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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Loneliness
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Would it be possible to have a discussion about the scourge of loneliness?
Not in relation to its close cousin depression (cause or effect of loneliness, or both cause and effect being the question).
Just loneliness on its own.
Not just what, if anything, can be done about it, but how do you live it.
More particularly, as you age towards that stage of life called "old age" when (we're told) loneliness is endemic, how do you deal with that panicky feeling that you've got less than a decade to make some meaningful connections before the light is shut out completely.
Someone is bound to suggest voluntary work, evening classes, church. Done them all. It's not being alongside people I need, its being connected. Church doesn't seem to work for me, maybe because I'm seeking connection before faith.
Is it a personal failing, like dishonesty or violent disposition? Is it laziness, not prepared to do the hard work of connection? Or is it just bad luck, a genetic/ nurturing mix of circumstances which just makes you into a lonely person and you have to thole it?
Is connection overrated anyway? Can we live a satisfactory solitary life? The Bible suggests otherwise.
I do understand that even a successful intimate relationship is not a guarantee against loneliness. But is such a relationship a sine qua non of a non-lonely life?
Not looking for any false reassurance or easy fixes.
[ 09. August 2013, 14:43: Message edited by: would love to belong ]
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Loneliness is an odd bird. There is no one formula to cage it, no easy equation. It isn't having relationships, but how we engage them, I think. Loneliness is a bridge not crossed in one stride. It is grabbing those little moments of connection with our fellow humans and building from them.
Pardon the incoherence, I should likely wait for a clearer head to post.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Thank you lilbuddha.
I have just noticed that my post count is now 55 and I have graduated from apprentice to shipmate. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Is connection overrated anyway? Can we live a satisfactory solitary life? The Bible suggests otherwise.
I do understand that even a successful intimate relationship is not a guarantee against loneliness. But is such a relationship a sine qua non of a non-lonely life?
Not looking for any false reassurance or easy fixes.
Connection can be a very real issue for people suffering from ptsd/cptsd. No matter how hard we try, those connections simply do not work.
I am not sure if this is true of you or not, but if it is, then there are other factors than loneliness involved. Trauma disconnects.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Is connection overrated anyway? Can we live a satisfactory solitary life? The Bible suggests otherwise.
I do understand that even a successful intimate relationship is not a guarantee against loneliness. But is such a relationship a sine qua non of a non-lonely life?
Not looking for any false reassurance or easy fixes.
Connection can be a very real issue for people suffering from ptsd/cptsd. No matter how hard we try, those connections simply do not work.
I am not sure if this is true of you or not, but if it is, then there are other factors than loneliness involved. Trauma disconnects.
Thank you, ACR. PTSD is not an issue for me, but I can well understand how it leads to disconnection.
No, my history is simply one of being disconnected from early childhood, despite a loving home and loving parents and every advantage emotionally and materially. I just never made connection outwith the family, a pattern which continued into adolescence and adulthood. Can function economically and practically but have now no emotional connection.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
Is connection overrated anyway? Can we live a satisfactory solitary life?
You say in that old age we're told loneliness is endemic, but that is only a statistical claim. Some time ago there was an article of the "80% of happy couples do X" type. My wife and I don't do whatever it was, so all we can conclude is that we're in the other 20%.
It isn't obligatory to "make a connection". It may work for 95% of the population and you could be in the other 5%. The only person who can decide whether a solitary life is satisfactory for you, is you. Make the most of your life in whatever way works for you - don't try to live up to other people's expectations.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
No, my history is simply one of being disconnected from early childhood, despite a loving home and loving parents and every advantage emotionally and materially. I just never made connection outwith the family, a pattern which continued into adolescence and adulthood. Can function economically and practically but have now no emotional connection.
K. So not ptsd.
But being unable to make emotioanal connections is not right; something somewhere is not working properly.
Is it that the people around you are too dissimilar? Not on your wavelength? That can be an issue. I have lovely neighbours; really nice people, but not one of them can hold a conversation on any subject other than their own children.
Maybe it is not that you cannot connect, but rather that you have not found the right people to connect with? Again, this is just thinking out loud, really.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
Is connection overrated anyway? Can we live a satisfactory solitary life?
Connection is not overrated. Those who are safely connected to the people around them cannot understand how difficult it is to be disconnected.
This is not about simply being alone. Anyone can be alone, whether emotionally connected to other people or not. Disconnected people can't be anything other than alone.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
The feelings the OP describes seem very common among (though in no way confined to) people with Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism.
It is perfectly possible for this to go undiagnosed until later on in working life - I was first diagnosed aged 53.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Is it a personal failing, like dishonesty or violent disposition? Is it laziness, not prepared to do the hard work of connection? Or is it just bad luck, a genetic/ nurturing mix of circumstances which just makes you into a lonely person and you have to thole it?
Is connection overrated anyway? Can we live a satisfactory solitary life?
No, no, no, no, and no, in my opinion.
(Which is proably the main reason I spend too much time inthe pub. There are people there)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
More particularly, as you age towards that stage of life called "old age" when (we're told) loneliness is endemic,
Personally, whenever I encounter something that "we're told" or "everyone knows", red warning flags go up and I start to ask questions. Like, who's this everyone? Is the person telling me an expert in the subject matter or are they the same jerk who informed me that I should enjoy high school (where I was constantly bullied and actively contemplating suicide) because they would be the best years of my life [spoiler: THEY SURE AS SHOOIN' WEREN'T]? Where are the statistics and how big's the sample size and what's the standard deviation*? Does the sample group include people of my own socioeconomic and ethnic background? Does it take into account the proliferation of new forms of communication and connection, like my soccer hooligan friend who talks about the "invisible people who live in the phone in my pocket"?
I spent the better part of a decade where my best friends were on the other side of a screen, and honestly, the path to my friendships where we see each other more than once a month in meatspace have all developed over the last three years, thusly:
1) Get season tickets to local sporting team.
2) Attend matches alone and don't talk to others, but holler on Twitter with other fans of local sporting team.
3) Start therapy to deal with some issues regarding trusting other human beings and anxiety in social situations.
4) Take the giant leap and sit next to the people who I had been hollering at on Twitter for the previous 18 months at the sporting event.
5) Begin setting up play dates outside of sporting event to hang out (and frequently drink, and holler about sporting event).
YMMV. And you might not like sports. But for every interest, there's an Internet community, which can lead to meatspace community. If that's what you're into. There's a meatspace shindig tonight for my sportsball friends, but I'm going to go home and have pizza and drink beer and probably post a lot about Pacific Rim on Tumblr because I also need my alone time. (Woo introverts woooooo!)
*Tangent: Whenever standard deviation is brought up in casual conversation, I like to shout "PRESENT!" and raise my hand.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
And it seems a bit harsh that someone posts abotu lonliness, and gets three pop-psychological remote-control diagnoses of some supposed syndrome or other int he first few posts. I don't think that's what the OP is looking for somehow.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And it seems a bit harsh that someone posts abotu lonliness, and gets three pop-psychological remote-control diagnoses of some supposed syndrome or other int he first few posts. I don't think that's what the OP is looking for somehow.
How fortunate we all are that you are here to demonstrate an alternative posting style to 'harsh'.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 09. August 2013, 19:09: Message edited by: Anglo Catholic Relict ]
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
The feelings the OP describes seem very common among (though in no way confined to) people with Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism.
It is perfectly possible for this to go undiagnosed until later on in working life - I was first diagnosed aged 53.
I actually think this may be close to the mark. I reckon if I was a teenager now I would be diagnosed. I never got into any bother as a teenager, went to school, passed exams, just a loner, so I went under the radar. Once you embark on independent life and function satisfactorily externally, but have no internal/emotional life, nobody notices your difficulties, why would they? Probably millions of people trapped like this. Don't want to speak the S word but sometimes its a comfort.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
The feelings the OP describes seem very common among (though in no way confined to) people with Asperger's Syndrome/High Functioning Autism.
It is perfectly possible for this to go undiagnosed until later on in working life - I was first diagnosed aged 53.
I actually think this may be close to the mark. I reckon if I was a teenager now I would be diagnosed. I never got into any bother as a teenager, went to school, passed exams, just a loner, so I went under the radar. Once you embark on independent life and function satisfactorily externally, but have no internal/emotional life, nobody notices your difficulties, why would they? Probably millions of people trapped like this. Don't want to speak the S word but sometimes its a comfort.
I am really sorry that you have struggled for so long. I hope it helps to talk about it now, and get some ideas to make life easier in future.
Even if your disconnection does not have the same root cause as mine, I can still empathise with it. And the comfort.
[ 09. August 2013, 19:42: Message edited by: Anglo Catholic Relict ]
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Thank you Anglo Catholic Relict.
By the way, what is an AC Relict and does it differ from any other kind of relict? In Scots property succession law, relict is an old fashioned word for widow, the one left behind who cannot be (completely) disinherited in the man's will.. I always thought it is such an insensitive word
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Thank you Anglo Catholic Relict.
By the way, what is an AC Relict and does it differ from any other kind of relict? In Scots property succession law, relict is an old fashioned word for widow, the one left behind who cannot be (completely) disinherited in the man's will.. I always thought it is such an insensitive word
I am Anglo Catholic, and relict is what you say.
I divorced my husband 11 years before he died, but neither of us remarried. When he died two years ago my priest told me that in the eyes of God and the church I would be regarded as a widow were I to want to remarry (which I don't and won't), and that he therefore would regard me as a widow. I thought that was very kind of him, because it felt true, in some ways at least.
I didn't want to assume the title of widow for myself, however, because we were divorced. So instead I use the term 'relict' to denote the surviving partner of the divorce/marriage.
Posts: 585 | Registered: Jul 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Like many people with borderline Asperger's (or similar) you may well find your 'home' here on the Ship. I hope so.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
ACR
My sincere apologies for asking a question which turned out to be so personal in nature, I really did not expect such an answer. I thought it was maybe some reference to an object of reverence in AC worship.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Like many people with borderline Asperger's (or similar) you may well find your 'home' here on the Ship. I hope so.
Thank you Chorister. Everyone on the Ship has been very kind and courteous and helpful.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Polly
Shipmate
# 1107
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Posted
The loneliness of Pastoral minstry.
Posts: 560 | From: St Albans | Registered: Aug 2001
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Abigail
Shipmate
# 1672
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Posted
I've been lonely all my life. I've never been any good at talking to people or making friends. I just don't know how it's done.
Some periods of my life have been better than others but now, in my late 50s, it feels as if it's just downhill. I feel the need for contact with people, but my social ineptitude (I think that's the right word) makes being with people uncomfortable. There doesn't seem to be an answer.
I have no close family - just a couple of cousins and an elderly aunt I never see. I have no close friends. I work but have never been able to make progress in a job because I find talking to people so difficult.
I don't think people dislike me, but I think most people think I'm strange. Well, I suppose I am.
My main point of contact with people is church. I've had a huge amount of help and support from my church and certain people there in particular, and I've been very involved but now most of the people I felt comfortable with have moved on and I'm having huge problems with the things that are happening there now and coming changes... I'm just not on the same wavelength as most people there.
I wonder all the time how much time I've got left and if there's any chance of anything changing. But I know inside that there isn't - because for change to happen I'm the one who's got to do it and I just don't know how.
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The older I get the less I know.
Posts: 505 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Never thought of pastoral ministry as lonely but perhaps it is. I always thought of it as meeting people and sustaining them spiritually, an amazing privilege to do (if you are gifted that way).
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
ISTM that there are many kinds of loneliness. To put words to a few:
There's the kind where we get on well enough with people, but don't feel as if we belong in their company / groups / etc
There's the kind where we're looking for romantic love, the deep close relationship we hope to find and keep for life.
There's the kind where we want companionship, someone on our wave-length to talk to, someone to share meals with, someone to be there when we want them.
If we know what kind of relationships we're looking for, we have a starting-point to finding them. I know people who are very happy with their own company, who want to live alone, and others who hate being alone at home and don't know what to do about it. If they would be willing to meet with others in the same situation as them, perhaps they might make progress, but they always seem to reject such a suggestion. Maybe someone will put forward an idea as to why this is. I know someone who went on holiday with an old friend for a week, only to say 'never again' due to their irritating everyday habits. I wonder how close this is to the reason some remain on their own.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I've been lonely all my life. I've never been any good at talking to people or making friends. I just don't know how it's done.
Some periods of my life have been better than others but now, in my late 50s, it feels as if it's just downhill. I feel the need for contact with people, but my social ineptitude (I think that's the right word) makes being with people uncomfortable. There doesn't seem to be an answer.
I have no close family - just a couple of cousins and an elderly aunt I never see. I have no close friends. I work but have never been able to make progress in a job because I find talking to people so difficult.
I don't think people dislike me, but I think most people think I'm strange. Well, I suppose I am.
My main point of contact with people is church. I've had a huge amount of help and support from my church and certain people there in particular, and I've been very involved but now most of the people I felt comfortable with have moved on and I'm having huge problems with the things that are happening there now and coming changes... I'm just not on the same wavelength as most people there.
I wonder all the time how much time I've got left and if there's any chance of anything changing. But I know inside that there isn't - because for change to happen I'm the one who's got to do it and I just don't know how.
Abigail
Thank you so much for sharing, your words are so moving. You sound very courageous. If it is of any comfort, you express exactly how I feel, particularly about getting older.
May God bless and sustain you.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
At the risk of being oddwoman out, I'll stick my nose in.
People may be lonely. People may be solitary. The two may overlap but aren't always the same.
Some "solitaries" really do want to be connected; other "solitaries" are content on their own.
I live on my own now, and have the kind of job where there's a lot of quite intense human involvement (some of it occasionally hair-raising). The only times I really feel lonely is when I'm on call (we have a rota, and generally we're on every eight weeks or so). This means taking responsibility for the agency's entire client load from 5 p.m. to 8 a.m. and on weekends. I feel lonely when I've dealt with some hair-rising crisis involving a client I don't know (i.e., not one of mine) at 3 a.m. and wish there was someone I could "de-brief" with when the crisis is over, since it's always impossible to go back to sleep.
Otherwise, I'm reasonably content. I do have relations and a few friends, and I enjoy my time Ship-board.
I've also had to get past a couple of hurdles, like eating out alone, or going to a film. I STILL grit my teeth when some waitstaff asks, "Only one, ma'am?" ("Of course not, you twit; I've brought my Invisible Rabbit!")
It all comes down to how much connection one needs, and how often, and what kind. It can help to figure that out, as it may help you in forming a plan likely to produce results.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
I've found a website about improving social skills which has been very useful, not only for giving me tips as to how to behave, but for helping me to see that I'm not the only one who feels awkward in some situations.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I've been lonely all my life. I've never been any good at talking to people or making friends. I just don't know how it's done.
But you communicate very well online.
Which is where I seem to conduct most of my social life these days. I find the other sort oddly elusive: I go to classes, chat readily to other people in and around whatever the activity and then it's home to a quiet evening with the iPad. Ditto neighbours - say Hello in the street, but there's not a house where I could walk in a door just for a coffee and a blether (and that's after 20+ years living here).
So it seems to me to be not just about being sociable/ non-sociable, but about how to crack into lines of communication. Maybe online is the way to go?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
My experience leads me to believe that some of the degree of loneliness is your own behavior and some is structural in your society. It's a lot easier to be lonely in a suburb where no one talks to anyone else and wandering down the block is considered odd behavior.
I think part of old age is there are fewer activities that you do the provide a degree of mingling.
There are various things that you can try to improve your social set, it sounds like you may have tried a number of them. Certainly after a while it's hard to want to bother with events that don't thrill in hopes of improving your social circle.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
There is a club in my village which advertises itself as a place to meet old friends and make new ones, if you are of a certain age.
Playing bingo.
Somebody, somewhere, is stereotyping.
Evening classes used to be a good way of extending one's circle in an interesting way, but now one has to fill in an Individual Learning Plan with what one hopes to gain from the course, and then complete it with the degree of success achieved. I know one person who abandoned a class he very much liked because he objected to making the amount of personal information the ILPs required available to nameless and faceless bureaucrats.
The tutors have to structure the classes as if they are providing activities for primary school children. One can't go to an interesting lecture and discuss it in the coffee break or at th epub afterwards any more.
[ 10. August 2013, 11:42: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I am having a problem with the letters on the left of the keyboard getting hit slightly after my thumb hits the space bar. Sometimes I don't spot them during editing.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Evening classes used to be a good way of extending one's circle in an interesting way, but now one has to fill in an Individual Learning Plan with what one hopes to gain from the course, and then complete it with the degree of success achieved. I know one person who abandoned a class he very much liked because he objected to making the amount of personal information the ILPs required available to nameless and faceless bureaucrats.
The tutors have to structure the classes as if they are providing activities for primary school children. One can't go to an interesting lecture and discuss it in the coffee break or at th epub afterwards any more.
<<TANGENT>>
UGH. Where is this the case, and who dreamt up this horror? It probably deserves a Hell thread. Can't people just try new activities on for fun any more?
<<END TANGENT>>
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
In the UK, England in particular. They get Ofsted-ed by people with no knowledge of the topic being taught. courses have to have outcomes which are seen to be productive in some way.
In one centre, which shall be nameless, the inspector criticised a pottery class because potplants in the studio were dusty.
Workers Education have been similarly infected.
Crafts, arts and languages are still available.
This was under Blair, but persists.
There is also a process of having to seek tenders to run courses from any "qualified" provider. (Some places have good U3A courses, I understand.)
[ 10. August 2013, 17:39: Message edited by: Penny S ]
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
WEA in my area looks decent again, not a word about vocational or outcomes. I am taken by this one: Riots, Rebellions and Protests: Kent 1381-1688
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Anglo Catholic Relict
Shipmate
# 17213
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
ACR
My sincere apologies for asking a question which turned out to be so personal in nature, I really did not expect such an answer. I thought it was maybe some reference to an object of reverence in AC worship.
Don't worry; it is not a problem. If I didn't want anyone to know, I would have a different user name.
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Abigail
Shipmate
# 1672
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I've been lonely all my life. I've never been any good at talking to people or making friends. I just don't know how it's done.
But you communicate very well online.
Thank you - but only part true. The reason for my small post count compared with the time I've been around is because I usually can't think how to express myself or can't bring myself to say the things I'd like to say even online where I'm anonymous.
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The older I get the less I know.
Posts: 505 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
In the UK, England in particular. They get Ofsted-ed by people with no knowledge of the topic being taught. courses have to have outcomes which are seen to be productive in some way.
Yes, it's put a few of us off weekend courses, which aren't as much fun when you now have to work towards a "specific learning outcome" and have homework and paperwork to fill in before and after.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I don't think people dislike me, but I think most people think I'm strange. Well, I suppose I am.
<snip>
I'm just not on the same wavelength as most people there.
I wonder all the time how much time I've got left and if there's any chance of anything changing. But I know inside that there isn't - because for change to happen I'm the one who's got to do it and I just don't know how.
Most people do not think I am strange, everyone knows I am strange.
As to same wavelengths, the best I can manage is a tangential crossing. I am also shy and hesitant, but my friends think I am bold as brass. I learned to open myself, just a little, to let some of what is within reach the surface. Small bits at first, baby steps. It is only too late when you are dead.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Ariel, I have this fantasy of samizdat or guerilla courses held in such places as pub function rooms, or the sort of rooms round the back of non-com church halls, money in the hat to pay the tutor and letting fee (though hopefully free) - sort of folk club classes. Or like Nathan Detroit's floating crap game in Guy's and Dolls.
No paperwork, no ILP
No Ofsted coming in to see,
Just like Hookey Street
Viva Hookey Street..... (For those not in the UK, this fell off the back of the TV programme "Only Fools and Horses" about a family of iffy market traders.)
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Most people do not think I am strange, everyone knows I am strange.
Amen. Fact is, we're all strange. That is, until we make ourselves known and understood. Reticent people are often lonely.
What holds the reticent back? The fear of being misunderstood and/or rejected. It can help to recognize that most of us have the same fear, or once had it.
We move past it, if and when we do, by taking risks, and accepting the fact that occasionally -- perhaps even fairly often -- we may actually encounter misunderstanding or rejection.
The trick is to recall that we're all different. Because some people may brush us off does not mean everyone will. We have to pull our socks up and try again (oh so much easier said than done).
Also, if one has long-established relationships of the distant kind (a la work), it's very difficult to alter those patterns once they're set. It may be best to take new risks with new people.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
There have been a few times in my life when I have felt gut-wrenching loneliness in a crowded room . Oddly though I've not felt such feelings when working or walking alone, (which has been often during 50 yrs ).
So far in life I've never completely lived on my own, and have always held the opinion that I wouldn't like it much . Of course I shan't really know unless such a circumstance comes about.
A deep sense of companionship can indeed come from intimate relationships, and can certainly be a cure for a type of yearning . However are such things really a cure for 'loneliness' per se, or are they merely a distraction ?
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Porridge:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Most people do not think I am strange, everyone knows I am strange.
Amen. Fact is, we're all strange. That is, until we make ourselves known and understood. Reticent people are often lonely.
What holds the reticent back? The fear of being misunderstood and/or rejected. It can help to recognize that most of us have the same fear, or once had it.
We move past it, if and when we do, by taking risks, and accepting the fact that occasionally -- perhaps even fairly often -- we may actually encounter misunderstanding or rejection.
The trick is to recall that we're all different. Because some people may brush us off does not mean everyone will. We have to pull our socks up and try again (oh so much easier said than done).
Also, if one has long-established relationships of the distant kind (a la work), it's very difficult to alter those patterns once they're set. It may be best to take new risks with new people.
Porridge, my fault, but I am not sure exactly what you mean by "long-established relationships of the distant kind (a la work)". Most of my relationships (outside family) are work relationships. Do these have to be distant relationships?
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Porridge, my fault, but I am not sure exactly what you mean by "long-established relationships of the distant kind (a la work)". Most of my relationships (outside family) are work relationships. Do these have to be distant relationships?
Of course not. But I understood you to indicate earlier in the thread that you had not been successful in developing friendships through work. My bad if I've misunderstood.
My own experience with "long-established" relationships are within my family. I've undergone a couple of traumatic experiences which made for some marked changes in me & my behavior. My experience is that people who've known one a long time, intimately or not, are often thrown for a loop when their friends/relatives undergo marked change.
It wrenches relationship patterns you've both grown comfortable with out-of-kilter.
For example, several months ago, a long-term relationship with my live-in partner ended. Friends we had in common are having trouble figuring out how/whether to continue a relationship they had with a couple with only one-half of that couple, now they're no longer together.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I've been lonely all my life. I've never been any good at talking to people or making friends. I just don't know how it's done.
But you communicate very well online.
Maybe online is the way to go?
That so often does seem to be the way.
One of my FB friends has a speech impediment, so finds it hard to communicate. But she can type. Instant freedom!
You so often hear about the dangers and downside of spending time online, but the positive benefits - especially for those who find real-time verbal communication difficult - also need to be highlighted.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
One of my FB friends has a speech impediment, so finds it hard to communicate. But she can type. Instant freedom!
You so often hear about the dangers and downside of spending time online, but the positive benefits - especially for those who find real-time verbal communication difficult - also need to be highlighted.
I have serious hearing problems. Even with hearing aids I don't understand every word. On the internet I recognize every word. For me this is a relaxing form of communication. I don't spend time and energy guessing.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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argona
Shipmate
# 14037
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I've been lonely all my life. I've never been any good at talking to people or making friends. I just don't know how it's done.
But you communicate very well online.
Maybe online is the way to go?
That so often does seem to be the way.
One of my FB friends has a speech impediment, so finds it hard to communicate. But she can type. Instant freedom!
You so often hear about the dangers and downside of spending time online, but the positive benefits - especially for those who find real-time verbal communication difficult - also need to be highlighted.
In a chatroom I'd often go to, years ago, one of the regulars mentioned one day that she was deaf. Until then, obviously, nobody had realised. Online, it made no difference at all.
Posts: 327 | From: Oriental dill patch? (4,7) | Registered: Aug 2008
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I have serious hearing problems. Even with hearing aids I don't understand every word. On the internet I recognize every word. For me this is a relaxing form of communication. I don't spend time and energy guessing.
Moo
Yes I find that too. The audiologist I first went to for hearing aids helped me to realise how isolating a hearing disability can be, and how stressful discussions with groups of people are, however interesting the topic.
Huia
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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