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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Visiting Rome
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
The Baths of Caracalla.
The catacombs of San Callisto.
The church of Santa Maria in Cosmedin.
Villa Borghese and its park: great view over to the Vatican.
The food!
Buses are more useful than the Metro but beware of pickpockets.
If you are an Anglican (or just an English-speaking Christian) you might like to sample All Saints (C of E) or St Paul's within the Walls (TEC). Both by the same architect (G E Street) but very different.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Masha
Shipmate
# 10098
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Posted
San Stefano Rotundo is lovely, as is Santa Prassede.
I think they were my favourites. San Stefano had nobody else in it at the height of summer and it's great. Santa Prassede has amazing colourful mosaics. Well worth seeking out.
Also, if you're fit go right to the top of St Peter's. The view is worth the steps.
Also, look at events on at the museums. I had a great night being shown around Mercato e Foro di Traiano. After a tour looking at the place by night we all ( lots of us from countries all over the world) sat round on benches sampling food from Roman recipes. It was brilliant.
Also, also: look round the Roman Forum. It's fantastic. Tere are some painting still on walls and all sorts of brilliant things to see.
Had an amazing meal in a beautiful restaurant that I'm happy to recommend but I don't know if it counts as advertising so pm me!
Can you tell I love the place?!
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I think it helps to know what you're looking for. I was interested in art, mostly paintings but also statues. So I went to several churches for the paintings rather than for the architecture. On the other hand, we didn't go into the Forum or Colosseum. (It was very hot when we went and we preferred to be indoors.)
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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moonlitdoor
Shipmate
# 11707
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Posted
There's been a lot of enthusiasm for catholic Rome here, so let me stick in a word for classical Rome. I love the Palatine hill, the Capitoline museum, the forum and arch of Trajan, the baths of Caracalla which Angloid recommended. They tend to be a bit quieter in my experience too. You can call me a philistine but St Peter's does nothing for me, though Bernini's colonnade in the square is stunning. The church I liked was Santa Maria Trastevere.
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We've evolved to being strange monkeys, but in the next life he'll help us be something more worthwhile - Gwai
Posts: 2210 | From: london | Registered: Aug 2006
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
After some discussion backstage, we've decided this thread is more All Saintsy than Heavenly, so fasten your seatbelts and Romanes are eunt novus domus (Romans are going to a new home).
Ariel
Heaven Host
Ouch!!! Romani in nouum domum eunt (or even better transeunt), if you please!
Hosts may be above reproach, but your attempt at Latin most certainly is not ... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 18. September 2013, 20:52: Message edited by: Metapelagius ]
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
Posts: 1032 | From: Hereabouts | Registered: May 2005
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
Not long back from my third trip in four years - we'll be going back pretty regularly for the rest of our lives, we hope. That's how much we love it. But then, we're papes.
My don't miss recommendations are the Campo de' Fiori (real Roman fruit & veg market with excellent eateries around), the Piazza Navona (one of the nicest squares anywhere in the world), nearby S. Ivo's (understated Borromini masterpiece - but almost never open...), and a climb up and along the Gianicolo/Janiculum hill ending with a trip to S. Maria in Trastevere.
That do for starters? The great thing about Rome is that there is not just one, concentrated "historic centre" - "old" Rome just goes on and on and it's pretty much all "real". I bet you'll love it.
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
It costs a fortune (about Ł90 each, I believe) but if you can possibly afford it, book an after-hours small-group tour of the Sistine Chapel. There is no comparison to the experience of the awful crowds earlier in the day. Make it a once-in-a-lifetime experience!
Take a walk through the streets at night - the Piazza Navona and the Trevi Fountain are particularly beautiful then.
Perhaps my favourite place in all Rome is St-Paul's-Outside-The-Walls Basilica. It is more modern than the others - rebuilt in the mid-19th century after a fire burned the old one - and it is stunning. I love the sense of space, the alabaster windows, and the amazing malachite altars.
And I second Moonlitdoor's recommendation of the Palatine Hill - it really is lovely, and kind of lifts you up and out of the crowds. You can get a combined ticket for that, the Colosseum, and the Forum, and spend a happy morning exploring.
Last time I was there, I missed the Pantheon and the Capuchin Cemetery, where the Crypt is decorated with skulls! I intend going back to see both.
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
The church I liked was Santa Maria Trastevere.
Which is the base of the Sant'Egidio community (lay people who are engaged in various kinds of social work and meet for worship daily: very Taizé influenced, or if not influenced, sharing much of a similar ethos). They run (or did, a few years ago) a restaurant nearby called Trattoria degli Amici (of the friends) of which a large number of the staff have learning difficulties. Slightly chaotic service but excellent food.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chesterbelloc:
The great thing about Rome is that there is not just one, concentrated "historic centre" - "old" Rome just goes on and on and it's pretty much all "real". I bet you'll love it.
True. But at the same time central Rome is much more compact than London, for example, and it's easy to get around on foot.
Trastevere generally is the most 'bohemian' part of the city and is great fun just to wander around.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
After some discussion backstage, we've decided this thread is more All Saintsy than Heavenly, so fasten your seatbelts and Romanes are eunt novus domus (Romans are going to a new home).
Ariel
Heaven Host
Ouch!!! Romani in nouum domum eunt (or even better transeunt), if you please!
Hosts may be above reproach, but your attempt at Latin most certainly is not ...
You made it through Latin class without seeing THIS???
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
Lucky you, Hanginginthere! I was on a school trip to Italy in 1978 during which Pope John Paul I died, which made life interesting - the whole place seemed to shut down and even the weather broke. We had a couple of days in Rome right at the end of the trip and IIRC I was fairly impressed with the Catacombs and the Coliseum, but obviously there's so much more to it than that.
Have a wonderful time!
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
Thanks once again for all these great suggestions. Sorry I haven't posted for a couple of days - have been distracted by the birth of our tenth (!!) grandchild, Leo - there's a great papal name!
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Couple of practical points - sorry if I'm saying the obvious.
If you know where you want to go, and it's possible to book ahead, book ahead. This especially applies to the Vatican. The Galleria Borghese is another place that has queues.
Don't try to fit in too much. I always try to and I always find I'm exhausted by the final day of a holiday. It's worth dropping one thing off the schedule in favour of an afternoon in the middle of the holiday just being.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
Thanks Dafyd, good advice. I learned the hard way in Paris many years ago; also the need for really comfortable shoes!
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Chipping in the second (or third) Trastevere for a wander and the area around the Campo di Fiori for eating. Rome is an amazingly small city so just wandering around you'll come across loads of interesting stuff.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hanginginthere:
Thanks Dafyd, good advice. I learned the hard way in Paris many years ago; also the need for really comfortable shoes!
Confortable shoes, definitely. But also modest clothing if you're visiting churches: when I was there 15 years ago men were being asked to wear trousers, not shorts. I'm not sure about the rules for women, but I'd expect it would involve covering upper arms and a reasonable amount of leg.
This thread is making me want to go back to Rome! It was late September when I went, and it was still very hot - by 9a.m. we were crossing the street so as to be in the shade. Towards the end of our stay there was a spectacular thunderstorm one night, and brief but heavy rain. The next day, we visited the Forum, and the smell of the earth and the pine trees after the rain was just delicious.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
Yes I have been wondering about weather, especially temperature. While it has been so chilly here recently it has been difficult to imagine needing (and therefore packing) lighter clothes.
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
I think this is fairly accurate:
Climate of Rome
I've been told August is the hottest month, and a lot of the city shuts up shop and goes somewhere cooler on holiday.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
... I'm not sure about the rules for women, but I'd expect it would involve covering upper arms ...
Yes - we were there in September too, and I remember having to borrow one of the teachers' jackets before they'd let me in to Milan Cathedral as I was wearing a strappy dress.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Yangtze
Shipmate
# 4965
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Posted
I loved the Vatican modern art collection, which is in a few rooms as a sort of detour on the way to the Sistine Chapel iirc. Apparently popes get given a lot of art and some of it is really rather good.
And as most people are just hi-tailing it to get to the famous stuff the rooms had the benefit of being relatively quiet as well.
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Arthur & Henry Ethical Shirts for Men
organic cotton, fair trade cotton, linen
Sometimes I wonder What's for Afters?
Posts: 2022 | From: the smallest town in England | Registered: Sep 2003
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
For me the most wonderful place in Rome is the church of Santa Maria in Aracoeli,built on the Capitoline Hill.
It contains the tomb of St Helen, the mother of Constantine and also used to have a 'miracle working' statue of the Bambino Gesu,before whom
Roman children recited poems in Advent.
You have to go in by a side door from the Capitoline Hill then come out by the front door for one of the most stunning views of Rome.
On the other hand if you climb the steps in front of the church (on your knees)you are said to have a good chance of winning the lottery.
Perhaps this is because the church is built on the temple of Juno Admonitrix and right beside where the Romans made coins.Admonitrix is the origin of the English words 'mint' and indeed 'money'.
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I found the Sistine Chapel quite disappointing. There were guards there loudly saying 'SHHHHshhhhhhh' every few seconds and a tannoy saying how holy the place is and to be silent.
Suitable music and notices would have been far more effective - as it was all the loud 'be quiet' noise was very irritating!
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:
The church I liked was Santa Maria Trastevere.
Which is the base of the Sant'Egidio community (lay people who are engaged in various kinds of social work and meet for worship daily: very Taizé influenced, or if not influenced, sharing much of a similar ethos). They run (or did, a few years ago) a restaurant nearby called Trattoria degli Amici (of the friends) of which a large number of the staff have learning difficulties. Slightly chaotic service but excellent food.
Are you not confusing the Church of San' Egidio in Trastevere with Santa Maria? It's about three years since I was in Trastevere but San Egidio community were still in their eponymous home then.
I second the recommendations of Santa Maria Maggiore, San Clemente and Santa Maria in Cosmedin. I'd also add San' Andrea della Valle for the ceiling and Santa Sabina on the Aventine. If you get to the Piazza del Populo and the twin churches either side of the Via del Corso, pop in to the one on the right hand side, Santa Maria dei Miracoli and say a prayer for Mrs Trisagion and me: it's where we married on New Years Day 1991.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
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Posted
When I went to Rome (just for a few days, so although I did the main "things to see" I didn't get the chance to go much off the beaten track) my over-riding feeling was one of terror every time I had to cross the road. I eventually overcame this by making sure I crossed at the same time as any passing huge crowd of tourists or locals (on the assumption that there was safety in numbers).
Somebody upthread said to avoid the Spanish Steps, but I found them a great spot for people watching. I also remember really liking the Pantheon, being vaguely disappointed by the Sistene Chapel (due to being part of the hordes, and feeling like we were being swished through without the time or room to really stop and take it in), and very moved by the Coliseum.
What's the name of that spectacularly ugly wedding cake edifice? It's not somewhere I'd linger, but I was glad I'd seen it so I could verify it was indeed as ugly and wedding cakey as the reviews had said. I didn't go close as it seemed to be surrounded by a several-lane roundabout, so crossing the road was too much to even contemplate!
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"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
What's the name of that spectacularly ugly wedding cake edifice? It's not somewhere I'd linger, but I was glad I'd seen it so I could verify it was indeed as ugly and wedding cakey as the reviews had said.
The Vittoriano? My guidebook recommended visiting it, as it's the only place from which you can see the whole city without catching sight of the Vittoriano.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
There were guards there loudly saying 'SHHHHshhhhhhh' every few seconds and a tannoy saying how holy the place is and to be silent.
I wouldn't have minded that so much if anybody had ever paid any attention.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Merchant Trader
Shipmate
# 9007
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Posted
First buy a guide and a map. One of the best ones I came across was a series of walking tours through which you certainly could see everything in 7 days (all starting from the monument to Victor Emmanuel II which is a very convenient central point).
As someone has said Rome is relatively compact and you can walk. Once, as a challenge, we did all the main sites in a day - ok we cheated and once we could see something we said we have done it.
Allow a day for the Forum and everything around it.
Allow a day for the Vatican.
Allow a day for the Appian Way, so many things along it, maybe best to walk one direction and get a taxi back.
Otherwise you have to decide where to linger, are you interested in Roman history, Italian history, the medieval period or modern history? Are you interested in politics and the secular or churches? Unlike London or Milan where we may excavate and allow the archaeologists to record everything before building over the past, in Rome its all still visible.
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... formerly of Muscovy, Lombardy & the Low Countries; travelling through diverse trading stations in the New and Olde Worlds
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Merchant Trader
Shipmate
# 9007
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
... I'm not sure about the rules for women, but I'd expect it would involve covering upper arms ...
Yes - we were there in September too, and I remember having to borrow one of the teachers' jackets before they'd let me in to Milan Cathedral as I was wearing a strappy dress.
There is considerable variability but a general rule is for men to cover legs (trousers and shirts, no shorts or vests) and women to cover shoulders).
Light travelling trousers probably better than jeans for both sexes.
In some well known places the 'religious police' will enforce the basic rules rigorously but also may have the required garments.
In other places used to tourists its possible to get away with more but in my view its a question of showing respect.
Off the beaten track you may find no enforcement but you may also find places who discourage jeans and trainers, who prefer women to wear skirts rather than trousers and more commonly to require women to cover their heads.
Most of my women companions have found a pashmina useful to cover shoulders or head to whatever degree required and still look elegant. This has been a god-send in the Blue Mosque in Istanbul, Orthodox churches in Moscow and in rural areas as well as throughout Italy.
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... formerly of Muscovy, Lombardy & the Low Countries; travelling through diverse trading stations in the New and Olde Worlds
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
I am going to need a few weeks or months to do justice to all these great suggestions, rather than the measly 5 days I actually have. I am glad someone mentioned the Appian Way (thank you, Merchant Trader) as I had been wondering about that, having read Quo Vadis? as a teenager and having been obsessed with Ancient Rome for as long as I can remember. But also, as an RC, wanting to get a feel for ecclesiastical Rome!
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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Forthview
Shipmate
# 12376
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Posted
Just for the record 'San' is used before male names unless the name begins with a vowel.
The various forms in Italian are :
San Pietro San Paolo San Giovanni etc
Sant'Antonio Sant'Egidio Sant'Ignazio Sant'Umberto Sant'Onofrio etc.
Santo Stefano
Santa Maria Santa Margherita Santa Lucia
Sant'Anna Sant'Elena etc
Posts: 3444 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2007
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Are you not confusing the Church of San' Egidio in Trastevere with Santa Maria? It's about three years since I was in Trastevere but San Egidio community were still in their eponymous home then.
I don't think so Trisagion. S Maria is (or was nine years ago when I was there) the base for their evening liturgy. It is of course quite possible that their main base and headquarters is elsewhere, and the church from which they take their name seems the most likely place.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
I checked with a friend who lives in Trastevere. They are based at Sant' Egidio, which is by the back entrance to Santa Maria and they do use the latter for there Evening Prayer. Sorry for the tangent, Angloid.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
Two things I liked about Rome:
(1) That history of many eras is all around you. So richly that you will never see it all, so don't try to do so in 7 days. Unlike many cities which have had only one 'golden age', Rome has had at least four. Modern Rome is built on baroque Rome, which is built on medieval Rome, which is built on ancient Rome. San Clemente (mentioned above) is one place that epitomises this. So too does the nearby ancient aqueduct, with its arches filled in by medieval houses. As it happens by chance when I was last there, San Clemente was the nearest church to our hotel, so I went there for Sunday mass, despite not being a Catholic, and found a very socially aware congregation with active projects which I was invited to join. Had I been on the Ship at the time, I'd have written a very positive MW report!
(2) When in Rome, do as the Romans do... enjoy a leisurely meal at your local trattoria. On a trip long along (as students staying in cheap lodgings near the main railway station) , we became such good customers and friends of our local patrone, that after a while the wine was on the house. The wine was not exactly Chateau Rothschild, but the friendliness and thought was there.
[ 22. September 2013, 09:27: Message edited by: Tukai ]
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
For something quite different, try Ss Cosmo and Damian in the Vespasian Forum from memory. Tiny but attractive. The church is built on a much older building. Not sure if either or both of the Saints has been struck off in recent years.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
For something quite different, try Ss Cosmo and Damian in the Vespasian Forum from memory. Tiny but attractive. The church is built on a much older building. Not sure if either or both of the Saints has been struck off in recent years.
So "not struck off" that they are mentioned in the canon of the Mass/first Eucharistic prayer of Masses in the Roman Rite.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Thanks Trisagion - as I said, I was not sure.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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geroff
Shipmate
# 3882
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Posted
When we last went to Rome (including a minimeet with Tomb but that is another story) we walked everywhere and we got very tired! But since then we have been to other European cities and used transport systems' passes. The Roma Pass seems good value at €34 for 3 days including free use of metro, buses and trains (except from airport) and some reduced prices in museums.
Tomb also told us about the 'Church of the Holy Guts' which is his expression - perhaps I can get Tomb to make a rare visit here and comment!
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"The first principle in science is to invent something nice to look at and then decide what it can do." Rowland Emett 1906-1990
Posts: 1172 | From: Montgomeryshire, Wales | Registered: Jan 2003
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
Geroff emailed me urging me to "share" about one of my favorite places in Rome. It's the church of Santi Vicento e Anastasio. It's right off the Piazza di Trevi--where the Trevi Fountain is.
It's sort of a ratty little church--by Rome standards--but it has the unique distinction of housing the embalmed entrails of every pope since Leo XIII.
I call it the "Church of the Holy Guts." I first discovered that it had this dubious distinction while trying to decode the Latin plaque on the street opposite its facade. I thought to myself, "Holy Poop, I know my Latin's pretty dodgy, but this can't really mean what I think it means."
Then Julie (Mrs. tomb), more adventuresome than I, discovered the English translation plaque further down the street. "Tom!" she screamed, "they've got Pope Entrails embalmed in that church!"
So there you have it. My Favorite Place in Rome.
You owe me, Geroff.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
Notwithstanding all that, here are a few of my suggestions:
You'll need to apply to the Vatican to get tickets, but I highly recommend a tour of the Scavi under St. Peter's basilica.
In the 1950s, they definitively discovered the tomb (thank God, not eponymous) of St. Peter. You can actually peer through the excavation to see what purport to be St. Peter's bones.
The Vatican hill was, in Roman times, the Circus of Nero, where St. Peter was martyred--as well as one of the great cemeteries of Rome (The law forbade people from being buried inside the walls of the City). Hence, he was buried nearby. The remains of the monument that Constantine erected over his tomb can still be seen in the Scavi, along with Roman tombs that were subsequently christianized. It's sort of like Pompeii without the ash or porn.
If you are near the Vatican and looking for a place to eat dinner, make reservations at Il Quattro Mori. Have their pasta with truffle sauce.
You will never think about food the same after that.
When visiting the Vatican museum, check out the Clemintine Pio museum, where you can see the Laocoon.
I like to spend time in the Vatican museum before the Rafael Stanza. It's just a ways before the Sistine Chapel, but bears some time just sitting and meditating and praying.
I had the great fortune several years ago to be a member of a choir from Denver that sang a concert in the Sistine Chapel. It was in the evening, the Chapel was absolutely empty, and the only light was from the clerestory windows.
When the audience filed in, we stood on the steps of the papal altar and sang, among other things, Allegri's Miserere Mei, Deus.
I was privileged to be the baritone in the quartet for that piece, and we stood in front of the Rood Screen looking at the Last Judgement. It was and will be one of the most memorable moments of my life.
Other things in Rome. Hmmm. There's a little cava pizza place next to the church of San Ignacio. They have awesome pizza and have fresh mozarella. But be careful; they'll try to rip you off if they can.
Thanks, Geroff, for bringing back so many good memories.
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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tomb
Shipmate
# 174
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Posted
It would seem that my info about the Church of the Holy Guts was wrong. I guess they *stopped* storing papal entrails there after Leo XIII. Read the wikipedia article here: here:
Posts: 5039 | From: Denver, Colorado | Registered: May 2001
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
random memory from Rome - if you're visiting St Peter's, you have to go through a metal detector and other security things. They took away a butter knife which me and my friend were going to make sandwiches with... so if you're in the habit of carrying pen knives or other sharp things around with you, don't take them to the vatican!
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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
tomb: You'll need to apply to the Vatican to get tickets, but I highly recommend a tour of the Scavi under St. Peter's basilica.
Seconded. By luck, I went with a friend who had a friend who had a friend in the Vatican... Very recommendable.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Huntress
Shipmate
# 2595
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Posted
I returned from Rome a couple of weeks ago after spending 12 days there on something of a budget with my better half. We stayed in Monti, on Via dei Serpenti, so looked at quite a bit of stuff around there, but did venture further afield thanks to a bus pass. Yes, much is walkable in the old centre and longer on-foot journeys can have cafe / gelato stops worked into them ![[Smile]](smile.gif) but I had injured my foot somehow whilst 'doing' the Forum and Palatine Hill.
Here are some recommendations, some of which overlap with the excellent suggestions already made.
Churches and Museums:
San Clemente, recommended repeatedly earlier in the thread. Yes it is excellent, also a nice cool way of spending time underground if the weather is hot. Tickets are 5 euro each full price to go down to the underground basilica and (further underground) Mithraic temple. The above-ground church (with beautiful frescoes by Masolino of St Catherine) is free.
Santa Maria della Concezione and Capuchin Museum with Crypts. The Church was closed for refurbishment a couple of weeks ago. The museum was open. 6 euros for a ticket full price. Very interesting museum about the Capuchins with the Crypts at the end and then a shop selling (rather pricey) souvenirs. It is stated in the museum, however, that proceeds from tickets etc. go to the Capuchin's charitable projects.
Santa Maria in Ara Coeli. On the same hill as the Piazza del Campidoglio, up a frightening number of steps, but Oh! the view from the top! The church is very decorated and contains the tomb of St Helen.
The Museum of Crime, on Via del Gonfalone. 2 euros entrance. Very good value for 2 hours worth of exhibits related to crime and punishment in Rome over the last few centuries. Some rather grim exhibits. Quite a lot of the information is in English.
If you go to St Peter's there will be a lot of people on the surrounding streets trying to sell you stuff and some strongly implying that you need a ticket (bought from them) to enter the basilica. You don't need a ticket. I think they are trying to sell tours and misleading people. I didn't enjoy my visit to St Peter's so much - until 6pm came and it started quietening down.
Domus Romane, in Palazzo Valentini. Booking online is necessary for this one, we booked an English tour. With booking fees it came to 13 euro but it was worth it. DM is an excavated Roman villa in the basement of a Renaissance palace. They have placed strong glass a few feet above the surving floors and walls so you are walking above the rooms, with projected images and animations recreating the original building around you. Also good as an underground out-of-the-sun activity. The tour took just over an hour and a half.
The combined Colosseum / Forum / Palatine Hill ticket, at 12 euros, is very good value for all that can be seen and you have (need) two days to use the ticket. Regardless of which attraction you want to see first, buy the ticket from the Palatine Hill entrance and the queue will be shorter - DON'T queue at the Colosseum.
I think I went in 36 churches during our holiday. Many were on the basis of 'oh there's an open church door' and it's great to see what can be discovered within, if you're interested in art; saints bodies; etc. or just want to get inside for a while.
Churches of different denominations do services in English, if you want one. We went to Mass at San Silvestro in Capite on a Sunday evening and discovered that the Church houses the (reputed) head of St John the Baptist. On our last Sunday we went to Mass at Santa Maria Maggiore (in Italian) and managed well enough to know what was going on. It was quite nice to look at the mosaics from a comfortable seat - unavailable during the week when the nave is cleared of seating. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Practical bits and bobs:
Standing up at the bar (banco) in a cafe will almsot always be cheaper than sitting at a table (tavolo) to drink your coffee / eat your pastry.
Tazza d'oro, near the Pantheon, has some benches which can be perched on at no extra cost and is exellent for coffee and also for granita con panna (shaved coffee ice with cream). Their toilet is quite nice too.
There are water fountains all over Rome and the water is perfectly drinkable, very cold and tastes very nice. Just keep a water bottle with you and fill it at one of these fountains and save money. I believe there is an App available to locate them.
The buses are quite good but can get very very crowded. Tickets can be bought on some - not all - buses, from a machine, but are best bought in advance from tobacconists.
Places that sell pizza by the slice or cut (taglio) and weight are good for a cheap snack or lunch, especially when you can specify with your hands, if necessary, the size of piece you want.
Aperitivo 'hour' (often two or three) was how we had a few evening meals. Many places will charge 8-10 euros for a glass of wine and plate of food or an open buffet. I heartily recommend Josephine Bistrot on via Leonida Bissolati for this. Their food was diverse and excellent.
Gelato: I think the best we had was at Fatamorgana - one of whose branches was a few minutes' walk away from our apartment and at Gelateria del Teatro, on via dei Coronari, a few minutes' walk from Piazza Navona. There are various websites advising how to avoid low-quality gelato, tips which were reinforced by local residents during our stay.
I found the website Revealed Rome very useful, it supplied various recommendations and tips, some of which were followed up on and are repeated above
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The Amazing Chronoscope
Posts: 431 | From: Lancashire / Nottingham | Registered: Apr 2002
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Huntress
Shipmate
# 2595
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Posted
For clarification: the water fountains you can drink from are the small hydrant-type 'fontanelle' or 'nasoni' NOT the decorative fountains like Trevi etc. I have no knowledge about the water quality of those.
See here for information
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The Amazing Chronoscope
Posts: 431 | From: Lancashire / Nottingham | Registered: Apr 2002
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
Thanks, Huntress, for your long list of suggestions. So many people have responded to my plea that I am going to have to do some serious pruning of the list I am compiling. But it's brilliant to have personal recommendations - much better than just looking through a guide book.
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
Leaving for Rome tomorrow evening! I will try to pack in as many of the recommendations on this thread as possible ...
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
A last minute suggestion: if you're going to St. Peter's, go early in the morning when, in my experience, it is almost empty except for priests and pilgrims celebrating Masses at the various side altars. Believe it or not, it's actually quite peaceful.
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chesterbelloc
Tremendous trifler
# 3128
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Posted
Another thought just occured to me: when buying transport tickets of any kind DO NOT FORGET TO VALIDATE THEM in the machines provided before you use them! There's an on-the-spot fine if you don't, but almost no-one official tells you this until it's too late. Although the fine is small (around €40) it's really not worth the hassle if caught. Also on the transport front, if travelling to Ciampino airport from Termini (central railway station) by the Terravision buses, go really, really early - hours before your flight - because the queues for them can be hours long. If travelling to Fiumicino (Da Vinci) airport, only the expensive Leonardo Express train goes from Termini - the cheper one only goes from Ostiense. Finally, if using the (very good) left luggage facilities at Termini, be prepared for quite long queue there too (up to an hour, I find).
Also, what the Huntress said about the fountains. Ignore what the Romans themselves say about the delicious, free and ubiquitous water giving you bladder-stones - it's probably a rumour spread by bottled-water companies.
My wife adds: always get a restaurant table before 1.30pm to be sure of getting one at all in anywhere decent for lunch (around which meal we always plan each Roman day); and remember that most churches are shut for most of the afternoon, only opening again in the evening.
[ 07. October 2013, 21:47: Message edited by: Chesterbelloc ]
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"[A] moral, intellectual, and social step below Mudfrog."
Posts: 4199 | From: Athens Borealis | Registered: Aug 2002
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Emendator Liturgia
Shipmate
# 17245
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Posted
Huntress, where did you stay? Was it the Antica Residenza Monti?
Posts: 401 | From: Sydney, Australia | Registered: Jul 2012
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hanginginthere
Shipmate
# 17541
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Posted
Well, I'm back, and feeling distinctly punch-drunk from all that walking and sightseeing. Main impressions? Nothing prepared me for the sheer scale of everything! I have in my time proofread many art history books and seen innumerable photos of e.g. the Pantheon, but I could not believe the overwhelming size of everything. And the way ancient walls, columns etc are round every corner - things that would be a major tourist attraction anywhere else are just there, unregarded and unlabled in the streets. We used the Porta Maggiore tram interchange every day, and the Porta is a vast gate that dates from 52 AD, but no one takes any notice of it and we certainly wouldn't have known it was there if we hadn't been staying on that side of town.
A big disappointment was not being able to get into St Peter's - entry was barred because of some big event. We saw lots of churches, of course, and, as I said in my OP, I am not a fan of the baroque, so many of them did not really appeal (the Gesu is so totally over the top that it made my head spin!). My favourite was S. Maria in Trastevere with its lovely Byzantine-style mosaics, and I also liked the little S. Maria in Loreto, near Trajan's Column. San Clemente was fascinating - thanks to all of you who suggested it, as I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. And thanks for the tip about the water fountains, which we took full advantage of!
Mr h and I have come back with a long list for 'next time', and yes, there will definitely be a next time!
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'Safe?' said Mr Beaver. 'Who said anything about safe? But he's good. He's the King, I tell you.'
Posts: 72 | From: Eboracum | Registered: Jan 2013
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