Thread: Daylight wasting Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by NJA (# 13022) on
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Can someone remind me why I now have to wake up to light when I don't need it and have darkness from 5pm when I want light?
Is it really because children in the north of Scotland can't use reflective clothing/strips and torches/lights?
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Can someone remind me why I now have to wake up to light when I don't need it and have darkness from 5pm when I want light?
If you wish to whinge, Hell is that way ------>
Any further complaints should be addressed in that direction.
Anyway, I like it that way. I can get to the station in daylight in the morning and I like dark evenings. I do night photography and enjoy it. Night is beautiful, with amber streetlights, violet and jet shadows, silver and white lights, and things can look quite different. Shadows stand out in sharp relief, rain on a night pavement can make it come alive with colour and interest. There's quite a lot to see if you look for it.
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
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Research has been around for at least 2 decades to show that if there is a choice between going to work in the dark or coming home in the dark, the first option is preferable because people are more alert at the beginning of the day, whereas after a long working day they are more likely to lose concentration and thus there will be more accidents.
In the UK this was borne out when we had the couple of years without the clocks going back and the overall accident rate fell.
However, none of this cuts any ice with the Scots, who insist that its unreasonable to expect them and, particularly, their children to wait until 10am for daylight.
And of course, more daylight at the end of the day would give more opportunity for after-school sport which might also enable children in areas with high obesity rates to burn off some calories - again, not popular in the home of the deep-fried Mars bar.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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So, do we have any remarks on G*MT that are not merely Scots-bashing?
*that'll be Greenwich, not Greenock.
Posted by NJA (# 13022) on
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Can someone advise the official reasoning?
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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I'm sure Google will be able to help you there.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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Time zones were established to allow for commerce and communication. As daylight moves and varies by latitude, no scheme will be perfect. Daylight savings schemes were introduced to save power by reducing the need for incandescent lighting.
Answer your question, NJA?
Btw, L'organist , it is the Midlands not Scotland, who have the, erm, largest issues.
[ 27. October 2013, 17:49: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
However, none of this cuts any ice with the Scots, who insist that its unreasonable to expect them and, particularly, their children to wait until 10am for daylight.
Erm, seems pretty reasonable to me.
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
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Reasonable?
The plain fact is its the LATITUDE of places in Scotland that makes the difference.
Edinburgh is further north than Moscow and Copenhagen - its a full 11 degrees further north than St Petersburg.
Plain fact is, the further north (or south) you go the shorter your days in winter.
Because children are at school from (roughly) 8.45 to 3.30 each day it would mean they would actually get some proper daylight if we didn't put our clocks back.
Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Can someone advise the official reasoning?
Well the first thing to note is that it's the Summer time that's odd. In Winter Midday is Midday.
The second thing to note is our times are out of whack (e.g. 9-5 and then you start doing stuff)*. At some points this means you need the lights on, despite also being asleep when it's light (i.e. summer). At other points you're only moving daylight during the waking hours (i.e. winter).
The trigger was that in WW1 we (well the Germans first) couldn't afford to use fuel (if modern)/stop working (if traditional). After that we liked it, as can be seen that it's putting the clocks 'right' that is challenged.
*one could speculate on the reasons for this, in my opinion it does suggest we need(ed) lighter mornings more than lighter evenings (if we can only have one).
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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I've looked up the sunrise and sunset times for Aberdeen on December 21st. As a middling sort of example, and the worst case day length. The sun is above the horizon - barring landscape and other obstacles - from 8.45 to 3.28. Thus, with GMT, the whole school day is in daylight, but with travel times during twilight, which would be about 3 quarters of an hour. Moving the clock forward would mean more travel in the morning before twilight, but only give an hour of daylight, with the sun very low in the sky, for any activities after school. And that's assuming a flat environment, which Scotland is not.
The equivalent times for today are daylight from 7.08 to 4.35. Obviously keeping those an hour on would give more time after school for a while.
Norway puts its clocks back for winter.
Posted by Mostly Harmless (# 17684) on
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NJA may "wake up to light when I don't need it" but I find I can't routinely get out of bed in the dark so I do need it. Also am much more alert in the evenings even when it is dark. So fully in favour of keeping things as they are.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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Hello and welcome, Mostly Harmless! I hope you'll have fun looking around and enjoy your time on the boards!
Please take a few minutes to read the guidelines at the top of each board, as each board has a different "flavour". You'd be most welcome to drop over to the Introductions thread where you can tell us a little about yourself (if you like to) and people will give you a welcome.
Cheers
Ariel
Heaven Host
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
Can someone remind me why I now have to wake up to light when I don't need it
I will still be waking in the dark. If you want to wake in the dark too I recommend that you move 200 miles north.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
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The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
I've found that it's only since I retired that I've had that privilege. Quite a few jobs come with inflexi time.
Posted by Francophile (# 17838) on
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Iceland doesn't fiddle about with the clocks. With only about 3 hours daylight at midwinter, I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's light from 11.30am to 2.30pm (as now) or 10.30am to 1.30pm.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Iceland doesn't fiddle about with the clocks. With only about 3 hours daylight at midwinter, I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's light from 11.30am to 2.30pm (as now) or 10.30am to 1.30pm.
Maybe Comet can explain why Alaska does go to Daylight Savings Time when they have close to 24 hours of sun in the summer and of darkness in the winter.
(I'm happy to say that Arizona stays on Standard Time all year. When the sun sets earlier in the summer it cools off a bit making outdoor activities a little more bearable.)
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
If a bunch of Scots don't like it, they have their own devolved assembly which can vote to use a UTC+0000 time zone, maybe called Scotland-Hebrides International Time instead of the English-based GMT, and have people change their clocks at the border. Then they'll be twenty years and one hour behind instead of just twenty years.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
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I don't care what time it goes dark or comes light.
Just leave the clocks ALONE!
We have perfectly good street lights and car lights. Small children will be kept safe by adults and older children by road safety education, not by messing with the clocks. Just set it and leave it - GMT BST SMP BLT, I do not care. If Scotland want to change their clocks to mess about with when it's dark - let them have a different time zone, change the clocks at the border.
I am an early riser. Once awake I can't sleep or snooze - so here I am, wide awake at five AM which *was* six AMuntil this weekend and should still be six AM. I don't want to get up, my day starts at six, not five. So I'm complaining and grumbling on the Ship
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Maybe Comet can explain why Alaska does go to Daylight Savings Time when they have close to 24 hours of sun in the summer and of darkness in the winter.
the short answer is, we observe daylight saving time because the state is run by a bunch of batshit crazy morons who piss me right off and I've had it up to HERE with the whole stupidass concept which is completely goddamn pointless. I'd go on, but I might get hellish.
however, I do need to clarify before I give the "official" reasoning behind it.
Alaska is a big place. seriously, bigger than many countries. roll your globe around and take a look. The Arctic Circle is the line where they get one 24 hour day of sunlight in the summer solstice, and one day where the sun doesn't peek above the horizon on the winter solstice. the Arctic Circle is at Lat67. That's way up there, north of Fairbanks. For every place below that line, the 24 hour darkness/light thing is a myth. this includes most of the state, and population wise, I'd guess something like 90% of the state. further, I have heard people say that we get "6 months of daylight and 6 months of darkness" unless you are actually, physically ON one of the poles, this is physically impossible. it's a gradual process, just like everywhere else. I spent a year on the Arctic Ocean coast. We had about a month of the sun not coming above the horizon in the winter. Barrow (up there at the top) gets about six weeks. I currently live just shy of Lat60. this puts me equivalent to Helsinki and Oslo and Stockholm and Saint Petersburg, and a tad bit north of Inverness. Which is really quite southerly in Alaska terms. I'm down here in the banana belt of the state. in the winter we get about 4 hours of daylight, in the summer we have about 6 weeks of daylight, although the sun always does actually go down below the horizon for a bit each day.
sorry - the daylight thing really drives me batshit, I HAD to clarify. *breathe* I'm good now. no, really.
*breathe*
so, as to why we observe daylight savings - my state leadership is full of idiots. When I was growing up, we had 4 time zones. that is what actually matches with how wide we are. it makes sense. but somewhere in there we all switched to Juneau time "for the sake of commerce" so they piled all of us into one timezone. which means, if you live all the way out in Attu, solar noon is at some stupid time like 4 or 5 in the afternoon. WTF? and our observance of DST is the same principal, only even more bizarre - so we can somehow manage to do business with the rest of the world. because they're all doing it, then obviously so should we. Which places like AZ and HI have already proven is a fallacy. look at all of the people who refuse to bring their tourism business to Hawaii because they don't observe DST!
The whole thing really pisses me off. as might be a teensy bit obvious.
But boy, one time you show up late for work telling them you're boycotting the DST and it really doesn't go over well.
trust me.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
Although - on holiday in Western Brittany a couple of years ago - I found it disconcerting to be on the same longitude as Devon and Cornwall and to be on what effectively was "double daylight saving time". We got off the boat just before 7 and drove to the nearest large town (Morlaix) expecting that the place would be buzzing and the little cafes humming at 8 am. Instead the whole place was just beginning to rub its eyes and wake up.
It's a bit bizarre that France should be in the same time zone as (say) Berlin ... but it is a good argument for Britain going over the continental time.
Posted by NJA (# 13022) on
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The clocks going back actually did some good - the stork hit most of SE England a 6:30-7:15am before rush hour really got going with kids.
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on
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It's half term - very few kids out and about this morning.
Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on
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quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
The clocks going back actually did some good - the stork hit most of SE England a 6:30-7:15am before rush hour really got going with kids.
With the stork hitting can we expect to see the rush hour getting going with kids in the next few days? Or is it nine months from now? Never really worked out how the stork worked.
Regarding joining European time for the sake of business, it would be a bit odd if the UK did that while Spain went the other way and joined Ireland and Portugal on GMT.
BBC link
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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Rant, Racism and Grumble - not just a firm of solicitors, but the predominant tone of this thread.
Awa' tae Hell.
Firenze
Heaven Host
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Hello possums.
orfeo
Hellhost
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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I'm just north of Aberdeen. In Victorian times, the school day used to shift - children went in an hour later and left an hour later in winter. I suspect that would be a childcare nightmare, though.
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
In the UK this was borne out when we had the couple of years without the clocks going back and the overall accident rate fell.
Was that in 1969? Scotland saw an increase in accidents and deaths.
I think part of the problem for commuters here is not so much the dark, but the fact that roads and pavements are more likely to be icy.
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Iceland doesn't fiddle about with the clocks. With only about 3 hours daylight at midwinter, I suppose it doesn't matter whether it's light from 11.30am to 2.30pm (as now) or 10.30am to 1.30pm.
Indeed, and this why I get narked that we fiddle around with the clocks here in Finland. Totally pointless. It's a waste of time and probably a waste of lots of money too.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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In the UK the logical thing would be to hand over control of Scottish clocks to the Scottish Parliament, and for the rest of the UK to pick either GMT or GMT+1 and stick to it all year round.
A halfway solution would be to at least aim for some symmetry in how we change the time. If we're going to put the clocks back on 27 October (8 weeks before solstice) then we should put them forward on 16 February (8 weeks after solstice) - so why the hell will I be spending the 5 weeks after 16 February still coming home from work in the dark?
I'll tell you why - it's because it's European. And it's only EU logic that could ever come up with the principle that if it's good for Rome, it's got to be good for Inverness.
Posted by Francophile (# 17838) on
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NEQ
The experiment with permanent BST began in the autumn of 1968 and ended in the autumn of 1971, with GMT being reverted to in late October of 1971.
I was at school in Scotland at the time and remember it well. I was in Primary 7 in 1968/69, the first year of the experiment. We were all issued with fluorescent orange arm bands and required to wear these on our hooded trenchcoats (anyone remember them?). If spotted by a teacher en route to, or arriving at, school in the morning, without displaying armbands, we were issued with a "punishment exercise". As the period of the experiment went on, the rule was relaxed (or maybe we were just getting older and the teachers didn't bother so much).
One pupil was caught trying to flush her armbands down a school toilet. Her parents were called in to see the headteacher and she was threatened with expulsion.
In midwinter, the whole journey to school was done in complete darkness, daylight appearing at some point during the first period (9am to 9.45am). It was actually quite cosy to be doing your arithmetic in the classroom with darkness outside.
I don't remember being aware of longer daylight in the afternoons, but that was probably just me.
[ 28. October 2013, 13:24: Message edited by: Francophile ]
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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There is a reason for not having a symmetry in the dates of clock changing - or I assume so. The changes in day length are themselves not symmetrical.
For instance, where I live, sunrise on the winter solstice, 21st December this year, is at 8:01. But this is not the latest the sun rises. That is 8:04, and occurs between the 27th December and 2nd January. It doesn't rise at 8:01 again until 9th and 10th January. Meanwhile, sunset on the solstice is at 15:53, but the earliest sunset is 15:50, which occurs between 11th and 14th December, with the same time as the solstice occurring on the 2nd and 3rd December.
Which makes one wonder about the geometry of Stonehenge, Maes Howe, New Grange and so on.
The variation is called the Equation of Time, which produces a diagram called the Analemma, sometimes seen on globes. We used to have one in our playground on a sundial which used children as gnomons.
Things are less peculiar in summer, when the Earth is further from the Sun, and thus moving more slowly. The variation is due to the combination of the ellipse of the orbit and the angle of the Earth's axis.
However, the assymmetry isn't as extreme, even so, as the dates of Summer Time. Maybe they are also linked to temperature, and/or agricultural activities.
[ 28. October 2013, 14:13: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
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My husband remembers it, Francophile; I don't but then I only lived two houses away from the school.
Our school bus pick-up is at 8am, kids here are heading towards the bus stop from 7.45 on. It would be odd to think of them setting off two hours before dawn, but I suppose they do that in other parts of the world. It's the challenge of getting the roads / pavements gritted before the morning commute that concerns me.
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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Thanks for the asymmetry explanation, but it still doesn't tell me why GMT lasts until the end of March but starts only at the end of October(?)
[ 28. October 2013, 14:22: Message edited by: Matt Black ]
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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The Equation of Time accounts for variations between solar and clock time owing to the Earth's orbit being elliptical (Kepler's 3rd Law and all that). But it only accounts for about +/- 15mins at its maximum.
But the October-March assymetry is a lot more than that. Here's the length of day (sunrise-sunset) for Manchester 2013-2014:
Last day of BST (26 Oct): 9hrs 51mins
My proposed first day of BST: 9hrs 55 mins
Actual first day of BST: 12hrs 52mins.
Having the change at the assymetrical time extends the "feeling" of winter - dark afternoons and evenings - for weeks longer than is actually needed (if the change is needed at all, which it isn't, really, south of Berwick).
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
Posted by ken (# 2460) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
The state should stop nannying us and fiddling with the clocks altogether. Just stick to GMT all year and let people decide for themselves when to get up in the morning.
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
So it was about safety, and now its about business? Bollocks! Its just a bunch of interfering busybodies who get their rocks off by giving orders and think it does the lower classes good to be forced out of bed early.
quote:
If a bunch of Scots don't like it, they have their own devolved assembly which can vote to use a UTC+0000 time zone, maybe called Scotland-Hebrides International Time instead of the English-based GMT, and have people change their clocks at the border. Then they'll be twenty years and one hour behind instead of just twenty years.
So bereft of any real defence for your desire to control the lives of others, you revert to snide insults about Scotland?
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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I wish we'd stay on summer time all year. I couldn't care less about dark mornings, as I never do anything other than get up and go to work in the morning anyway, but lighter evenings when I may actually want to do something would be awesome.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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You'd have a lot of light time after work in December, with sunset at ten to fivish for most of the month. (Time adjusted for BST from that given above.)
Adeodatus - I started on the assymetry before realising how different October and March were. I do suspect a farming connection, now, with light evenings until harvest was definitely gathered in, and not bothering to get them in spring until the soil heated up. I wonder if anyone can find out what the original thinking was.
[ 28. October 2013, 16:44: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
That's bollocks. You've been reading the Telegraph ("if it's bad it must be from the EU") so much you're starting to believe it. Britain first flirted with daylight saving in 1916 and brought it in in its present form before it joined the EEC. Until 2000 most EU countries shifted their clocks in September. Then they aligned themselves with the UK with its October shift. Rome slavishly following London's lead.
I'm with Marvin on this. Just when the evenings start closing in early the authorities step in and say they have to get dark even earlier still. Where's the fun in that?
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
I'm with Jonah - I'm sure the discrepancy pre-dates our joining the Common Market(?) If it's down to farming, surely the time has come to scrap it, given that only about a handful of people are still engaged in agriculture in this country, and if they want to get up or go to bed at weird hours compared to the rest of us, well good luck to them!
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
So why the fuck do we extend the Spring change, year after year?
Because the EU say so, and the UK government always does what the EU says, because it makes UK people grumble about the EU more than they grumble about Westminster.
I'm with Jonah - I'm sure the discrepancy pre-dates our joining the Common Market(?) If it's down to farming, surely the time has come to scrap it, given that only about a handful of people are still engaged in agriculture in this country, and if they want to get up or go to bed at weird hours compared to the rest of us, well good luck to them!
I believe it has its origins in World War One, so yes, if you want to blame Europe, feel free.
Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on
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Given that many services operate a seasonal timetable (e.g buses, trains) - why can't we just operate a seasonal timetable ?
There is nothing to actually stop Scotland choosing to open its schools 10am to 4pm and stay on GMT. Likewise the rest of the country.
Why can't we just be on GMT, and then open stuff when we need it to be open ?
Posted by Mostly Harmless (# 17684) on
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Why not just put the clocks back by an hour each time. Extra hour in bed twice a year, and it'll really confuse the rest of the world when we start going to wrok at what for them is 3.00 am.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Why not just put your clock on whatever time you want? THAT will show those government busybodies.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
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I say we go back to matins and lauds, prime, tierce, sext, nones, vespers, and compline.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
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There's a secondary school which runs on a late start because research shows that teenage brains are reorganising themselves and need to lie in.
Posted by JonahMan (# 12126) on
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And stop blaming the Scots. I've never heard anyone here comment one way or the other about BST or GMT. It's always been put down to farmers; I just can't see why they can't get up at different times at different times of the year, just like farmers all over the world. It's not like cows have got alarm clocks or anything.
I (living in Scotland) would prefer to stick to whatever saves the most energy and results in fewest traffic accidents.
Posted by Anglican't (# 15292) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
We're talking about that small island off the northern coast of France right? It would be better for business in the UK if they retired the GMT time zone and used CET (that's UTC+0100) in line with the rest of Europe.
Although - on holiday in Western Brittany a couple of years ago - I found it disconcerting to be on the same longitude as Devon and Cornwall and to be on what effectively was "double daylight saving time". We got off the boat just before 7 and drove to the nearest large town (Morlaix) expecting that the place would be buzzing and the little cafes humming at 8 am. Instead the whole place was just beginning to rub its eyes and wake up.
It's a bit bizarre that France should be in the same time zone as (say) Berlin ... but it is a good argument for Britain going over the continental time.
Sounds to me like a good argument for France adopting GMT...
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
:
quote:
Baptist Trainfan: It's a bit bizarre that France should be in the same time zone as (say) Berlin ...
I understand that you can blame the nazi's for that.
BTW where I am in Brazil, the sun rises and sets around 7 o'clock every day. That's ok for me.
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on
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Jonah: quote:
It's not like cows have got alarm clocks or anything.
Actually cows (and other animals) are quite capable of noticing when they are being fed (or milked) an hour later than usual. My mother's dog was always most indignant when the clocks went back - though I never noticed him complaining about being fed an hour earlier than usual when the clocks went forward.
Posted by JonahMan (# 12126) on
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Exactly - so farmers milk or feed the beasts when they need to, rather than needing the clock to tell them when. The cows don't know it's 5am, just that it's x hours since the last time.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
Baptist Trainfan: It's a bit bizarre that France should be in the same time zone as (say) Berlin ...
I understand that you can blame the nazi's for that.
I could suggest Napoleon as an alternative, but it's more likely that time was standardised as international trains became commonplace. That's not an issue for the UK (at the moment) as our only cross-border services are in Ireland, where the line runs north-south.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Given that many services operate a seasonal timetable (e.g buses, trains) - why can't we just operate a seasonal timetable ?
There is nothing to actually stop Scotland choosing to open its schools 10am to 4pm and stay on GMT. Likewise the rest of the country.
Why can't we just be on GMT, and then open stuff when we need it to be open ?
I don't understand this either, especially as it did happen prior to the introduction of BST.
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
:
quote:
Sioni Sais: I could suggest Napoleon as an alternative, but it's more likely that time was standardised as international trains became commonplace.
No, France was on GMT until 1940 when they changed to Central European Time because of nazi occupation. After the war, they never changed back. The same happened with the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I could suggest Napoleon as an alternative, but it's more likely that time was standardised as international trains became commonplace. That's not an issue for the UK (at the moment) as our only cross-border services are in Ireland, where the line runs north-south.
Are you aware that the French have opened a branch line from their rail network into the UK which runs over 300 trains per day?
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
... Is it really because children in the north of Scotland can't use reflective clothing/strips and torches/lights?
I grew up in Orkney and I was in primary 2/3 when they did the "full-time summer time" experiment in 1968-71 and yes - we were issued with reflective arm-bands and sashes. It was pretty miserable though, not having full daylight until about 10:30 in the morning; to me, going home in the dark was preferable to having to get up in it.
I've come rather late to this thread - I live in Newfoundland and our clocks don't go back until next week. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on
:
quote:
I grew up in Orkney ....... I live in Newfoundland .......
You do know there are places in the world where the sun shines and it is not raining all the time don't you?
[ 29. October 2013, 09:40: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
:
She comes from Orkney and lives in Newfoundland. She won't even understand the concept of the sun shining and it not raining all the time...
[ 29. October 2013, 10:03: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I could suggest Napoleon as an alternative, but it's more likely that time was standardised as international trains became commonplace. That's not an issue for the UK (at the moment) as our only cross-border services are in Ireland, where the line runs north-south.
Are you aware that the French have opened a branch line from their rail network into the UK which runs over 300 trains per day?
Truly epic fail. I suppose I was thinking about railways of the railway era. WTF, I wuz spectacularly wrong.
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
No, France was on GMT until 1940 when they changed to Central European Time because of nazi occupation. After the war, they never changed back. The same happened with the Netherlands, Belgium and Luxembourg.
ditto
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Posted by NJA (# 13022) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
I grew up in Orkney and I was in primary 2/3 when they did the "full-time summer time" experiment in 1968-71 and yes - we were issued with reflective arm-bands and sashes. It was pretty miserable though, not having full daylight until about 10:30 in the morning; to me, going home in the dark was preferable to having to get up in it.
To me it is preferable to benefit millions by scrapping GMT in Winter rather than fit the preference of a few thousand kids in communities that are used to doing their daily routine in darkness.
What do you think?
Posted by Mostly Harmless (# 17684) on
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Perhaps the entire working day should be shorter in winter in line with the reduced day light. I'm surely not the only one who wishes to hibernate.
Posted by Francophile (# 17838) on
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Yes, we could just hibernate in straw lined boxes in the loft from early November to late March. Think what we'd save in energy and food bills and wouldn't have to bother with Christmas.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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Having The Archers come on a whole hour later reaks havoc with my schedule!
Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Francophile:
Yes, we could just hibernate in straw lined boxes in the loft from early November to late March. Think what we'd save in energy and food bills and wouldn't have to bother with Christmas.
Frankly, hibernation is the most worthwhile idea this thread has produced. We can have the Northern Hemi run the world April 15 through October 14, then pop off to bed and let the Southern Hemi take over October 15 through April 14.
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
:
quote:
Porridge: We can have the Northern Hemi run the world April 15 through October 14, then pop off to bed and let the Southern Hemi take over October 15 through April 14.
What about us who are (almost) on the Equator? ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on
:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
quote:
Originally posted by piglet: quote:
I grew up in Orkney ....... I live in Newfoundland .......
You do know there are places in the world where the sun shines and it is not raining all the time don't you?
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I have but two words for you, and the second one is "off".
Originally posted by Albertus: quote:
She won't even understand the concept of the sun shining and it not raining all the time ...
I beg to differ - the sun was splitting the trees here today. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Originally posted by NJA: quote:
... it is preferable to benefit millions ... rather than fit the preference of a few thousand kids in communities that are used to doing their daily routine in darkness ...
You may be right; as I said, I was only about 7 years old at the time, so not really of an opinion-forming age.
Having said that, where I live in St. John's is roughly level with the north of France, but my body-clock's still looking forward to the lighter mornings when the clocks go back next week.
Maybe I'm just an incurable northerner - sorry about that.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
What about us who are (almost) on the Equator?
Roll over.
Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on
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quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Then they'll be twenty years and one hour behind instead of just twenty years.
So bereft of any real defence for your desire to control the lives of others, you revert to snide insults about Scotland? [/QB][/QUOTE]
It's just defensiveness born of too much time with little Englanders who're stuck in their fantasy version of the 1950s. They've got it so bad down south they have to convince themselves that Scotland is worse or they'd have nothing left to live for.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
You may be right; as I said, I was only about 7 years old at the time, so not really of an opinion-forming age.
All the seven year olds I know are excellent at forming their own opinions.
I am not anti - Scots at all.
I do think circumstances are different there 'tho. Why not devolve time changing and have a clock change at the border? Let the Scots decide on their own time set up.
Personally I hate it. It feels like jet-lag to me, for at least three weeks.
When I am properly retired I shall adjust my clocks in ten minute intervals until they match the others. That may help.
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
It's not changing the clocks I mind, it's changing the radios, the microwave, the central heating and the cooker. Plus every one has a different combo of buttons to press. Which you can't remember since it's been six months. And you can't find the blasted instructions - only the ones for the toaster you threw out three years ago.
And this, children, is why no two appliances in Auntie Firenze's kitchen display exactly the same time. And why you must never ask her why.
[ 30. October 2013, 08:04: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on
:
quote:
I beg to differ - the sun was splitting the trees here today.
Ah a Daywalker, I have heard of them but never spoken to one before.
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
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I've got all the instruction manuals, but trouble is they don't always seem to work.
Problem with the oven is that everytime you put time back it decides that what you meant to do was advance the time by 11 hours. Now, that would be fine but some loon decided this type of oven needed to know the date (you may well ask why, so do I but in rather less measured tones) so if you want the damned thing to work AT ALL you have to start fiddling with that as well because the auto function only works on a 24 hour clock...
Take my line, Firenze : tell anyone who comments on the different times to sugar off or buy a watch, their choice.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Having The Archers come on a whole hour later reaks havoc with my schedule!
It's not all bad, then.
Posted by NJA (# 13022) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
... it's been six months. ...
seven actually.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Now, that would be fine but some loon decided this type of oven needed to know the date (you may well ask why, so do I but in rather less measured tones) ...
Oh, you've got that model that Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall endorses. It needs to know the date because it's programmed not to cook anything that's not in season.
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
:
I used to have a major hassle with my electric chiming clock. Running it through eleven bouts of chiming is very time-consuming.
Then it occurred to me that I could simply unplug it for an hour.
Moo
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by NJA:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
... it's been six months. ...
seven actually.
And you know when I update the kitchen timers how exactly?
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Wouldn't it be nice if Shipmates had solar-powered computers?
With no electrical charge storage capacity.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Personally I hate it. It feels like jet-lag to me, for at least three weeks.
When I am properly retired I shall adjust my clocks in ten minute intervals until they match the others. That may help.
This is the thing to do in the run-up to the spring change. If you spread the change over about three weeks and get up a little earlier each few days it doesn't hit the system as hard as it might otherwise. Works for me, anyway.
Personally I think the whole thing is stupid. Time is as it is, they should stop mucking about with it and we should be on GMT all year round.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
:
I wasn't quite blaming the EU earlier - I was blaming the Westminster government for following the EU. Some European countries don't, but Westminster always does what it can to keep the EU higher on the public unpopularity index than they are themselves.
The bloody time changes seem to affect me even worse than jet lag. Two or three hours' jet lag, I can get over in a day or two. But GMT/BST/GMT, my sleep's disturbed for a week at least - don't know why. And my biggest practical problem is, I can never remember from one change to the next which of my clocks change themselves and which don't. So I do I change the time on my mobile phone (which I also use as an alarm clock) before I go to bed on the Saturday, or will it do it itself by technomagic at 2a.m.? (Answer: keep a mechanical alarm clock to be used on those two nights each year.)
quote:
Originally posted by Mostly Harmless:
Perhaps the entire working day should be shorter in winter in line with the reduced day light. I'm surely not the only one who wishes to hibernate.
Now that is an idea. As long as it doesn't mean working an hour longer in summer.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Time is as it is, they should stop mucking about with it and we should be on GMT all year round.
Rubbish - we should be on BST all year round. Lighter evenings are the way to go.
Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on
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Apparently the NFU (Farmer's Union) is neutral on the matter, with members opinions being divided.
Anyway, what's all this government interference about anyway? GMT is government interference. Who the hell gave the residents of Greenwich the right to impose their puny meridian on the rest of the country? Answer - the government did. Before this irrelevance was imposed, every town had its own time. With modern advances in digital timekeeping, what holds us back from returning to those glorious days?
Actually, my central heating programmer works on this basis. It sets its time from the wireless time signal from Rugby, and then corrects it for actual longitude, so it's always six minutes out from GMT and BST. I've a good mind to strike a blow for freedom and set all our clocks by it in future.
[ 30. October 2013, 13:20: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]
Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on
:
Marvin: No, they are not. I can't stand light evenings when it's not dark until 10pm and much prefer a lighter morning. Lighter evenings encourage people to do all sorts of ungodly things, like have barbeques in the garden, not to mention bonfires (which means smoke comes in the house), have crap music blaring out, and generally cause a racket. I can't sleep when it's lighter. It's getting towards winter for goodness' sake, it's meant to be dark. I vote for God's Magnificent Time against Bloody Silly Time any day (or night).
So there ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
.
[ 30. October 2013, 13:23: Message edited by: Pine Marten ]
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Anmywa, BST was introduced to make use of light summer mornings, not to give us long light summer evenings.
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on
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Wasn't it the railways brought in a national time? Because it was fairly impossible to plan journeys on different randomly applied time zones? . According to wikipedia a form of Local Mean time was used across the UK until the railways adopted a national time from 1847, the legal enforcement coming from the Statutes Definition of Time Act (1880).
And wasn't it the problems with longitude set GMT for ships so they had a chance to calculate where in the world they were? Around a big international debate to agree one standardised time - the International Meridian Conference of 1884.
I like daylight saving. I liked the way I still got to cycle to work in daylight - giving me a chance of spotting iced up bits of road - when the clocks went back in autumn. And yes, long light evenings are good.
Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on
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Picky.
My central heating knows what's what.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Wouldn't it be nice if Shipmates had solar-powered computers?
With no electrical charge storage capacity.
perfect.
see you in March!
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Pine Marten:
Lighter evenings encourage people to do all sorts of ungodly things, like have barbeques in the garden, not to mention bonfires (which means smoke comes in the house), have crap music blaring out, and generally cause a racket.
Have you always been a joyless shit, or did it only come on once someone shoved that stick up your ass?
Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Now, that would be fine but some loon decided this type of oven needed to know the date (you may well ask why, so do I but in rather less measured tones) ...
Oh, you've got that model that Hugh Fearnley-Whittingstall endorses. It needs to know the date because it's programmed not to cook anything that's not in season.
I usually have at least two appliances, including the car, where I find it easier just to let it be an hour out for six months each year. I soon get used to it after a few initial panics.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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What's this bollocks about "long evenings"? In most of the UK it's simply a choice of darkness at 3pm or 4pm through most of December and January.
Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Time is as it is, they should stop mucking about with it and we should be on GMT all year round.
Rubbish - we should be on BST all year round. Lighter evenings are the way to go.
Amen!
Pine Marten, buy some fecking ear plugs and black-out curtains, you surly old git!
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I've got all the instruction manuals, but trouble is they don't always seem to work.
Problem with the oven is that everytime you put time back it decides that what you meant to do was advance the time by 11 hours. Now, that would be fine but some loon decided this type of oven needed to know the date (you may well ask why, so do I but in rather less measured tones) so if you want the damned thing to work AT ALL you have to start fiddling with that as well because the auto function only works on a 24 hour clock...
Alternatively, do as we Scots do. Don't bother with the oven, just live off a diet of deep fried Mars Bars.
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
:
But I don't like milk chocolate!
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Wouldn't it be nice if Shipmates had solar-powered computers?
With no electrical charge storage capacity.
perfect.
see you in March!
Hosts should probably get special upgrades.
Although the upgrade that allows me to remotely control a frying pan so that it whacks the offending Shipmate across the back of the head seems to be missing from my pack.
Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on
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It's a standing joke here that the reason everything starts "late" is because the island actually runs on local time - about 25 minutes behind GMT - so we're actually on time.
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
But I don't like milk chocolate!
The Scottish diet has many non-oven options. The deep-fried pizza perhaps? The deep fried dark chocolate Bounty bar?
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Time is as it is, they should stop mucking about with it and we should be on GMT all year round.
Rubbish - we should be on BST all year round. Lighter evenings are the way to go.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Say I.
But we can stay in real time all year round.
Or regional time, suits me.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
What's this bollocks about "long evenings"? In most of the UK it's simply a choice of darkness at 3pm or 4pm through most of December and January.
The extra hour of daylight is still more useful between 3pm and 4pm than between 8am and 9am. It may make little difference to a workday, but there are still weekends to consider. During which of those two hours are people more likely to be out and about?
Posted by Dennis the Menace (# 11833) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by JonahMan:
Exactly - so farmers milk or feed the beasts when they need to, rather than needing the clock to tell them when. The cows don't know it's 5am, just that it's x hours since the last time.
One of our now deceased cats would go out for a scratch every night right on the dot of 9.30pm, without fail even when the clock went forward/back. None of the others were so ritual.
Posted by Spike (# 36) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
What's this bollocks about "long evenings"? In most of the UK it's simply a choice of darkness at 3pm or 4pm through most of December and January.
The extra hour of daylight is still more useful between 3pm and 4pm than between 8am and 9am. It may make little difference to a workday, but there are still weekends to consider. During which of those two hours are people more likely to be out and about?
Depends on what your working day is. Speaking as a driving instructor, I know that remaking on BST would wreak havoc with driving tests. Also, most people in the building trade start work at 7.30 or 8 and finish at 4.30. This would add an extra hour of darkness to their working day.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
The extra hour of daylight is still more useful between 3pm and 4pm than between 8am and 9am. It may make little difference to a workday, but there are still weekends to consider. During which of those two hours are people more likely to be out and about?
When you're half awake and having to get up early in the morning for 5 days in a row, a bit of daylight can be uplifting. Early morning is when a lot of people set off for work not quite awake, still grumpy, and drive irritably. I'm with those who say it prevents accidents having more daylight at that end of the day. It's not worth changing it just for the sake of weekends which are only two days out of seven.
The over-long evenings in this part of the northern hemisphere can be a real drag if you're trying to get to sleep and the sun is still blazing through your curtains. Ditto at 4.30 am, it ought to be dark at that hour. It encourages anti-social behaviour in the evenings, as well. Equal day and night for me, please.
[ 03. November 2013, 09:39: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
When you're half awake and having to get up early in the morning for 5 days in a row, a bit of daylight can be uplifting.
In that case the clocks should change in September. The October change has made no difference to whether I get up in daylight or not.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Equal day and night for me, please.
then you need to move to the equator. Every place else is going to disappoint you.
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Equal day and night for me, please.
then you need to move to the equator. Every place else is going to disappoint you.
The beer is good here too!
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
Happy Fucking Daylight Savings.
it's 3:30 pm and getting dark. We could have put this off another few weeks, but NoooOOOooo!
stupidest thing ever.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
:
What pisses me off is that Congress decides the whole country should get up an hour earlier for more than half the year, and we all just toddle along and do it. There is no demonstrable energy savings, so if people want to get up earlier, let them, and let me sleep in peace. They've fucked up March by making the spring time change so early, and I spend weeks trying not to bite people's heads off because the adjustment is so hard to make.
Posted by W Hyatt (# 14250) on
:
I recently realized that the world is missing a gigantic opportunity with this. Apparently, it's well known around the globe that it is quite virtuous to wake up and start your day early. So maybe we should set our clocks so that sunrise occurs for most of us around 10 AM or so - almost everyone would be up and about by then with hardly any effort. Unless the virtue is not from the angle of the sun in the sky when we wake up - maybe it depends on what time our clocks say it is when we first get out of bed. In which case we could set our clocks so that sunrise occurs around 4 AM - then it would much easier for us all to be awake and functioning by 7 or 8 AM when the sun is well up in the sky.
Of course the obvious problem is first figuring out whether the virtue accrues from the sun or from our clocks. Perhaps someone more familiar with this mysterious phenomenon could figure it out and let me know. Then we could get on with the task of making the whole world more virtuous simply by passing a new law. Although naturally, we'll have to have the scientists and mathematicians also figure out how to maximize the results by determining which latitude we should base it on to include the highest percentage of the population. Clearly, we can't make everyone virtuous simultaneously, but I'm sure we can cover a huge percentage of the world's population. Or, we could make every country responsible for introducing this virtue for their own population independently of other countries and let them choose their own best "virtue saving" time.
Who says that morality can't be legislated?
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
Or we could just accept the science that explains that people with body clocks running on a period of less than 24 hours tend to get up early, and people with body clocks running on a period of more than 24 hours tend to get up late, and cut all this 'virtue' stuff out of it.
The same science, by the way, already says that the presence of sunlight causes the body clock to resynchronise. And that your body never fully adjusts to working night shift because of this.
Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on
:
I've been living here on the equator for almost a year now and have gotten used to the light/ dark ratio. So I was completely thrown yesterday when it got dark much earlier than usual and really cold too...that'll have been the eclipse then!
I also enjoy living in a northern hemisphere country with its seasons and variation but I do wish we would choose one time frame and bloody well stick to it, the chopping and changing drive me a bit crazy....
(Running away from Hell now and back into the Light....)
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
I recently realized that the world is missing a gigantic opportunity with this. Apparently, it's well known around the globe that it is quite virtuous ...
Joke post surely?
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
I've been living here on the equator for almost a year now and have gotten used to the light/ dark ratio. So I was completely thrown yesterday when it got dark much earlier than usual and really cold too...that'll have been the eclipse then!
I also enjoy living in a northern hemisphere country with its seasons and variation but I do wish we would choose one time frame and bloody well stick to it, the chopping and changing drive me a bit crazy....
(Running away from Hell now and back into the Light....)
We are just above 10° North and wobble between [roughly] an 11 hour day and a 13 hour day - I reckon it is about perfect. That and warm, too.
p.s. to Val, the admin assistant at work who was convinced I'd miss the crisp winter mornings - WRONG!
[ 04. November 2013, 10:30: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on
:
Springing forward and losing an hour is lame. Falling back and making my son a blond, soft-cheeked, wobbly bucket of tears that threatens to spill over any moment, on the other hand, puts me on the war path.
I'll spare you all the details--go to the Sailorets thread in AS, if you care for some reason--but seriously fuck you to all Congresspeople who vote for this stupid time changing bullshit. You are responsible for my baby's misery, and those of every similar baby, every single year.
Posted by W Hyatt (# 14250) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
I recently realized that the world is missing a gigantic opportunity with this. Apparently, it's well known around the globe that it is quite virtuous ...
Joke post surely?
Yes, it is, although not so surely. It's hard to anticipate that something like Poe's Law* applies to one's own posts.
* Redirects to Wikipedia, but doesn't break the [URL] coding.
Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
I wasn't quite blaming the EU earlier - I was blaming the Westminster government for following the EU. Some European countries don't, but Westminster always does what it can to keep the EU higher on the public unpopularity index than they are themselves.
(Sorry this comment is a bit late. I've been preoccupied)
It is incorrect to say that Westminster has kow-towed to the EU in this area. The change from summer time to winter time in Britain has always been towards the end of October*. Until fairly recently (1990's I think) France changed at the end of September. This made the cross-Channel ferry timetables for October rather complicated, as they work in the local time for departure, and so the times were different from other months. So, in this case the EU changed to agree with the UK.
At that time I once travelled from the south of France on the 'auto-train' overnight on the night the clocks changed. The train just stopped for an hour in a siding. I don't know what they did on the night when the clocks went forward.
*At one time the official rule for the UK was that the reversion from summer time was on the first Sunday on or after 23rd October, which means that occasionally it was not the last Sunday, but the 4th, but it was not always the 4th Sunday.
Posted by snowgoose (# 4394) on
:
I loathe Daylight Saving Time. I can't drive at night, so putting the clocks back when the days are already short means I have to be back home very early no matter what I am doing. The alternative is to get someone to drive me, but I hate asking for rides.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
I also enjoy living in a northern hemisphere country with its seasons and variation but I do wish we would choose one time frame and bloody well stick to it, the chopping and changing drive me a bit crazy....
Well, we could all just collectively ignore the change of clocks, or politely laugh at the idea, and carry on as usual. The big decision would be whether to stick with GMT all year round or stay with summer time.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
Well, we could all just collectively ignore the change of clocks, or politely laugh at the idea, and carry on as usual. The big decision would be whether to stick with GMT all year round or stay with summer time.
I don't care which - we just need to keep it the SAME!!
Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on
:
I think ken has died.
There are 120 post on this thread, and he hasn't posted since #37... ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sarkycow:
I think ken has died.
There are 120 post on this thread, and he hasn't posted since #37...
And why do you perceive this as a problem?
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
It was the light that killed him. You're all whinging about how this affects you, but spare a thought for vampires who forget to change their clocks.
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on
:
All I know is that a few minutes before sunrise, I have a 65 pound red furry galoot with a tongue the size of my hand jump on my head and remind me that it is time for a walk. It takes an hour of walking to make sure she won't destroy everything in her wake for the rest of the day. And I like to get to work around 9. So each minute that sunrise goes past 7 makes it that much harder to pull everything off. Mark me down as one who like a little light early in the morning.
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on
:
In other words Daylight Savings is worth it because you're too lazy to set your alarm clock. Got it.
Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on
:
Reading the posts, I'm not sure everyone realizes that the week-end's change was the return to standard time, NOT going on DST.
Don't let that stand in the way of a good hissy fit, though.
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
Reading the posts, I'm not sure everyone realizes that the week-end's change was the return to standard time, NOT going on DST.
I don't think that's just something that happens here- if you Google Daylight Savings Time, you will find a whole lot of articles from last weekend like this one, explaining how daylight saving time started this weekend, and that setting the clocks back an hour was first done in response to a world war.
The only constant seems to be that people know the time shift is completely artificial, and that whatever time they don't personally like must be the evil, government mandated "daylight saving time."
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
The southern hemisphere is in DST where it is observed. Think of our shipmates in the Antipodes.
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on
:
Had the linked article been from Time's Australia edition, he'd get a pass...
Posted by snowgoose (# 4394) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Organ Builder:
Reading the posts, I'm not sure everyone realizes that the week-end's change was the return to standard time, NOT going on DST.
Don't let that stand in the way of a good hissy fit, though.
Uh...yeah, sorry. It's standard time I can't stand, not DST. I think we should be on summer time all year. The premature darkness has clouded my mind.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
In other words Daylight Savings is worth it because you're too lazy to set your alarm clock. Got it.
No, Daylight Savings is what we go to in the spring, and it's not worth it. People die on account of that time change, which is a bit worse than what you're trying to cope with. Besides, when your kid gets a bit older, you'll be bitching about how going on Daylight Savings Time makes getting him to go to bed at a decent hour in the summer a total pain in the ass because having moved the clocks forward an hour means it's still light out when it's bedtime.
I object to Congress telling me to get up in the dark at the beginning and end of Daylight Savings Time, when it's really unnecessary given the latitude at which I live and how close I am to my job.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
The southern hemisphere is in DST where it is observed. Think of our shipmates in the Antipodes.
It's pretty good actually. The sun still officially rises at (today) 6:08am which is the same as it was on the Vernal Equinox a few weeks ago and it starts getting light about an hour before that, with sunset not long before 8pm.
The real issue we have with time zones is the fight to align South Australia with the eastern states on Eastern Standard Time in winter and Eastern Daylight Time in summer instead of being half an hour behind. As well as making it annoying when dealing with national businesses, the Ship's time difference field is limited to three characters so I can only have the correct time during winter.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Bloody sun is in my eyes when I drive home from work. Grumble.
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
In other words Daylight Savings is worth it because you're too lazy to set your alarm clock. Got it.
No, Daylight Savings is what we go to in the spring, and it's not worth it. People die on account of that time change, which is a bit worse than what you're trying to cope with. Besides, when your kid gets a bit older, you'll be bitching about how going on Daylight Savings Time makes getting him to go to bed at a decent hour in the summer a total pain in the ass because having moved the clocks forward an hour means it's still light out when it's bedtime.
I object to Congress telling me to get up in the dark at the beginning and end of Daylight Savings Time, when it's really unnecessary given the latitude at which I live and how close I am to my job.
No, I have an older kid too. She goes to bed when I tell her to whether or not it's light outside. Also, as you may have noticed, my real objecting is to time-changing bullshit. The details of which way we change are much less important.
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
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quote:
Welease Woderwick: We are just above 10° North and wobble between [roughly] an 11 hour day and a 13 hour day - I reckon it is about perfect. That and warm, too.
I live less than that from the Equator, but I believe that MrsBeaky is closest to it of all of us. Oh well, that just means she'll be the first to swing off if the Earth decides to spin up a bit ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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quote:
Originally posted by snowgoose:
It's standard time I can't stand, not DST. I think we should be on summer time all year. The premature darkness has clouded my mind.
snowgoose, I am at about the same latitude as you are and four degrees west in longitude. Your sunrise and sunset are about twenty minutes earlier than mine.
I'm very glad we're back to standard time. I don't like having to take a flashlight with me when I go to pick up the paper at the end of my driveway.
Moo
Posted by MrsBeaky (# 17663) on
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Originally posted by LeRoc
quote:
I live less than that from the Equator, but I believe that MrsBeaky is closest to it of all of us. Oh well, that just means she'll be the first to swing off if the Earth decides to spin up a bit [Biased]
Aha, I'm not so sure about that...we are 0.5167° N but I am a very grounded person I'll have you know.....!
And the recent time change in the UK has caused havoc with finding the right time to phone my elderly mother, i.e.one that suits us both....Grrr!
Posted by Siegfried (# 29) on
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My prior residence, in Illinois, was 50 miles west of the Eastern Time Zone boundry, in Central Time. That meant that before we'd switch to DST in the spring, the sun would be rising at 5AM. Not pleasant, and so I would look forward to CDT.
I now live in Florida, 50 miles east of the Central Time Zone, in Eastern Time. Before the change back in the fall, the sun is rising after 7:30AM. Also ugh. So, now I look forward to returning to EST. Just goes to show, it can be good/bad either way.
Posted by pererin (# 16956) on
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Daylight Saving Time is horrible. I've jokingly suggested before that Wales should move onto Margam Mean Time (GMT-¼) all year round, to avoid that horrid point in March where some Eurocrat decreed that just as getting up at 6.30 ceased to be an utter trial, he'd move the goal-posts to an effective 5.30, causing those winter blues to come back with a vengeance.
It wasn't so bad when the clocks changed in May instead. And there was no risk of the clocks changing on Easter Day then.
Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on
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When we had British Standard Time all year round there was a statistically-proven reduction in road accidents, even in Scotland. Sadly this was not enough to save us from the Guild of Clock Fiddlers, who could not rest until they had clock fiddling reinstated.
My theory is that there is a civil service department specifically employed to remind people of the change, and they have somehow ensured protection for their jobs. Maybe they do something useful as well.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
Maybe they do something useful as well.
Monitor the internet?
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on
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That's right, blame the poor beleaguered NSA!
Posted by Molopata The Rebel (# 9933) on
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May I remind you that the whole of China is in the same time zone? Considering that someone in Western Xinjiang is stuck with the same clock time as Beijing but has to wait an extra 3 hours to see the sun rather puts this whole debate into perspective.
Perhaps it is herein we find the real reason for the periodic Uyghur uprisings.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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Just remembered... since most of the rest of you mess around with the clock twice a year, and Arizona leaves well enough alone, I have to adjust my Ship clock every spring and fall.
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on
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Me too!
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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Well, it's been five days and my dog is still climbing on my head every morning at 5:00, to make me get up and give her cat his insulin shot, in spite of the fact that I've been daily moving the shot toward six in ten minute increments.
I don't care if we call midnight noon and Jacks beat Aces so long as things stay the same. It's like going through jet lag without the holiday.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Well, it's been five days and my dog is still climbing on my head every morning at 5:00, to make me get up and give her cat his insulin shot, in spite of the fact that I've been daily moving the shot toward six in ten minute increments.
Your dog has a cat? And she keeps track of his shots?
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on
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All the dog knows is that if he jumps on Twilight's head in the morning, the cat gets stuck with a needle. Some things are so awesome you don't need an explanation.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Og, you just got in the Quotes File.
Posted by Wilfried (# 12277) on
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OK, I have not plowed my way through all three pages of this thread, but can I suggest we just move the clocks half an hour one year and be done with it?
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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There's a wild irony to being that late on a daylight savings thread.
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