Thread: Drumroll! Another hymnbook question Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I'm looking for a hymnbook, or song book in which are, basically, old favourites of the kind disdained by the New English Hymnal. Traditional spirituals. Revivalist hymns.
Not Graham Kendrick, Fred Kaan (or any of the various hymn writers named Fred); not 'Songs of Fellowship,' which I spent three hours trawling through last night.
This would be for use a) in the nursing home and b) in a less formal eucharistic setting with piano and guitar accompaniment.

Any suggestions? We don't have (or want) a projector, and, as this is a rural benefice of varied churchmanship, it's not helpful to hear how much better we would do if we imitated either Hillsong or St Thomas's, Fifth Avenue.

[ 02. August 2013, 09:08: Message edited by: Amos ]
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Common Praise or Sing Praise?
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Thank you--I've used Common Praise in another parish, and found it rather like A&M Lite. Since the anthologizing principle of 'Sing Praise' is to modernize by way of including worship songs from the fourth quarter of the twentieth century, I'm not sure I'd find my old favourites there. But I'm very sure I'd find Graham Kendrick, whose work I hate with a pure and adamantine hatred.

[ 02. August 2013, 09:57: Message edited by: Amos ]
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
You would, you'd also find Stuart Townend and a few others.

Write your own book? Sort out the copyright and choose a selection using something like HymnQuest or SongSelect? A smaller local church has done this to supplement Hymns Old and New - in folders with plastic sleeves so the hymns can be changed around.
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
It's a long time since I used it, and I don't even know if it's still around in the form that I knew, but would Mission Praise serve your purpose? I'm sure that Kendrick and the Freds are represented there but IIRC there was a good deal of the kind of things that you are looking for there. (We used to use it in a highish- benediction once a month- Aff Cath parish alongside A&MNS. The Mission Praise stuff actually fitted in really well.)
 

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Posted by gog (# 15615) on :
 
It's an older book but would "The Methodist Hymn Book 1933 (with Tunes)" fit the bill?
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I'll have a look at Mission Praise, Albertus: there may even be one on my shelves (borrowed from the URC last time we did 'Songs of Praise with the Salvation Army Band'). And the Methodist Hymn Book of 1933 DEFINITELY sounds like a good thing to have on hand.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Amos

How about a copy of the 1951 BBC Hymn Book.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
If that's the one that's in all the crematoria, then I've got one somewhere--if not, I'll get one for the library.

Also--enormous thanks, Jengie, for something you said on another thread about the importance of a particular style of decision-making in the URC (I think it was the URC you were referring to). Suddenly all our hiccups and tangles in ecumenical ventures with our local colleagues become less mysterious.

[ 02. August 2013, 12:04: Message edited by: Amos ]
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
It's a sad, wretched, fallen world if the best I can do is Mission Praise. It's sadder still because next to 'Songs of Fellowship,' Mission Praise doesn't look too bad.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Looking for the classic popular hymns can be very difficult. Even in my congregation who largely sing the standards rather than the popular there are one or two where we have to got to Congregational Praise. No I am not suggesting that but it is obscure enough to give you some idea of the difficulty.

Given this I would suggest using one of the classic Hymnbooks, probably the original Songs of Praise (not the BBC one) and Golden Bells for the popular stuff.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Amos:
It's a sad, wretched, fallen world if the best I can do is Mission Praise. It's sadder still because next to 'Songs of Fellowship,' Mission Praise doesn't look too bad.

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Oh, sorry for the duff suggestion. As I said, it's a long time since I'd used it.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Albertus, it's a good suggestion, not a duff one. I was just remembering how lame I thought Mission Praise when I first came across it (at Cuddesdon where it was used for Alternative Worship by Small Groups). Now I know it isn't by any means the worst thing out there.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
You mean there's worse than 'Mission Praise'?
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
That is exactly what I mean.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
If it's the old traditional ones you want, including evangelical but not Kendrick, then perhaps something like 'The Redemption Hymnal' is something you might wish to consider.

Presumably you're hoping to use it with older people in an ecumenical context - a straw poll of older members of our choir, for example, revealed fond memories of hymns from Methodist, Baptist, Catholic traditions as well as Anglican. Not everyone in the Anglican church attended the same denomination as a child. But they do not know the newer repertoire from these denominations, only the older ones.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I'm hoping to use it--whatever it is--on the first Sunday of the month, when the music is accompanied by piano and guitar instead of organ, and we don't use the NEH. It's a CofE Parish Eucharist in a village with people from a variety of religious backgrounds and churchmanships coming together as a congregation. The service is neither ecumenical nor principally directed towards old people. However I want hymns that older people can sing, because they're the ones who sing up, and if they don't sing nobody does. If they sing with enjoyment everybody joins in.

As I recall it's Miss Grace Tollemache in J.L. Carr's novel 'The Harpole Report' who discovers the efficacy of resurrecting rousing old mission hymns for a new generation. This was the author's view too, and for all his eccentricity, I suspect there's something in it. Better than more Crappy Choruses, anyway.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
As a sampler, the Redemption Hymnal has 60 snippets here of the sort of music contained within (and also on CD if you wish). Some of them sound a bit twee to my ears, but they certainly give you a rousing good sing...
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Having had a Methodist Hymn book in my hands yesterday I suspect you might like it.

The other thing to do is ask the congregation which hymns they know and remember - and build your own book from something like SongSelect or HymnQuest - either will give you the copyright return you need to complete and you can create a book that you can use. The way this is done locally is a folder full of plastic envelopes with hymns in. It's a small church and the regular congregation is 40 odd, so it wasn't a huge job, but has given them the opportunity to produce books they can change.

The other option is recruit an informal choir to lead the singing.
 

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Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
The Song Book of The Salvation Army. Ignore our own-penned songs and you'll find Moody & Sankey, Anglican hymns, Catholic Hymns, Methodist hymns - all you need

And not one Kendrick song.
 

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Posted by bib (# 13074) on :
 
I have an old Methodist Hymn Book and turn to it when I can't find trad hymns elsewhere
 

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Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :
 
Cyberhymnal at Hymntime.
http://www.hymntime.com/tch/

(Cyberhymnal used to be at cyberhymnal, someone grabbed the domain name when the owner was a couple days late renewing, copied the content and made it a commercial site, lots of links to affiliates. The original cyberhmnal labor of love is now at hymntime.)

9000 public domain hymns in MIDI, NWC, PDF formats.
 

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Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 

quote:

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posted by Mudfrog
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And not one Kendrick song.

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Posted by Wild Organist (# 12631) on :
 
New English Hymnal isn't that bad, but better is the 1933 version of English Hymnal. But, since I was brought up with that, it's just nostalgia for me.
 

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Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
I can't comment on the respective musical qualities, but NEH seemed to miss out many of the solid old hymns, while maintaining most of the old exclusive language. And it came out just at the wrong time for liturgy in the C of E: it's adjusted to the ASB calendar but the 'liturgical' section (eg Holy Week) didn't/couldn't take into account modern developments. People who wanted to use the old material for that would be best sticking to the old book.
 

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Posted by Try (# 4951) on :
 
If you were in the United States I would say that the Cokesbury Hymnal. It was first published in 1936 and has been continuously in print ever since. It was prepared by Methodists but was never the official hymnal of any denomination and it was intended as an interdenominational revivalist hymnal. It is still frequently used by smaller rural Methodist churches, especially in the American Southeast. I don't know how much overlap there is between the old gospel hymns on my side of the pond and yours, but if there is overlap you might want to look into the Cokesbury Hymnal.
 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Thanks for all the suggestions!
I use the Cyberhymnal all the time--have done for years. It's a great resource. Oremus hymnal is pretty good too.

I'll look into getting a copy of the Salvation Army Hymnal-thank you Mudfrog, and the Cokesbury Hymnal--thank you, Try.
 

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Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :
 
In the same vein as CyberHymnal and Oremus, I heartily recommend hymnary.org .
 

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Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Try:
If you were in the United States I would say that the Cokesbury Hymnal. It was first published in 1936 and has been continuously in print ever since. It was prepared by Methodists but was never the official hymnal of any denomination and it was intended as an interdenominational revivalist hymnal. It is still frequently used by smaller rural Methodist churches, especially in the American Southeast. I don't know how much overlap there is between the old gospel hymns on my side of the pond and yours, but if there is overlap you might want to look into the Cokesbury Hymnal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:

quote:

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Originally posted by Try:
If you were in the United States I would say that the Cokesbury Hymnal. It was first published in 1936 and has been continuously in print ever since. It was prepared by Methodists but was never the official hymnal of any denomination and it was intended as an interdenominational revivalist hymnal. It is still frequently used by smaller rural Methodist churches, especially in the American Southeast. I don't know how much overlap there is between the old gospel hymns on my side of the pond and yours, but if there is overlap you might want to look into the Cokesbury Hymnal.

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Now that sounds an interesting one - I'm guessing that it is pretty much limited to the US though as I've never seen any copies of it doing the rounds in any British book shop.

As a slight tangent, where or who was the Cokesbury in question?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Custard:
Mission Praise is a lot better than it used to be. When it came out in the 1980s, it was blue, paperback, naff and only had 282 hymns/songs, and was followed by sequels.

The white edition (c.2000) was actually a decent hymnbook - 800ish hymns with a decent mix of old and new. The black edition (c.2010) is even better.

The biggest danger with the format is that they often try to preserve all the songs in previous editions, which means they've got a fair bit of stuff that was cutting edge in the late 70s but is rightly forgotten now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TonyinOxford:
Has anybody mentioned 'Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise' ?(Canterbury Press) which is the England version of the Church of Scotland's Church Hymnary 4th edition, and edited by John Bell.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:

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Originally posted by TonyinOxford:
Has anybody mentioned 'Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise' ?(Canterbury Press) which is the England version of the Church of Scotland's Church Hymnary 4th edition, and edited by John Bell.

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Yes, but has it been truly "Anglified" or is it just CH4 with different colours (and colour!) If not, it will be too Scottish for most English churches except perhaps the ex-Presbyterians in the URC.

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No. The colours on the cover have been reversed - the purple bits changed to silver and vice versa, but the contents are just the same. I suspect that it has not been a runaway success, given that Canterbury Press was flogging it off cheap this time last year - I picked up a full music edition for a fiver. Too Scottish? Who knows - I can only think of a couple of places outside Scotland where it is used, but there may well be others. I think that you can guess which one of those two might be ..

 

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Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
'Lift Every Voice And Sing' is a terrific hymnbook, and I'd be very much inclined to go for it if it were a little more affordable over here, and if it didn't look so eccentric to have an African American Episcopal Hymn Book in the CofE.
The revivalist, Wesleyan, and 'Dr Watts' hymns are absolutely typical of the Black majority churches I've known, and the spirituals are well arranged. There are also some decent mass settings in there.
 

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