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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Church activities
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
The thread on fundraising galas prompts me to bring this up.
The church I attend, like many, has a busy schedule of events: Family Fun Night, golf outings, a Golden Years group, a book group, "Learn to Love Your Laptop", a men's breakfast, a sewing group, women's circles, an ice-cream social and more. Unlike the galas, these are not especially expensive events.
To some extent, I think it's good that they have all of this stuff going on--build and maintain a sense of community--but I either do not want to or cannot participate in these activities. Some of these are definitely aimed at families and some are scheduled at times on weekdays when many of us are at work (and so are more or less aimed at retired people). I work for a living, I live alone, I have no relatives in this town and I don't play golf. Many of the church's events seem to be built around food, and often it is food I should not eat. The events seem to be aimed at other people, not me.
I suspect that in various congregations there may be people like me who hear about all these events, cannot or do not participate and feel more isolated. Am I right? Does this have the potential to drive away people who are less stubborn than I am?
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Many of the church's events seem to be built around food, and often it is food I should not eat.
Just thinking: the church is kind of based on sharing bread and wine (and fish?). Each (all three) of those is problematic for some people now, but was probably intended as a way of bringing people together... as are most church shared meals, I guess. Perhaps more than church communions...
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
The problem with churches is that events need organisers. And people usually organise things that they are at least half interested in already. I guess if you don't like what is already on offer, you would be perfectly free to organise an alternative event for those like yourself to attend.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
One of the core problems I have with the church organising its own community stuff ifs that they are mainly for the church members. Why does the church not put its energy into organising things that non-church people would like? Doing things for the "community", meaning the local area, not the often very cliquey church community?
I know a lot of these are things that "you can invite your friends to", but really, who would want to? Why not do things in the community that you could invite your church people to? Or find out what is going on anyway, and go to the community organised events.
Otherwise it ends up as a society, not just a community, even more isolated form the locality, because it does everything itself.
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Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Churches have been very good at some of this eg. mother and toddler groups, so it should be possible. The church I grew up in, for example, had a hugely successful retirement club which was well attended by members of the community not at all connected with the church. It was run by the vicar and his wife.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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OddJob
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# 17591
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Posted
The problem is that themed social events probably SHOULD be organised, but one size never will fit all. Some of us struggle to find a size that does fit - especially if we don't drink coffee. The church would probably welcome any suggestions you may wish to make about themes that you and perhaps others may enjoy.
Posts: 97 | From: West Midlands | Registered: Mar 2013
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
When it comes to church activities you find all sorts of things going on depending on the resources and manpower of a particular church, and on the particular goals they have. The idea that every church should try to provide social activities for the community isn't realistic, but all churches should try to serve their communities in some way.
I agree that if you want your church to run activities that you'd like to participate in then you should be prepared to organise or help to organise something yourself. I think this is a reasonable expectation. The minister at my old church used to say that he wouldn't spend his time organising the congregation's social life. That was their job! Unfortunately, too many churchgoers want to sit back and let other people organise stuff - and then grumble if it's not to their liking!!
Churches should be cautious about spending too much time organising purely social things, though. Apparently the Edwardian churches were very keen on running all sorts of clubs, but this ended up sapping energy from the churches, diverting manpower and energy from evangelism and spiritual development.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Belle Ringer
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# 13379
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Posted
I was in a church that structured groups by demographics. i didn't fit any of the demographics - too young for the "over 65" group, too single for the couples group, to childless for the family groups. I proposed that I start a supper gathering open to all and was told by the pastor "I forbid you to do that" because some might prefer it to the existing groups and he wanted to protect those groups.
After I changed church, in 6 months I had more church friends than in the previous church in 4 years at least partly because all groups are open to all (except I think one is a women only pray group).
My experience is, when there are lots of activities but none attractive to you, after while you realize these are apparently not people who have any interests in common with you. If that doesn't matter, fine; if you were looking to develop church friendships, it won't happen, you give up that goal or leave to pursue it where there is possibility.
No they don't always welcome you starting the kind of group you would like - your idea has to fit in with their self-concept of that church, and not be perceived as threatening to distract people or other assets away from any existing groups.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Galloping Granny
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# 13814
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Posted
Looking back over 45 or so years in our church, I recall that every successful venture began not with a committee saying 'we ought to have...' but with someone saying, in effect 'I'd like to start...' A pediatric nurse had a drop-in morning for new and isolated mothers and called it the Mushroom Group; the Caring Group for mostly elderly and no longer very skilful folk to make things from old woollen garments and such-like, who provided gifts for prisoners to give their children at Christmas; the Small Change Club for men who'd retired or were otherwise unemployed & whose monthly lunches were made by the host (or at least the wife was banished when the guys arrived); the monthly Cafe Church which was hugely successful but took so many people so much time to organise effectively that it lasted two years.
Some lasted a few years; Caring Group is still going strong.
If you have a vision, run with it!
The sharing of food is a characteristic Christian function. 'Companions' are literally people who break bread together, often informally. In a small town where I visit often, someone suggested offering a weekly free dinner. Though the Old Brigade are rather shocked, upward of 150 are attending, the poor and the lonely that the OB didn't believe existed in their town. The minister tells me quote:
Monday night dinners continue to meet great need and gather new helpers – most of them very vulnerable people who are gaining self-esteem and confidence
, and in her they find someone to talk to, and some ask for a bible or turn up unexpectedly at church.
Now that's outreach based on the vision of a couple of members who'd known hard times themselves.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
There is a big gap between 'nothing that interests me' when you can see if anyone else might be up for what you are interested in; and Belle Ringer's example of being forbidden to do any new thing.
In the first case it is simply that people naturally gather around shared interests or shared circumstances, you can start your own non-food based 'not fit in anywhere else' group. Not sure the 'introverts united' social outing will be well attended mind you ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
In the case of the 'forbidden' church ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) well dust off feet as soon as possible.
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Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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the giant cheeseburger
Shipmate
# 10942
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
In the case of the 'forbidden' church well dust off feet as soon as possible.
A more critical reading of Belle Ringer's "forbidden" example, maybe through the filter of her posts about the many issues with all the dysfunctional churches she's stumbled across over the last five years, is required before this conclusion (or otherwise) can be reached.
A lot of the time it is entirely appropriate for the senior leadership to deny a request for new programs to be started. A program being done in the church's name is something that should be considered seriously so appropriate accountability and oversight structures are in place before things begin, not something you just let any old person start charging ahead with because they feel like it. That particularly applies when the person proposing that the church endorse and fund their pet idea has recently arrived from another church without a letter of commendation and hasn't spent a sustained period of time serving with excellence and humility, the pastor might not feel that person is ready for a major leadership position where they act in the church's name.
Most people will respectfully listen to the pastor when their request is denied first, and if applicable work to resolve a way it could be done if there are holes in the proposal. Others won't listen and will need to be told again in more clear terms, and if they are too emotionally attached to their idea or have some kind of disorder that impairs socialisation and communication this could be interpreted as being a blunt "forbidding."
[ 29. September 2013, 12:58: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
A lot of the time it is entirely appropriate for the senior leadership to deny a request for new programs to be started. A program being done in the church's name is something that should be considered seriously so appropriate accountability and oversight structures are in place before things begin, not something you just let any old person start charging ahead with because they feel like it. That particularly applies when the person proposing that the church endorse and fund their pet idea has recently arrived from another church without a letter of commendation and hasn't spent a sustained period of time serving with excellence and humility, the pastor might not feel that person is ready for a major leadership position where they act in the church's name.
Surely it depends on what kinds of activities we're talking about and what purpose they're meant to have. A purely social group designed to bring church singles together isn't the same as a church Bible study or a theological discussion group designed for anyone in the community to attend.
IME setting up something new can be seen by other church members as competing with a similar activity that they've invested their church identity in. An established lay leader might see a new group leadership role as an attempt to undermine their own influence in the church. The problems are exacerbated if there's a difference in age or ethnicity, etc. between the two group leaders or their constituencies.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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S. Bacchus
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# 17778
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Some Christians don't seem to have any friends who are non-Christians.
Which would be an astonishing feat for anyone living in the UK. Akin to not having any friends who weren't vegans or philatelists. Christianity is hardly a mainstream interest.
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Posts: 260 | Registered: Jul 2013
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
These…
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
A purely social group designed to bring church singles together…
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
join a bride club with a mixture of people instead of a church bridge club,…
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Some Christians don't seem to have any friends who are non-Christians.
Which would be an astonishing feat for anyone living in the UK. Akin to not having any friends who weren't vegans or philatelists. Christianity is hardly a mainstream interest.
Acquaintances and work colleagues may not be Christians, but it's easy to end up with all your close friends being church folk. If you spend a lot of time on church activities that's to be expected.
I try to keep in touch with old uni friends, etc. but in terms of the folk I see the most of now, they're people I know from church. Evangelistic churches have found that it becomes difficult to engage in 'friendship evangelism' if all your friends are already Christians. Alpha courses apparently end up with this problem eventually; it's not easy to attract complete strangers, but there's a limit to how many friends, family members and people on the fringes of church life that churchgoers know and can therefore encourage to attend.
[ 29. September 2013, 15:04: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
In our rural parish the church is the only building with the size (and heating) to hold large events, so we have the lot. Some are organised by people from church, but only because they happen to be members of the congregation.
This month, for example, we have had an art exhibition (percentage of sales to church), a concert in aid of MacMillan Cancer Care, a Ride & Stride (historic churches trust); next month is harvest when we'll have a eucharist in the morning and an evening service when all the local farmers bring some of their own produce to the altar - the local school will contribute a song.
We haven't hosted a sports event (yet) but other than that we try to be the venue for everything and everyone - with or without organisation by someone from church.
It works because the building is seen as being for the whole village and so they come at Christmas (of course) but we also get a full house at Easter, Harvest, Patronal, etc.
And the churchyard working group has members who rarely, if ever, darken the doors but who like to know they're doing their bit to keep God's acre tidy.
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Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Some Christians don't seem to have any friends who are non-Christians.
Which would be an astonishing feat for anyone living in the UK. Akin to not having any friends who weren't vegans or philatelists. Christianity is hardly a mainstream interest.
Acquaintances and work colleagues may not be Christians, but it's easy to end up with all your close friends being church folk. If you spend a lot of time on church activities that's to be expected.
I try to keep in touch with old uni friends, etc. but in terms of the folk I see the most of now, they're people I know from church. Evangelistic churches have found that it becomes difficult to engage in 'friendship evangelism' if all your friends are already Christians. Alpha courses apparently end up with this problem eventually; it's not easy to attract complete strangers, but there's a limit to how many friends, family members and people on the fringes of church life that churchgoers know and can therefore encourage to attend.
My point entirely.
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by S. Bacchus:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Some Christians don't seem to have any friends who are non-Christians.
Which would be an astonishing feat for anyone living in the UK. Akin to not having any friends who weren't vegans or philatelists. Christianity is hardly a mainstream interest.
So how many vegans and philatelists have you brought to Christ, perhaps through the medium of Solemn Benediction?
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
leo
It's quite difficult, really. Many adults don't have a great deal of time for socialising anyway, or else they don't have the money for it. And people don't pop in and out of each other's houses the way they do in soap operas.
Maybe British Christians should try to be much more open and welcoming than the culture around them, but that's easier said that done. We like to think our churches are welcoming, but we're usually much more reserved when it comes to our homes. That tendency is probably exacerbated by modern life.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
quote:
And people don't pop in and out of each other's houses the way they do in soap operas
But they do in many church circles, interest groups meet in each others houses which makes it very difficult for newcomers to join in. They might be fine with new faces popping in on spec but to me eschewing the church hall and meeting at a different house each time says they have a group they are comfortable with and you really have to be invited to join in.
I got into hot water at one church when I started a local history group only to find one had been in existence for several years. It met in a certain persons house and all I had to do was to ask in order to join. Well, that and use my crystal ball to learn about it in the first place.
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Some people in some churches do that, but not everywhere! Perhaps in more homogeneous, fairly close-knit communities it's more likely.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I suspect that in various congregations there may be people like me who hear about all these events, cannot or do not participate and feel more isolated. Am I right? Does this have the potential to drive away people who are less stubborn than I am?
I have young children. Our church offers what it calls "activities for young families" but what it means is that it offers bible studies aimed at parents, with all the children plonked in front of some Disney pap in the next room.
So I don't go. I spend enough time away from my children as it is - I don't need to spend more of their waking hours with them in the next room watching Disney.
It doesn't drive me away from church, but it does mean that I'm less involved than I might be, because I'm not in the clique of parents who do do those things.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Recently I've come across church groups which meet online (setting up Facebook pages) - that might be a good recommendation for someone unable to get out in the evenings or who is not very outgoing.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
One of the core problems I have with the church organising its own community stuff ifs that they are mainly for the church members. Why does the church not put its energy into organising things that non-church people would like? Doing things for the "community", meaning the local area, not the often very cliquey church community?
I know a lot of these are things that "you can invite your friends to", but really, who would want to? Why not do things in the community that you could invite your church people to? Or find out what is going on anyway, and go to the community organised events.
Otherwise it ends up as a society, not just a community, even more isolated form the locality, because it does everything itself.
That's actually a really great idea.
Ideally, a church could do a combination of all these things - sponsor activities for its internal community (church members), sponsor activities for the local community (folks outside the church or Church), and have members participate in events and activities outside the church.
I've seen some of this in various churches.
In the church where I grew up, we had a potluck social every time there was a 5th Sunday in a month (which helped keep it from becoming burdensome, and ensured a good attendance). Often these included talent shows or skits/performances by whoever signed up to do them. I have very fond memories of these being a lot of fun, and a good way to bind the community together. And with a potluck, anyone with special dietary issues can at least bring a dish they can eat! People should be asked to clearly label the food they bring, and to identify common allergens.
My home church in Detroit is along the path of an annual fund-raising race for a local cancer research organization. Every year, members staff tables with water for the runners, and we also offer healing prayer, so people running, if they'd like to stop, or anyone in the community, can ask for prayer for themselves or a loved one. It's a great way for the church to do what the Church is called to do! Also, organizing teams from the church in events like that seems like a no-brainer.
Where I am now, we hold lots of events for the wider community. We host various interfaith events and services; we offer yoga inside the church on Tuesday evenings; we have a "forum" every Sunday where some person of interest to the community is interviewed, and it's not always or necessarily a religious figure (e.g., a couple years ago we had Jane Lynch, an actor on "Glee"). Some churches might be uncomfortable hosting interfaith services or inviting people with yoga mats into the sanctuary, but we're perfectly comfortable with it.
Churches can also do things together with other churches nearby. My church back home did that occasionally, like when we joined with other churches to take an Underground Railroad tour (Detroit was one of the major last stops before Canada). I don't know which church initiated it, but having several churches invite their members to join the tour meant we had a good-sized group, and everyone got to meet new people while enjoying one of the local cultural opportunities. We've also done outings to the art museum that's a block away from the church. One of my favorites was a trip to a local foundry, the one that made the tiles on our floor. First, we toured the church and learned all about the tiles, then we went and toured the foundry.
It occurs to me that a large enough church could have someone either on staff (probably part-time) or a volunteer who could serve as a cultural ambassador or something similar, to plan events & activities like that, and/or coordinate volunteers who do so.
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Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Our way of trying to foster whole community events/meetings is to offer the church as a venue free of charge if no money is being taken/admission being charged, and only charging for heat & light if subscriptions are paid/admission charged. Our small hall has loos which increases the scope for activities there.
So the range we cover is twice-weekly lunch club (nominal cost, no age limits); community transport (M-F fixed schedule to hospital outpatients/ doctor or dentist surgery/ choice of 2 supermarkets); afternoon activity club for over 40s (so, unlike MU and WI not female specific); rambling/walking club; exercise & Tai Chi classes; etc.
All of these activities are seen as being village rather than church, although it is obvious that church is either the host or the driving force behind most. But the result is that the church is also seen as a community resource and so receives widespread support.
There are specific church activities, but since these are advertised in the magazine - which is delivered to every house in the parish - and are open to all we get non-churchgoers even at events which at first glance seem to be "church".
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Ooops - hit the wrong button...
to summarise
Having asked a familiar face at events who is not a regular worshipper how come the church gets so much village support I got the following answer:
"There's no religion being rammed down your throat. We all know who the Vicar is and we know who in the village goes to church regularly but, even when things are happening in the church, we feel comfortable because we're not being told we should come to services. And with things like Harvest and Christmas we don't feel like we're second-class: our kids get to be in the nativity just like them that go to Sunday School. No Vicar has ever said no to a christening. And when someone dies the Vicar is the first to be there and there's always people from the church at the funeral, and in touch after. That's why we look after the church, because its ours; it belongs to the whole village and we feel welcome. People at church don't bang on about believing but you're all decent people who make us feel we matter."
In other words - deeds, not words: I think it used to be called "practical Christianity"?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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