian lecterns too high, how did they cope then?
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Eagles are great. But they are usually too tall, even the ones with little podiums. Readers in Victorian times must've come equipped with stilts.
Thanks for using "podium" correctly, as you would. So often elsewhere, I hear things like "The lector reads from the book on the podium," which would be a very strange sight indeed.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I once saw a perspe3x ALTAR in Spain.
Presumably designed to allow the congregation to see the elaborate high altar behind it.
And to see the altar stone within it? That would be neato.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I once saw a perspe3x ALTAR in Spain.
Presumably designed to allow the congregation to see the elaborate high altar behind it.
And to see the altar stone within it? That would be neato.
Or perhaps an entire saint? (Granted, this altar is glass not perspex, but the principle's the same.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Thanks for using "podium" correctly...
Metonyms aren't really that annoying, are they?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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ArachnidinElmet
Shipmate
# 17346
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Posted
Not quite the same as elaborately carved pelicans, but the pulpit at St Mary's, Whitby (the one in front of the Abbey, and nearly over the cliff) has a 3-4m long ear trumpet. In days gone by, the vicar had it installed so his profoundly deaf wife could hear his sermons.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Thanks for using "podium" correctly...
Metonyms aren't really that annoying, are they?
They shouldn't be. I'm odd. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I once saw a perspe3x ALTAR in Spain.
Presumably designed to allow the congregation to see the elaborate high altar behind it.
And to see the altar stone within it? That would be neato.
Or perhaps an entire saint? (Granted, this altar is glass not perspex, but the principle's the same.)
Maybe I'm just not Catholic enough, but to me that's just a very creepy version of Snow White's glass coffin ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Maybe I'm just not Catholic enough, but to me that's just a very creepy version of Snow White's glass coffin
Very creepy -- I've had the strange experience of seeing the real thing.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
At a neighbouring church that our lot joined with one summer holiday, the congregation for some reason (they don't usually) avoided several rows of front pews. The minister was leading the service from a lectern in the centre; it turned out to be on casters and she simply trundled it down the aisle to where the people were.
Wilbert Awdry (the Thomas the Tank Engine man) once preached at a church which, he was surprised to see, had no pulpit. He needn't have worried: in the hymn before the sermon a choirboy disappeared behind a pillar and turned a handle. This caused a lectern to appear on rails (very appropriate) and trundle to the centre of the chancel steps. At the end of the sermon the process was reversed.
And no-one batted an eyelid - they'd all seen it before!
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
PS Knowing that Awdry was living in Stroud at the time, I wonder if this could have been at St. Paul's Cheltenham? And, if so, is the pulpit still there?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Maybe I'm just not Catholic enough, but to me that's just a very creepy version of Snow White's glass coffin
Very creepy -- I've had the strange experience of seeing the real thing.
Even worse than the preserved body in the Holy Souls chapel at Westminster Cathedral! *shudder*
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
Thanks for using "podium" correctly...
Metonyms aren't really that annoying, are they?
They shouldn't be. I'm odd.
Cheer up! If you weren't odd, blind that I am, I wouldn't have recently learned that podium was generally used metonymically. And this certainly is the right board for that sort of stuff.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
...in the hymn before the sermon a choirboy disappeared behind a pillar and turned a handle. This caused a lectern to appear on rails (very appropriate) and trundle to the centre of the chancel steps. At the end of the sermon the process was reversed.
There is a Congegational church in Copley Square, Boston—Old South, I believe—that has a stonking big pulpit that is also on rails.
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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