Ship of Fools: Collegiate Churches in the Episcopal Church

Thread: Collegiate Churches in the Episcopal Church Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by BulldogSacristan (# 11239) on :

http://stpaulsavannah.org/

So this church, an Anglo-Catholic parish in the Diocese of Georgia, has begun calling itself a "collegiate church." I can't really tell why. I thought a collegiate church was one that isn't a cathedral but has a dean with a college of canons. The rector of this parish is a dean, but just the rural dean of his convocation. Two bishops ago, this parish was named pro-cathedral for the cathedral-less Diocese of Georgia for a few years. The past two bishops, however, have not named it as such, and it's status as pro-cathedral seems to have been taken away. The parish describe themselves as a current "proto-cathedral" of the diocese now, which I suppose is true in a sense. But does that justify the leap of calling themselves a collegiate church?

Can anybody make heads or tales of this? It seems like the phrase "collegiate church" appears exactly once on their whole website, and that is in the header.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

According to their history, a slew of canons was created in 1994. With perhaps one of them remaining (Canon Carter) among their honorary clergy, along with three other priests and a Lutheran pastor, they have a dean, curate, and deacon-- one might call this a college of clergy. A wicked person might ask to see their legatine or royal charter establishing their college, but it might be that the proto-cathedral character of the place gives the church that status. Given the fluidity of canonical status in indeterminate matters, it might be that if they think so, and others agree, they are.

Posted by acton bell (# 15576) on :

What benefit is there to being named a collegiate church? It sounds to me that this is just a marketing ploy, although who this would appeal to is pretty obscure.

Posted by Magic Wand (# 4227) on :

It's an odd designation. Traditionally this referred to a college of clergy bound to the public recitation of the Divine Office. Since they don't appear to have daily Mattins or Evensong, I don't understand what "collegiate" means in this context.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

Magic Wand makes a valid point. If there's no daily offices, what's the college all about? Why bother? Is it not then a bit like restaurants being called Ye Olde Teahouse?

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Collegiate churches here are those that in the past had a 'college' of clerical canons, monks/nuns or singing (paid) 'Clerks' and also a Bishop's throne. There is only one functioning collegiate church here that I know of.

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Magic Wand:
It's an odd designation. Traditionally this referred to a college of clergy bound to the public recitation of the Divine Office. Since they don't appear to have daily Mattins or Evensong, I don't understand what "collegiate" means in this context.

I know they do say the daily offices, though the hours may not be posted.

Posted by BulldogSacristan (# 11239) on :

Agreed, I'm fairly certain that they say both offices everyday.

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on :

As for the title - I just figured it was intended to be quaint.

Posted by Magic Wand (# 4227) on :

"Quaint" titles that serve only to put on airs, offices supposedly said, but not at specified times...

As Mrs Wand is fond of saying about the clergy, "If I did my job like that, people would die."

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

Sounds like a way of setting apart one's church as a de facto cathedral without actually calling it such, cathedral-collegiate alliteration and all. That said, the diocese could do worse than that church as a cathedral.

Posted by Mr. Rob (# 5823) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BulldogSacristan:
http://stpaulsavannah.org/

" ... The parish describe themselves as a current "proto-cathedral" of the diocese now, which I suppose is true in a sense. But does that justify the leap of calling themselves a collegiate church?

'Can anybody make heads or tales of this? It seems like the phrase "collegiate church" appears exactly once on their whole website, and that is in the header ... "

Mmm ... most Episcopalians I know would find the aspirations of St, Paul's, Savannah, to be over the top, not to say the subject of gin & tonic mockery. There are various odd places and things in TEC, such as former cathedrals that will not die, and parish churches (or clergy) that want some kind of puffed up status.

The only real de facto collegiate churches, not cathedrals, in TEC, are at the Cambridge, MA, with at the SSJE Collegiate Church of St. Mary & St. John. The monastic church of St. Augustine at Holy Cross Monastery, West Park, NY, is the same, all though the term "collegiate" isn't used by OHC, Both places those places maintain the sung celebration of the Eucharist and daily office. That's certainly true at St. Gregory's Abbey church, Three Rivers, MI, and with the sisters of the Community of the Transfiguration, Glendale, OH. At West Park, Three Rivers and Glendale they could much more properly use the term "collegiate" than at St. Paul's, Savannah.

At West Park and Three Rivers the church buildings themselves are called monastic churches. At Glendale, the sister's church building is called a chapel. There are no written rules or canons in TEC governing such titular issues. Call it what you want, but such freedom can also lead to other ... er ... issues.
[Roll Eyes]

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