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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: On the Wearing of Clericals
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Do any of you who regularly wear clericals have spouses who don't like them? Or maybe they're ok with them when "on duty", but don't like them for "off duty" dress occasions? Have you pulled out your clergy shirt to wear to a funeral (one that you're attending, but have no leadership role in), and your spouse ask you to wear a tie instead? How do/would you handle that?
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
This doesn't seem like Eccles material - to clarify, Barefoot Friar, you are asking about personal issues relating to use of clerical garb outside of worship?
Given that you are looking for personal advice, I think All Saints is the best place, so hold on to your hats! ( or birretas)
dj_ordinaire, Eccles host
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
If the question is directed at women as well as men (not worn a tie since school) then it depends if I'm in role or not. I didn't wear clericals at my father in law's funeral or burial of ashes as I was there to support my husband and children. My husband is fine with it although it takes longer to get out of the house in mufti as I have to work out what goes with what rather than the security of workwear which is just one colour!
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Not a cleric nor married to one, but I suspect nothing is more off-putting to those outside the Church than clerical garb. Its ridiculous. Maybe some women get off on the sight of a man in clericals (all perversions are catered for in the church, it seems). Women look particularly daft in them.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
...all perversions are catered for in the church...
Oh that this were true!
* * * *
I think clericals can be very useful as a badge of office although they can also be a shield to hide behind - I think it depends very much on the individual.
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
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What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Or Corporate Dress as we say nowadays.
Time was, everyone dressed the part for their job or profession or station in life. Clothes were an important signifier. There were tensions, particularly in the area of social aspiration, hence sumptuary laws.
But in our modern, democratic, stretch fabric world, the ossified elements - cassocks, gowns, wigs, robes - of various groups have become incongruous.
The options seem to either be to soften towards a version of the uniform which is nearer to 'ordinary' clothes or - my preferred option - go for it in spades with extra gold tassels.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
I have to temper my ontological imperative on occasion for the sake of mutual relations. But mostly I am a priest by calling and vocation, so I will dress like one.
Apparently I am a husband too, sigh.
Family BBQ civies. Most everything else clericals. (though clericals are not ALWAYS the right thing)
My wife wants it to be a job so that boundaries are clear, I want it to be a vocation.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
My wife wants it to be a job so that boundaries are clear, I want it to be a vocation.
Thank you for this neat summary of the dilemma I have faced for more than thirty years.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
My daughter is a nurse by calling and vocation. She has known she is a nurse since age 4. She is always a nurse but she doesn't wear her uniform when, for example, visiting a relative in hospital or care home.
Unless that relative was in her professional care when she was on duty.
Being ordained within a church system is just one expression of the vocation of all Christians. It can require wearing a particular uniform while on duty but wanting to wear it at private occasions with no official role seems odd to me.
Wasn't there a Trollope character whose wife had to call him by his church title even in bed? An Archdeacon I think.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
sorry, posted via quote rather than edit.
Was trying to add, that she wouldn't wear her uniform taking the children to the park, but might if she was dropping them off at school and didn't have time to go home and change.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
And yet I am called to the whole parish, all the time, a visible presence. I knew what I was doing. The question is not how I become less visible but how all Christians become more visible.
Your daughter may not wish people to stop her in the Co-Op and ask medical advice. I am happy to be stopped anywhere to talk about God.
Fly Safe, Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
My immediate reaction to that is that if priests were less visible, then other Christians might be able to become more visible.
Maybe every Christian who is happy to be stopped anywhere whatever they are doing and asked about God should be able to wear clericals ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
My daughter frequently finds herself in the middle of some medical emergency when off duty and out of uniform, most recently at a road accident, and then she does what she can do as a medical professionals until the professionals on duty arrive.
[ 02. September 2013, 08:30: Message edited by: Thyme ]
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Deleted the duplicate for you.
Archdeacon and Mrs Grantly. I don't think she 'had' to call him that; addressing your spouse formally was conventional enough in that era.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
Thank you! Regarding the Trollopian Archdeacon, yes, you are right, but as someone mentioned earlier, it is a good thing that we have moved on from that convention.
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Are we not back to the clergy/laity divide thingy.
Clerical garb seems to be restricted to those churches which divide clergy from laity. Dressis a means of emphasising the divide.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
I don't have a spouse to express a view but there is still a balance to work out.
Recently I attended the funeral of the mum of key lay person in our circuit. The clerical staff had got to know the mum as meetings were held at her house where her daughter was caring for her.
So I knew mum through role as minister and was representing my role as well as myself so went in the collar, my colleagues, except the one leading, didn't.
I attended the ordination service of friends, and didn't wear the collar although I noted some not involved in the action did.
I wear the collar for formal occasions on duty, when it would be useful for people to know/identify me by role and when I have been to or going to one of the above.
I find it strange to attend an all ministers meeting and people come in collars - we know we are all ministers as that's why we are here.
I know I am a minister as a vocation regardless what I wear. And in a rural area I am recognised in the community anyway.
On the other hand I have not seen the local vicar without her collar. And that is part of who she is as much as my mixed approach is part of my personality and identity as minister and human being.
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Are we not back to the clergy/laity divide thingy.
No, I am ordained my wife is not. (Stop trying to make a pastoral thread into a huge issue). Division is only created by those who enjoy creating division. We are all equal we are not all the same. We are not all the same parts of the body of Christ.
quote:
Clerical garb seems to be restricted to those churches which divide clergy from laity. Dressis a means of emphasising the divide.
So that would be the vast majority then, sigh.
And to be clear, wearing clericals is not THE ANSWER, I was asked my opinion I gave it, I qualified it. Again I recognise is faults.
Though I will never forget walking down our High Street with my Baptist minister friend and him noting in a slightly surprised voice that "everyone seems to know you." Being a good soul I did not pull a face and go "DUHHHH!"
Arguments about the priesthood of all, the ministry of all inherent in our baptism and the calling of all are to be had. I have explored my calling and am comfortable in it. Some it seems are not.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Sometimes it not even about clericals. I am called to mind of a dinner with a clerical friend. He was in civilian clothes. I, on the other hand, while still in civvies, was wearing a rather nice purple shirt with a rather nice cross over it. Someone turned to us, and commented that one of us was a cleric. My clerical friend said "Why yes, how did you know?" and he replied that the purple shirt and cross were a dead giveaway. I was quite chuffed. Good thing I wasn't wearing my all white outfit. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Please note that no names have been mentioned to spare blushes. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Neither a cleric myself, nor married to one, but I've heard enough stories of valuable pastoral encounters that priets have had in passing with taxi drivers/ people in shops/ etc because they were recognised as clerics by their dress, to believe that distinctive clerical street garb is in general a good thing. Pyx_e is as wise on this point as he is on pretty much everything else.
BTW when Ken Leech was curate of St Anne's Soho in the 60s and spent a lot of time in all-night coffee bars, he found that wearing his collar was actually an ice-breaker becuase people would be curious to know whether he was a 'real vicar'.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I was in a diocese whose standing order # 102 stated of synod "clergy to wear clericals". I asked for a definition thereof in the light of the archbishop's penchant for bappo collar and tie.
I am not normally in agreement with the archbishop of Sydney, but on this occasion, where the synod did not vote in houses (except at an electoral synod) a silly piece of plastic made F8ck all difference to proceedings. When we did have an electoral synod I wore said silly piece of plastic, and made one speech - to shaft the guy whose silly rule it was.
Ironically and hypocritically in my forthcoming appointment I have accepted the bishop's demand that I wear a collar whenever I am on duty. I will. Though I'm not sure if I'm on duty when in bed with kuruman.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Clerics in my family (of both sexes) have adopted a code: - own parish - wear clerical
- but if in parish and off-duty it can be non-black
- out of parish at a church event - wear clerical
- out of parish at family event - wear mufti unless asked to 'perform'
- ALWAYS when flying alone - more likely to be up-graded
So, own child's wedding in your own parish - clerical morning dress. Funeral of nephew or niece elsewhere - shirt and tie.
If you're surprised at the last, so was I until I flew with clerical uncle, father and obviously pregnant female cousin: the chaps were offered upgrades, not me and pregnant cousin.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
Thank you all for the input. Pyx_e and L'Organist especially. After this current event is over I'm going to discuss it with her and work something out we can both agree to.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
BTW when Ken Leech was curate of St Anne's Soho in the 60s and spent a lot of time in all-night coffee bars, he found that wearing his collar was actually an ice-breaker becuase people would be curious to know whether he was a 'real vicar'.
Though Fr Leech is on record more recently as not seeing the point of clericals and never (or very rarely) wearing them.
It might be just a personality quirk on my part, but just as I find officiating in worship without any sort of clerical vesture uncomfortable, because it draws attention to myself, I feel uncomfortable in a clerical collar outside of very specific church contexts for the same reason. Paradoxical I know.
Now I'm retired I hardly ever wear a collar. But even in parish ministry I frequently didn't, and I have never had eyebrows raised when I introduced myself as 'the vicar'. I'm not sure that people noticed. I admire priests like Pyx_e who can cope with being the public face of the church in streets and supermarkets, but I don't think it is the only way to be a priest or to have an effective ministry.
But to pick up one of the points in the OP, when I attend funerals even without officiating I will tend to wear a black suit and dog collar, at least among people who know me to be a priest. Mainly because they might think I was pretending not to be, but also because I have very few other formal clothes.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I wear clericals. My husband has no objection. He might object to being turfed out of the sitting room for a meeting, the constant ring of the telephone, or my spending too much time with other people and not enough with him. But he doesn't object to the clericals. I find them useful for the same reasons as Pyx_e does, and my parishioners concur.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Not a cleric nor married to one, but I suspect nothing is more off-putting to those outside the Church than clerical garb. Its ridiculous. Maybe some women get off on the sight of a man in clericals (all perversions are catered for in the church, it seems). Women look particularly daft in them.
Why does an ordinary shirt (or indeed t-shirt nowadays), usually black, with a small white tab look so ridiculous? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) Are you thinking of vestments? Even a cassock doesn't look that strange, not that you see many clergy wearing them as streetwear outside of church functions. Many female clergy just wear a clerical dickey underneath ordinary women's clothes.
And I can assure you that people outside the church really don't care about them - there are many, many more things that puts them off church.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Sorry Jade, I just think it all looks ridiculous, men or women. Particularly women, probably because it's still a bit unusual to see a women cleric (please don't start a feminist rant at me, I am sure the women clerics are every bit as good, or better than the men, and the more of them the better I say)
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Sorry Jade, I just think it all looks ridiculous, men or women. Particularly women, probably because it's still a bit unusual to see a women cleric (please don't start a feminist rant at me, I am sure the women clerics are every bit as good, or better than the men, and the more of them the better I say)
Lol.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I'm not going to start a feminist rant at you (Why would I? It isn't the place to discuss women in the clergy, that being Dead Horses, and you've made it plain that you support female clergy anyway). I see lots of female clergy but that might be a location thing - they tend to be in MOTR-to-high Anglican churches. I'm just puzzled as to why an ordinary shirt with a small white tab looks so strange and ridiculous! I just can't grasp what the tab changes so much - I'm guessing that you wouldn't think that men and women in plain black ordinary shirts look ridiculous. I do think that clergy should have a 'uniform' that helps people know who they are and clerical shirts do that - but the actual difference between a black clergy shirt and a black ordinary shirt is very small. If you're talking about garish coloured clerical shirts, I am with you all the way though Black only please, or blue for hospital chaplains (looks less forbidding). Evos can keep their pastel blue and stripes.
Vestments can indeed look ridiculous (especially very personalised ones) but they are not worn as streetwear.
Re the OP, L'Organist's solution sounds very sensible.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Why is it necessary for a cleric to tell the world what s/he does by wearing special clothing? (Can I use she to embrace both sexes without being called to hell?)Either people know that she is the vicar/priest/minister or she can do what everyone else does and introduce herself as vicar etc if that is relevant to the interaction.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
For the same reason that other jobs have uniforms.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
There are certainly some jobs where it is useful to be able to identify a person as being the holder of a position.For example, when my father was dying in hospital over 8 weeks earlier this year, it was very difficult to distinguish the doctors on the unit from eg others visitors, physiotherapists etc because they no longer wear white coats. Some staff wear name badges identifying themselves (although this does not seem to be universal, at least in the hospital where my father was) but it was not always easy to read the name badge without my reading glasses on. In other circumstances, I can see where a uiform is necessary eg paramedic, fire fighter, police officer. Presumably at church services/functions almost everyone knows who the cleric(s) are (any visitors can work this out during the course of the service/event, or ask someone if they really need to know). Outside the church building, why is it necessary to readily identify a cleric? In the event of a street/public place tragedy (eg someone collapsing on the point of death), presumably a passing cleric would stop to help as would anyone else and might well identify herself as vicar of St Shiptus or wherever. Presumably though the passing cleric would not impose her ministrations on the dying person without a specific request from that person or from someone else close to the dying person. I cannot envisage any emergency situation where it would be necessary to identify a cleric with the same degree of urgency as would apply to eg a paramedic.
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
would love to belong
You've shot yourself in the foot: ANYONE could quote:
... identify herself as vicar of St Shiptus or wherever...
but without the clerical collar how to know?
As Jade said, uniform can be useful.
What exactly have you against clerical uniform?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
BTW when Ken Leech was curate of St Anne's Soho in the 60s and spent a lot of time in all-night coffee bars, he found that wearing his collar was actually an ice-breaker becuase people would be curious to know whether he was a 'real vicar'.
Though Fr Leech is on record more recently as not seeing the point of clericals and never (or very rarely) wearing them.
True enough and I never saw him in them when I knew him slightly 20-odd years ago. But then he was not in parish ministry.
wltb: It all depends on your model of ministry and indeed of church, doesn't it? If it's primarily congregational, what you say may hold (although a Baptist minister once told me that he only wore clericals when not with his congregagtion, on the grounds that 'my flock know me' but others would not): if it's territorial, which is the CofE model (and that of some others), there's much more reason for wearing a uniform because not everyone to whom you might minister will know you.
[ 02. September 2013, 15:34: Message edited by: Albertus ]
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
And I am Grand Duke Alexei Nikolaievich
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Well, there might be a point in impersonating a Grand Duke (better table at a restaurant?. But why would anyone want to claim to be the vicar of St Shiptus when they aren't?
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
I can see that if one is lost and confused and would love to belong, the implicit claim of clericals--that here is someone who does belong (to this particular people) and is not too lost and confused to be of help to anyone in a particular parish--could be either comforting or (as in this case) really annoying.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Tonsure. Bring back tonsure. Then we can tell who the clergy are when they are at the beach too!
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by would love to belong:
Well, there might be a point in impersonating a Grand Duke (better table at a restaurant?. But why would anyone want to claim to be the vicar of St Shiptus when they aren't?
That's a bit of a red herring, isn't it? It's not so much about detecting impostors as about being able to detect the real thing, especially if you need her.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Tonsure. Bring back tonsure. Then we can tell who the clergy are when they are at the beach too!
Ah, but Celtic tonsure or Latin tonsure?
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
Would this tonsure thing work for female clerics? If not, it would surely be sexist (sorry if this comment should be on Dead Sheep)
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I've noticed that Anglican clergy wear their collars far more often than the Methodist clergy I'm familiar with. My last (Methodist) minister wore a collar on Sunday mornings, but rarely on other occasions. I suppose he wore it for pastoral visits.
The local Baptist church has an assistant pastor who doesn't wear a collar in church, but apparently wears it when he's out and about in the hope that it'll give rise to conversation!
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I don't see why women couldn't be tonsured - it's part of becoming a nun in Buddhism and Christian nuns usually have their hair cropped short. I don't think it was being seriously proposed though
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
On the other hands, if the female cleric has children at primary school it could be a useful way of ensuring she didn't get infested with their nits
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
Albertus I know CofE clergy who say the same thing – basically the more somebody knows them the less likely they are to wear clericals.
As I grew up around a CofE church we had an older vicar who wore clericals all the time, ok I never saw him on holiday, but otherwise rain or shine he wore clericals. We used to joke that he must have worn them in bed.
Wltb it’s not in the emergency situation that clericals are important as the visible uniform, it’s the other conversations and meetings which the collar starts, that are an important point of a CofE vicar wearing them for the times when s/he is out and about. I know clergy who say it often starts a conversation and it is also the familiar/reassuring uniform when knocking at strange doors.
A tangent but I used to be in parish with a strong RC base, the RC parishioners used to moan that the nuns didn’t wear the habits anymore, so they didn’t know who they were!!
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
Wltb it’s not in the emergency situation that clericals are important as the visible uniform, it’s the other conversations and meetings which the collar starts, that are an important point of a CofE vicar wearing them for the times when s/he is out and about. I know clergy who say it often starts a conversation and it is also the familiar/reassuring uniform when knocking at strange doors.
Absolutely right. Lots of (OK anecdotal) evidence for that.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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would love to belong
Shipmate
# 16747
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
Albertus I know CofE clergy who say the same thing – basically the more somebody knows them the less likely they are to wear clericals.
As I grew up around a CofE church we had an older vicar who wore clericals all the time, ok I never saw him on holiday, but otherwise rain or shine he wore clericals. We used to joke that he must have worn them in bed.
Wltb it’s not in the emergency situation that clericals are important as the visible uniform, it’s the other conversations and meetings which the collar starts, that are an important point of a CofE vicar wearing them for the times when s/he is out and about. I know clergy who say it often starts a conversation and it is also the familiar/reassuring uniform when knocking at strange doors.
A tangent but I used to be in parish with a strong RC base, the RC parishioners used to moan that the nuns didn’t wear the habits anymore, so they didn’t know who they were!!
quote:
what's strange about the doors in your neck of the woods then? Are they unhinged?
Posts: 331 | From: Lost and confused | Registered: Oct 2011
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
I am an NSM/SSM, and my paid job is a suit and tie job. I think the tie is even more ridiculous than the 'piece of plastic', but it is part of God's sense of humour that five days a week I wear a tie and at least one other day I wear a clerical collar...
I have worn clericals to the office, but it has always been a little uncomfortable as people don't really seem to know whether they're dealing with Mr RPM or Rev RPM (not too many clerics wander the corridors of government). Back home I wear clericals for services and for parish events: Mrs RPM tends to remind me to wear a collar for some more informal events when she thinks I should be visible as the curate. After some 8 years in this position, I'm still trying to find the right balance: in the meantime, I should probably stick to what my wife tells me!
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
I understand that when our bishop officiated at his daughter's wedding, he did so in full episcopal fig., then scuttled into the sacristy and emerged in a morning-coat to join the procession down the aisle.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
While I come from a liturgical background and would wear the collar while in seminary I hated it. I stopped wearing it towards the end of my second year of seminary. The funny thing of it was, I never got admonished for not wearing it. In fact, you could spot me in the graduating pictures of my seminary class--I was the only one wearing a tie, all the others had collars.
I think there is more to vocation than what I wear. Vocation is seen in what I am doing: caring for the poor, witnessing for my Lord; preaching, and the like. Vocation knows no boundaries, it is a part of living. What I wear is immaterial to what I do.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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