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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Is electronic privacy important?
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
First, the info.
The USA's National Security Administration (NSA) tracks 100% of the data about all calls, emails, and online activity of everyone, according to documentation provided by Eric Snowden who was a contractor with a company working for these people. The program is called PRISM. If the NSA became interested in you or your company/organization and you use products or services, for example, from Microsoft, they can get into your data. Apple as well. We've known about Apple's tracking for a couple of years, but this broadens the issue to more than location. They know where are, who you talked to, and if they want, they can listen and record.
They can also intercept the audio and video from your Skype calls.
There's far too many links and information to post. But the summary is: if you use email, echat, facebook, gmail, any online cloud data service, post to a forum like this one, make phone calls either cellular or land line, make online purchases, bank online - the NSA know that you did it. It doesn't yet record all the transactions - allegedly - but if it wants to, it can track all that you do and watch you do it.
We've learned that if you're an American, they have some constitutional restraints that they will apply only when they confirm you are American. For the rest of the world, they collect whatever they want any time at their discretion.
Does your doctor use a computer and a server to store your health data? Well, they can access it if they want to. Your files on Dropbox? in a Cloud? of course they have access.
If you want to do an online search about these things, and you use Google, they will track your search and the NSA will know you did the search. (You might want to consider anonymous searches if you care, like duckduckgo (link to duckduckgo, and the few others out there (e.g., ixquick, startpage)
Second, the question.
Should we care at all? Is it okay that the USA gov't knows who you call on the phone, where you made your last purchase in a store (debit or credit care or gave them you loyalty card or account number), the results of your last blood test, your electronic pay cheque details, all of you bills, your comments on an internet forum (your IP is logged says the ship). Information is also coming forth that the USA is spying on its allies and friends, and it appears, on behalf of USA based companies about their competition. Again, do an online search if you're interested, selecting your search engine with some care (They will know that you used a non-tracking search engine, but not what you searched).
I personally think it is a terrible intrusion and must be reined in. ((There is another issue, which is what should be done about the person who informed the world about all of this, Eric Snowden, but perhaps that would be another topic.))
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
We've learned that if you're an American, they have some constitutional restraints that they will apply only when they confirm you are American.
Or if they really want to they will get allied intelligence services who are not governed by the US constitution to spy on an Americvan and share teh data with them. There is possibly some quid pro quo in sharing information they get about foreign citizens in the USA. Or possibly not, the US is very much the senior partner in these deals and probably gets given more than it gives away.
This isn't really news. We've known about it vaguely since the 1970s and in some detail since the 1990s. All teh cuyrrent leaks have done is update the public on the current version of the details - but I don't think anyone with an ibnterest in these things ever doubted that somethng like this was going on.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
If it is not news, why is Snowden stuck in Russia with the USA very angry and wants him arrested. Why don't they simply forget about him? Why did the USA get the Bolivian president's airplane grounded when they thought he was on board and create a diplomatic incident? Why are so many countries upset about it?
Why is the EU reconsidering trade deals with the USA?
quote:
The Guardian
The prospects for a new trade pact between the US and the European Union worth hundreds of billions have suffered a severe setback following allegations that Washington bugged key EU offices and intercepted phonecalls and emails from top officials. The latest reports of NSA snooping on Europe – and on Germany in particular – went well beyond previous revelations of electronic spying said to be focused on identifying suspected terrorists, extremists and organised criminals.
I think it is news: that everything we do electronically or telecommunications is monitored. Everything is a lot.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Why is the EU reconsidering trade deals with the USA?
They're not - that's a 2-week old article. Here's one that's a little more up to date:
quote:
The chief negotiators in new U.S.-European trade talks were upbeat Friday as the first round came to a close, saying tensions over secret American surveillance of European diplomats did not cloud the weeklong session.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
The USA's National Security Administration (NSA) tracks 100% of the data about all calls, emails, and online activity of everyone, according to documentation provided by Eric Snowden who was a contractor with a company working for these people.
[snip]
I personally think it is a terrible intrusion and must be reined in. ((There is another issue, which is what should be done about the person who informed the world about all of this, Eric Snowden, but perhaps that would be another topic.))
Is getting Edward Snowden's name wrong a security measure to prevent the NSA from getting too interested in your posts?
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
I think the truth is that whatever the fallout from this, whatever unlikely measures are taken, commitments made or whatever, privacy is history. Unless you want to go back to writing postcards or sending semaphore from hilltops. May as well get used to it.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765
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Posted
I suspect Argona may have been essaying a joke, the exact sense of which is too subtle for me; I only get as far as noticing that postcards and semaphores would seem to be among the least secure means of communication...
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
At times like this, I'm very glad I'm not famous. If anyone is that interested in the very small details of the life of a very tatty teddy bear from Creamtealand, then they must live very sad and boring lives. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
At risk of reviving a thread, here's a link that discusses the level of surveillance they are doing.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/17/nsa-surveillance-house-hearing
quote:
The National Security Agency revealed to an angry congressional panel on Wednesday that its analysis of phone records and online behavior goes exponentially beyond what it had previously disclosed.
the NSA can look at data not only from a suspected terrorist, but from everyone that suspect communicated with, and then from everyone those people communicated with, and then from everyone all of those people communicated with.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I'm concerned.
But I'm also a Cold-War kid, a Watergate-era kid, etc, So I grew up with the idea that governments spy on each other and on citizens, and generally get up to no good. Much of the time, at least.
Anyone else ever see the movie, "The Forbin Project"? (AKA "Colossus".) An American super-computer is tasked with helping humanity, and unilaterally takes steps to keep an eye on everyone...
I want stateside surveillance, without a warrant from a *non*-FISA court, to stop. I want the government to give Americans our due Constitutional respect.
I don't know if that's possible.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Before we ask the question in the thread title we have to ask, Is electronic privacy possible?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Although in German, Der Spiegel quotes the former USA president Jimmy Carter about the Snowden situation and the NSA. His comments are more about the erosion of democracy, which is a much more sophisticated analysis I think.
From my read he says USA hasn't a functioning democracy, the invasion of privacy has gone too far, the secrecy was excessive, Snowden's release of information was likely useful to inform the people, the government hadn't breached privacy of the people before.
[ 18. July 2013, 13:30: Message edited by: no prophet ]
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Although in German, Der Spiegel quotes the former USA president Jimmy Carter about the Snowden situation and the NSA. His comments are more about the erosion of democracy, which is a much more sophisticated analysis I think.
From my read he says USA hasn't a functioning democracy, the invasion of privacy has gone too far, the secrecy was excessive, Snowden's release of information was likely useful to inform the people, the government hadn't breached privacy of the people before.
Edit:
Reddit has a translation
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
USA has always had robots monitoring emails. Back in the 80s(?) you'd occasionally hear news reports of FBI agents at the door of some teenager who had sent an email to a friend saying something that could be interpreted as a threat against the President.
Where did I recently read that the UK - the British Museum? is that the national repository of copyrighted material? - is keeping an archive of the Internet (or the British part of it) including all tweets, blogs, and any Facebook pages they can access, because the copyright repository has a right to a copy of every copyrighted work and anything you post or email is technically copyrighted. BBC article on internet archive
I don't like either government or museums preserving everything I ever posted, but it's the real world and should be regularly shouted - whatever you post is forever public.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I get the posts and emails thing. The phone calls, electronic transactions at a store, the electronic records of say health or insurance, and the links between all of them, and most probably your physical location via your cellular phone. All all of this put together.
Yahoo new: You've got a problem:
quote:
...asked whether the NSA could build similar databases of everyone's Internet searches, hotel records and credit card transactions.
Robert S. Litt, general counsel in the Office of Director of National Intelligence, didn't directly answer, saying it would depend on whether the government believed those records — like phone records — to be relevant to terrorism investigations.
I suspect they're doing it all already. Why wouldn't they if it's electronic.
quote:
If the average person calls 40 unique people, three-hop analysis could allow the government to mine the records of 2.5 million Americans when investigating one suspected terrorist.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Morlader
Shipmate
# 16040
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Posted
It's the British Library, not the British Museum.
BL (and several other UK libraries as well as Trinity College, Dublin) has the right to a copy of published books, newspapers etc. and from April 2013, a lot of on-line published material.
See Legal deposit. But:
- I think BL are still working on how to get and keep the info(e.g. what format database?)
- There are several safeguards about access to the info. You have use their computers in one of their reading rooms (no on-line access), no printing, no cameras, no downloading. [I suppose exceptions might be made for police and MI* though
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif) ]
The objective is to keep an archive of published material, available to researchers, not a secret database of communications between individuals. Because publishing is shifting from paper-based to on-line, this is a/the only way of BL satisfying its mandate.
[disclaimer]I am an ex-telecoms engineer with world datacoms experience, but not a librarian.[/disclaimer] Morladres is a Chartered Librarian, however, with research experience, including miserable days at Colindale, BL's newspaper archive.
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.. to utmost west.
Posts: 858 | From: Not England | Registered: Nov 2010
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