Ship of Fools: Matthew Fox OP I wonder what happened to him?

Thread: Matthew Fox OP I wonder what happened to him? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Tomorrow (17th Septeber or 9/17 for some of you) the church commemorates Hildegard of Bingen, declared a doctor of the church by the Pope Emeritus, who extended her celebration to the universal church.

I first heard of her through the writings of Matthew Fox, who was big in RC retreat house bookstalls some 15 years ago.

I understand he left the Dominicans and joined TEC and I haven’t heard anything about him since.

Anyone know?

Posted by Fuff (# 14655) on :

http://www.matthewfox.org/ Matthew Fox Website

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I had a lot of time for Fox. Indeed I was leaving the church before he came along - but he went off.

I find it very sad that people with a bit of knowledge destroy the knowledge of the faithful rather than building it up.

Posted by Cara (# 16966) on :

I too encountered Hildegard through Fox's book. I'm so glad to be reminded of them both today.

Both her writing and her art are moving and powerful.

I see from the website he wrote another book about her, published to coincide with her canonization and naming as a Doctor of the Church last year (mentioned in the OP and which I somehow missed at the time).

Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :

Matthew Fox, like John Spong, pop up from time to time with a new book or a new essay which is a basic rehash of his usual position.

He was a bit of a celebrity in the 90s with eco-theology and the Techno-Cosmic Mass, but his influence has waned, especially as more orthodox theologians take up questions of ecological concern.

His particular theology IMHO, placed too much emphasis on the dichotomy between Augustine and Aquinas (According to Fox, Augustine was this nasty, repressed and misogynistic a-hole while Aquinas was this lovely, 1960s-earth friendly theologian in the Middle Ages), ignoring that Aquinas basically saw himself as continuing and supplementing Augustine's theology.

[ 17. September 2013, 16:56: Message edited by: Anglican_Brat ]

Posted by S. Bacchus (# 17778) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:

His particular theology IMHO, placed too much emphasis on the dichotomy between Augustine and Aquinas (According to Fox, Augustine was this nasty, repressed and misogynistic a-hole while Aquinas was this lovely, 1960s-earth friendly theologian in the Middle Ages), ignoring that Aquinas basically saw himself as continuing and supplementing Augustine's theology.

How strange. That view of Augustine is not exactly rare on the fringes of liberal Christianity (as a pretentious 15 year old with Pelagian leanings, I used to say things like 'I'm a Christian, but not an Augustinian Christian'), but the sort of people who think those sorts of things are not usually enthusiastic Thomists.

Perhaps it's a case of 'once a Dominican, always a Dominican'.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I supposed I was not impressed by Matthew Fox because the basic point (sin is not the starting point) was not the classic catholic starting point and it wasn't mine. (AFAIKT it is the classic protestant starting point, but Fox would not like to be unecumenical.)

Any rate, here is the wonderful Sara Maitland on Fox in A Big Enough God.

"Firstly, it is not at all self-evident that everything in the universe is good: I would seriously question the moral value of red ants, stinging nettles, the AIDS virus and earthquakes. Nor is it clear we can learn the goodness of God simply from looking at X. We can learn about the cleverness, the creativity and wild imagination of God – but loving? Tender? Nurturing? Moral? Even from a human perspective that is simply not what the universe says to us – and from the perspective of the brontosaurus and the dodo the whole show looks like hell on wheels."

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

quote:
originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
while Aquinas was this lovely, 1960s-earth friendly theologian in the Middle Ages

Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Sara Maitland on Fox in A Big Enough God.

"Firstly, it is not at all self-evident that everything in the universe is good: I would seriously question the moral value of red ants, stinging nettles, the AIDS virus and earthquakes.

What price Gen. 1:25?

(Which is not to say that I'm endorsing (Matthew) Fox...)

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Ah, but that was before the Fall, which Fox probably thinks doesn't matter.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fuff:
http://www.matthewfox.org/ Matthew Fox Website

I would be instinctively cautious of anyone presenting themselves as a spiritual leader whose website is that full of his own name.

Posted by Olaf (# 11804) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Fuff:
http://www.matthewfox.org/ Matthew Fox Website
I would be instinctively cautious of anyone presenting themselves as a spiritual leader whose website is that full of his own name.

It doesn't seem to be too much of a problem for Sir Simon Ship of Fools, though. [Razz]

Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :

Fox's point that creation is still good is not a problem. I don't think Augustine denies that creation is good, it is still made and blessed by God.

Too much ink has been spilled over what we mean by "fallen." IMHO, to say creation is fallen is to say that while it is good, it nevertheless always has to struggle and wrestle against sin which seek ultimately to destroy it. Creation's full goodness will be realized at the Eschaton when it shares the ultimate fruit of Christ's redemptive death and resurrection. Until that time, evil remains a part of the picture and must be wrestled with.

Posted by Mr. Rob (# 5823) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:

Tomorrow (17th Septeber or 9/17 for some of you) the church commemorates Hildegard of Bingen, declared a doctor of the church by the Pope Emeritus, who extended her celebration to the universal church.

I first heard of her through the writings of Matthew Fox, who was big in RC retreat house bookstalls some 15 years ago.

I understand he left the Dominicans and joined TEC and I haven’t heard anything about him since.

Anyone know?

Matthew (Timothy) Fox is now a priest of the Episcopal diocese of California (San Francisco Bay area). Fox was received into The Episcopal Church as a priest from the Roman Catholic Church, on December 1, 1994, by William Edwin Swing, Episcopal bishop of California.

Fox lives in Oakland.

Information from Episcopal Clergy Quick Find

*

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Thank you, Mr Rob.

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :

Excuse me getting all Heaveny, but stinging nettles contain iron and can be made into a tasty healthy tea, and can also me brewed in water for two weeks and then added to soil in order to enrich its mineral content.

I'm not saying that I'm a big fan of earthquakes, but I guess that Matthew Fox would say that, that many see stinging nettles are being negative shows an anthropocentrism.

I did an assignment about Fox, having read his "Cosmic Christ" and "Original Blessing" and something else (his biography?) and was a fan at the time. Now like others I'm somewhat older and somewhat more orthodox, but it's good to remember the fact that Christians have treated creation very badly. Perhaps those orthodox theologians who have remembered/been more open about this have done so because of Fox.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Yes, far rather Matthew Fox than many.

I'm looking at Angela West's pamphlet Matthew Fox: Blessing for Whom? published by the Jubilee Group and Blackfriars Publications.

In the introduction, Ken Leech says, (after acclaiming Fox's important contribution to the need for an authentic theology of creation)

"There are many aspects of Fox's work which cause us concern as Catholic socialists. For all his emphasis on the earth, there is something unearthly about Fox's style, something ethereal, removed from the reality of life in the back streets. One wishes he had accepted Alan Green's invitation to spend some time in a run-down part of Merseyside - or anywhere that could earth him, help him to escape from the unreal world of the eco-bourgeoise and their endless meetings."

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I would have thought that his link with the Sheffield Nine O'Clock Service may have sullied his nsme - perhaps unfairly - in Britain.

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

I have on my shelves now, and I'm looking forward to reading, a very different take on original sin by another ex-Dominican, one I have far more time for -

James Alison The Joy of Being Wrong.

Posted by *Leon* (# 3377) on :

quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
I have on my shelves now, and I'm looking forward to reading, a very different take on original sin by another ex-Dominican, one I have far more time for -

James Alison The Joy of Being Wrong.

Glad you have far more time for James Alison. It's a brilliant book, and well worth reading, but reading and understanding it will take a lot longer than a typical Matthew Fox book!

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