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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Exorcists on the telly
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Deckie
Apprentice
# 17829
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Posted
So, my wife and I watched the 'Teenage Exorcists' programme from the BBC. I really don't know what to think.
The cynical non-religious reporter ended it saying something like, "Well, I don't know if they are actually casting out demons, because I don't know if I believe in demons. But after spending a lot of time with them, these girls don't seem like charlatans, just there for the money, or anything like that. They believe it, even if I'm not so sure."
OK. So, for the sake of argument, let's ignore the possibility that they're just doing the show to fake people's money out of them.
The whole, "you may have a demon in you, but you don't know it. You need to open up to it and let it manifest, so we can drive it out" thing just seems so insanely dodgy to me.
I was brought up believing something like, "There are demons out there, but not everywhere under every bush and tree. Those who Jesus has saved have the Holy Spirit living in them, and God's a helluva lot stronger than any demon (if you'll pardon the expression), and isn't going to share his people with any unclean spirit. Stick close to Him, and don't worry about them." (Roughly speaking)
Essentially, stay away from unclean spirits, stay close to God, and they can't harm/have you. If you go looking for them, watch out! If you open yourself to them, they do exist, and may well come.
So to me, inexperienced and naive, the idea of telling Christians to open themselves up for unclean spirits to manifest themselves seems like the most totally insane thing possible!
Tell demons to show up, and I don't think you should be surprised if they do.
On the other hand, these exorcists do appear at least, to be driving them out, and telling people that Jesus is the way. And so there's the whole, "if Satan is driving out Satan..." thing.
Alternatively, is it just a purely psychological thing, an opportunity for some Primal-Scream-Therapy, Jesus Style?
So. Gracious shipmates of varying persuasions, what do you think?
Deckie
Posts: 4 | From: Carlisle | Registered: Sep 2013
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
I got to 40 minutes in the documentary, and I have concluded that there is a large dose of psychological manipulation going on. What troubles me is the way they talk to the 'patient', but actually they are addressing the demon. This, in itself, is bound to cause considerable confusion in the mind of someone who feels extremely vulnerable and oppressed.
I certainly believe in the reality of Satan and evil spirits, but I find it hard to believe that this showbiz approach is the answer to deliverance.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
Oh, and I forgot to say...
Welcome to the Ship! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I may have been jaded by recent events, but I would like to start by seeing the evidence for their claimed black belt qualifications in karate...
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Deckie:
The whole, "you may have a demon in you, but you don't know it. You need to open up to it and let it manifest, so we can drive it out" thing just seems so insanely dodgy to me.
Yes it does. That kind of talk on tv is usually restricted to political discussions.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Zoey
Broken idealist
# 11152
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Posted
I'm two minutes into the documentary at present ...
... excited to hear that London is believed to be one of the most satanic cities on the planet and wondering how this is measured.
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Pay no mind, I'm doing fine, I'm breathing on my own.
Posts: 3095 | From: the penultimate stop? | Registered: Mar 2006
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Shiprat
Shipmate
# 12808
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Posted
I have no doubt that the girls are deadly serious and earnest about what they are doing. I am also in no doubt that they are being manipulated by Bob Larson, who is an experienced showman, with at least 20 years of scandal to his credit. More detailed critique here though source links broken.
I do believe that there are occasions for exorcism, but they are much less common than Larson claims (he said something like 50% need exorcism. Not sure if he meant Christians, or population as a whole).
I do not believe that boasting about "kicking demon's butt" has any place in real spiritual warfare. I did not see humility, rather what I saw was sexed up, WWF smackdown theatre.
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O. .O
(>.<)
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Posts: 274 | From: Upon the My Oh My | Registered: Jul 2007
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
Watched it, cringed, no way to deal with stuff, potentially very damaging, naïve on the girls' part(note the Harry Potter spells being real comment).
But the stories of those coming to the London event did raise questions for me - my blog on it
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Though as a martial artist let me note that it is VERY easy sadly enough to get a black belt that means nothing, if that's your goal ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Too true.
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Gwai: quote:
Though as a martial artist let me note that it is VERY easy sadly enough to get a black belt that means nothing, if that's your goal [Frown]
Is it? That's not the impression I got from reading this book - though one of the comments on Amazon suggests that how easy it is depends on which martial art you choose.
Not the impression I got from a friend who has a black belt in tae kwon-do, either.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Zoey wrote:
quote:
... excited to hear that London is believed to be one of the most satanic cities on the planet and wondering how this is measured.
In the book Michelle Remembers, which helped kick off the satanic-abuse witch hunts in the 80s, it is claimed that Victoria, British Columbia(where the alleged satanic abuse took place) is one of the major places in the world for such activity. Along with Geneva, Switzerland, apparently.
This factoid is attributed to unnamed "experts". But having been to Victoria, I could see why it would have some believability. The place strives for a "Victorian" feel, in that stagey, Hollywoodized sort of a way. Restaurants advertising themselves as haunted and whatnot.
[ 20. September 2013, 16:15: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Gwai: quote:
Though as a martial artist let me note that it is VERY easy sadly enough to get a black belt that means nothing, if that's your goal [Frown]
Is it? That's not the impression I got from reading this book - though one of the comments on Amazon suggests that how easy it is depends on which martial art you choose.
Not the impression I got from a friend who has a black belt in tae kwon-do, either.
Your friend may be a little more serious about her art. I've been studying TKD for 3 years and do not have a black belt. But I have heard of a dojang in this city that advertises one can get a black belt in a year there--six months if you come to twice as many classes. I hope there few that are that bad, but I am sure there are others that are much faster than I would like.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Zoey wrote:
quote:
... excited to hear that London is believed to be one of the most satanic cities on the planet and wondering how this is measured.
In the book Michelle Remembers, which helped kick off the satanic-abuse witch hunts in the 80s, it is claimed that Victoria, British Columbia(where the alleged satanic abuse took place) is one of the major places in the world for such activity. Along with Geneva, Switzerland, apparently.
This factoid is attributed to unnamed "experts". But having been to Victoria, I could see why it would have some believability. The place strives for a "Victorian" feel, in that stagey, Hollywoodized sort of a way. Restaurants advertising themselves as haunted and whatnot.
I am from Victoria .For the record I doubt we are any more Satanic than any other place. These kind of claims are IMO empty and pointless except to sell books.
And if the people in the documentrary are being l;ed by Bob Larson well sorry that descredits the program. Larson has a fixation
on the evil one .
So take this program with a big block of salt. And please come to Victoria you will enjoy ypurselves.
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
PaulBC wrote:
quote:
I am from Victoria .For the record I doubt we are any more Satanic than any other place. These kind of claims are IMO empty and pointless except to sell books.
Indeed. I wasn't in any way intending to validate the claims of that book, which are a load of rubbish.
quote:
And please come to Victoria you will enjoy ypurselves.
Oh yes, it's a nice city, for sure. I've got a friend living out there who quite likes it.
As far as I know, they do play up the anglophilia thing a bit in their tourist-promotion, but most cities are probably guilty of that sorta thing.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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PaulBC
Shipmate
# 13712
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Posted
Setson
thanks for the calrification. As for Victoria playing up being a "bit of old England" not such much now a days .
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"He has told you O mortal,what is good;and what does the Lord require of youbut to do justice and to love kindness ,and to walk humbly with your God."Micah 6:8
Posts: 873 | From: Victoria B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2008
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
quote:
In the book Michelle Remembers, which helped kick off the satanic-abuse witch hunts in the 80s, it is claimed that Victoria, British Columbia(where the alleged satanic abuse took place) is one of the major places in the world for such activity. Along with Geneva, Switzerland, apparently.
All wrong. It's not in Sunnydale, either (sorry Buffy). The real action is in Whitby, North Yorkshire.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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