Ship of Fools: A little trip to Portland, Oregon!

Thread: A little trip to Portland, Oregon! Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by TheMightyMartyr (# 11162) on :

I shall be going to Portland in the end of August and as I will be there for a Sunday, I shall need a place to attend Mass! I'm probably leaning towards S. Mark's Portland, but if there are any other suggestions, I would love to hear them!

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

Well, there's St. Mark Anglican, St. Mark Lutheran, St. Mark Presbyterian... would you be more specific as to the flavor you're looking at?

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

Given your sig, you might be interested in St. Andre Bessette, better known as "the Downtown Chapel."

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

St Mark's Anglican Church is a traditional American Missal parish, and it is very well done. The building is extremely attractive.

PD

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
Given your sig, you might be interested in St. Andre Bessette, better known as "the Downtown Chapel."

Oh, yes, I've worshiped there from time to time when I was passing through downtown and there was a service starting. A bit far out of my orbit (and denomination) to make it my regular, though.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

St. Mark's Anglican has been very friendly the times I have been there. I can't say I remember the wall paintings, though. Are they relatively new?

There also used to be a (Russian?) Orthodox mission a few blocks north, off of NW 23rd, though google isn't giving me any joy. Several times that was an excellent Saturday evening field trip for me, to vespers (or perhaps, vigil) for the resurrection.

Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :

If organ music is a factor, I'd suggest that you consider Trinity Cathedral.

Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :

If you wish to worship in an Anglo-Catholic Episcopal Church, this is the only place in or around Portland as far as I know.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

St. Mark's Anglican is Anglo-Catholic.

Their website scores pretty high on the Anglo-Catholic Bingo Card, certainly much higher than that of Saints Peter and Paul Episcopal Church:

Mass
Low mass
High Mass
Daily office
Daily mass
Commemoration of saints' days
Scheduled confession
Inquirers' and Confirmation classes based on The Catholic Religion, by Vernon Staley
Rector and curate referred to as "Father".
They have a curate.
Unapologetic emphasis on Church reunion

Of course we are not sure what to make of the "Children's and Catechumens' Slave Auction follow[ing] the 10:00am Mass."

One, perforce, has to deduct points from Peter and Paul for trumpeting a Celtic spirituality—not very Anglican, that.

Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :

I qualified my suggestion with the word "Episcopal". St. Mark's is not an Episcopal Church. It is not even in the Anglican Communion.

Have we ever had a thread concerning use of the term "Anglican" (or perhaps even "Anglo-Catholic") by churches that are not in the Communion? I certainly don't want to start such a discussion here.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I qualified my suggestion with the word "Episcopal". St. Mark's is not an Episcopal Church. It is not even in the Anglican Communion.

Have we ever had a thread concerning use of the term "Anglican" (or perhaps even "Anglo-Catholic") by churches that are not in the Communion? I certainly don't want to start such a discussion here.

Ah, how I love the smell of praeteritio in the morning. [Roll Eyes]

I also recommend St Mark's Anglican, but feel free to take that with a grain of salt; I serve in the same diocese as St Mark's, and the rector, curate & several in the parish are friends of mine.

Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:

Have we ever had a thread concerning use of the term "Anglican" (or perhaps even "Anglo-Catholic") by churches that are not in the Communion? I certainly don't want to start such a discussion here.

Yes indeed - being tangential to the thread and probably not suited for Ecclesiantics anyway. As far as this discussion is concerned, I'd ask nothing more than that people stick to the facts and try not to make it personal.

(Discussion of whether there is anything 'un-Anglican' about Celtic spirituality may be considered in a similar light, thank you!)

Your cooperation as ever appreciated! [Cool]

dj_ordinaire, Eccles host

Posted by sonata3 (# 13653) on :

http://www.thegrotto.org/

is a beautiful setting, whether or not you're looking for a Catholic Mass. When in Portland, I usually attend Mission of The Atonement, a joint Lutheran/Catholic parish in the suburbs - probably not what you're looking for.

Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :

I realize I haven't offered the hospitality of Saint David of Wales Episcopal Church during your visit to our fair city. Mea culpa.

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I qualified my suggestion with the word "Episcopal".

You certainly did. And, I certainly read right over that word in your post, not registering it for a moment. My apologies.

Posted by ldjjd (# 17390) on :

No apology is necessary, TSA. I should have realized that the word "Episcopal" slipped by you, and I should have deduced from the OP that affiliation with TEC is likely not an inducement in TMM's church choice. I couldn't resist getting in a couple of yells for my team. My apologies.

Posted by Indifferently (# 17517) on :

Stay away from TEC at all costs. A friend of mine was in Denver recently and he attended an "Anglican Catholic" parish where they use the 1928 BCP, a highly authentic Book of Common Prayer.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Stay away from TEC at all costs. A friend of mine was in Denver recently and he attended an "Anglican Catholic" parish where they use the 1928 BCP, a highly authentic Book of Common Prayer.

It would be a 'world first' if St Mary's Denver actually used the BCP for the Eucharist. It has always been a gin, lace, and Anglican Missal joint.

PD

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PD:
It would be a 'world first' if St Mary's Denver actually used the BCP for the Eucharist. It has always been a gin, lace, and Anglican Missal joint.

Their bulletins indicate "Liturgy [1928 Book of Common Prayer & American Missal Rev.]"

Posted by Al Eluia (# 864) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Stay away from TEC at all costs. A friend of mine was in Denver recently and he attended an "Anglican Catholic" parish where they use the 1928 BCP, a highly authentic Book of Common Prayer.

What do you mean by "authentic"?

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Stay away from TEC at all costs.

Why?

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:

quote:
Originally posted by PD:
It would be a 'world first' if St Mary's Denver actually used the BCP for the Eucharist. It has always been a gin, lace, and Anglican Missal joint.
Their bulletins indicate "Liturgy [1928 Book of Common Prayer & American Missal Rev.]"

I realised just after the two minute edit window had elapsed that I had picked the wrong Missal. They do MP and EP out of the BCP with minimal Catholic additions and then the "Missal Mass." I lean high but find it all a bit too much on a regular basis.

FWIW, I had the same problem with St Mary of the Angels when I lived in SoCal

PD

[ 27. June 2013, 02:16: Message edited by: PD ]

Posted by Oblatus (# 6278) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PD:
They do MP and EP out of the BCP with minimal Catholic additions and then the "Missal Mass." I lean high but find it all a bit too much on a regular basis.

I still wonder how the 1928 BCP (USA) offices were done within 15 minutes. Our parish's Evening Prayer from the possibly less "wordy" 1979 BCP takes 13-17 minutes on average. They're scheduled for 20 minutes before a Mass, normally. But our parish, too, used to schedule its 1928 BCP offices only 15 minutes before Mass, and I understand they used the monthly in-course psalter plan, which means more time saying the psalms than if they used the shorter bits appointed in the lectionary. Must have been a speedy recitation!

Interesting that St Mary's in Denver does Morning Prayer twice on Sundays, once before each Mass. Not necessary, IMHO, but maybe it does give each set of massgoers the same opportunity.

St Mary Magdalene, Toronto, has Morning Prayer on Sundays at 10:30 a.m. before High Mass (I contend it should be before the first Mass, but whatever), and then Evening Prayer at 1:15 p.m. I thought that was a huge stretch to call 1:15 p.m. "evening," but I guess it's possible to go to SMM and pray a complete liturgical day: MP at 10:30, Mass at 11, some coffee or sherry downstairs, and then EP at 1:15. They do have their choral evensongs at 4 or 5 p.m. or later.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

You may underestimate the speed at which some clergy and readers can speak!

Sunday Mattins was advertised for 10.40 at SMM last time I checked; it's 10.30 at St T's. At the cathedral, it's at 10.15, fully three-quarters of an hour before the Choral Eucharist with no intervening service. I think that's excessive. At St John's Montréal it's at a quarter to 10 (with the Solemn Mass at half past), which is still a bit of a stretch.

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

15 minutes is fast but doable, and if you have a lay reader handle it, you do not have to pause for a vestment change.

On Sundays and Feast days we read MP a St Hardup-in-the-Backstreets before the first Mass and it usually takes about 15 minutes. However, we use the seven week cycle for the psalms, and the 1943 lessons are on the short side. I also read the collect of the day, and as it is usually me leading it there has to be a gap of about 5 minutes before Mass so I can change from quire habit to Eucharistic vestments.

FWIW, once a month (or thereabouts) we sing shortened MP before the Sung Mass and that also takes about 15 minutes. It gives the 10.30am people their opportunity to hear and participate in Matins.

We do not have the staff to do EP in church more than occasionally, though I am sometimes tempted to schedule it for about 2.30pm on Sundays when I get back from doing the sick communions. However it comes under the category called 'The Wife Would Kill Me!'

PD

[ 27. June 2013, 06:11: Message edited by: PD ]

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Indifferently:
Stay away from TEC at all costs. A friend of mine was in Denver recently and he attended an "Anglican Catholic" parish where they use the 1928 BCP, a highly authentic Book of Common Prayer.

By now we all know that:

You think the Church, or at least the Anglican Communion, should use a single prayer book and liturgy, and
That you have decided that one arbitrarily chosen prayer book is 'authentic' (whatever that means).

There's a whole thread in Purgatory where that's been discussed at length.

Your little crusade is getting a bit tedious, and does not excuse slagging off an entire denomination as somewhere to "stay away from at all costs".

Alan
Ship of Fools Admin

Posted by Indifferently (# 17517) on :

Thank you Alan. I suppose the question here is, what is and what is not Anglican? My choice as to what constitutes an authentic Prayer Book is not arbitrary, because the criteria is plainly that the book must not constitute a radical departure from the BCP tradition. Since the framers of the 1979 liturgical service book intended to change the theology of the Church by said book, that book cannot really be considered a Book of Common Prayer, no matter what it calls itself.

At least the other Anglican churches had the good sense not to pretend their radical new liturgies were BCP.

I was only advising the OP to avoid TEC because of the likelihood of exposure to heterodoxy. I would personally just hedge my bets and go to a LCMS parish and abstain from communion.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

I'm sure TEC shipmates will be quick to point out that the American BCP, from its earliest editions, follows in the tradition of the Scottish Episcopal Church and not the Church of England. Hence you have at least two Prayer Book traditions in the Anglican Communion, not one.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Indifferently, thank you for acknowledging my post. I now know you read it. I'm not interested in your justification for your position, you started a thread in Purgatory to justify that position. I am interested in your insistence on introducing that on any thread where you can conceivably twist the subject onto that tangent.

Here's your final warning.

Unless someone starts a thread asking for a recommendation for a church that follows a liturgy that comes with the Indifferently Official Stamp of Approval™ whether you like or dislike their choice of liturgical resources is irrelevant. Any comments by you on whether you approve or disapprove of the liturgical resources used by a church will be considered crusading and earn you extended shore leave.

Any queries, raise them in the Styx. Further disruption to this thread with you questioning this post will also earn you extended shore leave.

Alan
Ship of Fools Admin

Posted by PD (# 12436) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
I'm sure TEC shipmates will be quick to point out that the American BCP, from its earliest editions, follows in the tradition of the Scottish Episcopal Church and not the Church of England. Hence you have at least two Prayer Book traditions in the Anglican Communion, not one.

I think it would be fairer to say that the PECUSA 1789 and 1892 BCPs split the difference between the Scottish and English traditions. The 1789 Communion is basically that of England, but with the Scottish Prayer of Consecration rather than Cranmer's. For ecclesio-political reasons American Church historians tend to play up the Scottish connection and the whole Seabury thing. I suspect this is because serious historiography in PECUSA is only sparked by the 300th anniversary of Jamestown in 1907, though there was a small outbreak of interest in the Church's history in 1887 - around the time of the 100th anniversary of PECUSA.

By 1907 the High Church part was firmly in the driving seat, and this is one reason why TEC-ers largely remain in blissful ignorance of the influence of the Evangelical Movement in PECUSA during the mid-nineteenth century.

PD

[ 27. June 2013, 15:31: Message edited by: PD ]

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