Ship of Fools: Railways

Thread: Railways Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

[Big Grin]

....

Interesting Railways News: The Union Pacific Railroad in the US has (re-)acquired a Union Pacific Class 1 4-8-8-4 "Big Boy", #4014 which as been on static display in Los Angeles since the 1960's.

The locomotive WILL BE RESTORED TO WORKING ORDER!!!!

"Uncle Pete" runs an extensive steam excursion programme and currently has a 4-6-6-4 4664-3 Challenger #3985 and her sister, 4-8-4 Northern FEF-1 #844 operational.

Here's a video of the preliminary inspection: Gorgeous.

She is to be converted to an oil burner as coal locomotives have issues with cinders in current running conditions.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

As you take the Railjet from Wien Meidling to Budapest Keleti, be sure to glance out of the window at Hegyeshalom. A little sad.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
[...] "Uncle Pete" runs an extensive steam excursion programme [...]

No wonder he's got less time for hostly duties and pleasures. [Biased]

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

Thanks SPK, those links had me in mind of the amazing race across the continent at the end of Kipling's Captains Courageous.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

There's a story in today's Metro about a house for sale in South Perthshire complete with working scale railway ~ big enough to ride on . I 'll try to find the link later. (When not on phone )

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Here you are - lovely!

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

In other cheery news, the West Highland Line seems to be flourishing. We spent a pleasant day coinciding with it at points en route a couple of weeks ago. I have a shot of the up and down trains passing at Glenfinnan - but the best photo spot is Arasaig, where the locomotive stops briefly alongside the platform, as opposed to beyond it.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Have you ever been to the railroad museum in Sacramento California? It is fascinating. We went there on my nephew's birthday a few years ago.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

We had a holiday near York when I was in my teens, and it didn't surprise my mum or myself a single jot that the first excursion we made was to the National Railway Museum. [Roll Eyes]

Though we didn't want to admit it to my dad, we quite enjoyed it ... [Two face]

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Current visits to rail lines around here and when we were in Ironbridge this summer are to look at points and track. Lots of checking to look out for bullhead track to see what points it's using. The recent ride on the DLR around Poplar was again looking at how the track worked [Ultra confused]

(Well, I wasn't, but ...)

I really didn't want this bit of knowledge I'm acquiring.

Posted by Yam-pk (# 12791) on :

The "Lal Ratty"in Cumbria is a glorious way to spend the afternoon as well. Little trains, much steam, great countryside, lots of fun!

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :

I discovered this summer that you can get a direct train (well, as direct as you can get on a roundabout route) from Great Malvern to Brighton. Now Nimlet2, who lives to make long complicated rail journeys in which he can survey points, see lots of different operators' rolling stock, and reprise Great British Railway Journeys, is conducting a quiet but persistent campaign for his Christmas present to be a round trip Cambridge-Birmingham-Great Malveryn-Brighton-London-Cambridge.

Posted by hanginginthere (# 17541) on :

Mr hanginginthere maintains that Isaiah prophesied the building of the railways:

'Every valley shall be lifted up,
and every mountain and hill be made low;
the uneven ground shall become level,
and the rough places a plain.'

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Indeed, Terry Coleman in his book on Navvies writes of a clergyman (or possibly the navvy missionary Elizabeth Garnett) making the very similar point of suggesting that the navvies were "preparing the way" and doing the Lord's work, as per John the Baptist.

Unfortunately I cannot check this precisely as I lent my copy to someone and never got it back!

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Indeed, Terry Coleman in his book on Navvies writes of a clergyman (or possibly the navvy missionary Elizabeth Garnett) making the very similar point of suggesting that the navvies were "preparing the way" and doing the Lord's work, as per John the Baptist.

Unfortunately I cannot check this precisely as I lent my copy to someone and never got it back!

I have a copy, but it's, umm, somewhere, so it might take time to find it.

Meanwhile, my model railway is taking shape. About 2 feet of track in a shoebox! I'll try to provide a couple of pics one day.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

Talking of round trips, try Llandudno Junction - Blaenau Ffestiniog (Conwy Valley line); Blaenau - Porthmadog (Ffestiniog Railway); Porthmadog - Caernarfon (Welsh Highland Railway), then bus to Bangor and back on the main line to Llandudno Junc. It is a splendid journey and takes most of a day; timetables vary by the day of the week and the season, and sometimes it is only possible to do it the other way round, which in fact might be preferable especially on the Ffestiniog leg.

I did it at the beginning of July, the first real day of summer, and it was wonderful! Fish, chips and mushy peas in the station café at Porthmadog too!

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

According to the volunteer manning the tin tabernacle at Blists Hill this summer, those tin tabernacles were provided as temporary religious places for the small itinerant communities, like those of navvies.

Angloid, I managed bits of that route a few years back, with said currently rail mad offspring.

We also managed to change at Dovey Junction - against all advice

[ 14. September 2013, 16:14: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Meanwhile, my model railway is taking shape. About 2 feet of track in a shoebox! I'll try to provide a couple of pics one day.

We'll look forward to seeing that. Presumably it's Z gauge or else you have very large feet.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Here is an interesting set of webpages about Navvy Missions, especially in relation to the Great Central London Extension.

And here is a page about the Tin Tab. in Bury St. Edmunds.

[ 14. September 2013, 16:28: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

Being in Whitby in the early summer meant the compulsory ride on the North York Moors railway. Steam is good as a living museum, but I wouldn't like to see it return.

There is a short tunnel, more like a long bridge - only a couple of carriages long, on the NYM railway, just past Grosmont going out, but even here there was soot inside the carriages. I remember steam and I remember dirt. Not only in the trains either, it was a schoolboy dare to stand on a footbridge when a steam train went underneath. But living between Moreley and Standedge tunnels meant there were no train journeys that didn't involve choking.

Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
According to the volunteer manning the tin tabernacle at Blists Hill this summer, those tin tabernacles were provided as temporary religious places for the small itinerant communities, like those of navvies.

There is one of those churches that has been re-erected at Swanwick Junction on the preserved Midland Railway line. John Betjeman would have loved it.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.

I've always wondered that - especially as the first coach in a mainline excursion is always the "support coach", not open to the public.

There were some very nasty accidents due to asphyxiation: e.g. one at Bath Junction caused by a runaway after the crew passing out in Devonshire Tunnel on the SDJR (recently opened as a walkway); one at Alpine Tunnel on the narrow-gauge South Park line up in the Colorado Mountains; and a truly appalling one in Italy during WW2 which I think killed hundreds of people.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
There is one of those churches that has been re-erected at Swanwick Junction on the preserved Midland Railway line. John Betjeman would have loved it.

Holly Lodge Baptist Church in Ipswich (not a Railway Mission) was demolished and a new church built a couple of years ago. Well, it was only supposed to be "temporary"! The Swanwick Tin Tab. is great, there is another one at the Museum of East Anglian Life at Stowmarket.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Meanwhile, my model railway is taking shape. About 2 feet of track in a shoebox! I'll try to provide a couple of pics one day.
We'll look forward to seeing that. Presumably it's Z gauge or else you have very large feet.

I do have large feet, but it's narrow gauge rather than Z. There is a passenger 'service' and a goods shed, which scales as only slightly bigger than a garden shed.

Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.

That's simple - because they're not allowed to ride on the engine. And if they were, it's a crowded and uncomfortable place, designed for the use of two reasonably fit men and maybe an Inspector in a bowler hat.

When on a steam train I like to travel next to an open window, as I enjoy the sound and the smell. So does my wife, strangely enough. This is what marks out a steam enthusiast.

Frankly I would much prefer to travel from Manchester to London by a steam train taking four hours and with a dining car, than in half the time riding in one of Mr Branson's mobile torture chambers. But it would be a sad world if we were all alike.

[ 14. September 2013, 18:11: Message edited by: Sighthound ]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.

Railways don't begin and end with locomotives. I'd like to see more older rolling stock but old wooden things don't last the way that old metal things do, so there are plenty of locomotives but too few historic carriages (IMHO). Maybe we should build replicas of these instead of replica locomotives?

If you are lucky enough to be on a train drawn by a decent-sized locomotive in really good condition you get a nice back-and-forth motion. That doesn't happen often on preserved railways, many of which are limited to 25mph, but there's also the sound and the smell as you are carried along.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

In July, I was excited to ride three trains. One was a cog railway (Pike's Peak), which I rode last fifteen years ago.

The Royal Gorge train was nice, but my favorite was in Leadville, Colorado. The first two pictures show the old engine on display. I thought you train folks might like that. The other car was the one I rode to the top of a mountain so I could zip line back down. [Biased]

I have more pictures if you like!

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I'd like to see more older rolling stock but old wooden things don't last the way that old metal things do, so there are plenty of locomotives but too few historic carriages (IMHO).

Which is why the Bluebell Railway or the Isle of Wight are nicer than many other railways, however excellent. Of course those that got in early (back in the 60s) had the advantage - hence some nice stock on the Severn Valley, the North Norfolk Quadarts, etc. But no point in doing all that work on wooden stock unless you've good a nice shed to keep it in.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:

The Royal Gorge train was nice, but my favorite was in Leadville, Colorado.

Where I have stayed! (many years ago). But the train I took was the Georgetown Loop.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.
Railways don't begin and end with locomotives. I'd like to see more older rolling stock but old wooden things don't last the way that old metal things do, so there are plenty of locomotives but too few historic carriages (IMHO). Maybe we should build replicas of these instead of replica locomotives?

Perhaps another reason locomotives are preserved/replicated more often is they are viewed as more exciting/interesting?

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I'd like to see more older rolling stock but old wooden things don't last the way that old metal things do, so there are plenty of locomotives but too few historic carriages (IMHO).
Which is why the Bluebell Railway or the Isle of Wight are nicer than many other railways, however excellent. Of course those that got in early (back in the 60s) had the advantage - hence some nice stock on the Severn Valley, the North Norfolk Quadarts, etc. But no point in doing all that work on wooden stock unless you've good a nice shed to keep it in.

Which of course we at the SVR have...

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

No boasting, now ...

But it must be heart-rending for some preservationists to painstakingly restore a wooden carriage only to see it slowly rot away under a tarpaulin.

Mind you Mk.1 suburbans are hardly durable ...

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Somewhere in Transylvania, in a deep and narrow valley, the train I was on was stationary for a while next to a nicely maintained steam locomotive on a short stretch of track. I should have a photo somewhere.

When I was young, in Folkestone, the Lord of the Manor, Lord Radnor, had a miniature train which ran through a cutting along part of the Undercliffe, which he drove himself, with child passengers (who paid, of course). It only went forward and backwards.

And there was a train on a sort of Stonehenge trackway in the grounds of Tonbridge Castle, where passengers sat astride. I sort of expect these things to still be around, but they aren't.

And I learned about garden railway models when I visited Diana Gould (of the Belgrano) to tell her of my Dad's death (they were friends at church), and saw her husband Clifford's layout. He was, by then, confined to a bed in the living room, and could only look at it from the window. Now she's dead, I wonder what happened there.

[ 15. September 2013, 10:28: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Perhaps another reason locomotives are preserved/replicated more often is they are viewed as more exciting/interesting?

There are enthusiasts for just about everything, which is why the North York Moors Railway regularly holds vintage diesel events. Anyone for Deltics?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Lord Radnor, had a miniature train which ran through a cutting along part of the Undercliffe, which he drove himself, with child passengers (who paid, of course). It only went forward and backwards.

Unlike the proverbial "train now arriving at platforms 5,6 & 7" which was coming in sideways.

I had an experience like your Transylvanian one, about 10 years ago in Hungary. We drew in to Godollo, en route from Eger to Budapest, to find a steam special simmering on the adjacent line. Unfortunately we left before it started up, so we never got the steam train sounds.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Anyone for Deltics?

Yay! Had a ride right along the old Platform 10 at Kings Cross in the cab of "Alycidon" when I was about 13. Happily it still exists, on the Nene Valley.

The "Deltics" seemed much more glamorous than the "Peaks" on our Midland line. And - just once - we saw the late lamented DP2 at the "Cross" (but didn't manage to get aboard).

Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :

On the question of wooden rolling stock, it is a neat question. Arguably wooden parts are easier to repair than metal, which can rust away to dust.

In an ideal world all the stock would kept kept under cover, and painted at least every three years. Sadly, this is not an ideal world, and the money rarely runs to such luxuries.

Where steel stock scores is that it usually is safer in a high-speed collision, something that doesn't really happen on preserved lines, given they are generally limited to 25 mph.

What saddens me is that the old stock is so much more comfortable than the modern stuff, which seems to be designed around people of restricted growth. The main line 3rd class carriages of 1910 were much better designed from the point of view of comfort. They also had adequate windows, whereas we seem to be headed in the direction of airliner style portholes.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Anyone for Deltics?
Yay! Had a ride right along the old Platform 10 at Kings Cross in the cab of "Alycidon" when I was about 13. Happily it still exists, on the Nene Valley.

The "Deltics" seemed much more glamorous than the "Peaks" on our Midland line. And - just once - we saw the late lamented DP2 at the "Cross" (but didn't manage to get aboard).

The Deltics made a noise like no other locomotive, thanks to their marvellous engines! For a long time they were the only locomotives cleared for 100mph running in Britain and I travelled behind them quite a bit in the 1970's. Better still was waiting at Newark Northgate station when one roared past at something close to full speed. All locomotives look big, but even with Britain's limited loading gauge these looked huge!

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:

What saddens me is that the old stock is so much more comfortable than the modern stuff, which seems to be designed around people of restricted growth. The main line 3rd class carriages of 1910 were much better designed from the point of view of comfort. They also had adequate windows, whereas we seem to be headed in the direction of airliner style portholes.

Obviously the triumph of profit over people. People in the 19th and early 20th centuries were on average considerable smaller than we are too.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Modern seats only allow you to sit upright and not move around much, don't they. Only just realised that, reading this.

And they are more like bus seats where if you find yourself sitting next to the sort of man who absolutely must sit with his legs at 90 degrees, you are pushed off the edge. (If female.) And there's no room between opposite seats to stretch your legs out comfortably.

Torture.

[ 15. September 2013, 18:49: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :

The appalling seats are one of the reasons I now only travel by train if I really have to. Even road coaches are generally more comfortable.

(For me to say this is quite something - at one time I would scratch my head at why people didn't travel by train, given that it was quicker and more comfortable.)

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

I wish we still had railways. Mostly the small branch lines are all ripped up, and the main lines out west (Canada) transport things like oil, various grains, containers that will be picked up by trucks later. Passenger rail service - really does not exist anymore. I envy any country with any passenger service at all. As it stands, we travel by passenger car. When we go to our cabin for example, it is 350 km. By car we plan on 3½ hours. These are 2 lane highways, one lane each way, and there are no shoulders, just carriage ways. Thus, 105 to 110 km/hr on a 100 km/hr limit highway is all you get. I have gone there by bus, but it stops in every little town, so that's a 6 hour journey.

I remember as a child we could catch the 7:30 train, walk to a lake, swim, picnic, etc, and catch the 6:15 home to the city. That does not exist and it makes me pine for olden days.

May God bless everyone who has the option of rail travel, and may they be truly thankful, and stop me from being truly envious.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
In July, I was excited to ride three trains. One was a cog railway (Pike's Peak), which I rode last fifteen years ago.

The Royal Gorge train was nice, but my favorite was in Leadville, Colorado. The first two pictures show the old engine on display. I thought you train folks might like that. The other car was the one I rode to the top of a mountain so I could zip line back down.

I have more pictures if you like!

I did a tour of Colorado with the Electric Railway Association about 25 years ago. Apart from the cheap thrill of waiting for a train to tour the new Denver transit system and informing the other people at the stop that this was a private car, the most memorable ride was on the small open carriage Fort Collins trolley as it whipped through the median trees in mid summer.
I compared notes with my mother who had been taken on a tour of Colorado by her father on his railroad pass in 1925. We had ridden on some of the same trains.. Royal Gorge and the Pikes Peak cog railway, but they had disappeared and then reincarnated in the intervening decades.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:

The Royal Gorge train was nice, but my favorite was in Leadville, Colorado.
Where I have stayed! (many years ago). But the train I took was the Georgetown Loop.

Did you take the mine tour? I was a mine tour guide at the mine between Georgetown and Silver Plume for six summers. I bet the conductors' jokes haven't changed since you took the train- I heard them 5 times a day (so about 25 times a week) and I swear they never changed.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I do recall a tour guide assembling our little group - maybe we were about to go into a mine - and asking 'Where are you folks from?' - 'Scotland' - 'Great! Enjoy your visit' - 'And you're from?' - 'Denver'. - 'Welcome to Colorado'.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:

The Royal Gorge train was nice, but my favorite was in Leadville, Colorado.
Where I have stayed! (many years ago). But the train I took was the Georgetown Loop.
Did you take the mine tour? I was a mine tour guide at the mine between Georgetown and Silver Plume for six summers. I bet the conductors' jokes haven't changed since you took the train- I heard them 5 times a day (so about 25 times a week) and I swear they never changed.

We didn't take the mine tour. I don't remember the jokes but they were probably period. Even the RR was an irresistible tangent off the main focus of the group which is trolleys and electric transit.
It wasn't till I was on the San Francisco Tour and we were stuck waiting for traffic on some rarely used route and the guy in front of me started comparing pension vesting with the trolley driver in a rich Bronx accent that I realized I had indeed been in the habit of going on a motorman's holiday. ;-)

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I do recall a tour guide assembling our little group - maybe we were about to go into a mine - and asking 'Where are you folks from?' - 'Scotland' - 'Great! Enjoy your visit' - 'And you're from?' - 'Denver'. - 'Welcome to Colorado'.

Thank goodness it wasn't a life or death question!

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
What saddens me is that the old stock is so much more comfortable than the modern stuff

Not always: see this ; also the LNER Quadarts which were a real squash! But they weren't "main line" stock.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

AIUI (and helpfully for the modern operators) it's all to do with fire risk. The carriages I used to travel home from school in in the early 90s had great bouncy seats and plenty of legroom. But apparently the upholstery was very flammable.

I do recall travelling to London from Birmngham in the eighties as a youngster in corridor stock, which would be nice to have back....

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
...May God bless everyone who has the option of rail travel, and may they be truly thankful, and stop me from being truly envious.

Thank you.

We have Indian Railways one of the biggest systems in the world - it is brilliant and the booking staff are incredibly helpful and knowledgeable. The longest journey we have done was 38 hours but the longest possible on a through train is about 5 days from Jammu Tawi [Jammu and Kashmir State] and Kanyakumari [in Tamil Nadu], at the southern tip of the subcontinent.

There are nine classes, though not all available on all trains. A long distance rail journey is a bit like being in a moving Indian village - all human life is here!

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
May God bless everyone who has the option of rail travel, and may they be truly thankful, and stop me from being truly envious.

Here’s last Friday night. Feel free to be envious.

Left office at 4, caught train. Arrived at platform to catch connection, but discovered that the line was closed owing to a freight train "having dropped something on the line" so no movement at all and all trains in that direction cancelled. No replacement coaches. Went into town for an early dinner and came back at 6.30ish, the line not having been sorted out before then. Got a late-running train (the next one was cancelled which would have meant an hour or more’s wait on a cold, rainy evening) and got stuck in a queue of trains because of "incidents with axles on two trains" further up the line, so stopped at every signal until the journey stretched to three times the usual time. Got home at 8, which was four hours after I’d left the office. All part of a commuter’s day, but at least I had had dinner and managed to get a seat on the train: some people had to stand for over an hour. (These trains are always crowded and cancellations never help as you then get two trains' worth of people trying to cram on to one.)

Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on :

Late to this conversation but just wanted to add that my mother worked at the Baldwin Locomotive Works in the 40's before she headed west when my dad shipped out with the Sea-bees (US Navy Construction Battalions) to the South Pacific. She had great stories of huge locos moving along the assembly line, etc..

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Anyone for Deltics?
Yay! Had a ride right along the old Platform 10 at Kings Cross in the cab of "Alycidon" when I was about 13. Happily it still exists, on the Nene Valley.

The "Deltics" seemed much more glamorous than the "Peaks" on our Midland line. And - just once - we saw the late lamented DP2 at the "Cross" (but didn't manage to get aboard).

'Deltics' were/are easily my favourite diseasels. The noise one of them,'Black Watch' made filling Newcastle station when I was a small child made a great impression on me. I was there again on the Last Day of the Deltics around 1981 and saw Alycidon, etc. My last 'Deltic' run in ordinary service was with 'Gordon Highlander' between Edinburgh and Newcastle.

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
On the question of wooden rolling stock, it is a neat question. Arguably wooden parts are easier to repair than metal, which can rust away to dust.

In an ideal world all the stock would kept kept under cover, and painted at least every three years. Sadly, this is not an ideal world, and the money rarely runs to such luxuries.

Where steel stock scores is that it usually is safer in a high-speed collision, something that doesn't really happen on preserved lines, given they are generally limited to 25 mph.

What saddens me is that the old stock is so much more comfortable than the modern stuff, which seems to be designed around people of restricted growth. The main line 3rd class carriages of 1910 were much better designed from the point of view of comfort. They also had adequate windows, whereas we seem to be headed in the direction of airliner style portholes.

The North Yorkshire Moors Railway now has enough LNER Gresley 'teak' coaches' to form a 6-7 coach rake. The restoration of the interiors as well as the exteriors has been done to a high standard. This is particularly true of the latest 'Gresley' to enter service this year after its restoration.

Ssadly they don't now have a resident locomotive in LNER livery and so a nice 1930s/40s train has something in BR black or green at the front...

Posted by Kyzyl (# 374) on :

This is a great trip if you're ever in New Mexico. It is the train featured in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

Cumbres and Toltec

Posted by HughWillRidmee (# 15614) on :

First SoF visit after a week on the Rhine - including travelling the rack railway up Drachenfels and a journey on the Vulkan Express.

I used to have a neighbour who owned two working restaurant cars on the Watercress line (he also had a third share in a restored Routemaster).

No mention of West Somerset railway? and if you're in the vicinity of Lal Ratty why not leave the car at Haverthwaite station - travel the steam train to Lakeside, cruise the lake and return in style to your car.

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HughWillRidmee:
First SoF visit after a week on the Rhine - including travelling the rack railway up Drachenfels and a journey on the Vulkan Express.

I used to have a neighbour who owned two working restaurant cars on the Watercress line (he also had a third share in a restored Routemaster).

No mention of West Somerset railway? and if you're in the vicinity of Lal Ratty why not leave the car at Haverthwaite station - travel the steam train to Lakeside, cruise the lake and return in style to your car.

I went to the Lakeside & Haverthwaite Railway last October (for the nth time!). The significance was (apart from it was raining!) that I finally managed to be hauled by one of the Fairburn 2-6-4Ts (No. 42085 as it happens)
[Yipee]

I have only been to the West Somerset once, in 1994. I liked it, and had the S&DJR 2-8-0 and the visiting SVR Standard 4MT No. 75069. [Smile]

Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
May God bless everyone who has the option of rail travel, and may they be truly thankful, and stop me from being truly envious.
Here’s last Friday night. Feel free to be envious.

...

Wow. It certainly sounds like your rail operator could do with an infusion of people from the bus industry who actually have a customer service ethic.

The problem we have in Adelaide is different. At the start of this year the most heavily used of the four commuter lines was closed for a full track rebuild, extension, electrification, resignalling and a major grade separation project to remove a flat crossing with a busy freight route. It was supposed to have been reopened at the start of September but there have been some awful bungles by three of the contractors along the way and the department of transport has lost control of the process. It was only announced yesterday by the minister that it will be closed until some time in November, over two months beyond the original schedule.

When it does open on the new extension to Seaford though, it will feature an amazing view from this magnificent 1.2 kilometre bridge that is the second-longest of its type in the world.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
May God bless everyone who has the option of rail travel, and may they be truly thankful, and stop me from being truly envious.
Here’s last Friday night. Feel free to be envious.

...
Wow. It certainly sounds like your rail operator could do with an infusion of people from the bus industry who actually have a customer service ethic.

I really hope you were being ironic, because over here First bus company run trains. In any week I can exoect at least two trains to be either late, missed or with fewer than the usual amount of carriages. It Fist Transpennine Express is typical of how bus companies run trains then they should be banned from running trains.

Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on :

No.

In South Australia, the best thing ever to happen to the railways was the commuter lines getting split from the regional/interstate lines and merged into the bus/tram organisational structure, instead of the old rail hands treating passengers as inconveniences getting in the way of playing trains. It's even survived the privatisation of the bus system to private contractors, one of the three bus contractors actually has a higher on time percentage (which is increasing each year, in all three of their contract areas) than the government-run trains and trams, despite the trains and trams having a more generous definition of "on time" than the buses do.

Obviously First isn't a proper customer-focused bus company, or the FTPE staff are the same old rail staff running things as before it was owned by First. Aren't there laws in the UK giving employees the right to stay on when a contract changes so the new operator can't clean out house even if they want to?

[ 20. September 2013, 02:32: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
May God bless everyone who has the option of rail travel, and may they be truly thankful, and stop me from being truly envious.

I may be about to rub salt in your wound, but here goes.

On Monday I took the train to Toronto. I live close enough to the CN, former Grand Trunk mainline between Toronto, Montreal that there are eight VIA Rail trains a day at the station where I get on.

VIA recently bought some new cars for its Corridor trains and they are Budd Stainless Steel products, secondhand. The train to Toronto had those (beautiful!!!) and the train back had LRC cars (big windows). Toronto Union Station is being upgraded and expanded.

Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :

Had a spin on th SVR yesterday, for th first time in a decade. I volunteered there from age 10-19 but then moved away. Erlestoke Manor with the teaks down to Bridgnorth, then back up in some Mk1 corridors behind 2857. Managed a compartment to myself both ways....

Posted by pererin (# 16956) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
I really hope you were being ironic, because over here First bus company run trains. In any week I can exoect at least two trains to be either late, missed or with fewer than the usual amount of carriages.

And last night, my Arriva bus company local train got held at Cardiff Central so that a late First bus company train to Swansea could go in front. [Mad]

(Arriva's usual problem is bad stopping patterns that are there for historical reasons. They really need to tear up the entire timetable for the Main Line and start again.)

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Had a spin on th SVR yesterday

I'll be there tomorrow for the autumn gala.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

I actually live in a railway station. Just sayin'. [Cool]

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
I actually live in a railway station. Just sayin'.

Those benches are hard though.

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :

[Big Grin]

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

There's supposed to be a multi-part documentary on FGW running on Channel 5 at present. Does anyone know when it is? I was told Thursday at 9 but no sign of it.

Tonight's commute, incidentally, involved a cancelled connection meaning an hour's wait (not enough members of train crew to run the train, apparently this was the second time today). The next train then had to try to fit not only two trains' worth of regular commuters and weekend travellers on board but also a huge group of teenagers who'd just been to the university's admission day. It wasn't physically possible, and I didn't get on that one either.

I'm not complaining, just resigned to the fact that at least once a week it always seems to go wrong. If only they'd schedule this for, say, a Wednesday at 11 am or something we'd know to expect it and could all work round it.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Tuesday night there were particularly bad delays after someone had been taken ill on the tube line. The platform was so packed I only got onto the fourth tube train. And they terminated it 3 stops from home after holding for 10 minutes at a previous stop to get the right crew in the right places.

The tubes are so busy though, with a train every 1 or 2 minutes on most parts of the line, that taking a train out of service or someone pulling the customer alarm causes delays

Apparently the picture I posted to Flickr looked like the Toronto transit system.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Personally I've always found the East Coast first class perfectly acceptable. They can sometimes be a little tardy with the complimentary drinks trolley between York and Doncaster, but apart from that.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

When visiting North Wales, folks might like to visit the Gorseddau Junction Railways - but bring walking boots, and don't wait for a train - last one left 130 years ago. The 'Prince of Wales' slate quarry at the head of the Pennant valley is especially interesting - take a torch, good wellies, and try not to fall down any of the many deep holes...

Posted by HughWillRidmee (# 15614) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Had a spin on th SVR yesterday
I'll be there tomorrow for the autumn gala.

Had a long weekend away and managed to get a late ride on the GWR - Diesel (37215?) Toddington to Winchcombe, returning behind Thomas the Tank Engine! Then steamed out and back on the last daily working on the Toddington Narrow Gauge Railway - complete with visit to engine shed and signal box.

Posted by Barnabas Aus (# 15869) on :

Retirement is a wonderful thing - since early 2011 I have managed to travel on the following -

UK: Bodmin and Wenford Mothering Sunday luncheon train, Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland Railways, Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway and two visits to NRM including Tornado re-launch day

North America: White Pass and Yukon, Rocky Mountaineer and The Skeena, along with assorted Vancouver Skytrain journeys

Australia: Adelaide to Darwin aboard The Ghan

Along with many lineside photo opportunities as I have travelled, my railfanning is at its richest in many years.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
What saddens me is that the old stock is so much more comfortable than the modern stuff
Not always: see this ; also the LNER Quadarts which were a real squash! But they weren't "main line" stock.

I suspect the Southern defended itself by saying 'don't you know there's a war on?'

One difference from the present that makes a difference is that except on the GWR, mainline corridor stock usually assumed 3 per side not 4, with folding armrests allowing the compartment to accommodate 8 if required.

However, for a child, the strap windows were very difficult to work, especially since you couldn't usually carriage doors from the inside. You had to open the window and then turn the handle on the outside. I once nearly got carried on to the next station, before someone on the platform realised what was happening.

That incidentally nerd alert was in a half-corridor carriage. It had an internal corridor, but no vestibule to the next one. At each end the corridor ended with a door into a compartment that was the full width of the train.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
However, for a child, the strap windows were very difficult to work, especially since you couldn't usually carriage doors from the inside. You had to open the window and then turn the handle on the outside. I once nearly got carried on to the next station, before someone on the platform realised what was happening.

I still hate those doors. The straps may have gone but the no-handle-on-the-inside type can still be found on FGW HSTs in daily use - the old slam-door ones that I think used to be InterCity trains before they got repainted. Very awkward to use.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

I loved those doors, time as a young teen was spent travelling with my head out of the window. At least on the journey home — I got filthy.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Yes, I did that too - loved the breeze as you went along on a summer's day but the smuts in the eyes were something else. But even that could be better than the fog of cigarette smoke that sometimes built up inside the carriages.

Cigarette smoke, diesel, engine oil, coffee, stale air: that mixture used to be the smell of a railway station. Add "stale upholstery" for the smell of a train journey. It would cling to your clothes, as well.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

However, for a child, the strap windows were very difficult to work, especially since you couldn't usually carriage doors from the inside. You had to open the window and then turn the handle on the outside. I once nearly got carried on to the next station, before someone on the platform realised what was happening.

Not just on those carriages, but on modern ones as well. Madame and I recall standing at the door of a carriage on an HST waiting for the doors to open so we could alight. Doors didn't open, no handle so we could open them, so we ended up pressing a button. Turns out that that was the emergency stop, so at least we got some attention.

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
However, for a child, the strap windows were very difficult to work, especially since you couldn't usually carriage doors from the inside. You had to open the window and then turn the handle on the outside. I once nearly got carried on to the next station, before someone on the platform realised what was happening.
I still hate those doors. The straps may have gone but the no-handle-on-the-inside type can still be found on FGW HSTs in daily use - the old slam-door ones that I think used to be InterCity trains before they got repainted. Very awkward to use.

My dad had trouble with one of these. He was in 1st class (he's 81, he deserves it!) and no-one else was around to help him with the door. He couldn't manage to open it and no-one could hear him shouting for help.

Hence an unscheduled trip from Bridgend to Port Talbot and back!

Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Not just on those carriages, but on modern ones as well. Madame and I recall standing at the door of a carriage on an HST waiting for the doors to open so we could alight. Doors didn't open, no handle so we could open them, so we ended up pressing a button. Turns out that that was the emergency stop, so at least we got some attention.

I once surprised a Japanese tourist encountering those doors. I was arriving at Birmingham Moor Street, in a tearing hurry since my train from New Street left in four minutes. We pull in to the platform, and I'm second in line at the door, behind said tourist. When the train stops she just stood there waiting, unaware of how you open the doors. Since I was in such a rush, I pushed past her, opened the window then opened the door and ran off.

I did manage to make my connection, but only just. As I was coming down the stairs at New Street, the train door closing alarms were going. (No manual doors there!) I threw myself through the nearest door as it was shutting.

Amy

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Coming back from Cornwall to London, we had a pleasant time sharing a carriage with an Indian architect (with turban and full beard) who shared some details of his latest projects a few years ago. We also found plenty to eat and drink in the catering carriage.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

For someone who gets bored of train talk quickly I've travelled some of the really famous routes:

Glasgow to Mallaig - the Fort William to Mallaig stretch is the West Highland Railway and is stunning. The only reason we (friend and I off walking and camping on Skye) didn't head to the observation car was the over-excited American did and I was already tempted to push her off the train.

The West Highland Railway - the steam train that travels up Snowdon from Caernarfon - we (daughter and I) only went as far as the Snowdon Rangers stop

The Cambrian Coastline - we travelled from Aberystwyth changing at Dovey Junction (against all recommendations but timing was tight at Machynlleth) and up to Criccieth and not as far as Pwlhelli sadly.

The Tarka Line - that one is in Devon and was the best way of getting to Barnstaple, honestly

The Tyne Valley line - that one runs from Newcastle to Carlisle and is stunning too.

I usually travel them going places to do something else, like walk ...

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Totally agree about Glasgow-Mallaig. My one experience on it was quite splendid.
Also the Kyle of Lochalsh (sp?) to Inverness, with rhododendrons higher than the train in bloom along the way.
Inverness was brightened by ducks on the platform, and by a Loch Ness 'monster' selling tour tickets, actually a teenager in a green dinosaur suit.

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :

My best train ride was from Bulawayo to Vic Falls in Zimbabwe. Don't know how old the train is, but it clangs and moves and bucks... It still has RR signs everywhere — Rhodesian Railroads. The trip is very slow, hardly more than 20mph, but that doesn't matter, because you're in a sleeping cabin (the interior of which hasn't changed in decades) watching the zebras and antilopes as you pass by. Splendid!

I'd say my second most interesting train ride was from Bangkok to Kanchanaburi, going over the bridge over the River Kwai. I also did some train rides in Russia, going from St. Petersburg to can'trememberwhere.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:

The Tyne Valley line - that one runs from Newcastle to Carlisle and is stunning too.

Very nice, and worth breaking your journey at Haltwhistle.

Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Being in Whitby in the early summer meant the compulsory ride on the North York Moors railway. Steam is good as a living museum, but I wouldn't like to see it return.

There is a short tunnel, more like a long bridge - only a couple of carriages long, on the NYM railway, just past Grosmont going out, but even here there was soot inside the carriages. I remember steam and I remember dirt. Not only in the trains either, it was a schoolboy dare to stand on a footbridge when a steam train went underneath. But living between Moreley and Standedge tunnels meant there were no train journeys that didn't involve choking.

Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.

As a director of a steam railway I can assure you they don't. The steam enthusiasts are in the fields with their cameras. It's the families that are on the train.

It's quite different with diesel enthusiasts. They insist on getting into the train but they try to climb out through the windows once it has got under way. And flailing. Lots of flailing.

Diesel enthusiasts are much better for the coffers; but they are a very strange lot!

Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :

Anyone getting on the Welsh Highland Railway expecting to go up Snowdon will be disappointed. Though it does serve the foot of the mountain at Rhyd Ddu. (From whence a path runs to the summit, for the fit and able only.) Then it goes on via Beddgelert to Porthmadog, where it makes a physical connection with the Ffestiniog Railway. A beautiful ride, although roughly the price of going to a Premier League football match if you do the full trip.

[ 30. September 2013, 08:40: Message edited by: Sighthound ]

Posted by Alaric the Goth (# 511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Being in Whitby in the early summer meant the compulsory ride on the North York Moors railway. Steam is good as a living museum, but I wouldn't like to see it return.

There is a short tunnel, more like a long bridge - only a couple of carriages long, on the NYM railway, just past Grosmont going out, but even here there was soot inside the carriages. I remember steam and I remember dirt. Not only in the trains either, it was a schoolboy dare to stand on a footbridge when a steam train went underneath. But living between Moreley and Standedge tunnels meant there were no train journeys that didn't involve choking.

Can someone tell me why the real steam enthusiasts insist on being in the worst place to see the locomotive — in the train.
As a director of a steam railway I can assure you they don't. The steam enthusiasts are in the fields with their cameras. It's the families that are on the train.

It's quite different with diesel enthusiasts. They insist on getting into the train but they try to climb out through the windows once it has got under way. And flailing. Lots of flailing.

Diesel enthusiasts are much better for the coffers; but they are a very strange lot!

Can't speak for diesel enthusiasts (OK I AM one when it comes to Deltics and one or two other classes) but my aim as a steam enthusiast is to travel behind as many different steam locos as I can and I am well past the 100 mark now!

Are you a K&WVR director? PM me if you don't want to admit this in public! I am a long-standing member but not (yet!) a volunteer.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

The New York Times has an interesting article on how the New York Subway dealt with and recovered from Hurricane Sandy and how it might deal with Surving another Hurricane
(paywall after a limited number of articles)

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Last night we had winds of 60-80 mph with gusts to 129mph over Southern England and South Wales. Most train services into and out of London were cancelled well into this morning, though many are running now. There is a "storm" about whether the railway companies were over caustious.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Not an easy one to call - you're "damned if you do and damned if you don't". It would only need one train to hit a tree and crash down an embankment for people to say they had been too gung-ho about things.

I think looking at a national network - including rural locations which may be at a distance from towns or even access roads - is very different to looking at an urban transit system.

Here is part of the current announcement from our local operator: "Engineers are making their way to the damaged part of the railway where it is safe to do and we are continuing to assess the damage". That seems fair to me.

allegedly one train ran early this morning on a branch line in Somerset, it had to stop several times so that the crew could cut up and remove trees from the line. Apparently they did so while singing the "Lumberjack Song"!

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

No, the railway companies weren't cautious having seen the pictures of the debris that has had to be cleared this morning. Chiltern Railways announced this morning (on twitter) that it wasn't as bad as it had been made out and they are the one line that had a train collision with a tree. 18 trees on that line alone.

The Metro reported 40 trees blocking commuter routes.

I can look around and see trees and branches down all around here, and I haven't gone into the Forest yet.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Chiltern Railways announced this morning (on twitter) that it wasn't as bad as it had been made out and they are the one line that had a train collision with a tree.

Not the only one, FGW hit a tree near Ivybridge in Devon too - admittedly the train was empty. I think the issue is that damage was patchy - here it wasn't too bad but things were much worse 10 miles away, it seems.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Not an easy one to call - you're "damned if you do and damned if you don't". It would only need one train to hit a tree and crash down an embankment for people to say they had been too gung-ho about things.

Precisely. It's a pain in the backside for commuters but faced with a choice between a revised timetable/cancellation of train and the alternative of being stuck on a train for 2-3 hours while they try to clear a tree from the line seems a pretty easy choice to me.

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