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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Drumroll! Another hymnbook question
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Amos
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# 44
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Posted
I'm looking for a hymnbook, or song book in which are, basically, old favourites of the kind disdained by the New English Hymnal. Traditional spirituals. Revivalist hymns.
Not Graham Kendrick, Fred Kaan (or any of the various hymn writers named Fred); not 'Songs of Fellowship,' which I spent three hours trawling through last night.
This would be for use a) in the nursing home and b) in a less formal eucharistic setting with piano and guitar accompaniment.
Any suggestions? We don't have (or want) a projector, and, as this is a rural benefice of varied churchmanship, it's not helpful to hear how much better we would do if we imitated either Hillsong or St Thomas's, Fifth Avenue.
[ 02. August 2013, 09:08: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Amos
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# 44
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Posted
Thank you--I've used Common Praise in another parish, and found it rather like A&M Lite. Since the anthologizing principle of 'Sing Praise' is to modernize by way of including worship songs from the fourth quarter of the twentieth century, I'm not sure I'd find my old favourites there. But I'm very sure I'd find Graham Kendrick, whose work I hate with a pure and adamantine hatred. ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
[ 02. August 2013, 09:57: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
You would, you'd also find Stuart Townend and a few others.
Write your own book? Sort out the copyright and choose a selection using something like HymnQuest or SongSelect? A smaller local church has done this to supplement Hymns Old and New - in folders with plastic sleeves so the hymns can be changed around.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
It's a long time since I used it, and I don't even know if it's still around in the form that I knew, but would Mission Praise serve your purpose? I'm sure that Kendrick and the Freds are represented there but IIRC there was a good deal of the kind of things that you are looking for there. (We used to use it in a highish- benediction once a month- Aff Cath parish alongside A&MNS. The Mission Praise stuff actually fitted in really well.)
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gog
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# 15615
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Posted
It's an older book but would "The Methodist Hymn Book 1933 (with Tunes)" fit the bill?
Posts: 103 | From: somewhere over the border | Registered: Apr 2010
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I'll have a look at Mission Praise, Albertus: there may even be one on my shelves (borrowed from the URC last time we did 'Songs of Praise with the Salvation Army Band'). And the Methodist Hymn Book of 1933 DEFINITELY sounds like a good thing to have on hand.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Amos
How about a copy of the 1951 BBC Hymn Book.
Jengie
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
If that's the one that's in all the crematoria, then I've got one somewhere--if not, I'll get one for the library.
Also--enormous thanks, Jengie, for something you said on another thread about the importance of a particular style of decision-making in the URC (I think it was the URC you were referring to). Suddenly all our hiccups and tangles in ecumenical ventures with our local colleagues become less mysterious.
[ 02. August 2013, 12:04: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
It's a sad, wretched, fallen world if the best I can do is Mission Praise. It's sadder still because next to 'Songs of Fellowship,' Mission Praise doesn't look too bad.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
Looking for the classic popular hymns can be very difficult. Even in my congregation who largely sing the standards rather than the popular there are one or two where we have to got to Congregational Praise. No I am not suggesting that but it is obscure enough to give you some idea of the difficulty.
Given this I would suggest using one of the classic Hymnbooks, probably the original Songs of Praise (not the BBC one) and Golden Bells for the popular stuff.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Albertus
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# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
It's a sad, wretched, fallen world if the best I can do is Mission Praise. It's sadder still because next to 'Songs of Fellowship,' Mission Praise doesn't look too bad.
Oh, sorry for the duff suggestion. As I said, it's a long time since I'd used it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Albertus, it's a good suggestion, not a duff one. I was just remembering how lame I thought Mission Praise when I first came across it (at Cuddesdon where it was used for Alternative Worship by Small Groups). Now I know it isn't by any means the worst thing out there.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
You mean there's worse than 'Mission Praise'? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
That is exactly what I mean. ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif) ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
If it's the old traditional ones you want, including evangelical but not Kendrick, then perhaps something like 'The Redemption Hymnal' is something you might wish to consider.
Presumably you're hoping to use it with older people in an ecumenical context - a straw poll of older members of our choir, for example, revealed fond memories of hymns from Methodist, Baptist, Catholic traditions as well as Anglican. Not everyone in the Anglican church attended the same denomination as a child. But they do not know the newer repertoire from these denominations, only the older ones.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I'm hoping to use it--whatever it is--on the first Sunday of the month, when the music is accompanied by piano and guitar instead of organ, and we don't use the NEH. It's a CofE Parish Eucharist in a village with people from a variety of religious backgrounds and churchmanships coming together as a congregation. The service is neither ecumenical nor principally directed towards old people. However I want hymns that older people can sing, because they're the ones who sing up, and if they don't sing nobody does. If they sing with enjoyment everybody joins in.
As I recall it's Miss Grace Tollemache in J.L. Carr's novel 'The Harpole Report' who discovers the efficacy of resurrecting rousing old mission hymns for a new generation. This was the author's view too, and for all his eccentricity, I suspect there's something in it. Better than more Crappy Choruses, anyway.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
As a sampler, the Redemption Hymnal has 60 snippets here of the sort of music contained within (and also on CD if you wish). Some of them sound a bit twee to my ears, but they certainly give you a rousing good sing...
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
Having had a Methodist Hymn book in my hands yesterday I suspect you might like it.
The other thing to do is ask the congregation which hymns they know and remember - and build your own book from something like SongSelect or HymnQuest - either will give you the copyright return you need to complete and you can create a book that you can use. The way this is done locally is a folder full of plastic envelopes with hymns in. It's a small church and the regular congregation is 40 odd, so it wasn't a huge job, but has given them the opportunity to produce books they can change.
The other option is recruit an informal choir to lead the singing.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
The Song Book of The Salvation Army. Ignore our own-penned songs and you'll find Moody & Sankey, Anglican hymns, Catholic Hymns, Methodist hymns - all you need ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
And not one Kendrick song.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I have an old Methodist Hymn Book and turn to it when I can't find trad hymns elsewhere
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
Cyberhymnal at Hymntime.
http://www.hymntime.com/tch/
(Cyberhymnal used to be at cyberhymnal, someone grabbed the domain name when the owner was a couple days late renewing, copied the content and made it a commercial site, lots of links to affiliates. The original cyberhmnal labor of love is now at hymntime.)
9000 public domain hymns in MIDI, NWC, PDF formats.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
quote:
posted by Mudfrog
...
And not one Kendrick song.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Wild Organist
Apprentice
# 12631
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Posted
New English Hymnal isn't that bad, but better is the 1933 version of English Hymnal. But, since I was brought up with that, it's just nostalgia for me.
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Be very careful what you wish for. You might just get it.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
I can't comment on the respective musical qualities, but NEH seemed to miss out many of the solid old hymns, while maintaining most of the old exclusive language. And it came out just at the wrong time for liturgy in the C of E: it's adjusted to the ASB calendar but the 'liturgical' section (eg Holy Week) didn't/couldn't take into account modern developments. People who wanted to use the old material for that would be best sticking to the old book.
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Try
Shipmate
# 4951
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Posted
If you were in the United States I would say that the Cokesbury Hymnal. It was first published in 1936 and has been continuously in print ever since. It was prepared by Methodists but was never the official hymnal of any denomination and it was intended as an interdenominational revivalist hymnal. It is still frequently used by smaller rural Methodist churches, especially in the American Southeast. I don't know how much overlap there is between the old gospel hymns on my side of the pond and yours, but if there is overlap you might want to look into the Cokesbury Hymnal.
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“I’m so glad to be a translator in the 20th century. They only burn Bibles now, not the translators!” - the Rev. Dr. Bruce M. Metzger
Posts: 852 | From: Beautiful Ohio, in dreams again I see... | Registered: Sep 2003
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Thanks for all the suggestions!
I use the Cyberhymnal all the time--have done for years. It's a great resource. Oremus hymnal is pretty good too.
I'll look into getting a copy of the Salvation Army Hymnal-thank you Mudfrog, and the Cokesbury Hymnal--thank you, Try.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
In the same vein as CyberHymnal and Oremus, I heartily recommend hymnary.org .
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Try:
If you were in the United States I would say that the Cokesbury Hymnal. It was first published in 1936 and has been continuously in print ever since. It was prepared by Methodists but was never the official hymnal of any denomination and it was intended as an interdenominational revivalist hymnal. It is still frequently used by smaller rural Methodist churches, especially in the American Southeast. I don't know how much overlap there is between the old gospel hymns on my side of the pond and yours, but if there is overlap you might want to look into the Cokesbury Hymnal.
Now that sounds an interesting one - I'm guessing that it is pretty much limited to the US though as I've never seen any copies of it doing the rounds in any British book shop.
As a slight tangent, where or who was the Cokesbury in question?
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Flinging wide the gates...
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
According to Wiki, Cokesbury is a division of the United Methodist Church publishing house. The name is a joining together of the surnames of the first two American Methodist bishops, Thomas Coke and Francis Asbury. Coke was born in Wales and Asbury in England. (Asbury's childhood home in the West Midlands is still standing. I was in the vicinity only yesterday.)
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Try
Shipmate
# 4951
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Try:
If you were in the United States I would say that the Cokesbury Hymnal. It was first published in 1936 and has been continuously in print ever since. It was prepared by Methodists but was never the official hymnal of any denomination and it was intended as an interdenominational revivalist hymnal. It is still frequently used by smaller rural Methodist churches, especially in the American Southeast. I don't know how much overlap there is between the old gospel hymns on my side of the pond and yours, but if there is overlap you might want to look into the Cokesbury Hymnal.
Now that sounds an interesting one - I'm guessing that it is pretty much limited to the US though as I've never seen any copies of it doing the rounds in any British book shop.
As a slight tangent, where or who was the Cokesbury in question?
It's rare to find a copy of the Cokesbury Hymnal in an American secondhand bookshop as well dj_ordinare. They tend to be used until they wear out, and new ones are usually ordered direct from the publisher. Since it's not an official hymnal it doesn't get discarded en masse when the next edition comes out- though the powers that be in the UMC would probably like the churches who use the Cokesbury Hymnal to stop doing so. Still, I'm not surprised that it probably hasn't crossed the pond. But I just wanted to mention it because in the USA it would be the obvious choice.
[ 13. August 2013, 17:53: Message edited by: Try ]
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“I’m so glad to be a translator in the 20th century. They only burn Bibles now, not the translators!” - the Rev. Dr. Bruce M. Metzger
Posts: 852 | From: Beautiful Ohio, in dreams again I see... | Registered: Sep 2003
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
'Lift Every Voice and Sing II', a TEC publication, billed as 'an African-American Hymnal,' contains a fair selection of both tradiitonal spirituals, more recent spiritual-style songs, and a number of 'old revival goodies,' (the songs many of us grew up with). It lists on the Church Publishing website as $22 for the pew edition and $35 for the accompaniment edition.
An African-American congregation for whom I worked used it regularly in additon to Hymnal 1982, but (oddly, I thought) tended to favor the Moody-Sankey rep over the spirituals.
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TonyinOxford
Apprentice
# 12657
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Posted
Has anybody mentioned 'Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise' ?(Canterbury Press) which is the England version of the Church of Scotland's Church Hymnary 4th edition, and edited by John Bell. It has a lot of old favourites, incl spirituals, I think; quite a lot of John Bell/Graham Maule etc new songs and a very catholic selection principle! I can't get our local shack to invest yet...
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Tony
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
Mission Praise is a lot better than it used to be. When it came out in the 1980s, it was blue, paperback, naff and only had 282 hymns/songs, and was followed by sequels.
The white edition (c.2000) was actually a decent hymnbook - 800ish hymns with a decent mix of old and new. The black edition (c.2010) is even better.
The biggest danger with the format is that they often try to preserve all the songs in previous editions, which means they've got a fair bit of stuff that was cutting edge in the late 70s but is rightly forgotten now.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
Mission Praise is a lot better than it used to be. When it came out in the 1980s, it was blue, paperback, naff and only had 282 hymns/songs, and was followed by sequels.
The white edition (c.2000) was actually a decent hymnbook - 800ish hymns with a decent mix of old and new. The black edition (c.2010) is even better.
The biggest danger with the format is that they often try to preserve all the songs in previous editions, which means they've got a fair bit of stuff that was cutting edge in the late 70s but is rightly forgotten now.
Paper back editions were around 1984 as it came out for Mission England which was held in 1984, hence name. First hardback was early 1990s or more accurately before 1993.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TonyinOxford:
Has anybody mentioned 'Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise' ?(Canterbury Press) which is the England version of the Church of Scotland's Church Hymnary 4th edition, and edited by John Bell.
Yes, but has it been truly "Anglified" or is it just CH4 with different colours (and colour!) If not, it will be too Scottish for most English churches except perhaps the ex-Presbyterians in the URC.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by TonyinOxford:
Has anybody mentioned 'Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise' ?(Canterbury Press) which is the England version of the Church of Scotland's Church Hymnary 4th edition, and edited by John Bell.
Yes, but has it been truly "Anglified" or is it just CH4 with different colours (and colour!) If not, it will be too Scottish for most English churches except perhaps the ex-Presbyterians in the URC.
No. The colours on the cover have been reversed - the purple bits changed to silver and vice versa, but the contents are just the same. I suspect that it has not been a runaway success, given that Canterbury Press was flogging it off cheap this time last year - I picked up a full music edition for a fiver. Too Scottish? Who knows - I can only think of a couple of places outside Scotland where it is used, but there may well be others. I think that you can guess which one of those two might be ..
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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y rof a duv. dagnouet.
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Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
'Lift Every Voice And Sing' is a terrific hymnbook, and I'd be very much inclined to go for it if it were a little more affordable over here, and if it didn't look so eccentric to have an African American Episcopal Hymn Book in the CofE.
The revivalist, Wesleyan, and 'Dr Watts' hymns are absolutely typical of the Black majority churches I've known, and the spirituals are well arranged. There are also some decent mass settings in there.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
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