Ship of Fools: I killed a rat and feel bad about it

Thread: I killed a rat and feel bad about it Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I hate killing God's creatures! But he was missing up my house, eating through food packaging, pooping on the rugs in lots of rooms, doing who knows what to woodwork or wiring in the attic.

Last night he again licked all the peanut butter off the trap without triggering it. (I just now read to use tootsie roll candy, chew to soften, wrap it around the trigger bait tongue, hook it on, they can't lick it off and pulling on it triggers the trap.)

But this afternoon I heard a little noise when I walked in the kitchen - he was in the kitchen garbage can after the banana peel. Garbage can almost empty, plastic bag lined slippery sides, he couldn't - or hadn't yet figured out a way to - get out.

I was going to throw the plastic bag, tied shut with him in it, in the dumpster, but at some point he'd claw or eat thru the bag, and the trash can has holes, he'd get out and back into my house.

So instead I filled the kitchen trash can half full of water, in my yard, and got him into it and got the rest of the trash out so he has nothing to stand on. Gosh he's a fighter, still trying after 10 minutes to swim and climb the impossible walls.

And I feel horrid! Bad enough to kill God's critters by putting out traps, but this was me directly interacting with him eyeball to eyeball, making sure he finally dies. I hate it, I've lost my appetite.

Anyone else hate killing even when it's in defense of your house?

20 minutes, he's still swimming. I wish I knew something to put in the water that would make it faster and less painful. I hate hurting living feeling creatures! And my big fear is some neighbor will take a look at why is a kitchen trash can in my front yard, and set the poor thing free.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

I find this a tough one. I hate the idea of killing animals, even though I spent several years working in Pest Control.

In that job, I could detach myself from it to a certain extent, but when it came to directly killing pest species (as opposed to simply laying traps or poison) I really found it unpleasant.

The thing is, however unpleasant it might be or however strong your conscience may be a line has to be drawn somewhere. 100 rats running free in a field aren't doing anyone any harm, but 1 rat in a kitchen is a potential health hazard. Some people used to criticise me for what I did. I would turn it around and ask if they would shop in a supermarket with rats running around, or feel comfortable living in a house with a large wasp nest hanging from the ceiling.

I know exactly where you're coming from, but sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and get on with it, unpleasant as it may feel.

[ 22. September 2013, 23:12: Message edited by: Spike ]

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :

Is it a very very wrong thing that this thread's title makes me think of the song "I kissed a girl and I liked it"?

Maybe "I killed a rat and disliked it..."

Er.

Right.

Well.

I'll get my coat.

Very busy. Lots of things to do, you know...

<slinks towards exit>

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Sigh, any ideas how to actually shorten it's death process? 3 hours later, it's still swimming in the trash can, so I looked up how long can a rat swim? It can tred water three days!

I suppose I could try to push it under water but the web pages say it can hold it's breath 15 minutes! That's a long time to try to hold a struggling rat submerged with a stick or something.

Gotta be a faster way to put us both out of our misery than letting it struggle for 3 days.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

I know how you feel, BR - living next-door to a house with three cats but having none ourselves, the local mice see chez Piglet and think, "ooh, cat-free zone" and in they come. I prefer to use humane traps, but they do get wise to them - I've seen a mouse more-or-less run over the top of one.

Having said that, we did have a couple of spring-loaded ones, and I was just as distressed as you when a mouse got caught in one - I hated the minute or so before it finished him off. Another one just caught his tail in one and sort of whimpered until I got D. to come and take it away and set him free somewhere.

You have to be ruthless though - it helps to consider them as "vermin" rather than "God's little creatures" - there are plenty more where yours came from!

Good luck! [Smile]

Posted by infinite_monkey (# 11333) on :

I think the most humane thing to do at this point is probably, well, to kill it directly, if you're not in a position to take the garbage can far far away and let it go. Can you put a heavy thing on top and push down? Do any neighbors have, well, guns? Can you wear extremely thick gloves and do whatever people do to chickens? Would a significant amount of poison in the garbage can work fast enough?

I sympathize: difficult position for both living creatures to be in right now.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Sorry you went through that.

I hate killing things, too, but I've had to learn to do it.

In case you're thinking of live traps, I used to use them for mice. But

a) sometimes, the mice would get caught in a slight gap in the workings, and die anyway;

and

b) you really need to release the mouse in its new home within about 24 hours. Otherwise, it's apt to die, even if you put food in its cage.

I've never had to deal with rats, other than avoiding one or two sick ones on the street.
[Paranoid]

Maybe there are sites that have ideas? Good luck!

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

All I can think of is a good lot of bleach or pool chlorine in with the water, go away and don't come back for a long time. Or you cold do as others have suggested and put a weight on top to hold it underwater - again, go away and let nature take its course.

Rats are vermin and a real health hazard in the house. Don't feel bad about it.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
I think the most humane thing to do at this point is probably, well, to kill it directly, if you're not in a position to take the garbage can far far away and let it go. Can you put a heavy thing on top and push down?

Place an earthenware plant pot over the rat (the type with a drainage hole in the bottom)- it will submerge and drown him.

Or a plastic one with a half-brick on top.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
I think the most humane thing to do at this point is probably, well, to kill it directly, if you're not in a position to take the garbage can far far away and let it go. Can you put a heavy thing on top and push down?
Place an earthenware plant pot over the rat (the type with a drainage hole in the bottom)- it will submerge and drown him.

Or a plastic one with a half-brick on top.

This. It's one thing to be squeamish about killing an animal. It's another to make it swim for three days before it dies of exhaustion.

You've made the (correct) decision that having a rat in your living space is unacceptable - cats were domesticated* for exactly that reason. The logical and humane conclusion is that it is better done quickly. My dad (who lives in the country) catches them in a humane trap*, then drowns them in the water butt by immersing it whole.

*adopted by cats because we provided access to a food source

**other animals do wander in, and he can release them unharmed. It's also illegal to release trapped vermin.

Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on :

Can you take the garbage can somewhere away from your house and then release it? That's what I'd be tempted to do. Or put rat poison in the water so that it drinks it and hopefully dies quicker.

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

Get several traps. Spring loaded. Vermin with broken necks don't move. Pick up trap, Toss in garbage. If you're not squeamish, empty trap. Reuse as necessary.

Or get a cat.

Posted by Aggie (# 4385) on :

I would hate to kill any creature (except flies and mosquitoes). In fact, I know I couldn't kill anything personally, and when I have been faced with having to deal with a "pest", I have always used an indirect approach to getting rid of it - by calling pest control or getting the cat to kill it as I did at my mother's house in Spain when she first bought it, it had been empty for several months, and it was full of mice. I let the street cats come in and despatch the mice, which they did - all the mice gone in one day!!

At home in the UK, I had used to have a dilemma when my cat Jet - when he was younger and more spry - used to bring in half-dead or mortally wounded birds, rodents and frogs. I knew that it would be crueller of me to let them die slowly of their injuries, rather than kill them. However, I couldn't bring myself to do it.
Fortunately, at that time, I had a neighbour, who was a "country boy", who told me that as a child he used to shoot squirrels and rabbits and often deer, on his dad's farm, so he had no qualms about finishing off Jet's discarded prey.

[ 23. September 2013, 11:07: Message edited by: Aggie ]

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

luvanddaisies - [Killing me]

I was just about to post something along those very lines until I saw your comment.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

I wouldn't like to kill a rat either. Luckily, my dog has no such scrupules.

(Now if she would only stop laying the dead ones on my doorstep as a trophy/offering.)

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Necessity pushes the mind. Last night, before some of you posted (and thanks to all!) my awareness switched from feeling sorry and frustrated for his suffering a too long death to -

*I* need him dead before morning because my neighbor who is aggressively curious walks her dog by my house in the morning, she *will* check to see what's in the kitchen trash can in the yard, she *will* set the critter free - in my yard - because she can't stand any hint of cruelty to animals. And the rat will be back in my house.

Sites on line say a rat taken a mile or two away will return! Besides which no one two miles from me would appreciate being brought a rat.

I didn't think of a flower pot - great idea, but I saw a aluminum foil loaf pan in my kitchen, punched some holes in it, put it over the rat, pushed it to the bottom and put half a brick on top.

Then realized I should have worn gloves instead of putting my skin in rat-water. Oh well, that's what soap is for.

Now to buy a dozen more spring traps, because I guess sometimes there's just one but other times there are a bunch.

I hate killing. But they invaded my turf.

Actually, I asked God to please get rid of the rat for me. Would be nice if this one getting into the trash can was God's response and they are all gone? Sigh, more likely God just toughening me up for the remaining killing to be done?

Really appreciate the encouragement, hard to kill something furry that could almost be a pet.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

Please let us know the outcome. This is morbidly fascinating.

Hope you're getting rid of that beastie for good!

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

I've thought since young that being made in God's image includes the power of life and death over some of God's creatures. From euthanising family pets, butchering chickens, catching mice in traps, to shooting skunks and gophers (ground squirrels) because they carry rabies and / or plague, to dealing with the over running we're experiencing with white tailed deer, moose and bears, it is burden of being human to have to do some of these things.

It really is okay to end the lives of animals in necessary situations, and to accept that it is a cost of being a human being in God's image.

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

Hey, next time try biting his head off. Much quicker, more merciful, and less likely to incite that squeamish feeling which may be the prick of conscience down in the Lone Star State.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

"I kissed a rat and I liked it" ?

Don't try that at home folks .

Know anyone with an air-gun Belle Ringer ? Might put a hole in your trash can mind .
I had several dealings with rats. And yes killing them, esp. when they are trapped, didn't give me a good feeling , (and that was before I got God).

God doesn't seem to have too much of a problem with killing in OT despite the 'Thou shalt nots ..."
We have to steal ourselves to kill a creature when it's absolutely necessary . Having rats in one's house falls well inside that parameter TMM .

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

rolyn:

quote:
"I kissed a rat and I liked it" ?

Don't try that at home folks .

I've kissed a couple of "fancy" rats on the head. And I liked it. I find rats bred to be domestic adorable.

I do understand Belle Ringer's dilemma however. Wild rats can be a scourge to the home.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Belle Ringer

I sympathize with your qualms. I can't kill anything except clothes moths, so I guess I'm a hypocrite. Well, I eat meat!

I had a ton of rats once in the loft, and a guy came in, and spread poison, result, about ten dead rats.

Doesn't feel great at all, but there is no alternative except a cat. I just go through the guilt, I guess. It has an expiry date.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... just go through the guilt, I guess. It has an expiry date.

Guilt has an expiry date, I love it!

Rat has been underwater since last night, I guess I need to dump him. Original plan to dump the water with him in it down the street's storm drain, won't work with brick and aluminum can in the trash can too. Oh well. Drain the water, brick and pan and rat in the dumpster.

So, while I was praying to God for the rat leave the house, the rat was probably praising God for providing shelter and food. And last night I'm begging the swimming rat to drown fast while his eyes are begging me for rescue.

Reminds me of a time I was playing chess (or was it checkers?) and mindlessly asking God to help me win, when occurred to me my opponent was a Christian and probably wanted to win himself - whose prayers does God respond to? Thought of that chess (or checkers) game last night. Me and the rat, opposite pleadings to God.

What a messed up world! (And ya'll say "it took a rat to show you that?!)

Posted by Hazey*Jane (# 8754) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
It's one thing to be squeamish about killing an animal. It's another to make it swim for three days before it dies of exhaustion.

I heartily agree. It's not a bad thing to rid yourself (and your neighbours) of a creature which could harm your health. But this is not a good way to go about it. The fact is that you haven't killed it yet, it has a long way to go.

If you really can't sort this yourself, phone pest control asap or get someone to help you, but don't make it swim to death if you have qualms about the issue of destroying an animal.

Edited to add: please be very careful how you dispose of it, so as not to cause health issues to yourself or others. See whether there is any advice online e.g. from the CDC.

[ 23. September 2013, 23:12: Message edited by: Hazey*Jane ]

Posted by Hazey*Jane (# 8754) on :

Here you go.

Might be worth adding some disinfectant to the water before disposing of it. And make sure you don't get any on yourself.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

You poor thing! I'm also squeamish about killing things, we keep chickens and my husband has to do it occasionally, though I guess I could do it if a chicken was suffering and needed putting out of it's misery. A rat would make me squirm far more though. We generally put poison down for rats but they are outside, we put it in their tunnel so as not to kill local cats.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hazey*Jane:
Here you go.

Might be worth adding some disinfectant to the water before disposing of it. And make sure you don't get any on yourself.

Wow about the cleanup routine! But the rat (or several rats) and I have been living in the same house together for months, bit late to worry about vacuuming droppings on the carpet.

I kept thinking of one of the C.S. Lewis Sci Fi books where the hero (Ransom?) tries to put a critter out of its misery and finds it much harder to do than he expected. The earlier web sites I read all talked about just dropping or tricking the rat into a bucket part full of water so they drown, one said it drowns in 2 minutes, so that what I expected. At twenty minutes when I checked expecting to see a long dead rat, but he was very active, I thought I didn't have the water deep enough, maybe he was standing on the bottom, so I added water.

Went out again, still active, maybe still not deep enough to be "over his head"?

Then I was expecting him to be worn out and sink - like I would do - and quickly drown - but he was still active.

Took me way too long to think to look up "can rats swim?" and discover he could keep it up for days. Obviously I had to find a way to push him under.

It was my ignorance that it took me so long to learn he wasn't going to die quickly. But also I have learned if I use the water bucket trap method, they don't just quickly drown like all the YouTube videos imply, so if I set up that kind of trap I need to check it frequently so I can prevent excessive suffering.

And yet - if a rat can keep swimming in the ocean for 3 days, a few hours is not physical suffering. Being trapped is the issue, emotional stress; do rats have rat shrinks to help them deal with stress?

Hate killing a furry critter who is almost cute. (I apologize to the roaches too, after I trick them into waiting while I fetch the bug spray. That's mean of me.)

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Forgive my ignorance - perhaps Spike will know better - but if you have had rat related problems for a while, surely there will be more than one rat to be dealt with ?

Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :

At times like this I miss Kenwritez* more and more........

Fly Safe Pyx_e

* he had a recipe for everything.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
(I apologize to the roaches too, after I trick them into waiting while I fetch the bug spray. That's mean of me.)

We had (note the past tense) an ants nest in our garden this summer. I definitely didn't apologise to them as I unloaded chemical death upon every entrance to their home I could find. No. I laughed. The manaical laugh of one who is gleefully snuffing out hundreds (thousands?) of lives for his own comfort and convenience.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

We get rats after very heavy rain - they take refuge in gardens from the water meadows and are a pain in the arse.

I've managed to construct metal mesh liners for the compost bins but they climb the lower branches of fruit trees (accessed via a wall) and nibble all the fruit.

Outside, rats will gnaw their way through plastic, thin metal, wood, etc and they cause huge damage to crops. They reproduce at alarming rate and can climb - a neighbour had them in his roof and ended up having to have all his wiring replaced, together with insulation, and everything he'd had stored in his loft had to be thrown away.

Inside a house, rats (or mice, for that matter) are particularly unpleasant since they have no bladder sphincter so pee constantly - no, its not just the poop you need to worry about: if you have vermin then every surface they have moved over will have had their urine tracked over it.

Does that make the idea of getting rid of them better???

Best method is poison: and keep putting it down until the bait containers haven't been touched for at least 3 days.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I live next to a farm corn dryer, which is rodent heaven. But there are a few cats swanning about, which helps. But I agree with the above - they are hell on earth if you get them, and all compassionate thoughts are out of the window. It's you or them.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

3 cats plus a plethora of rat snakes, mongoose and other predators in the area keep us fairly free of them, thankfully.

[added mongoose]

[ 24. September 2013, 14:02: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
... a plethora of rat snakes ....

**shudders**

I think I'd rather have the rats ... [Eek!]

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

Rat snakes are fine and are non-venomous; when we lived in the rental house we had a pair in the garden, we called them Chuck and Cammie. Snakes are actually rather beautiful.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Yup, I've got more rats. Accidentally left a sweet potato out on the kitchen counter last night. It's now a partial sweet potato.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

If you don't get professional help to sort your infestation you will get seriously ill.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
I've kissed a couple of "fancy" rats on the head. And I liked it. I find rats bred to be domestic adorable.

We used to keep a couple of pet rats too, I agree about their adorability . But having had my prejudices formed early on against farm rats I always held back a bit on cuddling them.

We also visited a place where they were bred , and ironically one of the problems the owner faced was wild rats breaking in . The difference in the temperament and nature of wild rats to tame rats is like chalk and cheese.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
We had (note the past tense) an ants nest in our garden this summer. I definitely didn't apologise to them as I unloaded chemical death upon every entrance to their home I could find. No. I laughed. The manaical laugh of one who is gleefully snuffing out hundreds (thousands?) of lives for his own comfort and convenience.

The maniacal laugh of one who is playfully sniffing toxic gases, and thus out of his comfort zone, inconveniently. [Biased]

Oh, how I remember the glue and felt-tip pens of my youth, when simply opening their lids made you keel over and fall in trance for the best of a week! (That was in the late 60ies and 70ies.) No elf'n'safety back then! [Big Grin]

Posted by Chamois (# 16204) on :

Belle Ringer, I'm sorry to hear about your problem. We had rats a few years ago and my sister nearly freaked out.

You need to find where they are getting in. And fix it. Quickly. In our house they had gnawed through a thick plastic soil pipe and were getting loose in the bathroom. Broken drains are a common cause of rat infestations.

Good luck!

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Pest man acted disinterested in the rats. Handed me some glue traps. They roll right off them. (He also forgot to schedule me for termite treatment.)

I'm working on collecting at traps. Each store has two, wait a week to get more in. Web sites say you need at least a dozen, then need to leave them out several days for the rats to get used to them before baiting. Apparently these critters are smart!

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

Inside a house, rats (or mice, for that matter) are particularly unpleasant since they have no bladder sphincter so pee constantly - no, its not just the poop you need to worry about: if you have vermin then every surface they have moved over will have had their urine tracked over it.

That's true of mice, but not of rats. In fact, when it comes to toilet habits, rats are surprisingly clean. That said, I wouldn't want to share a house with one.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

I'm working on collecting at traps. Each store has two, wait a week to get more in. Web sites say you need at least a dozen, then need to leave them out several days for the rats to get used to them before baiting. Apparently these critters are smart!

That's true. They are neophobic and have deep distrust of anything new. However, they are particularly susceptible to poison as they are incapable of vomiting.

The big disadvantage of glue traps is you still have to kill the buggers once they've been caught. Get some poison. That can take a few days, but at least it does the dirty work for you

[ 24. September 2013, 21:01: Message edited by: Spike ]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Pest man acted disinterested in the rats.

Good Lord, what does he consider a problem? Zombies?

Here the local Council will come out if asked - for free if you live in public housing, for a fee if you are a private owner. For that you get comprehensive poison baiting and two follow-up inspections. (Downstairs has had Mice, and a one or two Sherpas have made it up to us).

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

Terriers, cats, and rat snakes all do the job quickly (and enjoy it). I particularly recommend terriers.

Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :

One night a few Jack Russell owners and their terriers went to a grain elevator (with permission) to hunt rats. A great time was had by all, except for the rats, of course. By the way, these were working terriers, not show dogs.

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

I had a problem with rats last year. They got in my bathroom roof and from there to the kitchen and led to much trauma for me. It's not good being scared to go to the loo. I put poison down everywhere to kill the little fuckers and invested in one of these which seems to have worked wonders as I haven't heard from them since.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Which one did you get, Chive, and do they work on possums? We've just had to have the possum man in to remove one from the roof. They are protected creatures here*, and can't be poisoned, shot, caught by dogs. Pest controllers have to have a special licence to remove them and even when they get them from your roof, they must be released on your property. So you have to have a possum house for the beast to be placed in, and hang that up in your garden somewhere. $450 later....

* Despite being non-threatened species, both ring tailed and brush tailed have won the sympathy of govts of either persuasion. They hold wild parties at night on fence posts and power/phone lines, and then thump around in your roof.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

As someone we both know, Gee D, could tell you, when they succumb to their life of wild parties and riotous living, and die in your roof space, they still have to be moved. I'm glad I don't have that job. He then had roofer attend to any entry space in the roof.

We use to have them at Wollombi where the young ones used the slope of the roof as a slide at night and the parents caroused noisily down the other end of the building.

Still, even koalas can be noisy. Have you ever heard them mating?

When we lived your way, the possums used the electricity wires as a highway to house. Sometimes they would be electrocuted. Others used the yard when hit by a car on the highway. We would find them in the garden.

[ 25. September 2013, 22:56: Message edited by: Lothlorien ]

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Which one did you get, Chive, and do they work on possums?

The one I got isn't actually on there but they all look fairly similar in design and function. As to possums, I have no idea, we don't get a lot of them in the south of England.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

My godson's family had mice a few years ago and got one of those ultrasonic things and his mum started getting terrible migraines. They stopped using it and the migraines stopped. It may have been faulty but she wasn't taking any risks.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Thanks Chive, I'll make some enquiries.

And indeed Lothlorien's brother has had much greater problems with possums than we. I think 3 or 4 have died in the roof. At least we've not had that. At one stage, he was thinking of buying a carpet snake and putting that in the ceiling - when the possums had done their job in feeding the snake, he was going to hire the snake to other sufferers. Then someone pointed out to him that snakes weren't exactly house trained and they, too, would stink.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Don't want to worry you but beware vermin in your roof space: in some older houses the gap between cavity walls is not sealed at roof level and if a rat falls down into the gap [Ultra confused]

First: the noise - horrendous scrabbling and squeaking behind the wall: off-putting, especially if in the dining room.

Second: the smell as it decomposes [Projectile]

Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :

Oh boy, the smell - we had a rat die between the floor boards. Nothing would mask the smell, & we had an overseas student staying.
And then after the smell - the flies!

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I had a rat in the compost bin, and saw it trek across the garden, so went out to buy a humane trap. This was hard. Nowhere local, in the country, had one, only oodles of poison and snap traps. Only in the depths of Sarf Lunn'n was one available. (I had worked out a place miles from houses or farm buildings for release.) I left it out a while for acclimatisation. Then I baited it. The bait vanished, the trap closed, but empty. Then it sprang before I got in the house, and the bait had moved, so I thought I had been careless and reset it. Same again, but the bait was wedged between two bars in a way that couldn't have happened accidentally. Woodmice, I think. They could get between the bars. I moved the trap to an area unfrequented by the mice.
Then my neighbour told me that her mouse poison had killed a rat. Oh well. Waste of £18.
I've lent the trap to a friend.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Penny S
WHY do you want a "humane" trap?

The world isn't short of rats (would that it were) and they are pests, VERMIN, that spread disease and cause costly damage - maybe not to you but to others who maybe can't afford it.

Diseases carried by rats include: Salmonella, Weils Disease (a type of jaundice affecting liver and kidneys - can be fatal if not treated early), Trichinosis (a roundworm, resistant to treatment) and Rat Fever - a form of typhus.

Rats roam across large territories: they can have a range of more than 3 kilometres.

They prefer meat to anything else and eat other small rodents, including shrews and voles, as well as catching freshwater crayfish and eating hatchlings of waterfowl and hen chicks, if they can get at them.

By all means give away your "humane" trap - but lay in a supply of proper rat poison because where you've had one you'll get more until you deal with the problem sensibly.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

I once had an apartment in an area where the local fire code forbid screen grating over exhaust vents. And so birds would regularly enter the exhaust vent from my kitchen stove and become trapped in the ductwork. Their scratching and flapping in an effort to get out was quite audible. And when they finally died in there, the odor was almost palpable.

Once I turned on the exhaust fan over my stove and ended up with chopped bird all over my kitchen.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Diseases carried by rats include:
{snip}
Trichinosis (a roundworm, resistant to treatment)...

Trichinosis is an disease caused by ingestion of the larvae of a trichina worm. It is contracted by eating raw or undercooked pork or game.

AFAIK rats have nothing to do with it.

Moo

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

I caught a rat in a humane cage once . There was now way I was going to let it out . In fact it would have been unwise to put your fingers anywhere near the cage . God's creature yes , but also a vicious and obnoxious one .
It went in a big tank of water for 10 minutes , (and I felt bad about it).

Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on :

No rats for me, but I had some mice at my last house. Snap traps worked well and instantly. I tried a sticky glue trap once...never again. Poor thing pulled one leg and half its skin off trying to get out of it. It was still alive when I found it several hours later and dispatched it with a solid whack from a shovel.

I knew it was in the glue trap the night before because my wife heard it squeeking. She had kept me up every night for the previous 3 nights every time she heard the scurrying in the walls or attic so I was exhausted and chose not to get up and kill it. I found it in the state described above the next morning. I could have ended the suffering earlier for it if I had gotten out of bed and finished it off with the mythical Shovel Of Doom. That was 7 years ago and I still feel bad about it. It's not the killing. I don't mind that. Mouse + my house = dead mouse. It was the needless suffering. Same with hunting. I hate when a shot goes bad and the animal is maimed and lives, or dies but only after extended suffering.

Personally, I'd never try to drown a rat or anything else. That's just cruel IMO. Find something fast. A heavy cinder block might work. My method of choice these days would be a .22 pistol with rat shot to the head. It's like a mini shotgun shell. Instant death for something that small.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

I spotted a rat in my kitchen once, and gave him a whack with a large plastic bin that I happened to be carrying without thinking. The poor dear survived that blow and was trying to crawl away, meaning I had to finish him off with more consciousness of my actions.

Oh well, all flesh is as grass. Sigh.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I am now the owner of 12 snap traps. Web sites say to bait them with delicious food for a week or two before setting. I have discovered rats eat but aren't enthusiastic about snickers candy bars (apparently tootsie roles, snickers etc are great for catching mice). They disdain green beans, love organic carrots, love sweet potatoes, had no interest in the bacon even though web pages say they like bacon - maybe they want me to cook it?

Some say glue traps are great for mice, I don't know anyone who used them successfully on rats. Lots of people say not to use poison because they crawl between walls to die and oh the stink!

They liked the peanut butter but licked it all up without triggering the trap (back when I had just two traps and didn't know I was supposed to have a dozen and turn them into feeding stations for a week.)

So the trick seems to be find a way to get food fixed to the trap in a way they have to fight to get, to trigger the trap.

They ate the sweet potato from most (not all) the traps last night. I'll set them tonight.

(Shudder, that means no real sleeping, listening for trap noise so I can get up and put the rat & trap in the trash before he wanders away dragging the trap somewhere inaccessible if I caught a leg or tail. I hate this!)

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I have discovered rats eat but aren't enthusiastic about snickers candy bars (apparently tootsie roles, snickers etc are great for catching mice). They disdain green beans, love organic carrots, love sweet potatoes, had no interest in the bacon even though web pages say they like bacon - maybe they want me to cook it?

You are going to catch some FAT rats!

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

I was re-reading some of the Aubrey - Maturin 19th century sailing books. Common was for the sailors to catch rats and eat them on shipboard. They renamed them "millers" and found this "soft tack" a welcome replacement for biscuit and salt meat.

I haven't eaten one myself, but my brother who lives in Taiwan does, and one of my daughters says guinea pig tastes like chicken.

Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on :

Word is out on the rat newswire. Buffet at Belle Ringer's house!

Posted by snowgoose (# 4394) on :

I killed some baby mice 15 years ago and still feel horrible about it. We caught them in a bag and tried to hit them quickly with a brick to get it over with quickly but it took longer than we thought. Honestly, those little things still haunt me.

Now when we get mice in the attic Gander sets spring traps. For bait he smears a walnut with peanut butter and sort of wedges it on so when the mouse pulls to get the walnut it springs. Spring traps kill (usually) instantly so we have decided that this is the most humane thing.

If they get into the house we don't have to worry about it because the cats get them.

We don't use poison because we are afraid one of our cats (3 inside, one outside) will be poisoned by eating a poisoned rodent. Hawks, owls, and so on are also at risk of being poisoned this way.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
So the trick seems to be find a way to get food fixed to the trap in a way they have to fight to get, to trigger the trap.

Years ago when I had field mice in my basement, I tied the bait to the trap with dental floss.

Moo

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Lomg ago, when I was on a holiday job, it became apparent that a mouse was on the loose in the dormitory - the little bite marks on the choccy biccy by someone's bed gave it away. So they put down a snap trap.
We all woke up in the night to the sound of the mouse struggling round on the floor trying to get free by lifting the trap and banging it down. Someone went for a man who dealt with it by hitting it with a broom. Several times. Before taking the whole thing away in a dustpan.
Hence the humane trap. This was an outside rat - and the only one, as it disappeared, no others turned up, and no neighbours saw any sign of another - and I didn't see any reason to kill it as it was posing no problem apart from its presence. If there had been more, or it showed signs of breaching the boundaries of the house, my attitude would have been different.
There were signs it had been living in the compost bin, so I hosed the bin for some time to make it an uncomfortable lodging.
Most of the problems to do with rats are due to us. I'm not going to label a beast vermin or a varmint unless it's doing verminous things, and this one wasn't. (Do they eat slugs, by any chance?)
A friend had them in the house (nowhere near here) - that calls for poison. I'm not going for snap traps - they aren't sure enough.

[ 02. October 2013, 07:53: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

The problem with poison is that if the animal dies in an inaccessible place, you have to put up with the smell of decay.

Moo

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

The other problem with poison is that it enters the food chain. Some other critter might come across the dead rodent, eat it, and get poisoned as well.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Tie it on with dental floss, what a great idea! One of my problems has been getting bait to stick to the trap so the critter has to work to get it - peanut butter he just licked off without tripping it.

I ended up not setting them last night, I was trying a new food - nuts - to see if I was getting them tightly adhered enough that the rat would pull the trap out of it's place, proving he would trip it.

Rat skipped the nuts, both pecans and almonds - almonds suggested by a pest company on YouTube. Went for the carrots.

Carrots I can tie on with dental floss easily, nuts kept breaking when I tried to jam them tightly into the little square hole in the trap.

One problem, they have changed the bait lever from what shows in the videos - used to be a raised prong you could stick into a food bit, but now it's a depressed little square with no prong to hold the food, and no instructions how to attach food securely.

Dental floss. Thanks!

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Belle Ringer
Try flour and water paste ?

If not that, honey or similar

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :

Belle Ringer, have you sold the movie rights to this saga yet [Biased]

Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on :

One other trap that I had lots of success with was electrocuting them. There are metal contacts on the bottom and plastic walls that force them to step on both panels when going for the bait. It completes the circuit and ZAP!. Runs on a couple of AA batteries and they claim it can get 100 or so on that pair of batteries. I nailed 3 or 4 with one.

They make larger ones for rats.

[ 02. October 2013, 23:30: Message edited by: monkeylizard ]

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
One other trap that I had lots of success with was electrocuting them. There are metal contacts on the bottom and plastic walls that force them to step on both panels when going for the bait. It completes the circuit and ZAP!. Runs on a couple of AA batteries and they claim it can get 100 or so on that pair of batteries. I nailed 3 or 4 with one.

They make larger ones for rats.

Jesus! This just gets worse and worse! Why not a trap with a guillotine? I know, I know... rats are vermin! They're like the juvenile delinquents of the animal kingdom, etc. etc. I had a rat or two once myself but then I got a cat and didn't have the rat problem anymore! Electrocuting rats, though!

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
Jesus! This just gets worse and worse! Why not a trap with a guillotine? I know, I know... rats are vermin! They're like the juvenile delinquents of the animal kingdom, etc. etc. I had a rat or two once myself but then I got a cat and didn't have the rat problem anymore! Electrocuting rats, though!

Electrocution is probably quicker and more humane than death by cat.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Last night I was frustrated with the whole thing and couldn't face what to do with a half dead rat in a snap trap at 2 AM. So I just fed them again. Stupid rat(s) didn't even eat the nuts! Just the carrots.

But tonight I was at rehearsal of music I can't stand ("worship leader" seems fond of lyrics with mixed metaphors and non-sense statements written to non-melodic lines) so I'm in a bad mood. So - 9 snap traps are baited with organic carrots (I treat my rats right), it's the one bait I've been able to jam into the trip lever tightly that the rat wants enough to pull the trap out of place tugging at the food.

Baited and set. Bar-B-Q long handled tongs at ready for picking up and disposing of rat and trap.

Now I won't sleep all night for listening.

Movie rights - a horror movie from a rat's viewpoint I hope!

I like the idea of the electric traps. Expensive but apparently effective. Snap traps to often don't kill right away.

New use for the worse of Contemporary Christian Music - put me in a killing mood!

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

If you have seriously damaged an animal on purpose, I think you have an ethical duty to kill it even if you find that inconvenient.

Constantly trapping the rats will not help, if you don't stop them getting in the first place. If you are not able to do this, you need to get professional assisstance. If that is difficult to afford, this is one of the things essential enough that it would be legitimate to ask your church for financial help.

Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:

quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
Jesus! This just gets worse and worse! Why not a trap with a guillotine? I know, I know... rats are vermin! They're like the juvenile delinquents of the animal kingdom, etc. etc. I had a rat or two once myself but then I got a cat and didn't have the rat problem anymore! Electrocuting rats, though!
Electrocution is probably quicker and more humane than death by cat.

But less natural as well. Interesting choice...

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Last night I was frustrated with the whole thing and couldn't face what to do with a half dead rat in a snap trap at 2 AM. So I just fed them again. Stupid rat(s) didn't even eat the nuts! Just the carrots.

But tonight I was at rehearsal of music I can't stand ("worship leader" seems fond of lyrics with mixed metaphors and non-sense statements written to non-melodic lines) so I'm in a bad mood. So - 9 snap traps are baited with organic carrots (I treat my rats right), it's the one bait I've been able to jam into the trip lever tightly that the rat wants enough to pull the trap out of place tugging at the food.

Baited and set. Bar-B-Q long handled tongs at ready for picking up and disposing of rat and trap.

Now I won't sleep all night for listening.

Movie rights - a horror movie from a rat's viewpoint I hope!

I like the idea of the electric traps. Expensive but apparently effective. Snap traps to often don't kill right away.

New use for the worse of Contemporary Christian Music - put me in a killing mood!

You fed them?! [Eek!]

Most animals will go where they know they'll get food and shelter - so one of the things you need to do is to take that away, not give them more of what they want!

There's some good advice on how to get rid of rats here, but it sounds like you've got a serious infestation and will need to pay someone to make them go away.

Tubbs

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
You fed them?! Most animals will go where they know they'll get food and shelter - so one of the things you need to do is to take that away, not give them more of what they want!

Got one! Poor thing.

The YouTube videos by pest control companies listed things to use as bait - like, chocolate for mice, fruits for rats - and said rats are very shy of anything new, so leave the traps out for a week or two with a small bite of food until they get used to seeing the traps as places safe to get a bite, then set them. (They say mice are curious, you don't need to train them to trust traps, rats you have to out-think.)

I've been guessing I had just one in the kitchen? He had gotten bold enough to pull at the food bait strongly enough to pull the trap out of place - that's what I wanted because just licking at it doesn't spring the trap.

Question is whether there are rats elsewhere too of was it just this one running all over the house at night. Anyway, the videos say to keep setting traps for a few weeks after the last one is caught. I need to look into other locations, too. I've been reluctant to set them in carpeted rooms.

I do need to figure out where they are getting in but I've been looking and had my yard guy looking, puzzled, wondering now if they could be coming in through the dryer vent or the roof and chimney?

"Everyone" has mice or rats this year, people who never had them before. We are all wondering why.

I need to unset the traps for the day so I don't step in one!

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

Where are you leaving the traps? The most effective place is against the wall as rats a partially sighted so they tend to keep close to the wall when possible, using their whiskers as a guide.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Belle, you really need to get real life help with this.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Belle, you really need to get real life help with this.

Problem is, there's one pest man in town, he shrugged and handed me half a dozen glue traps and left.

I do plan to call him again now that I have caught a few and can better describe exactly what I have. And to treat the termites he forgot to schedule a time to treat!

Been in this house 15 years, never had any of these problems before. Can I blame global warming?

I confess I did stick head in sand for a while hoping the critters would go away - and for several months there was no sign of them. I was again leaving potatoes and fruits out on the kitchen counter over night with no problem.

Well, now it's war.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

Have there been any floods in the wider vicinity? They move away from their usual haunts when something like that happens. Similarly, land being cleared, old buildings removed etc - anything that might have disturbed their old living spaces.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

"Everyone" has mice or rats this year, people who never had them before. We are all wondering why.

"Everyone" probably always had them but didn'
;t notice. Then someone starts talking about it so they pay attention and realise what those little noises are.

And you can't stop them coming in to a house if they want to, so once they are in the habit you just have to lock up all the food and get a cat. Or a professional exterminator eith Evil Poisons - but that's only temporary, if there is food and shelter they will be back.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

OK Belle Ringer, you have to get serious now, and the most important things to do going forward are these:

NEVER leave any food out in the open overnight - nothing, nada, rien
get into the habit of keeping dry goods - flour, dried beans & fruits, biscuits, rice, pasta - in sealed plastic boxes
make sure you don't leave any plates or dishes with food on them in the open
check that the lid of your garbage bin fits securely: if it doesn't have a clip put a brick on top
if you have a garden compost bin DO NOT put any food waste into it until the rat problem has been solved

As for where they are getting into the house, the drier vent is almost certain, plus the chimney if the fire is out.

FYI rats can get through any hole or gap that is as wide as their skull - that's about 1 inch or less.

Go round with your yardman and seal up - using fine-mesh chicken wire behind wood or metal plate - any gaps or holes.

Put traps into ALL the rooms - regardless of carpeting - and keep putting them in until you have had at least one week without catching anything.

I'd strongly urge you to find yourself a proper pest control man - the chap in your local town sounds hopeless: quite apart from anything else, glue traps are totally useless for rodents such as rats.

Above all, stick to the bulleted list above - I know it looks like a pain but you'll soon get used to it: and once you've got rid of the rats/mice STICK to the routine and you should stay pest free.

Good luck.

Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Belle, you really need to get real life help with this.
Problem is, there's one pest man in town, he shrugged and handed me half a dozen glue traps and left.

I do plan to call him again now that I have caught a few and can better describe exactly what I have. And to treat the termites he forgot to schedule a time to treat!

I think you should consider finding a pest control person from another town. You might get asked for a higher call-out fee - but maybe not if you suck up and ask for lots of business cards to give to all your friends who've been having problems!

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