Ship of Fools: New Bishop of Meath and Kildare

Thread: New Bishop of Meath and Kildare Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :

The Church of Ireland has appointed Rev. Pat Storey, rector of St Augustines in Derry as the new Bishop of Meath and Kildare:

New Bishop of Meath and Kildare

Posted by Peter Spence (# 14085) on :

Good news, looking forward to seeing her in mitre and cope. Oops sorry it's the Church of Ireland, so no Romish vestments! Any idea that this somehow establishes the CoI's 'liberal' credentials should be tempered with the fact that they have yet to completely dissociate themselves from the right-wing Orange Order -many of their ministers remain Orange chaplains- and they still have anti-catholic canon laws in place. They continue to be Unionism at prayer, although in fairness Anglicans in the Republic tend to be a bit more tolerant. Good luck to her.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Spence:
They continue to be Unionism at prayer

Though not monophonically so, it seems.

Posted by Peter Spence (# 14085) on :

Wow LQ, really weird! Though I suppose no less weird than the 'Irish Ordinariate' website (to which I would provide a link but don't know how to yet). If these aren't rather heavy handed jokes/politicoreligious satire then its time for the men in white coats, methinks.

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Spence:
Wow LQ, really weird! Though I suppose no less weird than the 'Irish Ordinariate'

Considerably less weird, I should think, at least in terms of historical precedent.

Posted by Peter Spence (# 14085) on :

I think we're in for a hiding from the moderator for going off topic LQ, -point taken yes many Protestants have been in the vanguard of our Nationalist movements though re the Irish Ordinariate this isn't exactly the same as going over to Rome.

Posted by trouty (# 13497) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Spence:
Good news, looking forward to seeing her in mitre and cope. Oops sorry it's the Church of Ireland, so no Romish vestments! Any idea that this somehow establishes the CoI's 'liberal' credentials should be tempered with the fact that they have yet to completely dissociate themselves from the right-wing Orange Order -many of their ministers remain Orange chaplains- and they still have anti-catholic canon laws in place. They continue to be Unionism at prayer, although in fairness Anglicans in the Republic tend to be a bit more tolerant. Good luck to her.

Unionism at prayer is better than fenianism at prayer. You try to denigrate the Orange Order by calling it 'right wing' by which we are suposed to infer that it is racist etc. if it was, why are so many non-whites in the OO in Liverpool? The intolerance of prod ministers in NI is nothing compared to the bigotry that has been pratsed by RC priests in ROI but I don't suppose we're allowed to say that. No fucking Surrender!

Posted by Peter Spence (# 14085) on :

Apologies to you Trouty, I retract the description 'right wing. It was both unnecessary and superfluous.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

The Orange Order is still pretty virulently anti-Catholic, regardless of whether you attribute that to racism or some other species of bigotry. It's still a deeply unpleasant organisation devoted to perpetuating a divide between Christians of different traditions. Incidentally, trouty, I'm not sure playing the organisational equivalent of "I've got loads of black friends" card does your argument any favours.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Can we tone it down a bit please.

Doublethink
Purgatory Host

[ 20. September 2013, 21:44: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

Posted by LQ (# 11596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by trouty:
if it was, why are so many non-whites in the OO in Liverpool?

In fairness, there is an active Mohawk lodge (there used to be a video of them marching in Ulster, but it seems to have vanished from the intertubes).

Last year, I was one half of a two-man counter-demonstration at the Toronto Twelfth parade. It's not what it used to be. It's some 60 years since Nathan Phillips, a Jew, broke the Orange monopoly on the mayor's chain.

Now, Newfoundland is a horse of another colour, and the Twelfth is still, astonishingly, a public holiday. Although federated with Canada since just after WWII, it is historically (and in living memory of some) a very different country - the only Dominion ever to relinquish self-government. Its remote location in effect preserved a Little Ireland, complete with imported conflicts. A friend is the daughter of a "mixed" marriage between a Newfoundland RC father and a Canadian Anglican mum, who might as well have been the devil incarnate to her in-laws in the beginning.

(Newfoundland also didn't have public schools until a constitutional amendment abolished the various denominational systems in the 1990s. This was necessary because the Terms of Union with Canada had guaranteed the rights of the churches to operate their own schools, largely to assuage the qualms of Orangemen about union with "French Catholic Canada").

[ 21. September 2013, 01:01: Message edited by: LQ ]

Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :

Being in the Western hemisphere it always gives me a bit of a start when i am reminded of things across the Atlantic which still stir such emotions. (But in fairness there are things that go on in this hemisphere about which folks from the other hemisphere might say the same.)

When i lived in Toronto there was an Orange Order lodge down the block from where i stayed, but i never saw any activity around it.

Posted by Bernard Mahler (# 10852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Peter Spence:
Good news, looking forward to seeing her in mitre and cope. Oops sorry it's the Church of Ireland, so no Romish vestments! .

I recall the CI Archbishop of Armagh thus dolled up when HM the Queen doled out the Maundy money some years back.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
Being in the Western hemisphere it always gives me a bit of a start when i am reminded of things across the Atlantic which still stir such emotions. (But in fairness there are things that go on in this hemisphere about which folks from the other hemisphere might say the same.)

Please forgive me indulging my pedantry by pointing out that the whole of the island of Ireland is in the Western hemisphere.

Posted by malik3000 (# 11437) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:

quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
Being in the Western hemisphere it always gives me a bit of a start when i am reminded of things across the Atlantic which still stir such emotions. (But in fairness there are things that go on in this hemisphere about which folks from the other hemisphere might say the same.)

Please forgive me indulging my pedantry by pointing out that the whole of the island of Ireland is in the Western hemisphere.

Pedantry is no problem; personally I veer between pedantry and sloppiness. I stand corrected, geographically speaking. Actually I was thinking (sloppily) in terms of the whole clump of the Eurasian and African continents (and outlying islands) as being one hemisphere and the whole clump of American continents as being the other hemisphere. Am I correct in my understanding that actually "hemi" means half, and meridian 0 is the dividing line between hemispheres?

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Posted by Peter Spence:

quote:

Good news, looking forward to seeing her in mitre and cope. Oops sorry it's the Church of Ireland, so no Romish vestments! Any idea that this somehow establishes the CoI's 'liberal' credentials should be tempered with the fact that they have yet to completely dissociate themselves from the right-wing Orange Order -many of their ministers remain Orange chaplains- and they still have anti-catholic canon laws in place. They continue to be Unionism at prayer, although in fairness Anglicans in the Republic tend to be a bit more tolerant. Good luck to her.

There is no canon against the wearing of cope and mitre. The church isn't under the pretence of establishing 'liberal credentials' - it tends to be largely middling/conservative. I know of only three CofI priests who are Orange Order Chaplians. 'Many' would seem to be a slight stretch of the truth, and of the three I know, 'many' of them are in it to temper it from within (not something I personally favour, but I appreciate what they are at). Some churches have also dissociated themselves from pretty much all of the political wranglings of the North, some have cut links with the Orange Order and the Bishop's and Archbishop's continue to unilaterally and publicly condemn acts of violence and sectarianism (although personally I think the church could do a lot more and largely fails on this front within local communities). And lastly, I don't think I'd ever describe the CofI as Unionism at Prayer. Part of the political and social mess in the North is that people from the same communities believe and think different things (have done for some time), leading to a sense of the erosion of social, political and religious identity which unfortunately has led to the eruption of violence in an attempt to get back to the old divisions in society - which were truly terrible at their height, but clearly still provide some sense of false security for some.

None of which has anything to do with the election of Pat Storey of course. She was considered to be the best person for the post after a very difficult and badly botched election earlier. I wish her every blessing in her post, and she will need the blessings of God being a woman in a formerly all male world. Thankfully she is no walk over and she will need that strength to bring balance and sense to what has been an ego filled bench with much testosterone fueled posturing of late.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
There is no canon against the wearing of cope and mitre.

Ity's the chasubles they don't like

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
There is no canon against the wearing of cope and mitre.
Ity's the chasubles they don't like

My impression is that chasubles are not as rare in the C of I as in the diocese of Sydney.

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

posted by Leo:

quote:

Ity's the chasubles they don't like

...or suit and tie! But it's a mistake to assume that it is something 'anti-Catholic'. It is in fact more 'anti-Presbyterian' than anything else, particularly when you read it in the context of the other canons. The rise of the dissenters and the thought that all might be equal under God sent a shudder down the spine of those Victorian Episcopalians. But of course there are other factors too; like the fact there was a feeling after disestablishment that you shouldn't 'mess' with the canons - especially at a time when the evangelical wing of the CofI at least felt it was in the ascendancy.

Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :

The reaction in Ireland has been so low key to be practically non existent. Twenty odd years of women in the Anglican priesthood and wider ministry, including catechists and other ministries in Roman Catholic parishes has meant that the vast majority here haven't thought that the sky has fallen in. Instead opening the Episcopate to women as the CoI did years ago, looks pretty normal to me and many others. No ex-equines cantering on this side of the Irish Sea [Smile]

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