Thread: The Football Thread 2013 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
A new season is upon us. It's all yours...

<small>[ 11. February 2013, 06:24: Message buggered about with by: Ariston ]</small>

[ 13. February 2013, 15:47: Message edited by: Ariston ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Not a prediction, just the sad and unsurprising news, that Fabrice Muamba has retired.

For a long, fruitful and rewarding retirement.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Prediction number one: whatever happens when Saturday comes it won't be as agonisingly ghastly as last night's League Cup.

I mean, extra time and penalty shoot-outs? At Millwall? On a Tuesday night? Against Crawley Town?

And one of the worst gasmes of football anyone present ahd ever seen. By midway through the second half most of us wanted anyone at all to score, even from the other side, so we copuld give up and go to the pub. As it was the game dragged on till almost half past ten.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I hope our new manager pans out. It would be good to be in the top three again. Whither Happy Harry?
 

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Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
At least it didn't end up in 22 penalties, which is what it took Huddersfield to get into the Championship. I'm hoping for an average season, we need to build a team before we push for the Premiership.
 

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Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on :
 
The US just beat Mexico 1- 0. Surprised the heck outta me.
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
Got a new division to get used to this year. Feels roomy up here.

I'll be happy with a season of consolidation here. Beats looking nervously at the wrong end of the table.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I watched Brazil winning 3-0 against Sweden yesterday, but I think this score paints a too rosy picture of the strength of the Seleção. I don't think Brazil will get very far if they play like this against Italy or Spain. Within the country, there's a lot of criticism of the coach. I also heard the commentators of Globo say: "In the last decades, there always used to be quite a fuzz near the hotel where the Brazilian team slept. Now there were only 10–15 people around." But they still have 2 years before playing the WC at home.

Meanwhile, my home team lost its first League match 4–1 against Twente. It's going to be a difficult season...
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Tortuf:
The US just beat Mexico 1- 0. Surprised the heck outta me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?

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quote:

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Imaginary Friend: LeRoc - did Oscar play? How did he look?

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He did, until halfway in the second period. But I have to admit that I was looking more at Neymar. I found him quite weak against Mexico, so I wanted to know if he'd do better now.


And we'd better not talk about this week's friendly between Holland and Belgium
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Oooh - Spurs above the Gunners is a big call. I honestly think that a Modric-less Tottenham is going to be a tough gig for AVB: I can see them imploding.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Marvin, that's true, but the board have allowed Wenger to open the club's wallet a little already, and talk is that there'll be a couple more additions arriving before the 31st. I don't think they'll be in too much of a hole. But I would love to be proven wrong!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?

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Premiership

Champions: Man City
Champs League: Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham

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quote:

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Relegated: Swansea, Wigan, Southampton

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Championship

Champions: Wolves
Promoted: Blackburn, Birmingham
Relegated: Huddersfield, Palace, Peterborough

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As usual much harder to call than the other divisions. Are you sure you aren't allowing some local Midlander pride to creep in to your prediction about the first place? I suspect you might be more accurate about the bottom three though. Even so there are two or three other teams I'd not be surprised to see down there (Barnsley, Bristol, Wednesday), and three or four more (Burnley, Notts Forest, Millwall, maybe even Derby) that you can't rule out from the drop. Forest ought to have a better season than last year but...

At the top its wide open. Loads of dark horses. I'd like to see Bolton get back up and if they can hold on to one or two players and stay solvent they have a good chance. And they did end up last season significantly ahead of Blackburn and Wolves. And they are riding on a wave of public sympathy over Muamba which might put their attendances up for the first few weeks and even give the players a little morale boost. On the other hand if the financial wheels fall of their bus (and they are very close to it according to some) then they might even do a Portsmouth and drop through the floor

Birmingham looks a safe bet for promotion, probably the only one in this division. Or would be if Hughton was still there. What were they thinking? Not at all so sure about Wolves. Leicester's drive for glory through spending has failed and they might do surprisingly badly this year, I think they are out of the running for top places. Leeds fans will delude themselves that they can get up, but they almost certainly can't. Watford are going to try to drive for promotion, maybe with some extra money, and Blackpool and Brighton will too. Charlton will try to emulate the success of the last few year's promotions from League One, but will need magic money to do it. Cardiff must be in with a good chance of promotion and Boro a slim one.

But there are loads of unpredictables. Huddersfield might equally well end up near the bottom or the top of the table depending on which team out of their two apparently identical ones they bring to which match. The players look like the same team as last week - but somehow they don't play like themselves at all. That was good enough for League One, but? The same goes for Hull. Geniuses or gremlins, you never can tell. And of course for Millwall. If the real Super Millwall come out to play more than a few times they will be around about the bottom of the playoff zone, but if their Useless Identical Twin Team see too much action they could be near the bottom. And after the travesty of losing twice against Crawley in less than a fortnight, both a friendly and a League Cup match, I can assure you that Millwall's Useless Identical Twin Team really is useless.

quote:

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League 1

Champions: Sheffield Utd
Promoted: Carlisle, Coventry
Relegated: Bury, Yeovil, Walsall
(fourth relegation spot not filled due to Portsmouth going out of business half way through the season)

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quote:

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League 2

Champions: Southend
Promoted: Wycombe, Bristol Rov, Fleetwood
Relegated: Barnet, Northampton

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Southend deffo. Bristol probably. Not sure about Fleetwood and we don't want Wycombe - let them riot with Yeovil!

Barnet can stay up if they can get a ground to play in the season after. (Maybe they can share with Portsmouth...)
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Whoops, got a bit carried away there. And even more carried away at a website near you where I have just posted baseless predictions for every team in all four main leagues: Before Reality Sets In.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
There is a rumour Emile Heskey may be ending up at Toronto FC.

Apparently God has decreed we can't have one season go by without a useless striker who can't score.

I think its in Numbers somewhere....
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Wow. Doesn't Brendan Rogers have his work cut out for him?! He well and truly lost the battle of the Chelsea Old Boys.
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Still think Southampton will get relegated, ken? I was only listening on the radio but what a game earlier today! Manchester City 3, Southampton 2 - and Saints came back from 1-0 down to lead 2-1 for a few minutes, against the moneybags champions of all teams. Come on you reds!

Rather obvious declaration of interest - I'm a Southampton fan. One who's now a bit more hopeful of Premier League survival.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Still think Southampton will get relegated, ken?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I expect Liverpool to start brightly

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Not against the mighty Baggies, they didn't! Boing Boing!

quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
So... Marvin, still think Southampton will get relegated?!

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Yep. Premier League history is replete with small teams who come up, start brightly, gain all sort of plaudits and admiration, then go straight back down again.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Marvin, I am glad to be wrong about Liverpool.

Meanwhile, the mighty CFC put in a workmanlike performace in Wigan. Two early goals (Brana for striker?!) allowed us to take our foot off the gas somewhat. Although Hazard, Mata, and Bertrand all played well, JT, Cole, and Nando had days they would rather forget. But three points and no injuries constitutes a completely reasonable start to the season. Do the same again against Reading on Wednesday, and we'll be ready for our first big game against the Toon next weekend. That will be a much stiffer test, especially considering the way they eviscerated us at St James' the end of last season.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Last weekend, I watched Atlético Mineiro against Botafogo. Interesting, because the former side has Ronaldinho and the latter Clarence Seedorf. A reunion from their AC Milan days.

It was a great game, with a swift pace and many chances for both sides. The 3–2 final score did the game justice.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I missed this last night and had forgotten about by morning!

Threepoints on day 1. Some seasons it takes us a month to get that many!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I saw the last 30 mins or so of that game. Fantastic atmosphere at Goodison and I was really pleased that your boys managed to hang on. I rather think that Everton are a good outside bet for a Europa place this year.
 

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Posted by Shire Dweller (# 16631) on :
 
Now here's an assertion for football supporters to disagree on - Big Clubs!

The ultra subjective (and so brilliant) concept of what makes a Big Club is worth querying. Do you agree or disagree with this interpretation of “Big Club”:

Many supporters and commentators often use the term “Big Club” as a claim of innate superiority over others. It's ultra subjective as the factors involved and importance of each factor vary according to opinion (much like Christianity...)

I assert that the correct factors in descending order of importance are: (i) Titles won, (ii) European Trophies won, (iii) Cups won, (iv) size of fan base, (v) commercial success, (vi) overall wealth, (vii) facilities and (vii) potential size of fan base in England and overseas

Shire Dweller's assertions:

There are only 4 Big Clubs with two other categories of nearly and potential Big Clubs

Big Clubs - 1) Man Utd, 2) Liverpool, 3) Chelsea, 4) Arsenal

a) Man Utd are now bigger than Liverpool due to the cumulative effect of more Titles with 3 European Cups/Champions Leagues and their immense domestic and international fan base and commercial success
b) Liverpool are still the 2nd Biggest Club due to their Titles, Cups and being the most successful English club in Europe. They also have immense potential
c) Chelsea's Champions league win and their multiple recent Cups and titles have propelled them upwards. They are now the Biggest of the London clubs.
d) Arsenal are less of a Big Club than Chelsea but due to their history of success and potential are not yet out of this category. Its up to Man City to shift them.

Current Nearly Big Clubs - 1) Man City, 2) Newcastle, 3) Tottenham

All three have great potential and at least some success in the past – although City could become Big fairly soon by winning more titles and a Champions League.

Other Potentials (but not for a while) - 1) Aston Villa, 2) Leeds United

These clubs have the capacity to be massive in their own area but for a variety of reasons, the West Midlands and Yorkshire just aren't cutting it at football at the moment.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I would propose an alternative definition: The 'bigness' of your club is defined by the number of others who hate you.

Leeds are massive.
 

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Posted by Shire Dweller (# 16631) on :
 
Yes, the Premier League of Hatred is another way of doing it:

Perhaps for general fans the top 3 most hated clubs are:

1) Man Utd (clearly!)
2) Chelsea
3) Leeds

(This is discounting particularly parochial rivalries eg. The visceral malevolence between West Brom and Wolves fans – when in all honesty they are both just different species of the Genus “Brummie”)
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I'd like to make a case for my club, Everton.

I don't claim Everton is a big club but they hold these distinctions:

Everton was a founder member of the Football League.
Everton has played in the Division 1/Premiership for more seasons than any other club.
Everton holds the record for home wins in Division 1/Premiership (yeah our away record isn't so hot!)
Everton has scored more Division 1/Premiership goals than any other club.
Goodison Park was the world's first completely purpose-built football ground. It was the first ground to have undersoil heating installed.
Dixie Dean holds the record for most goals in a Division 1/Premiership season (60 in 39 games). He also scored a record 7 hat-tricks. Oh for a 21st century Dixie Dean.

On the other hand Everton has lost (and drawn) more matches than any other club!

eta: we've won a few titles over the years too: five FA Cups and nine Division 1/Premiership titles.

[ 27. August 2012, 21:09: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

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Posted by Shire Dweller (# 16631) on :
 
Presumably you want to be Big rather than Hated....

Everton is a funny old team – few seem to dislike them particularly much (correct me if I'm wrong) – even the red half of Merseyside seem to get on fairly well with Everton but that good will could just be the Moyes effect. No-one could have liked Andy Gray when he was there...

If Everton acquired a Sugar daddy then they would have potential, but would still need to win more trophies – then I'd say they could be big.

The problem with the notionally smaller clubs that could become big is of course the need for a billionaire to transform the place. And there aren't that many of them wanting football clubs now which is why Liverpool ended up with new owners that aren't actually all that wealthy (in football terms)
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Shire Dweller:
Presumably you want to be Big rather than Hated....

Everton is a funny old team – few seem to dislike them particularly much (correct me if I'm wrong) – even the red half of Merseyside seem to get on fairly well with Everton but that good will could just be the Moyes effect. No-one could have liked Andy Gray when he was there...

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quote:

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If Everton acquired a Sugar daddy then they would have potential, but would still need to win more trophies – then I'd say they could be big.

The problem with the notionally smaller clubs that could become big is of course the need for a billionaire to transform the place. And there aren't that many of them wanting football clubs now which is why Liverpool ended up with new owners that aren't actually all that wealthy (in football terms)

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We'd rather be successful than 'Big', but unlike some we don't think titles come with the name and history; a bit of respect would do, but that doesn't come with history either.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
A perspective from this side of the pond. I was at Sears the other day, walking through the boy's clothing department on my way to the large home appliances. They had a selection of association football shirts, which you never would have seen when I was growing up. Two European club shirts were available: Man U and Barcelona. So clearly, Man U is the "big club" from our perspective. Enough young boys or parents know who they are to want to buy the shirts.

You could probably find a Chelsea, Arsenal, or Liverpool shirt at a soccer-specific store. Casual fans know who these teams are, mostly because they have been common faces in the Champions League since it has been carried on American television. They haven't made the leap to a regular department store, but you see a shirt from time to time on the street. They would probably qualify as lesser big teams. Man City could jump in with a run of Champion's League appearances.

Everyone else is relegated to dedicated soccer fan subculture. If you haven't spent several years on TV in Champion's League games, the only reason we know about you is because we pay extra for the cable soccer channel. You may get highlights on ESPN or a game on Fox, but it is because you are playing Man U or one of the lesser three. I guess last season, my local soccer bar was split 50/50 between Spurs and Arsenal fans during one match, but those were serious fans. You probably wouldn't see someone in a Spurs shirt unless they were a pretty serious fan, and they probably bought it online.
 

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Posted by Shire Dweller (# 16631) on :
 
That's interesting.

How much of a minority sport is football now in the US? Other than the problem that you call the game the wrong name? ....

American players who've come to England have mostly been competent and the American team at World Cups is often also competent..... which cannot always be said for England. So there must be a fairly significant interest in the game.

A comparison would be that all US sports are 'minority' interest in Britain if you take the availability of merchandise as a measuring stick. Basketball things from the NBA are available in sports shops but there is next to nothing for American Football, Baseball and Ice Hockey unless you order it on-line.

Man Utd have been marketing overseas for years and since 2005 and the Glazer takeover they've gone into overdrive in marketing around the world - particularly the US market. Most other 'Big clubs' are playing catch up.
But the US will be hearing more of Liverpool in the future due to their aquisation by (seemingly competent) US interests from (totally incompetent) Cowboys. Liverpool's strategy will be to market relentlessly in the US.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Association Football fans in the United States tend to be under 40, but as those of us who follow the game start having kids, it may become a bigger sport. (I can think of at least one person I went to school with who is raising his kids as Barcelona fans). I would say it still ranks fifth, just below ice hockey, but the NHL could easily be caught in the next few years.

The majority of the professional sports teams in Denver (but not the Broncos, who are the biggest shot by a long measure) are owned by Stan Kroenke, who also owns a majority of Arsenal. Although they do have a development deal with the local MLS team, you really do not see any marking push on the part of Arsenal here. So I don't know if Liverpool will do anything specific to target the US.

I will say that if Clint Dempsey is transferred to Liverpool and keeps getting playing time, I suspect that US soccer fans will start watching the reds a little closer.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Soccer is a strange one in the US. For many people of Hispanic descent, it is their only sport. Here in DC, I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Salvadorians and a lot of them wear Barca, Real, or Salvadorian shirts. A lot of the hard-core support for DC United is also from Latinos.

On the other hand, soccer is the game that middle class white girls play. The 'soccer mom' stereotype has a certain truth to it.

And then there is a growing number of people who watch European (and USMNT and USWNT) soccer because they have come to like the sport. I watch a lot of Chelsea games with guys from the DC chapter of Chelsea In America, and most of them are people who have been to Europe for one reason or another, have been introduced to the game, and who fell in love with it. Most of the are naturally Europhillic to begin with and many only have the most tenuous reasons for choosing Chelsea rather than any other club. But still, they have become genuine supports.

When Chelsea were here on tour this summer, I had the privilege of going to a Q&A session with Ron Gourlay. From the way he was talking, the club definitely sees the US as a big potential market to be tapped. I'm sure that the new financial fair play rules are a big part of the motivation. Chelsea are a ways behind United, Barca, Real, and a few others (although, surprisingly, NOT Liverpool) on this front but they're working pretty hard at it. If I wear a Chelsea shirt around the university campus where I work, I'll quite frequently have people smile at the badge or shout "Chelsea" from the other side of the street. Awareness is definitely growing, especially among the late teens and early twenties age bracket.

And then there are the expats, who tend to shake their heads in barely comprehending despair as they listen to Americans talk about the "EPL", the "UCL", "PKs", ask which city Chelsea are from, have promotion and relegation explained to them for the umpteenth time, and marvel that there can be more than one club in each city.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I would say it still ranks fifth, just below ice hockey, but the NHL could easily be caught in the next few years.

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Actually, depending how you do the statistics, it can rank as high as second. My memory is (and I can't be bothered to go and check, so I may be wrong) that if you take the average attendance at each match, then the MLS (which I guess I didn't get around to writing about in my previous post - oops! ) is second only to football among pro sports.

Obviously, if you take total attendence throughout a season, then the MLS drops because there aren't that many teams and there aren't that many games. But I think the MLS also does quite well in terms of average stadium occupation (as in, percentage of seats sold) too.
 

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Posted by Shire Dweller (# 16631) on :
 
It definitely is a new departure to think of European clubs becoming popular in America.

I'm not in the least bit surprised that Chelsea have the potential to be popular. Historically Chelsea's supporter base has always been an amalgam of the “cool set” in whatever era and the working class from west / south west London. Chelsea hoover up new supporters who like the feel good West London / success / coolness aspect of their historic set up. The cash Abramovich has also helps...

The appeal of the different English clubs wont be just down to marketing – Your Chelsea-ness is somehow now part of your identity, even if just part of a football sub culture in the US. But it is being part of an identity that will define which club people pick.

Eg. “Winners” will inevitably pick the winning sides. That will result in the most bizarre situations of people in Arkansas starting to support Man City. Man Utd have had this kind of “winner” support for years.
And those who are attracted to history and tradition (and a persecution complex...) will fall for Liverpool (just experience a big floodlit match at Anfield for that - even on TV)

Q: The English Premier League often asserts that it's success overseas is mostly down to that the games are fast paced and exciting. As opposed to Spain where the skill level is higher but the matches are often boring.

Would you say this is a reason for the Premier League becoming popular in the US?
Or is it just an English language thing?
Or an attraction to the identity and history and traditions of the Premier League clubs?
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I should add - I'm a British expat, so I took my Chelsea-ness with me to the States.

But to answer your question, I would say a bit of all three. But the style of football is probably the least important of the reasons you mention. It also helps that all Premiership matches are available on cable*, which isn't necessarily true of Serie A or the Bundesliga, for example. And I would also add that the Premiership is the most popular only with a (mostly white) English-speaking audience. I think that most Spanish-speaking fans watch either La Liga or Mexican football.


* In fact, there is more soccer on TV in the US than in Britain.
 

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Posted by Shire Dweller (# 16631) on :
 
My apologies for my presumptuousness

Now that I know you are British I suddenly feel that I don't have to be so balanced and can put the boot into Chelsea like I'm supposed to....

But more pertinently, if you're British why are you referring to Football using the heretical term ******?

Of course the term “Association Football” is acceptable. But ******?

.....
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Seriously folks, if "most hated club" is your criterion for bigness - there is only one team in London ;-)
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Shire Dweller, I've been in North America long enough that the word 'football' is genuinely ambiguous in my mind*. But feel free to lay into Chelsea - it's only a sign that we're better than you. Who are you team of choice, so that I know when I can dish it out?

ken - Millwall?

* I also eat fries, drink soda, pronounce the letter 'z' as "zee", and so on. I figure that if I was living in Germany I would expect to speak German, so as I'm in America it's reasonable that I speak American. C'est la vie.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

ken - Millwall?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Seriously folks, if "most hated club" is your criterion for bigness - there is only one team in London ;-)

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Yup, West Ham United. Utterly deluded thanks to sporadic success and messrs Moore, Hurst and Peters.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Okay.

Having Big Sam back in the Prem has to be one of the worst things about this season. The only thing more annoying than their rugby style long ball is their insistence that they play 'proper football'.

But on another note - it's the draw for the Champions League group stages today. Looking at the list of which clubs are in which pots, you could get a group with Real, City, Juve, and Dortmund - the current champions of the four best leagues in Europe. That would be some Group Of Death!
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Dempsey to Spurs. Replacing van der Vaart and Mordic is going to be tough, but getting an attacking force like Dempsey is a step in the right direction.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So much for his wish to play Champions' League football. Tee hee.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Liverpool paying the bills it seems.

I get the strong feeling Suarez is gone this time next season. Which wouldn't be a bad thing, as he can't seem to score consistently.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

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Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Dempsey to Spurs. Replacing van der Vaart and Mordic is going to be tough, but getting an attacking force like Dempsey is a step in the right direction.

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
We used to have a Ship of Fools fantasy football league. Is anyone interested if I set one up for this season?

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Sounds fun to me!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Okay. The number you have to enter to sign up is

564230-478692

I've said to only start scoring from Gameweek 4, so if you don't yet have a team you shouldn't be at a disadvantage.

iF
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oh, and Gameweek 4 starts after the international break on September 15th, so you have a couple of weeks to organize.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Watched Liverpool vs. Arsenal.


And then read 4 different articles on the match.

2 think Liverpool are awful

2 think Liverpool did OK all things considered and are a work n progress

All grudgingly accept that Arsenal are back in business.

I swear UK sports media have ADD.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Watched Liverpool vs. Arsenal.


And then read 4 different articles on the match.

2 think Liverpool are awful

2 think Liverpool did OK all things considered and are a work n progress

All grudgingly accept that Arsenal are back in business.

I swear UK sports media have ADD.

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I am dreading seeing my colleague at school who is a hard-core Arsenal fan. This the worst start I've seen for my side, Spurs, since I became a supporter at the beginning of this century!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Okay. The number you have to enter to sign up is

564230-478692

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Any thoughts on England's stroll in the park yesterday evening?

The only thing that stood out to me was how much of a chav Tom Cleverley is. So it must have been a fascinating game.

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Originally posted by pjl:
Englands match with Ukraine should give us a better
insight into their chances.
But is anybody thinking they have a chance of going
far in the comp.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Day:

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I am dreading seeing my colleague at school who is a hard-core Arsenal fan. This the worst start I've seen for my side, Spurs, since I became a supporter at the beginning of this century!

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Weren't you worse a few years ago before Redknapp took over? You were 17th or something almost half way through the season...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Any comments on England? I watched the game on a crappy internet feed with Ukrainian commentary which was actually quite a fun experience because it meant that I had to really watch the game in order to follow the detail. I thought 1-1 was a fair reflection of the game - Ukraine defended well and deserved a point, but England didn't merit any more than that because their attacking was rather toothless.

But most interestingly, Uncle Roy seems to be making a concerted effort to change his stereotyped style of play: Very few long balls and centre halves trying to pass out from the back. It will clearly take some more work to get it right!

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quote:

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Meanwhile, in other news, Anton Ferdinand has made it known that he will not shake the hand of either John Terry or Ashley Cole should they play at Loftus Road tomorrow. Obviously I'm somewhat partial in this matter so I won't delve into the soap opera part of the story, but I do wonder when the FA will either get rid of the handshakes altogether, or crack heads and get all the players in line.

---

As you suggest, the FA should stop this charade. It would send a better message to the fans if the players did so after the game.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I watched two friendly games of South Africa last week: against Brazil (away), and against Mozambique (at home).

The first game showed that in spite of their win, the Brazilian squad definitely still has a lot of work to do before 2014. The match against Mozambique was plain boring.

Although I didn't watch the Holland games against Turkey and Hungary, I'm quite pleased with the results
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
James Milner was England's best player?! Who said that? I thought he was awful. Not quite as bad as Tom Cleverly, but pretty terrible. I thought Baines, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Gerrard, Lampard, Hart, Jagielka, and Lescott all had reasonable evenings. Dafoe was never allowed to get into the game because we couldn't get the ball anywhere near him, and Johnson's second half performance was a distinct improvement on his showing in the first 45 minutes. And frankly reasonable, workman-like play from many players who are not first choice will probably be enough to see us squeak through qualification. But it will be interesting to find out if we have another gear when Rooney, Cole, Carroll, and the rest are fit again.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
And it looks like Canada is almost out of it for 2014 already. Not quite as fast as 4 years ago, but darn close.

If you don't win at home, you don't go through.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
All will be well, or at least on the mend, if Spurs win today... Otherwise, we may not have the right manager but just a bumbling incompetent passing through!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oh no Sir K, while I'm not AVB's biggest fan, you have to give him more than four games before you talk about his successor.
 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
All will be well, or at least on the mend, if Spurs win today... Otherwise, we may not have the right manager but just a bumbling incompetent passing through!

---

Well, there you go. A good 3-1 win, although you should be worried about conceding right at the end...

Bit disappointed that Charlton lost to Crystal palace, but think we'll prob end up mid table anyway.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I watched most of the Reading v Spurs game today. Reading had a really dominant spell for 15 minutes or so after half time, but were unable to force a goal. If they had (and that would have made the score line 1-1 at the time) I think the rest of the game could have been different.

But credit to Spurs: they defended well enough, showed intermittent fluidity as they attacked (two of the goals were peaches) and Dembele looks like a monster. Jury's still out on AVB though.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Everton v Newcastle was quite an occasion. First there was the pre-game tribute to the Hillsborough families, then a great game marred only by some lousy officiating. Then again, I don't think goalline technology will resolve all situations.

It's bad enough when you lose one goal through a refereeing error but when it happens twice you get paranoid, especially as we don't score buckets of goals. David Moyes can take a lot of credit for not over-reacting - I think many managers would end up with a touchline ban after that, but dignity isn't points.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Is it just me, or do the officials seem to be having trouble getting back into the swing of things this season? I think most clubs have got some legitimate gripe or another already.

In this instance, Moyes is right to be circumspect - the bad officiating hurt Newcastle as well, most obviously when advantage was not played for a foul on Ben Arfa as he broke from the 'not over the line' goal. But for the hour or so that I saw of it, it was a cracking game: proper frenetic Premiership football.

Now onto the Champions' League, where I'm sure we'll see a totally different style of play.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Last weekend my team, playing a home game, managed to lose 3–0, even after one of the opponents' players had been sent off.


 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Off to Millwall v Cardiff soon. Last season's fixture one of the Cardiff supporters was so carried away by the exuberance of the occasion that he fell off the top tier of the stands. Not tonight I think...
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
When Madrid lost to Munich Mourinho looked strangely tired, and the team seemed without hunger. Both appeared to be hungry this evening, and I wonder if that game today will be their Olympiakos. Long way to go, though.

I like that Toure.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yaya or Kole?

Yeah, he's a beast.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Oh no Sir K, while I'm not AVB's biggest fan, you have to give him more than four games before you talk about his successor.

---

He finally got the team up to speed last weekend and put us in the top ten. I hope they continue at full speed ahead. Looking forward to Sunday's match against Rangers. I am pleased with AVB now. Wonder when the new keeper will play.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
SPURS beat Man U at Old Trafford on Saturday!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yeah, and they deserved it. Cracking game too - especially the first half of the second half, if you get me.

I think Spurs fans are organizing on open-top bus parade for Wednesday night.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I saw Flamengo x Fluminense (the famous Fla-Flu classic) yesterday. In Brazil, I'm a Flamengo supporter. In the last five minutes, while frantically looking for an equalizer, Flamengo managed to miss a penalty and have a goal cancelled by the ref

Meanwhile, the team I support in Holland, FC Groningen, did much better: they scored the winning goal after 93 minutes and 50 seconds!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
QPHahaha!
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
SPURS beat Man U at Old Trafford on Saturday!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
SPURS beat Man U at Old Trafford on Saturday!

---

You have to feel sorry for Fergie though, only being allowed three minutes of injury time. Well maybe not.

---

He must be well pissed off, having paid for at least twice that.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I don't think he pays for anything - it's his by divine right!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
'Spurs also had a good result today which bodes well for the rest of the season. I missed seeing the match on television as I was busy with Formula One...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I hate international breaks.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I hate international breaks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Oh, its not so bad. Wrexham beat Stockport away last night.

---

quote:

---

San Marino. A country whose entire resident population could fit into less than half of Wembley Stadium. What's the betting that Rooney gets a red card and a three-match ban? Or someone else puts their leg out for a month?

---

He'll probably get a goal too. What has possessed Hodgson giving him the captaincy
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
What are the other options?
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
What are the other options?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Honestly, I find that quite hard to assess. I can kind-of see what you mean though. I just tried to compose a reasoned response trying to encapsulate my conflicted feelings on the question, but I was struggling to find words so I'll have to think about it and try again later.

But what I would say is that the game has never been perfect. The question is whether it is worse now than it used to be.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:


And on the other hand, there are some ways in which things are demonstrably better - much less violence from fans, distinctly less discrimination (although that is obviously a battle that has not been fully won), and probably a higher standard of football in the top flight being three things which come to mind.

What is the sum of these competing factors? I'm not sure.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

If I didn't know that no true Yorkshireman could do such a thing I would almost be tempted to believe that Warnock trains his men to cheat and encourages them to foul.

---

If he was then he would only be following the example of the English game's most successful manager.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Madness at the Madjeski tonight: Reading go 4-0 up in their League Cup game against Arsenal, and somehow manage to lose 5-7.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
I arrived in Katowice, turned on the computer and it was 4-0. I was talking with a family member and keeping an eye on games, and saw 4-1, 4-2 and then 4-3 with a few minutes to go. We watched extra-time together, and she was exited enough to tell her husband about it on the phone.

By the way, regarding the mancs at yours the other day, do you have a view? (Well of course you do, but I am wondering what it is.) For what it's worth, Torres used to get singled out for battering when he played for us (like Suarez now, not that anyone ever hears that ) which led to him getting moody and doing things like over-reacting to fouls. Evans came at him two-footed (like he did....no, I'll shut up about that) and Torres got touched and over-reacted. Therefore, from behind, it looked like he dived.

So I reckon anyway.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
My view is that Clattenburg had a pretty terrible game all round. Torres was lucky only to get booked for his first yellow, Mikel could have received a second yellow, Valencia was also fortunate, and Rooney could have gone too. Both he and the linesman should have seen the offside for Hernandez's goal but I think that's probably immaterial since I guess United would have scored before the final whistle anyway. But it was still a dreadful decision.

As for the specific incident with Evans and Torres, I'm convinced it was a foul by Evans. In fact, I heard that Evans' studs ripped a hole in Torres' sock. Torres went down easily but then so does every striker in the league so it would be unfair to single him out.

I've never liked Clattenburg. He's far too keen to make himself the centre of attention, and I think it's a really bad idea for the FA to hire refs with a history of dodgy financial dealings. It makes it too easy for them to take money that they shouldn't. So I hope he never refs again.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My Spurs had some hope of defeating City after we scored first in the first half. Sadly, that hope vanished in the second when the dreaded Manchester side scored an equalizer. Did we have the wrong keeper? This was a must-win match and sadly, Freidel seems to be a bit past it - he's over forty, for God's sake! I don't want to see him this week or next. We spent good money for a potential replacement - why not use him a bit more?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Friedel's been in excellent form this season. I watched the second half of that game, and I didn't think he was the problem at all. Mancini won it for them by changing City's shape to get an extra man in midfield to break up Spurs' counter attacks. That, and some brilliance from Silva.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
As usual, you're the technical expert: I am but a novice fanatic who never played the game in school as my brother did. I know just enough to officiate a game in the schoolyard when I fill in for the PE coach...
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Sir Kevin,

Once the name "Parker" appears on Spurs team sheet again, they will improve. He hasn't played all season and he won't be back until the new year.

Mind you, they lost Modric in the summer too, so they won't do as well this season as they did last anyway. Sorry about that.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Their gaffer's a bit crap too.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So...

Zlatan, eh?
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 
For those who didn't see it: Linky
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Is there anyone in the worlds who hasn't seen that yet?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Is there anyone in the worlds who hasn't seen that yet?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

It won't be the best ever anyway. Matty Burrows scored that for Glentoran a couple of years ago.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

---

The best goal I ever saw was when a keeper kicked a ball the entire length of the pitch to score a goal. Apparently, this was some time ago and I do not remember who it was...

That header for Sweden was amazing, though. I watched it just now.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I have a vague memory of that, Sir K, although I didn't see it. It wasn't Peter Schmeikel was it?

I don't post here very often; an Ipswich supporter has bugger-all to shout about these days (especially not today as we got stuffed 6-1 ).

For obvious reasons, I'm not usually over-thrilled when Norwich City win either, but when they beat Manchester f****** United that's a different matter altogether ...



[ 18. November 2012, 01:59: Message edited by: piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 
I remember Pat Jennings scoring for Spurs from inside his own penalty area, but that was back in the early 70s I guess. Some wind assistance, a good bounce and there you go. It's extremely rare, but not unique.

quote:

---

That header for Sweden was amazing, though. I watched it just now.

---

Which header was that then?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Joe Hart.
 

---

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dark Knight:
You should see it, SS. Apparently even Gerrard said it was the best goal he'd ever seen.

---

The best goal I ever saw was when a keeper kicked a ball the entire length of the pitch to score a goal. Apparently, this was some time ago and I do not remember who it was...

---

Tim Howard did that for Everton last season against Bolton Wanderers.

Video here.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Big week for Europe's elite clubs as the Champions' League groups play their penultimate games. A few teams still have a lot of work to do.

Including Chelsea who need at least a draw away to Juventus to keep any realistic prospect of progress alive. I confess I am a bag of nerves.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Big night, and we comprehensively failed to turn up. Apart from Petr Cech who was immense for the whole game. Most disappointing.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs accomplished damn-all nothing today, in spite of having both Adebayor and Defoe. Would that we still had Modric! What were we thinking, letting him go? Our side just sleep-walked through the match which I recorded while I carefully avoided reading the English newspapers - I wonder what tomorrow's Grauniad will think of it....

God help us if we cannot score big in our next Premier League meeting. Should we try to lure Harry back?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Sir K,

Spurs have to thank Hugo Lloris and Lazio's profligate Kozak for their point in Rome. They defended badly, Sandro is desperately limited and alongside him, in effectively a two-man midfield, they had Tom Carroll, a promising 18 year old.

They are missing Parker more than Modric, or Van der Vaart for that matter. We've seen two London football managers go this week - any more?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I think Villas Boas cares much more about the Europa League than the Spurs fans and the Spurs board do. That was the competition in which he made his name, winning it with Porto 2011, whereas most English fans see it as a bit of a waste of time.

So no - if anything will undo Villas Boas, it will be Premiership form. But I rather suspect that Spurs' board will be rather less trigger-happy than Chelsea's. I would be shocked if he didn't get the whole season.

But on the other sacking of this week, I'm completely unsurprised it happened. Not only is QPR's league position awful, their performances on the field are getting worse rather than better. If a managerial change is going to be made then doing it before January makes sense. And I'm sure they could do a lot worse than 'Arry.

As for Chelsea, I've done denial and anger, and am currently bargaining.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Celtic 0 - Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1.

Now that's what I call a result.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Do you follow the Scottish national team at all piglet? Who'd be your pick for their new manager?

Edited to add - Assuming, of course, that they haven't appointed anyone while I wasn't looking.

[ 24. November 2012, 22:52: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I can't really say I follow them, IF - I read their results in the Daily Telegraph on t'interweb and I despair.

Having said that, I reckon Sir Alex Ferguson's wasted on Manchester ******* United ...
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by piglet:
Celtic 0 - Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1.

Now that's what I call a result.

---

Back when both Inverness teams were in the Highland League one of them beat Celtic in a cup competition to provoke the headline:

"SuperCaleyarefantasticCelticareatrocious".

Along with "East Five four: Forfar Five", the best lines to come of football anywhere.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
A good result last weekend put us back in 7th place, by effectively swapping places with our opponents! Hope for the future, then...
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
On Saturday this week a Certain Small Team from South London will go into the traditionally least unfriendly of the three South-East London Derbies unbeaten in twelve matches, having conceded two goals in seven matches, having scored more often in the last 15 minutes than any other team in the league this season...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Wow. It took me fully thirty seconds to parse that sentence.

I assume you're referring to Millwall v Charlton. I don't think Charlton could scare anyone, could they?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Wow. It took me fully thirty seconds to parse that sentence.

I assume you're referring to Millwall v Charlton. I don't think Charlton could scare anyone, could they?

---

Some of their supporters worry for them. Has anyone heard from Tom Day recently? He's a Valiant man.
 

---

Posted by deano (# 12063) on :
 
It is now November, so here in Chesterfield the football season is over!

Good job I also support Man Utd

Actually, I recokon now that Derby COuntry and the Sheffield teams are awol, Old Trafford is my nearest premiership ground. It's about 35 miles accross t'ills, as we say round here.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by deano:

Good job I also support Man Utd

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I don't think Charlton could scare anyone, could they?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Only three games? That's very lucky.

---

That's what Joey Barton said. Then again Barton actually has a worse record than Fellaini, which is going some because our big hairy Belgian has a nasty streak to him; it was improving and I hope this teaches him a lesson.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Not sure this is really football news, but the High Court has ordered new inquests into the deaths of 96 Liverpool supporters at Hillsborough, 23 years ago.

Another step on the long road to justice.
 

---

Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on :
 
Yes! It certainly is a 'long, long road'*, but this is another positive step along the way.

*He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother by the Justice Collective - on sale or download now.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
SPURS NUMBER THREE! (as of this writing)
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Everton midfielder Marouane Fellaini has been banned for three matches by the Football Association for headbutting Stoke's Ryan Shawcross.

The incident occurred in the 59th minute of Saturday's 1-1 Premier League draw at the Britannia Stadium.

It was not seen by the match officials, but was caught on video.

Why the hell wasn't Ballotelli banned for three games last year wehn he trod on the head of Gareth Bale after tripping him up? Why wasn't he given a red card before play was allowed to proceed, resulting in two penalty kicks by Keane which made us loose the game?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Anyone watch the Bradford - Villa game yesterday? Fantastic spectacle! Tight ground packed to the rafters. Home crowd in manic delirium. Away fans giving as good as they got. And on the pitch - good, honest, structured, effective endeavor from the Bradford players which the youngsters from Birmingham were completely unable to match. And four proper goals.

Tonight is Chelsea - Swansea, in what should be a much more even game. Should be good!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I work with another teacher who is a rabid Arsenal supporter: when I gave him a ribbing about the match his side lost 5-2 against my Spurs late last year, he just told me about some Tottenham loo paper he got off eBay...


 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
(I like to think of my friend's side as The Arseholes, but of course I don't tell him that as there are always small children about when we meet as we are both schoolteachers.....)
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Ha ha Spurs.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Nil-Nil, what a bloody farce! Enjoying Reading match on Spurs TV...
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Eff off, IF! Least-wise, our archrivals the Arseholes managed by Arsene Wenger lost: I shall be chiding my friend in the teachers' lounge later this week! Thank God Adebayor is not leaving the country.

I said this about them in the NFL thread:

Thanks to bloody Chelsea's 4 points added and our nil-nil draw against the worst side in the league, although they had a superior defense yesterday. The Queens Park Rangers shall still be relegated. Fourth place stinks - we're better than that!
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Eff off, IF! Least-wise, our archrivals the Arseholes managed by Arsene Wenger lost: I shall be chiding my friend in the teachers' lounge later this week! Thank God Adebayor is not leaving the country.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
No interest in Liverpool since the Beatles started taking drugs in 1967.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
No interest in Liverpool since the Beatles started taking drugs in 1967.

---

They started much earlier than that!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I hope we defeat Man U soundly on Sunday and that Arsenal loses also!
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Have you seen any of Being: Liverpool? It's fantastic in a toe-curling kind of way.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Good point today, Sir Kevin?

---

Good to see the scum concede very late on for once. Noted that SAF was moaning about the officials again.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
...and the world kept turning.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
I love the FA cup...I really do.

Yes, one of my teams is out now to a relative minnow but still, there is something about a cupset. Like who didn't enjoy Luton winning this week, or Oldham?

Not talking about Spurs here though...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Who did Spurs get in the fifth round draw? Oh yeah...

And speaking of Luton, I can guarantee that one group of people not happy with their progress is the local police department who have to welcome Millwall. You up for trouble, Ken?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sir Kevin, let me be the first to congratulate you on the imminent success of your one-man campaign to drive Mario Balotelli out of the Premiership. He's about to be sold to AC Milan.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And speaking of Luton, I can guarantee that one group of people not happy with their progress is the local police department who have to welcome Millwall. You up for trouble, Ken?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
And if Newcastle win tomorrow, will that be the worst week in Aston Villa's history?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
Beckham may be overpaid, but he is apparently giving it all to charity.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
They've been relegated before. Played a few seasons in the old third division. Things might be bad, but it's not that bad.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
Beckham may be overpaid, but he is apparently giving it all to charity.

---

Bloody amazing! What a selfless thing to do.

---

Not really. He'll still make more money from advertising and commercial opportunities than he would ever have made from the club. Him and Posh aren't going to be on beans on toast just yet.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
How about Marmite on toast? I really enjoy that - it is a guilty pleasure once or twice a week given our new Atkins diet. This low-carb deal had Z losing 4 pounds (not £) last week! Dunno how well I am doing until I see the doctor tomorrow for an industrial injury: sliced up my left hand doing a stupid stunt imitation of Friedel at work. I ran across a vinyl floor and stopped myself having a concussion with my left (writing) hand. Good job I am ambidextrous, but I have to pay cash for everything for a while because my signature is not true when written with the right! My rentacar (thanks to a side-swiping incident with a landscaping truck after early Mass Thursday) has an auto-box. At least the 1.4 L engine is turbocharged and keeps up with traffic well!

Q\Whither Spurs? Is anyone still taking odds that we could finish in third?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Extra style points for the new thread title, Ariston.
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Sometimes, even I have to face the truth.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
And while we're on the subject of football-related hate.

Liverpool!!!! Hahahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaahahahaha!
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Who they got in the Cup? Oh, nobody....
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?

---

Premiership


Champs League: Man Utd, Chelsea, Tottenham
Relegated: Swansea, Wigan, Southampton

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
As it turns out, they relied on De Gea playing a blinder. Some absolutely quality saves that kept United in it time and time again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
As it turns out, they relied on De Gea playing a blinder. Some absolutely quality saves that kept United in it time and time again.

---

He was almost as good as Foster was for West Brom against Liverpool on Monday
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Another round of Champions' League games today and tomorrow. Do Arsenal have any chance whatsoever against Bayern?

(No.)
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
My heart says "no" to Arsenal.

But, but...
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
My heart says "no" to Arsenal.

But, but...

---

But looking at the bookies odds - which are better predictors of results than expert opinions (and there fore much better than my non-expert ones) you can get 3:1 from some bookies for Arsenal to win. At home. That's the same as they are offering for Peterborough away to Millwall (where I will be in a couple of hours DV )
Not very encouraging for Arsenal at all!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sorry, but while my head says "no", my heart says "hahahahahahaaaaahahahaha"!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
My heart says "no" to Arsenal.

But, but...

---

But looking at the bookies odds - which are better predictors of results than expert opinions (and there fore much better than my non-expert ones) you can get 3:1 from some bookies for Arsenal to win. At home. That's the same as they are offering for Peterborough away to Millwall (where I will be in a couple of hours DV )
Not very encouraging for Arsenal at all!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, the new (English) season kicks off this weekend. Anyone have any predictions - serious or flippant?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And as for your predictions, I'd take issue with Chelsea in second. The 'manager' has completely lost the dressing room, he's demonstrating just how terrible he is at his job, the players have no passion, and we've got awful fixture congestion brought on by cup replays and the Europa. We're on for fifth place, I fear.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Betts:

Championship

Promotion:
Cardiff and Hull


Playoffs:

I predict (as I would have at the beginning of the season) that Leicester will make the playoffs this year, but won't win promotion. I predict that Crystal Palace will win the playoffs and be the third team which goes up.

---

Cardiff, clearly. But Hull are no better than Watford, and Leicester better than either. I'm not sure Palace have the oomph they need to get back to the top two. If I had to bet on second place I think I'd go for Leicester at the moment, and then maybe Watford.

As for playoffs, there are still loads of teams who might be there. Its wide open.

There are only 10 points between 6th place and 16th. If any of the 3rd-6th placed teams hits a bad patch they will drop out - maybe not Hull who are ten points up, but the other three easily. And Boro & Forest & Leeds (6 points outside but a game in hand) only need to win one extra game to replace them.. A good run of three wins in a row could put Bolton or Blackburn or Millwall (8 points behind Brighton but also a game in hand) in the frame as well. And Derby, Burnley, and Charlton have an outside chance.

Sames true of the bottom of that league as well. Barnsley and Ipswich are nowhere near safe yet, and Wednesday, Huddersfield (look at their goal difference!) and even Blackpool or Birmingham could easily drop back into danger.

And Charlton, Millwall, Burnley, and Derby are still capable of going into either the relegation OR the promotion zones. Which is weird at this stage in a season. .
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
ken is (quite reasonably) motivated by his dislike of Crystal Palace. As for the state of the Championship it always seems to be like this and the scramble of the 3rd-6th places is always frantic.

At the moment the Soth Wales Police are on their knees praying that Cardiff don't get promoted. They might be lucky, Cardiff have thrown away a few chances before.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
he's demonstrating just how terrible he is at his job

---

You're of the "it was Houllier's team that won it" school of thought?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm of the "the ghost goal should never have stood and who knows what would have happened if it didn't" school of thought.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
I didn't think that people really believed that.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Makelele certainly didn't at the time

Anyway, Juve/Milan/Madrid/Barcelona/Inter-beating Rafa aside, how much blame should be attached to Abramovitch for the apparent mess that Chelsea are in? How much to the players?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
I didn't think that people really believed that.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
As for the players, yes they are professionals and they should be expected to perform every time they cross the white line. But at the same time it's unrealistic to expect the team's psychology to be right in the current environment. I find it hard to blame them too much.

---

It's hard to see how they can develop any kind of system without a manager who lasts more than a few months. (I mean it took Liverpool a while to adjust to Benítez's zonal marking and Rodgers' passing game.) But without a manager to impose a system, presumably they'll tend to default to whatever they're used to and you end up with a squad of 11 individuals.

(Which makes Benítez a supremely unsuitable manager for Chelsea - even though as a Liverpool fan I rate him very highly - because Benítez is a 'systems' manager. Each player is a piece in a machine that should in principle be replaceable. Each player's function within the machine has to be carefully and painstakingly rehearsed. At best he can get mediocre teams to punch above their weight - e.g. winning the Champions League with Milan Baroš as the only recognised striker - but I get the impression his motivational skills are fairly crap and I can't see him having much time for the galáctico mentality.)

[ 28. February 2013, 14:47: Message edited by: Ricardus ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Our individuals (with the obvious exception of the number nine) are bloody good, so I'm pretty confident that wouldn't be a bad option, short term.

As for the management skills of our 'manager', I have to disagree. He slowly dismantled a decent Liverpool team, single-handedly destroyed Inter, and is now eating Chelsea from the inside out. He should never work again.
 

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Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Let's leave Garcia's goal out of discussion. I find it bizarre to even discuss it.

Thanks for the analysis. Yes, the management is not the best at Chelsea. I cannot say much about the influence of Terry or Lampard, as I don't believe 99% of analysis that I hear about football. You certainly have some class players. The view among Reds is generally that your players are well pissed off with Di Matteo getting the sack and are acting up, only doing the minimum that they need to do. Don't know, myself.

Regarding Rafa, apart from his first (I'll take the runners-up prize of a European Cup) and last season he always had us in the top four. He bought some immensely good players and for a few years we had a very good team, beating the best in Europe again and again. He made some mistakes (not playing Crouch or Bellamy in Athens, selling Alonso) but overall he brought us back to being one of the greats in Europe.

The thing is, you mention the management of Chelsea and the effect that had on the players. Hicks and Gillett made Abramovitch look like John Smith. Rafa had a hell of a lot of bother and wasn't always able to concentrate on the football. You have to admit that if Abramovitch among other effect Chelsea players, Hicks and Gillett had a much bigger effect.

The weird season was Rafa's last. From the 86 point, thrashing the mancs at theirs, beating Madrid 4-0, losing only twice of the year before, we went relatively shite. Torres got injured and started his sulky act. Gerrard was also injured and lost form. The usual solid defense lost it, possibly due to Hyypia being sold due to his age. The selling of Alonso made an influence, but alongside injury problems and the atrocious management it was a difficult season.

I seem to recall that Rafa also had problems with injuries to players at Inter. The southern media didn't like him (hence, I believe, the strange lack of respect given to him by many football fans), but at Liverpool we know that Rafa was one of the best managers to be in English football of the past twenty years.

The thing with Liverpool is that we go from one extreme to another. With Rafa we had the manager who was focussed on controlling the game. We didn't often thrash teams with him for that reason, but by and large his technique worked, especially with his tactics. It was when he tried to get us to play more attacking when the balance got upset.

Now we have someone who is all about attack, and not about controlling the game. He has one tactic. I'd happily take a mix of Rafa's tactics and eye for players, Kenny's man management and Rogers' support of young players
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
When Brendan Rogers was at Swansea back in the second tier, they were one of the teams you didn't mind losing against so much, because the games were always fun and usually fairly played. If they beat you you felt they deserved to win because they were better. There were other teams that gave you that feeling, notably Blackpool of course, and to some extent Reading.

And some teams give you the opposite feeling entirely. Leeds or Birmingham for example. Nasty buggers.

And Leicester seem to have flipped from one to the other. Fun with Pearson, boring with Sven, fun again with Pearson.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And they trade that for 95 degrees plus humidity in DC in the summer. I know which I'd rather.

---

Toilets where the pipes don't burst underneath you.....I'll take a safe potty trip in the heat every time.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
I've just been reading this article from 2007 about the end of Mourinho at Chelsea. It portrays a situation where a class manager like Mourinho or Rafa would find it difficult to flourish in.

Quite why Rafa, who had had a lot of bother with owners at Liverpool would work for Abramovitch is another matter.

In any case, the emergence of Brendan Rogers at the end of the story would confirm the view held by many Liverpool fans that he is a yes-men brought into by a dodgy management.

It seems that Liverpool and Chelsea have more in common than expected.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
SPURS BEAT ARSENAL!
 

---

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Is that sayin' much? Everybody beats Arsenal these days.

*grumble, grumble*
 

---

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :
 
Sat Mar 2:

Southampton 1-2 QPR

Redknapp and his lads have done it again. I'm in two minds whether he can save them from relegation. It could end up being too little too late, but with Harry's reputation you just never know. If they can pull it off, then it's a job well done. QPR are 5 points away from being out of the bottom three at present.

Looking at the teams they will be up against in the next four weeks (Sunderland at home this Saturday) I think they have a chance. Interesting times ahead!

I'm wondering whether to put a wager on it....
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm struggling with the concept that there might be three teams worse than QPR in the whole of English football, let alone in the Premier League.
 

---

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I'm struggling with the concept that there might be three teams worse than QPR in the whole of English football, let alone in the Premier League.

---

But QPR don't need to be "better" than the three clubs beneath them - they just need to beat them on points. If you don't believe me, I'll give you Mauricio Pochettino's number so you can phone him up and chat about it with him!

NB. I don't support QPR, I'm just interested in their progress under Harry Redknapp.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Well, tonight United payed back the first installment of the debt that they owe to beneficent refereeing. Can't say I can muster the slightest scrap of sympathy for them.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Regardless of the teams we support, I think we can all join in with a hearty

(It was a deserved red Though if Mourinho goes there I daresay he'll say something different.)
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I reckon the ref. was narked at Nani lying there as if he was the injured party, and that turned the card from a yellow to a red.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
It was one of those ones that looked bad from some angles and innocuous from others. Seeing it in real time, I would've given a yellow and was surprised when the ref showed red. Seeing the view in your link, I think the red is defensible.

And European refs don't like high feet. Everyone knows that.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Betts:
But QPR don't need to be "better" than the three clubs beneath them - they just need to beat them on points.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Sat Mar 2:

Southampton 1-2 QPR

Redknapp and his lads have done it again. I'm in two minds whether he can save them from relegation. It could end up being too little too late, but with Harry's reputation you just never know. If they can pull it off, then it's a job well done. QPR are 5 points away from being out of the bottom three at present.

Looking at the teams they will be up against in the next four weeks (Sunderland at home this Saturday) I think they have a chance. Interesting times ahead!

I'm wondering whether to put a wager on it....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Sorry for being dense, but who is "the Dutchman" in that context?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Niiiiice!

Or, perhaps, this AVB?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Sat Mar 2:

Southampton 1-2 QPR

Redknapp and his lads have done it again. I'm in two minds whether he can save them from relegation. It could end up being too little too late, but with Harry's reputation you just never know. If they can pull it off, then it's a job well done. QPR are 5 points away from being out of the bottom three at present.

Looking at the teams they will be up against in the next four weeks (Sunderland at home this Saturday) I think they have a chance. Interesting times ahead!

I'm wondering whether to put a wager on it....

---

i'm no longer a BIG fan of Happy Harry, but I wish him well...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
That was dire. Four mad minutes and we're out of the FA Cup, courtesy of Wigan, at home!

---

I thought of you as I watched it. Worse than those four minutes (I thought) was the fact that they didn't look remotely like getting back into the game in the second half.
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
There'll be some headaches in Dingwall tomorrow.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
That was dire. Four mad minutes and we're out of the FA Cup, courtesy of Wigan, at home!

---

I thought of you as I watched it. Worse than those four minutes (I thought) was the fact that they didn't look remotely like getting back into the game in the second half.

---

Quite. Four mad minutes and 86+ tedious, uninspired ones. We wuz lucky to get nil.
 

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Posted by Liberty (# 713) on :
 
Well. Those were some matches today.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Wow, piglet, that's quite a result! Congratulations.

In other news, Chelsea came back from two goals down at Old Trafford to force a replay against United, and Spurs lost. Good Sunday!
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
It's not that I'm really a Ross County supporter, although I lived in Sutherland (the next county up) when I was a very little piglet, and have a soft spot for that part of the country. I was born in Inverness and I like to see Caley Thistle do well.

And I love it when the little guy stuffs the unstuffable.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Not a good result for Spurs on Sunday: Liverpool 3, Tottenham 2. Our keeper was having an off day.


 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
@#$% !!! Why the hell did Spurs bother to show up without Gareth Bale?! Adenbayor strove mightily, but we needed four more of him!

Bloody Hell!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Bale was suspended for receiving too many yellow cards in previous games. AVB didn't have a choice on that one.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Right...
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
How good it is to get back to a competition that matters, against a top team desperate for points and beat them. Last week, Everton were awful against Wigan, this week magnificent against Man City. Everyone played their hearts out, especially when we were down to ten men.

Robert Mancini - you are Officially Clueless. If you come to Goodison Park, Baines and Pienaar will attack down the left. Why do you decide to play wing-backs, especially wing-backs who can't tackle, against a genuine wide threat?

Numpty. Thanks for the points anyway.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yeah, it's one thing to be proactive and try and shape the game to your own strengths (which is what I assume Mancini was trying to do), but you have to pick your time, and playing against the second-best left back in England is probably not the right occasion.
 

---

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :
 
It's Sunderland 1 - 1 Norwich at the Stadium of Light, at HT.

Wesley Hoolahan got the first in for Norwich in 25 minutes. Sunderland's was from a penalty - I think it was due to a handball from Bassong. 2nd half just beginning...

COME ON YELLOWS!!
 

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Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :
 
I forgot to mention our goalie Mark Bunn got a red card just after the first goal - but still we hung on, even when down to 10 men - well done lads.

FT Sunderland 1 - 1 Norwich
 

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Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
West Ham fan here. Watching the Chelsea game. Allardyce ain't got a clue. He's got no game plan. Hit and hope.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
West Ham fan here. Watching the Chelsea game. Allardyce ain't got a clue. He's got no game plan. Hit and hope.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
West Ham fan here. Watching the Chelsea game. Allardyce ain't got a clue. He's got no game plan. Hit and hope.

---

I'm an old git who can remember Sam Allardyce as a player. He hasn't changed much - still all effort and sod all talent.

---

Oh gawd! He ain't changed much. Change the tactics or change the manager. Big fat Sam ain't gonna change the tactics (getting him to admit his mistakes is like trying to get blood out of a stone). Bring in Di Canio. At the very least it would be colourful.
 

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Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
Or Bilic.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I was stuck in a conference so I wasn't able to see the game, but it sounds like the West Ham defenders didn't know how to deal with the Eden Hazard shaped blur that came past them this afternoon. Can you explain to me why Allerdyce took Diame off? That guy was the match winner in the fixture at the Boleyn Ground.

And as for the other London derby today, thank you Fulham!
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
When it comes to London Derbies, Millwall didn;t do so badly either Along with getting on to the TV twice (which will pay more weeks of the wage bill than it would for most 2nd-tier sides, never mind the Prem clubs) and getting to the FA cup semi-final.

And to cap a lovely weekend for South London football, all the stereotyped Milwall fans most hated rivals - Leeds, Palace, and above all Wet Spam - got mullahed.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, the Premiership is back today after its two week hiatus for World Cup qualification games. Swansea v Tottenham and Man City v Newcastle seem to be the ties of the weekend. I'll be hoping the Welshmen and the Toon get results.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Not watched the second half of the 'Spurs match, but confidence is high after two goals in the first 20 minutes!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sunderland sack O'Neill, hire Paulo Di Canio, and lose David Milliband from their board in the process. What on earth are they thinking on Weirside?
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Well, result of the weekend was surely the mighty Southampton beating the champions of Europe! Up to the dizzy heights of 12th place in the Premier League and surely safe from relegation now. (Famous last words )
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yeah - awful weekend for us.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Although our replay against United today made things feel better.

Rio, what's the score?
Rio, Rio, what's the score?


 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Ha ha, I love football crowd banter!

I was at the Saints-Chelsea FA Cup game back in January (1-5, ouch...) and there were several choruses of 'One-nil and you effed it up' from your lot, Imaginary Friend. Not exactly complicated, I realise, but very cutting.

Also from a Southampton FA Cup defeat a few years ago, came 'Oh when the saints, oh when the saints, oh when the saints go sneaking out' as the Southampton fans left early. Again, very cutting!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My 'Spurs came through and are back in third!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, any thoughts on Di Canio's appointment to Sunderland?
 

---

Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
Up the Owls!!

<ahem>Sorry. Couldn't resist saying that. Those three points may prove very useful. (And of course beating Millwall...)
 

---

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, any thoughts on Di Canio's appointment to Sunderland?

---

Don't know. I'd have preferred it if he was at West Ham. I don't like Allardyce.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I don't think anyone likes Allardyce. Did you see the cut he was sporting above his right eye this weekend? Looked nasty.

But more seriously, I'm having a hard time coming to a firm opinion on whether or not his alleged politics should matter. Even if he thinks all the things he is accused of thinking (and I should point out that he denies a lot of it), I'm yet to be convinced that this should stop him from holding the job. Certainly, only a very few people cared when he was the boss at Swindon. But, Ad Orientem, you seem to be suggesting that you'd take him at West Ham, indicating that you don't think his alleged politics are a deal-breaker?

basso - your post prompted me to go and look at the Championship table. It looks on the face of it like your season is kinda over. Not worried about relegation, unlikely to make the playoffs. But that said, any day that Millwall lose is a good day. (I soooo hope we get to play them at Wembley in the cup final. That would be epic.)
 

---

Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

basso - your post prompted me to go and look at the Championship table. It looks on the face of it like your season is kinda over. Not worried about relegation, unlikely to make the playoffs.

---

quote:

---

But that said, any day that Millwall lose is a good day. (I soooo hope we get to play them at Wembley in the cup final. That would be epic.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
But, Ad Orientem, you seem to be suggesting that you'd take him at West Ham, indicating that you don't think his alleged politics are a deal-breaker?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by basso:
Up the Owls!!

<ahem>Sorry. Couldn't resist saying that. Those three points may prove very useful. (And of course beating Millwall...)

---

We are going to Wembley, we are going to Wembley...
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I(I soooo hope we get to play them at Wembley in the cup final. That would be epic.)

---

If Millwall beat Wigan (which is at least possible if not likely) I'd much rather see City than Chelsea win the other semi. Not just because its almost always good to see Chelsea lose (not as good as it is to see Leeds or West Ham or Palace lose, but quite good) but because it means the final, like both semis, would be a London v. Manchester match. Fun for all the family

And quite seriously, whenever Millwall do anything the press coverage is always about violence, racism, street-fighting and so on. That's going to be worse if there is a Millwall-Chelsea match because of the local Derby nature of it, and the history of a certain rivalry between the two sets of fans (old history because they hardly ever play each other) will increase the opportunities for the press and TV to stick the boot in (and also for the fans to as well, if there are any who still want to - not that there need to be the Sun, and the Mail, and Sky TV are quite capable of manufacturing a a Millwall riot out of half a dozen teenagers shouting at each other in the street)

Also the policing would be a nightmare. The number of tickets on sale would be tiny compared with the number of fans who would want to go - they are suggesting 24,000 per club, and Chelsea get a lot more than that to ordinary League matches anyway, and Millwall have had no trouble selling their 30-something thousand to the semi-final. And a lot of the fans who can't get in are going to go out with their mates who have tickets before the match and get pissed anyway, and be hanging around central London or west London. A London-Manchester final avoids that.

The same workls the other way round of course Chelsea v Wigan might be a better idea than Man City v Wigan - but none of the other club's fans have quite the reputation that the Millwall fans have.


I imagine that the FA would dearly love to have had four top teams in the semi-finals, to get a bigger TV audience. At least its evidence that the draw is not rigged. If it had been they would have kept City and Chelsea apart, so there would have been at least one big team in each semi, and a near-certainty of a City v Chelsea final, which would get viewers all over the world. Somehow I doubt that there will be many armchair fans in Kuala Lumpur or Sao Paolo tuning in to Millwall v Wigan.

[ 10. April 2013, 15:59: Message edited by: ken ]
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
And quite seriously, whenever Millwall do anything the press coverage is always about violence, racism, street-fighting and so on. That's going to be worse if there is a Millwall-Chelsea match because of the local Derby nature of it, and the history of a certain rivalry between the two sets of fans (old history because they hardly ever play each other) will increase the opportunities for the press and TV to stick the boot in (and also for the fans to as well, if there are any who still want to - not that there need to be the Sun, and the Mail, and Sky TV are quite capable of manufacturing a a Millwall riot out of half a dozen teenagers shouting at each other in the street).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
The same workls the other way round of course Chelsea v Wigan might be a better idea than Man City v Wigan - but none of the other club's fans have quite the reputation that the Millwall fans have.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Somehow I doubt that there will be many armchair fans in Kuala Lumpur or Sao Paolo tuning in to Millwall v Wigan.

---

True. The FA would be sharing Capital One's pain.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Effing sucks that we struggled to a draw with Basel the day before yesterday and then lost out on penalties! This is malarkey! The match was bloody well rigged!


 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
(One man team.)
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Looks like a few idiots in the Millwall end have given the journos the story they wanted. Shame, that.

But well done Wigan - looked a different class in the first half and deserving winners from what I saw of the game.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Saw a Guardian article comment thread, and reports from Milwall supporters who were there was it was more then a few, and definitely not being overly reported.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Yes! After 3 consecutive victories, my team FC Groningen is now in 8th position! Only 4 more games to go, and if they stay within the first 9 they might go European. Hup Groningen!
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
In news down the other end, Barrow have been relegated to Conference North.
 

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Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :
 
All Greater Manchester cup final

Man City v Wigan

Now to get a ticket
 

---

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
West Ham v. Man U 2-2. A blatantly offside goal. The linesman was a Man U fan?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
It wasn't the same guy that was running the line for Norwich v Arsenal last weekend, was it?
 

---

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
Lol! Maybe.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
We're in bloody oblivion! Why are penalties more important than points scored? My friend the rabid Arseholes fanatic will never let me hear the end of it!

At least the namesake side of under-11 Spurs won on the grammar school playing fields last week when I was coaching them!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why are penalties more important than points scored?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Saw a Guardian article comment thread, and reports from Milwall supporters who were there was it was more then a few, and definitely not being overly reported.

---

I was there and it seemed very over-reported to me. Most fans not in the immediate area honestly hardly noticed the incident that was all over the telly. These things look a look bigger in close-up than they do from a hundred metres or more away.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why are penalties more important than points scored?

---

What do you mean?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Starbug:
Very sad to hear that Hillsborough campaigner Anne Williams has died: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/apr/18/hillsborough-campaigner-anne-williams-dies1

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Why are penalties more important than points scored?

---

What do you mean?

---

The penalties assessed against us after a draw in the match earlier this month drove is down from 3rd to 5th. I feel it's not right! What is up with the half hour of stoppage time!?

---

Ummm... That was a Europa league game, so it had nothing to do with your position in the Premiership. In the league, there is never extra time or penalties: a draw is a draw. However, extra time and penalties is the standard way of deciding a cup tie that's level at the end of normal time.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Must beat City! Rivals must lose!


 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Most teams in the championshp have only got two games to go but there are still some that could either be relegated or promoted. Is this the most competitive league ever?
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
TFC can't hold onto a lead.

ANOTHER goal scored against in extra time.

That makes about 20 in 6 and a bit seasons.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

LeRoc: Yes! After 3 consecutive victories, my team FC Groningen is now in 8th position! Only 4 more games to go, and if they stay within the first 9 they might go European. Hup Groningen!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, Luis Suarez really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't he?

---

I've just read that while Liverpool have fined him they intend to keep him on. What kind of "Gross misconduct" clause is there in his contract? He's a cheat with a record of violent conduct, a disgrace to the game and his club and while he remains at his club, Liverpool FC's reputation, damaged by previous episodes with Suarez, is tarnished too. Had any spectator bitten a player the plod would have thrown him in a cell then had him prosecuted without asking the victim.

I feel sorry for his manager. Ian Ayre (LFC's MD) says it's mostly up to Brendan Rodgers to "work with him on that side of character".
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Did anyone actually expect Liverpool to do the right thing? I certainly didn't.

Edited to add:
Although, amusingly, we had been singing "feed the Scousers..." just before he bit Ivanovic. We didn't mean it quite that literally, Branislav!

[ 22. April 2013, 12:30: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Bring back Norman Hunter.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Who never actually bit anyone.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did anyone actually expect Liverpool to do the right thing? I certainly didn't.

Edited to add:
Although, amusingly, we had been singing "feed the Scousers..." just before he bit Ivanovic. We didn't mean it quite that literally, Branislav!

---

quote:

---

Sioni Sais: I have read that the South American football press are already reporting Suarez being "Hungry for goals".

---

quote:

---

Rosa Winkel: I've seen too many players from many clubs do all manner of diving

---

quote:

---

Rosa Winkel: he cares for the club.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
As for Liverpool standing by him and other clubs doing similar, Liverpool have cut Suarez a fair bit of slack already and he must be running out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Is that the Yakubu who scored? And now he's playing for Newport? Dear me!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

My main problem with the FA is that the process by which their "independent" panel arrives at the length of a ban seems completely arbitrary. It's probably impossible to come up with a systematic way of defining whether biting, a career-ending tackle, racist abuse, or a punch is a worse crime, but I think the FA have to sit down and come up with some way of codifying a scale into which these sorts of things can be fit. Because at the moment, it seems like they're just blowing in the wind of public opinion.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
And now for something completely different ....

if that goes to plan it's the playoff final at Wembley againts Wrexham or Kidderminster on Sunday 5th May.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:

The incompetence of the FA is much bigger than things happening to Liverpool. They're not interested in football fans in general, or the players.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Plucky little Wigan's lack of relegation helped not the Spurs nor did Llorry's lackadaisical goalkeeping!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
but at Wembley .... Newport County have beaten Wrexham in the Conference play-off so they will be in League 2 next year!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by basso:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
but at Wembley .... Newport County have beaten Wrexham in the Conference play-off so they will be in League 2 next year!

---

Good result. Congratulations!

I've got a soft spot for Wrexham; I used to know a fellow who ran a Dragons website from San Mateo County. I think he's moved back home now. Still good to see Newport make it.

And Donny Rovers are promoted, we had a Donny supporter in my local a couple of years ago. He was a bit surprised to meet an American who'd heard of Doncaster, let alone knew a bit of the story about the chairman who tried to burn down the stand.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The Merseyside derby was a so-so goalless draw, Man U v Chelsea is well into the second half, and that too is goal less but at Wembley .... Newport County have beaten Wrexham in the Conference play-off so they will be in League 2 next year!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ad Orientem:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The Merseyside derby was a so-so goalless draw, Man U v Chelsea is well into the second half, and that too is goal less but at Wembley .... Newport County have beaten Wrexham in the Conference play-off so they will be in League 2 next year!

---

Why the hell are Welsh sides allowed to play in the English league?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Why the hell are Welsh sides allowed to play in the English league?

---

quote:

---

LeRoc: Yes! After 3 consecutive victories, my team FC Groningen is now in 8th position! Only 4 more games to go, and if they stay within the first 9 they might go European. Hup Groningen!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I still think it's fundamentally wrong. Wales has its own association. They play as a separate nation in international competition. They should have their own league as well.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I still think it's fundamentally wrong. Wales has its own association. They play as a separate nation in international competition. They should have their own league as well.

---

If they did then it would be Cardiff v Swansea, who currently have some money, plus a dozen unknowns who currently have none. Welsh football fans wouldn't be attracted to that so would travel to English clubs to an even greater than they do already. It would be of the standard of the Irish football leagues in short order.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I still think it's fundamentally wrong. Wales has its own association. They play as a separate nation in international competition. They should have their own league as well.

---

If they did then it would be Cardiff v Swansea, who currently have some money, plus a dozen unknowns who currently have none. Welsh football fans wouldn't be attracted to that so would travel to English clubs to an even greater than they do already. It would be of the standard of the Irish football leagues in short order.

---

You could apply the same logic to Rangers and Celtic. So why not let them in too?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I expect there are plenty of "out of country" participations elsewhere.

---

FC Andorra and AS Monaco come to mind ...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, Ferguson, eh?
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Is Sir Alex really stepping down? Who'd try to replace him?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Word on the street is that Moyes is the most likely. (Any thoughts on that, Sioni?)

And by the way, Sir Kevin, you know what's going down at 1945 BST today, right?
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs v. Chelsea: I am home and shall be watching!
 

---

Posted by Celtic Knotweed (# 13008) on :
 
I know Sir Alex has been about a while, but Radio 5 was sounding more like obituary coverage than retirement coverage today! Took me a few moments this morning to realise he hadn't actually died.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Word on the street is that Moyes is the most likely. (Any thoughts on that, Sioni?)

And by the way, Sir Kevin, you know what's going down at 1945 BST today, right?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Word on the street is that Moyes is the most likely. (Any thoughts on that, Sioni?)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend
Word on the street is that Moyes is the most likely. (Any thoughts on that, Sioni?)

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Posted by balaam
Everyone is assuming that José Mourinho is returning to Chelsea. Anyone else think Mourinho and Man U is a possibility? I wouldn't write it off just yet.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by L'organist:

Word is that Abramovich is balking at the cost of The Special One (and his team of back-room boys): if he thinks its a bit steep then it must be way beyond the means of the heavily-leveraged Glazers.

---

If anything prevents Mourinho rejoining Chelsea it won't be money. Abramovich can and will suck that up. What he won't do willingly is surrender authority to Mourinho of the level he is likely to demand this time round.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
You people are toying with me, you're enjoying it, and I hate you.
 

---

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by balaam:
Anyone else think Mourinho and Man U is a possibility? I wouldn't write it off just yet.

---

Apparently the Man U job is going to David Moyes.
 

---

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
You could apply the same logic to Rangers and Celtic. So why not let them in too?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by L'organist:
Be honest, the only reason why the question of the Welsh clubs is coming up now is because they are actually doing rather well at the moment, certainly when compared to the 1980s.

---

Too true. There was a time when Wrexham were the highest placed Welsh club. Newport went bust and Swansea and Cardiff almost followed them.
 

---

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
Moyes it is. Well, Man Utd fans, wherever you are, fasten your seat-belts, it's gonna be a fucking bumpy ride.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Thank Goodness for that. Come home, Jose.
 

---

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
I must say, speaking strictly between you, me and the corner-flag, that Chelsea have the most sublime mid-field. I said to the wife, says I, if they get another top striker, they are home free. Well, maybe. I live about a mile away, so used to watch them, what a fucking traitor.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
We could do with a proper defensive midfielder too, but I agree we're this close to being bloody good.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Mourinho is both sane and egotistical. Sane egotists don't step into the shoes of all-conquering heroes. They wait for some intervening damp squibs. Who now remembers Napoleon the second?
 

---

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
Yes, Lineker said that, rather amusingly. The prime job at Man Utd is to be manager after Moyes.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Moyes it is. Well, Man Utd fans, wherever you are, fasten your seat-belts, it's gonna be a fucking bumpy ride.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Moyes it is. Well, Man Utd fans, wherever you are, fasten your seat-belts, it's gonna be a fucking bumpy ride.

---

It'll be smoother than post-Busby, because the side isn't ageing as then. From 1969 to 1981 United had Wilf McGuinness, Busby again, Frank O'Farrell, Tommy Docherty and Dave Sexton before Ron Atkinson was appointed manager in 1981.

On that basis you need to be the manager at M.U. after the manager * 4 after Moyes. Alternatively you could be a cool, balanced, capable manager in the first place.

So long as Everton don't appoint any ex-players as manager after Moyes replace (especially Mark Hughes) I won't complain. Moyes has done us well for ten years; a lesser man would have taken a lesser job five years ago.

When he gets to Old Trafford I reckon he'll sell Rooney (Chelsea? Nah, PSG) and bring Fellaini in. You read it here first!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I have a hunch that Baines might go to Old Trafford as well. Could be the beginning of some rather hard times for Everton.

---

Baines to Man U would make them a much better team, IMO. And to think they've won the Premier League at a trot ('at a canter' is such a cliche ) this season. Yikes...

I think you might be right about Everton struggling to cope in the post-Moyes world. There's talk of Michael Laudrup leaving Swansea, which I think could be a good move for Everton, but why would Laudrup make that move? He might fancy Swansea to really kick on from their success over the last couple of seasons.

My tip for Everton, as soon as Fergie's retirement was confirmed, was Roberto Martinez. If Wigan go down I don't think Martinez will be keen to stay, and I reckon a team of Everton's stature is the best he could hope for (despite what the Wigan chairman has been saying about Martinez waiting for a top job). I think Martinez has done wonders to keep a little* team like Wigan in the Premier League and you never hear a bad word about him. It'd be great to see him have a go at managing a pretty big club, I think.

*Little team in terms of their catchment area, I mean. Wigan is just a few miles from both Manchester and Liverpool, so to say they're competing with the big boys in terms of attracting fans is something of an understatement...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Not just that, Kevin: Wigan is a rugby town, so they're competing with the team that shares their stadium!
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
I don't watch much football these days yet often end up watching the FA Cup Final .
Just sitting there thinking here we go "nil nil" with the possibility of penalties then BANG in goes the 90th minute winner for Wigan . Only just said to the missis you don't see goals scored off corner kicks like you used to .
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
It was a quality header, wasn't it?! And congratulations to Wigan: They were the better team on the day and deserved winners. I reckon this will be the confidence boost they need to stay up now.
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Not just that, Kevin: Wigan is a rugby town, so they're competing with the team that shares their stadium!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I still think it's fundamentally wrong. Wales has its own association. They play as a separate nation in international competition. They should have their own league as well.

---

Fundamentally wrong because you are used to a certain system.

As a supporter of a club in a country that has tried more then once to do a national league, and failed, I would suggest that economic and physical, in Canada's case, reality are a bit more important then keeping a complete separation.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Yes! We finished 7th! This qualified us for play-offs against Twente, Heerenveen and Utrecht for the second eliminition round of the UEFA League. The first game will be on Thursday against Twente. That won't be easy.
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Congrats to your team, LeRoc! I'm listening to the English Premier League commentary on the radio - my team, Southampton, have just scored a very, very important equaliser against Sunderland.

Wigan are still favourites to go down, but my lot really could do with not losing today. I am proper nervous...
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Looks like Wigan are doomed. My reckoning is that if Sunderland lose their last game Wigan can stay up merely by taking four points from their last two games and improving their goal difference over Sunderland by 11, or winning both games, in which case Southampton, Fulham, Villa or Sunderland might go down (Villa play Wigan next week, so one or the other of them will remain behind Norwich, Newcastle and (spit) Stoke, making them safe).

In other news, Everton gave David Moyes a fine send-off, beating a pretty ordinary West Ham 2-0. Good on you David, you've done one heck of a job. Don't go being too successful and we'll be after beating you next year!
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
I think Southampton are all but safe - for Wigan to overtake us, they'd have to beat Arsenal and Aston Villa, which would keep Villa below Southampton unless there's a 11-goal swing in Villa's favour. Meaning that Stoke (spit) would have to beat Southampton by at least 12 goals. I think I can rest easy.

Shame that Wigan are indeed looking doomed, mind you.
 

---

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :
 
Yes!! Get-tin!! Norwich are finally safe!
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
And my team in Brazil, Santa Cruz, has become the champion of Pernambuco State today!! I guess it's a good day.
 

---

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
And Oldham have escaped relegation! Come on, you cloggers.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Palace beat Brighton to reserve the second place in the Championship Playoff Final.

And you guys had better be impressed with how quiet I'm being about a certain Chelsea midfielder who passed a rather significant goalscoring milestone this weekend.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Palace beat Brighton to reserve the second place in the Championship Playoff Final.

---

quote:

---

And you guys had better be impressed with how quiet I'm being about a certain Chelsea midfielder who passed a rather significant goalscoring milestone this weekend.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I can't help thinking the Championship Playoff Final is a playoff for the twentieith place in next year's Premier League.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Sorry to double post...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I can't help thinking the Championship Playoff Final is a playoff for the twentieith place in next year's Premier League.

---

I suspect you're right. The one possible scenario that may avoid this is if Watford win, and their Italian owners decide to spend some money and they do it in a sensible way. They could, just possibly, do what Southampton did this season.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
I doubt if either Watford or Brighton will be able to spend anywhere near what QPR did, and look what happend to them. But Swansea did all right. And they had less money behind them at promotion than QPR. Or than Leicester who didn't get promoted last year or the year before either.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
I still can't get my head round the bloke promising Costel Pantilimon goalkeeping duties against Wigan at Wembley after his great run in the cup, only to be ousted by Hart. Sad.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
It's really toe-curling viewing to watch these people who clearly don't have the first idea about football and who want to blame everyone but themselves when things go against them.

---

I've not seen the documentary but maybe it explains where Harry Redknapp got his 'Not my fault, guv' routine from.

And well done indeed to Chelsea. Hasn't Benitez done well this season, considering how things were at the club when he took over?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
How things were when he took over? Excuse me! I'm probably about to jump down your throat a bit, but let's put straight some of the revisionist bullshit that's been circulating for the last few weeks.

When he took over, we were a team in transition, third in the league, four points behind the leaders, and stuttering in Europe. Now, we're a team in transition, third in the league, sixteen points behind the leaders, and just about managing to scrape wins in Europe against teams that we should be battering.

Everything that we've achieved this season has been in spite of that man, not because of him. We are lucky to have such a strong and resilient group of players who can cope not only with the sheer weight of our fixture list, but with the unremitting shit that comes from the dugout. His refusal to show the slightest tactical flexibility, his penchant for rotating players (especially our two strikers) out of form, and his bizarre substitutions have hurt us, not helped us. It really pisses me off that his friends in the Press box are writing such adoring things about him because it's all complete bollocks. With our squad, we should never have been in such a dogfight for third/fourth place. The points dropped against Reading, Southampton, Liverpool, Spurs, and both fixtures against QPR were squarely his fault can all be laid at the door of his clueless 'management'. If he was even a half-decent manager we should have been pushing City for second. Di Matteo would certainly have had us up there. So no, I'm not having it that he deserves credit.

The sooner he pisses off out of our club the better. And good riddance. He was never wanted, he doesn't care about Chelsea, and personally I hope that he never works in football again. Goodness knows he taken enough of our money that he never needs to.
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Wow, easy tiger! But fair points. I had in mind the (AIUI) stranglehold that Terry (in particular), Lampard and Cole had on the club. From memory, there were several games during Di Matteo's tenure where those three players (and maybe others too) really didn't give their all for the cause, and weren't there also some less than fully supportive comments from them regarding Di Matteo in the media? Perhaps my dislike of Terry is clouding my judgement and my memory...
 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
David Beckham is retiring!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
I had in mind the (AIUI) stranglehold that Terry (in particular), Lampard and Cole had on the club. From memory, there were several games during Di Matteo's tenure where those three players (and maybe others too) really didn't give their all for the cause, and weren't there also some less than fully supportive comments from them regarding Di Matteo in the media? Perhaps my dislike of Terry is clouding my judgement and my memory...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Looks like their off the field behaviour has less class than their football, which is quite something.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
In other news, there is a chance that the mythical 39th game will have to be played between Chelsea and Arsenal to determine who gets third place and automatic qualification for the Champions' League next season. If Chelsea draw with Everton, and Arsenal beat Newcastle by one goal whilst scoring two more than Chelsea do, then both teams will be equal on points, have the same goal difference, and will have scored the same number of goals.

---

This would be awesome*. Maybe we should have post-season play-offs for some (or all?) of the top places in the Premier League, like the promotion play-offs in the lower divisions. They've been a fantastic success, haven't they?

*Apart from the effect on those friendlies taking place in the USA, sorry IF...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oh, I think that would be a terrible idea. Americanization of the English league in one fell swoop!

Actually, the second tier of English rugby has gone to a system a bit like this. They have a shortened regular season, then the league splits into three pools for playoffs. The bottom pool is a relegation playoff. The other two pools form the group stages of the promotion playoffs, with I think semifinals and a final coming from the winners of those two pools*. It really is unnecessarily complicated.


* I may have those details wrong - it's been ages since I last checked.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Looks like their off the field behaviour has less class than their football, which is quite something.

---

I dunno. There's a few of their centre halves would make quite classy wing forwards, if you get my drift.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Besides, every club in the premiership was aware that this sort of thing could happen when they set-up these money spinners.

---

This is the bottom line. Someone in the club majorly cocked up arranging this fixture when there was even a remote chance that the playoff would have to be played.

But we'll batter Everton Sunday, so it won't matter.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Spurs don't much like May 19th, eh Sir Kevin?
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Nope!
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
I'm watching Brazil x England through the corner of my eye. Not many fireworks yet.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
... aand Fred scores.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I watched about five minutes of the Brazil v England game before a combination of Real Life™ and boredom persuaded me to do other things. England seemed really woeful. How on earth did they score two goals?
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Imaginary Friend: England seemed really woeful. How on earth did they score two goals?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I watched about five minutes of the Brazil v England game before a combination of Real Life™ and boredom persuaded me to do other things. England seemed really woeful. How on earth did they score two goals?

---

Despite creating stacks of chances Brazil didn't look interested in the first half, when Joe Hart kept England in the Game. I've got doubts about Scolari.

In the second half Brazil tried a bit harder, their substitutions helped them, but a) Brazil, like the Mancs, are always likely to concede a goal, and hence b) England got lucky.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I think Brazil are in a tough position at the moment. Not having to qualify for the World Cup means that it's ages since they've played a competitive game and it's got to be hard to motivate yourself for meaningless (or money-spinning) friendlies, many of which have been against terrible opposition, including England.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
He's baaaaaaack!!!


 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
That shirt's an unusually pale blue. Are you sure he's not goine to the Etihad Stadium and there's been a cock-up?

On another note: Will he leave before Abramovich?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sioni: Odd question. I guess. :shrug:

On another note - has anyone been paying attention to the U21 European Championships which kicked off this week? England's first game was against Italy (the other strong team in their group) and they lost one-nil in decidedly uninspiring fashion.

I still find the appointment of Stuart 'Psycho' Pearce as their coach utterly baffling. People keep saying that the kids should be taught to get the ball on the floor and pass it. What does Pearce know about that?!
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Has anyone been paying attention to the U21 European Championships which kicked off this week? England's first game was against Italy (the other strong team in their group) and they lost one-nil in decidedly uninspiring fashion.

---

quote:

---

I still find the appointment of Stuart 'Psycho' Pearce as their coach utterly baffling. People keep saying that the kids should be taught to get the ball on the floor and pass it. What does Pearce know about that?!

---

quote:

---

Imaginary Friend: I might watch some of that, simply to revel in how good my Brazilian Chelsea boys are!

---

That would be David Luiz and Oscar? I promise to down a sip of beer every time one of them does something right (even though my favourite in the Premier League would probably be Swansea ).
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
And potentially Ramires and Piazon, although I guess they might not make the final squad.

Edited to add: And I guess you'll end up pretty drunk. But that's the point, right?!

[ 13. June 2013, 18:12: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Imaginary Friend: And potentially Ramires and Piazon, although I guess they might not make the final squad.

---

quote:

---

Imaginary Friend: Edited to add: And I guess you'll end up pretty drunk. But that's the point, right?!

---

You understand me all too well!

I intend to watch the game on Saturday in a simple neighbourhood bar here in Brazil, with lots of local people. It's going to be fun.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Well, I guess the first results are as expected. Brazil has their 3–0 win, I didn't find the game that spectacular though. Italy vs. Mexico was better, and in fact things got a bit scary for Italy at the end of the first half. Spain did what was expected: part of the first half was brilliant, the second half was utterly boring to the point of people booing from the stands.

Looking forward to Brazil–Mexico.

I watched Brazil vs. Japan on a small screen with bad image quality (but being in a neighbourhood bar more than made up for that), so I couldn't be sure if David Luiz or Oscar did something right. So I decided to take a sip of beer every minute or so, just to be sure. I hope that I've kept my promise?
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
My Uruguay-centric take on yesterday:

Spain's game was pretty well played (and, as mentioned, boring). At some point in the second half, they showed that Spain had controlled the ball for 77% of the match. You aren't going to win too many games when you only touch the ball for 23% of the game.

Uruguay's attack seemed pretty disorganized as well. They may have two of the best strikers in the game, but with no one feeding them accurate passes, they aren't going to do you much good. It's a shame that Forlan can't make it 90 minutes any more, because when he came out, the chances improved. They need to identify a new 90 minute set up man, and fast. (And while Suarez is my SOB, even I have to admit that he is a little quick to the turf- maybe he should try to get to the goal from time to time.)

All that said, if it weren't for that ricochet off of Lugano that gave Spain the first goal, they might have gotten a 1-1 tie. If they beat Tahiti and Nigeria and make it to the semis, you never know what could happen.

I only saw the last ten minutes or so of the Mexico match, which mostly consisted of replays of Balotelli's amazing strike (Suarez would have been on the turf). I'd love to see El Tri make it into the knockout round, but beating Japan is no guarantee, and they are probably going to need to get a point off of Brazil at this point. With a spot in the World Cup still in question, maybe they have bigger things on their mind.

[ 17. June 2013, 16:17: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Og, King of Bashan: And while Suarez is my SOB

---

quote:

---

Og, King of Bashan: "He may be a SOB, but he's our SOB."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Suarez is a dirty player, but I think most sports fans can admit that they will give a dirty player who happens to play for a team they like a little undeserved leeway.

---

Personally, I'm rapidly coming to hope he buggers off to Real Madrid and tanks as ingloriously as Michael Owen. Or else that Liverpool take him at his word and send him to Shakhtar Donetsk in exchange for that Armenian bloke. Ungrateful bugger.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Tahiti scored a goal against Nigeria yesterday! Cue a twitter meltdown from their official FA account which was as humorous as it was endearing.

I still think the match against Spain might be painful.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Imaginary Friend: Tahiti scored a goal against Nigeria yesterday!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
On the debit side, Newcastle ... defend better than Tahiti.

---

Ah, but Joe Kinnear will sort that out for them.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
And with a win against Nigeria, I feel very confident about Uruguay's chances to advance to the elimination round. Although a tie would have resulted in an interesting last day of group play, with Uruguay needing to beat Tahiti by at least 5, and needing Spain to beat Nigeria by more than one. Much better to be able to rest a few guys to prepare for the winner of Italy / Brazil.

Which, now that we have come to it, has to be the most interesting game of the tournament. Is Brazil a real threat at this point? Is Neymar going to be able to produce against a great European team (Barca had better hope so!)? Best part is, the game is on a Saturday, so I will be able to watch.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Og, King of Bashan: Which, now that we have come to it, has to be the most interesting game of the tournament. Is Brazil a real threat at this point? Is Neymar going to be able to produce against a great European team (Barca had better hope so!)? Best part is, the game is on a Saturday, so I will be able to watch.

---

Half an hour to go. Heading for the bar...
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Well, that was a game. I found the first half far too rough and dirty, referee Irmatov seemed really week.

The second half was a delight to watch though. Both teams were going to the limit, just to avoid picking Spain in the semi-finals!

I was quite critical of Brazil during the friendlies of the last months, but they seem to be shaping up. Now I'm really hoping for a final Brazil vs. Spain!

(PS During the Confederations Cup, Brazilian television has Ronaldo as one of the commentators for the first time. He does that very well, a pleasure to listen to.)
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
So, Brazil vs Spain it is. Both teams suffered a bit in the semi-finals. Brazil seems motivated, but Spains remains a favourite of course. Let's see!


PS A serious Dutch newspaper wrote today that the final will take place in the capital of Brazil, Rio de Janeiro...
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
It should be a good game. And in some ways, for me it's the dream final because the involvement of Oscar, Luiz, Mata, Torres, and possibly Azpilicueta make it interesting. Plus, they've been the best two teams in the competition so they deserve to be there.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Wow, a Brazilian goal after 2 minutes. Fireworks are going off like crazy here! I don't think that this is what Spain expected...
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Wow, this was unexpected. Of course, there was always the chance of Brazil winning; in a final anything can happen. But they completely played Spain off the field

I'd say: bring on the World Cup!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Brazil were really fired up for the match; little guys like Oscar and Neymar got stuck in and they harried Spain in a very unBrazilian way.

It wasn't all one way though: Spain had a shot cleared all-but off the line, missed a penalty and Julio Cesar made a couple of great saves. Then again, if all that happens and you have a man sent off it's just not your day.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yeah, Brazil were awesome in their intensity and passion. And yet they managed to keep their composure and channel that in a constructive way. They also got a bit of luck in that there was a distinct suspicion of handball for the first goal, and a decent shout for offside for the second. If the ref had ruled those two goals out and the Geezer hadn't made that clearance, it could have been a very different game.

However, for the neutral, it was an thoroughly enjoyable match to watch, and deep-down I'm quite glad that someone was finally able to stop the Spanish juggernaut.

And I do love it when Oscar starts kicking people!
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Time of possession: Spain: 52% Brazil: 48%. It's no wonder that Spain made a few critical mistakes: they were out of their comfort zone. If you have the talent to press the midfield passing game like Brazil did yesterday, you have a chance.

That said, very few teams have that kind of talent. We may now know the general strategy to take on tiki-taka, but it takes some pretty good players (and a bit of luck) to pull off that strategy. The Spanish machine may have lost some luster, but they are probably still good enough to beat most of the teams they will face, and I would still list them as co-favorites with Brazil to win it all next year.

As for the 3rd place game, Cavani finally had a game to remember, and in extra time had several good chances to win it. I know that players very rarely win games on their own, but it is hard to say that Buffon doesn't deserve most of the credit for winning that game. He was a monster towards the end, when the rest of his team appeared to be content to sit back and let Uruguay take shots at will.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Imaginary Friend: They also got a bit of luck in that there was a distinct suspicion of handball for the first goal, and a decent shout for offside for the second.

---

I watched the game on a very small screen, so I didn't see any of that
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
On the first goal, replays clearly showed that the attacker's arm hit the ball. It was incidental, and I don't think it gave anyone a better chance at the ball. For that reason, I might call it a good discretionary no-call. Would it have been called if the game was being played in Madrid?
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Anyone following Women's Euro 2013 ?
I watched 2 or 3 matches for want of something better to do in the hot weather and found myself quite enjoying it .

It takes a bit of getting used to as we normally associate the playing of football with males . I am however impressed with the level of skill, and with the commitment of players who clearly go all out to win group games even though their team are already through .

Also the lack of falling over in the penalty area, and customary haranguing the referee is something of a breath of fresh air.

BTW, for anyone not following , England are already out -- so nothing new there . I shall nevertheless be watching the knock-out stages with keen interest.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
The Netherlands have been eliminated by ... Iceland?
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Was reminded today why I support a team in this game.

Pouring rainstorm. Buckets.....all of us soaked.

5 minutes to go.

Down 1-0.

Havn't won at home in over a year.

Never beaten this team at home ever.


Hometown boy scores to tie it up at 86 minutes.

4 minutes of extra time.

Winning goal scored with 30 seconds to go.

Pouring rain stops just as game ends.


Supporting a bad team that won't be any good until a whole year from now.

But...today...for a few hours...it was awesome.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Conversely, DC United, currently the worst team in the MLS (and boy, that's saying something!) went up early on in their game against the New England Revolution tonight. I was there, with the fans, singing my lungs out and feeling quite good about things at half time.

Second half, we play like yesterday's house salad: limp, lifeless, absent of color, and thoroughly predictable. We end up conceding two goals and losing 2-1. Horrible, horrible performance.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Youngest Son is at church this morning i) running the sound/PA and ii) praying Gareth Bale stays at Spurs.

I expect the sound could be a little 'off' this morning.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Women's Euro 2013 final seemed quite thrilling even though the outcome may have been predictable.

Interesting to note, by lip-reading the player who had Norway's second penalty saved by heroic German goalie, that FFS looks very much the same in Norwegian as it does in English.
 

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Posted by DouglasTheOtter (# 17681) on :
 
Hello, everyone.

I've taken the rash step of starting a Ship of Fools fantasy league. Here's the URL and the league reference number. If there's already a league, I'll pipe down and shut up...

fantasy.premierleague.com
374312-156203
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
We have had a league in previous years, with varying degrees or participation. But nobody had started one for this season yet, so thanks for taking the time to do it.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Conversely, DC United, currently the worst team in the MLS ..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Silva may end up being a great player but until he learns to find space, and track opposing midfielders coming back, he's going to cause you more issues then he causes others.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
By most accounts, the BEST supporters in MLS, bar none.

---

Without doubt.
The team may be shit, but the fans know how to have a great time. That's what it's about really, isn't it?!
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Youngest Son is at church this morning i) running the sound/PA and ii) praying Gareth Bale stays at Spurs.

I expect the sound could be a little 'off' this morning.

---

• The team that was set to be promoted was purchased by owners of a formerly powerful team in Veracruz, who liquidated the assets and applied the license to play in LigaMX to their own team.
• The team that was set to be relegated, Queretaro, bought another LigaMX team from Chiapas, and merged the teams into one team, saving themselves from relegation.
• The team from San Luis Potosi moved south to take up the space formerly held by the team that moved to Queretaro.

At least that is what I have been able to glean from poorly translated Wikipedia articles. So you see, as bad as the transfer market gets, it could be worse.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I'm just looking forward to getting back to school again when my pre-teens will be playing football and I can name the sides! I hope my Spurs do not lose Mr. Bale and make successful signings as well.
 

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Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
I don't know quite where else to post this, but it is one of the funniest things I have seen in a long while. What Might Happen if a Football Coach Coached Soccer?
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My wife made me watch it yesterday. It was unbelievable!
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Pretty good viral advertizing from NBC, who just paid a lot of money to put premier league games on over-the-air TV in the United States. As a fan with rabbit ears, I'm all for it.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Me too! I am looking forward to more Spurs matches, especially if the new players in the side are on board! I might even wear my THFC shirt to the nearest Irish pub if I know City are not playing - one of the owners is a rabid fan and one of the barmen still plays football himself although he is also over 40...
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Yay, my team is first!!

I propose that we end the competition now!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Newport County are definitely back! After beating Accrington Stanley 4-1 at the weekend, they went to Brighton yesterday in the League Cup and won 3-1.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Anyone watch the Community Shield today?
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
It's two days until the Premiership kicks off.

What are your predictions for the season? They can be for the winner, relegated teams, outstanding players, first managerial sacking, humorous episodes, or anything else you can think of.

I'm going to predict that Chelsea will win the league. This isn't just blind club loyalty - I really think that the combination of our new signings, our experienced core of players, and the best manager in the league give us a really good chance of doing it.

I'm also going to predict that Spurs will finish above Arsenal. I really think that Wenger has lost the plot, and that Spurs have quietly done some decent business this summer. If they can hang on to Bale (and I think that they will) then they'll finish fourth this season.

Finally, it's a shoo-in that Mark Hughes will be useless at Stoke. He'll try to get their neanderthal players to change their style and will completely and utterly fail to do so. Shawcross, Walters et. al simply don't know another way. ;-)
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Man City
Chelsea
Arsenal
Spurs
Man U


 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
I.F. - I agree with all your predictions! I think Chelsea will just beat Man City to the title, Spurs are looking good, and Stoke could really struggle. I'm a Southampton fan and hereby make a wildly optimistic prediction of a top 8 finish for the Saints.

Seriously though, I do think 8th place is feasible for Southampton. The top six will surely be Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal (in that order, if you insist) but then who's next? Everton - nah, Martinez is awful at organising a defence. Swansea - maybe, and I think that'd be a great story. West Brom - again, maybe. Norwich - just possibly; they've bought well. Saints - in with a genuine shout, I reckon.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
More interested in who's going to crawl out of the Conference.

Luton finally I think.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
I.F. - I agree with all your predictions! I think Chelsea will just beat Man City to the title, Spurs are looking good, and Stoke could really struggle. I'm a Southampton fan and hereby make a wildly optimistic prediction of a top 8 finish for the Saints.

Seriously though, I do think 8th place is feasible for Southampton. The top six will surely be Chelsea, Man City, Spurs, Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal (in that order, if you insist) but then who's next? Everton - nah, Martinez is awful at organising a defence. Swansea - maybe, and I think that'd be a great story. West Brom - again, maybe. Norwich - just possibly; they've bought well. Saints - in with a genuine shout, I reckon.

---

You have a touching faith in Liverpool and Arsenal there!

I doubt Everton's players will allow Martinez to do much damage to the defence - our main problem there is that the phrase "Tim Howard will be disappointed about that" has been too common over the last three years. While Martinez has brought in his backroom team and some players he knows, last year's first choice back four are all still there and they can play football at least as well as any back four Wigan or Swansea have had. The newcomers add to the skills available overall so I reckon we'll see some poor results early on as a few changes are rung (Alcaraz for Distin, who is getting on) before we get back on track for the Premiership.

I can't see a top-four finish for us though, unless Moyes and the Mancs go tits-up, which will be a huge boost to everyone, and likely cause chaotic results all over the league.

btw, I agree about Stoke. Hughes is dreadful and I'd like to see Villa take a reality check in the Championship, although Palace and Hull are more likely for the drop. Cardiff look the only promoted side with a hope so I reckon they will stay up in a last day drama and Newport County to remain in the Sky Bet League 2 (Division 4 in real money).
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Yeah, maybe I'm placing too much importance on the manager's role in organising the defence. There is indeed plenty of experience (and skill) in the Everton defence so perhaps they'll be fine. As for my 'touching faith' ( ) in Arsenal and Liverpool, who do you see finishing ahead of them? I'll give you Everton, I'm sure there's some chance of that, but who else?
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Arsenal... Tee hee!
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
The game I was able to watch for free on over-the-air television was the United-Swansea match. And it's early in the season, you can't win the title in the first month, yadda yadda yadda, but anyone who is going into this season waiting giddily for a United nosedive appears to be in early trouble.

I'll pick City, Chelsea, United, and Spurs for top four, with a little distance between three and four, but I still think it is going to take a hell of a season from Spurs to beat Arsenal out for that last spot. Arsenal may not be a particularly fashionable pick, but don't think I'm taking their 17 straight top 4 finishes lightly.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I don't think it's fair to make anyone nail down their predictions until the transfer window closes. For example, Spurs with Bale are a different beast from Spurs without him. Ditto Chelsea or United with Rooney.

However, the one thing that I can be fairly sure about is that there will be plenty of unhappy campers at the Emirates.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
So is Bale finally going?

If so, I think that Spurs played it well. I typically don't advise spending money before you have the actual cash in your account, but in this case, I think that spending early allowed them to avoid the stink of desperation and pip some other "bigger" clubs for top targets. Early in the summer, it was conceivable that they were trying to keep Bale. Now that they are finally starting to act like they might sell him, they have shored up enough talent to be able to convince a few more pieces to come on over. I still think Madrid was trying to get Bale by creating a toxic situation for Spurs. The fact that they managed to avoid the look of a club in downward spiral, and actually look like a club on the way up even with the loss of Bale, is an impressive feat.
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
So is Bale finally going?

If so, I think that Spurs played it well. I typically don't advise spending money before you have the actual cash in your account, but in this case, I think that spending early allowed them to avoid the stink of desperation and pip some other "bigger" clubs for top targets.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
(if he's got £40m, why the hell does he want to blow it on Suárez?)

---

Yeah, why the hell would you want a guy on your team who scored 30 goals in all competitions last season?

It will be interesting to see how often Willian gets off the bench at Chelsea. I rarely pull for United in a match, but tomorrow will be on of those rare times.

I'm still expecting the Bale deal to go through, and hoping that Spurs can sign Lamela quickly. Soldado has been impressive so far, but given his reputation as a finisher, it would be nice to have someone else out there who can get the ball in front of the net. (Not to take anything away from Townsend's efforts over the last week.)
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
(if he's got £40m, why the hell does he want to blow it on Suárez?)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
(if he's got £40m, why the hell does he want to blow it on Suárez?)

---

Because Suárez bites people?
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Perhaps a 0-0 tie was all too predictable. No one wanted to lose that match, and from the sound of it, the squads were still getting used to playing together. Chelsea may really need Rooney, if Mourinho looks at his current striker options and decides that the best bet is to start six midfielders.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I think that was a conservative tactical choice, rather than one forced on him by a lack of other options. In that sense, today's game doesn't add much evidence one way or the other as to whether Chelsea need another striker.

Personally though, I wish he'd back Romelu and give him time to develop. That kid could be amazing given the opportunity.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I'm glad my Spurs beat Swansea, even if it was only a penalty by Soldat!

It's lovely to be 3rd in the standings and ahead of the hated Man U! Looks like the new coach isn't doing his job very well.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Correction, we're in a draw for second.


 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I think that was a conservative tactical choice, rather than one forced on him by a lack of other options. In that sense, today's game doesn't add much evidence one way or the other as to whether Chelsea need another striker.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
(if he's got £40m, why the hell does he want to blow it on Suárez?)

---

Yeah, why the hell would you want a guy on your team who scored 30 goals in all competitions last season?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I listened to BBC's Saturday football phone in, and there were a load of Evertonians (one of them sounding close to tears) saying how disrespectful Moyes has been in his pursuit of Felaini and Baines. Any thoughts on that Sioni?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Admittedly I'm an outsider to the club, but I always thought you over-achieved under him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Martinez plays a pretty different style from Moyes, right? My impression is that Wigan have always tried to get the ball down and pass it while Everton were happy to be a bit more direct. Could that transition be the issue?

---

It's not that simple. Everton under Moyes played pretty fast and wide (cf, the Baines/Pienaar combination and the growing importance of Seamus Coleman on the right). They certainly played quicker and more physically than any recent Wigan side. Very few pretty triangles, although we're well equipped to play that way, and if you can do it at pace and with power it's hard to defend against.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So what do you think Martinez is doing differently?
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
From the little I've seen (highlights, nothing in the flesh), he is trying to keep the defence solid while introducing a more "fluid" game elsewhere.

It's till too early to tell.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs may win! In with a chance.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Lamela and Chiriches (apparently) signed, and perhaps Eriksen on the way. Aside from that little Willian misstep, I'd call it a successful last fortnight of the transfer market for Spurs.

For the conspiracy theory minded, how about this one. Some people suggest that Levy will hold out on Bale until the last possible moment to prevent Real from selling any of its surplus midfielders to Arsenal before the deadline. Could it be that Chelsea was actually thinking that way when it snatched Willian, and possibly delayed the Bale departure? (Probably not, but at the end of the longest transfer season ever (at least until January,) it's fun to speculate.)
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Some people suggest that Levy will hold out on Bale until the last possible moment to prevent Real from selling any of its surplus midfielders to Arsenal before the deadline.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Some people suggest that Levy will hold out on Bale until the last possible moment to prevent Real from selling any of its surplus midfielders to Arsenal before the deadline.

---

well, if he was, it nearly worked.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I don't know why Sir Kevin is upset.

---

I'm sure Sir Kevin will correct me if I'm wrong, but given that the timing of his post was shortly after Spurs lost the North London Derby...

But no - I think selling Bale for that price at this time was excellent business by Levy. He knew he had Real over a barrel and could therefore buy early in the window before adrenaline was high and prices (even more) inflated. I reckon they've got a good squad, although it might take the first quarter of the season for them to gel.

The big unknowns for me this year are Liverpool. Will they be able to continue their impressive start? Time will tell. But after three rounds of matches, I'm more convinced than ever that this is City's title to lose, and that Moyes is out of his depth.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
That would be correct.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Praying that all goes well for my side on Saturday and that it is televised here. We need to return to the top four. SIxth is humiliating!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Praying that all goes well for my side on Saturday and that it is televised here. We need to return to the top four. SIxth is humiliating! At least we're ahead of the hated Man U!
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
After a nasty reality check at the hands of Costa Rica, the USA is officially in the World Cup finals with a win over Mexico. Even if they are our regional rivals, I would like to see the Mexicans put up a fight in the next two games and make it to Brazil themselves. It's good to see other teams from CONCACAF getting better, as that will only help the USA in the future. But given a year's preparation, I'd much prefer Mexico's chances of making it out of the group stages to Panama's. (Sorry to our Kiwi friends, whoever lands in fourth and plays New Zealand - it's down to Mexico, Panama, or Honduras,- is getting my support come November.)
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
A victory seems to have put us in a draw for first place - now if we could only beat Arsenal!
 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I hope my Reds can continue their perfect season with a victory over Swansea.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oops.


 

---

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
After 3 clean sheets, they let one get away.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Anyone else watch the Manchester derby? Crisis at Old Traffod! Muddled Moyes misses mark! Rio awful, Fellaini bested by Toure, Rooney the only player with any desire!

I love Schadenfreude!
 

---

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
I watched it funny. I'm so going to give my boss some stick, him being a Man U fan and all that.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I thought we did well selling Rodwell and Lescott for the money we got, but on yesterday's showing £27.5m is a brilliant piece of work. Keeping Baines and selling Fellaini must be the best deal of the summer.

I'm also pleased to say that the club motto, which has contributed to Evertonians knowing at least one Latin phrase, is to return to the club crest!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs in a draw for first! I'm glad United choked.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
We're coming for you on Saturday, Sir Kevin!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
1-1 against Chelsea put Spurs in 1st place!


 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Spurs' wins so far this season have come against Palace, Swansea, Norwich and Cardiff. They've taken one point from the two decent teams they've played (Chelsea and Arsenal). Their league position is a function of their cushty fixtures, not their actual ability.
 

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Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
The car crash at Old Trafford doesn't surprise me. I think Man Utd had a poor defence last year, but they were driven to the post by SAF's will-power, plus van Persie. Now SAF has gone, and you have some mediocre players thrashing around. It's called PTSD!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Post Talismanic Scotsman Disorder?
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Their league position is a function of their cushty fixtures, not their actual ability.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Post Talismanic Scotsman Disorder?

---

Pass The Soddin' Dewar's!
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
My team just lost 5–0 against Twente
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Consolations!
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Spurs' wins so far this season have come against Palace, Swansea, Norwich and Cardiff. They've taken one point from the two decent teams they've played (Chelsea and Arsenal). Their league position is a function of their cushy fixtures, not their actual ability.

---

Given that Arsenal, Liverpool, City, and United have all lost to teams that wouldn't make you decent team list, I'll take it.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
As my youngest son put it, David Moyes has spent ten years trying to put Everton ahead of Manchester United, and now he's succeeded.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Yay!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Premiership club listens to fans.

OK, this isn't unheard of but it isn't run of the mill either.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Now all the fans need are affordable tickets, cheap away travel, sensible stewarding, and some decent performances on the pitch.

Does this not seem a bit like window dressing, or am I being too harsh?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
It's a start. The ground is still Goodison Park, not the Chang Beer Arena.

On the cheap away travel front Stoke City & Hull have announced free travel for at least some games. Swansea and Cardiff have the cheapest matchday tickets at little more than half of Aresenal's, IIRC and adult ticket prices at Goodison Park start at £32. Heck, it's £15 minimum at Newport County for adults.

We're likely to get 20 genuine top-flight teams before we get decent stewarding. Some of them are pretty clueless.
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
The mighty Southampton look like they're heading for third in the Premier League! Five minutes to another clean sheet as well - just two goals conceded in seven games if it stays at 2-0 against Swansea. Pinch me, I must be dreaming...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'd say Southampton look pretty good for it too. Pochatino (is that how you spell his name) seems to be making his mark.

However, North London really was full of shit, shit, and more shit this evening. Cracking results!
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Yes, unbelievable that West Ham walloped Spurs so heavily. The Prem looks really open this season, it's great.

Saints' next game after the international break - Man Utd away. Bring it on!
 

---

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :
 
As a West Ham fan I'm naturally happy. I was surprised how tame Spurs looked, especially Defoe.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Well done England

Under Hodgson they are looking nicely motivated .
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
The UEFA draw should be interesting. I'd love to see Iceland get through, just for the novelty.

Fans here in the U.S. are a little torn about the results of last night's final night of qualification. Mexico lost in Costa Rica (it's not an easy place for anyone to play), but still managed to grab the playoff spot from Panama after the United States scored two injury time goals in Panama City to turn a 1-2 deficit into a 3-2 win. So by winning, we helped our biggest rival into the playoff. I think Panama is improving, and I would have loved to see them get a shot at the World Cup, but overall, I think you play to win, and monkeying around to screw your rival is going to come back to haunt you. I said it earlier and I'll reaffirm now, I'm pulling for Mexico over New Zealand, although I think a lot of U.S. fans are not. And I hope that Honduras and Costa Rica show some improvement in Brazil. There are people who dream of somehow getting the US out of CONCACAF and into a stronger confederation. I for one think our best hope is to see Costa Rica, Honduras, Panama, and El Salvador improve, thereby providing better competition for the U.S.A. and Mexico.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Oh, and good on Bosnia for making it- I think most neutral folks can be happy to see that happen.
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 
Why Bosnia? What's wrong with Greece? And I can't work out how France and Spain end up in the same qualifying group as each other whilst another group has Bosnia and Greece as the top two seeds.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
Why Bosnia? What's wrong with Greece? And I can't work out how France and Spain end up in the same qualifying group as each other whilst another group has Bosnia and Greece as the top two seeds.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
Why Bosnia? What's wrong with Greece? And I can't work out how France and Spain end up in the same qualifying group as each other whilst another group has Bosnia and Greece as the top two seeds.

---

Really, nothing wrong with Greece. It's just nice to see something good happen to people who have recently suffered through a civil war and genocide. Just like I would be happy to see Iraq qualify.

Bosnia may not have the name that France does, but they have some quality players, and I think they will be a stern challenge in Brazil.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Here is a World Cup draw simulator which you can burn some time with. Obviously they had to add some teams that are not in yet, but it still shows just how nasty some of these groups might be.

Assuming Uruguay beat Jordan in the qualification round (which I think is a pretty safe assumption, but you never know), they get seeded. That means one group gets a seeded team and Italy, and one group gets a seeded team and the Netherlands. You England fans are safe from having to possibly face Germany and the Netherlands in the group stage. I'll have to worry about it for the next month.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
We beat PSV 1–0!!!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I wish we had gotten 5 points, but my Spurs are back in a draw for fourth with City! I shall proudly wear my old 'spurs shirt backstage tomorrow!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
PSV? Your side? Who are they and what league are they in? I am happy they got a good result!
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

quote:

---

Sir Kevin: PSV? Your side? Who are they and what league are they in? I am happy they got a good result!

---

I am a fan of FC Groningen, a team from my birth province in the Netherlands. They play in the Eredivisie, the highest Dutch league. And yes, in this league they won against PSV today!

Usually, at the end of the season we end up somewhere between 5th and 8th place. Not bad for a team from a smaller city, with a limited budget. This also means that sometimes we qualify for the play-offs for a European ticket.

When I'm in the Netherlands (which doesn't happen often), I usually try to go to the stadium together with my brother who has a season ticket. My team normally does rather well at home, but they suck in away games

This isn't the first time they won against PSV, I saw them win 3–2 in the stadium once. (Let's just say that the beer after that game was very anymated )

Famous ex-players of FC Groningen are Arjen Robben (who started at this club) and Luis Suarez. I saw both of them play 'live' in the stadium often.

[ 20. October 2013, 20:26: Message edited by: LeRoc ]
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
And Toronto FC ends a 7th consecutive season of woe with a home game this Saturday against Montreal.

The most interesting things we have to deal with now are

• Who is the EPL playing striker TFC is going to get after the WC next season?
• Who is Italian Serie A playing striker/attacking midfielder we are going to get after the WC?
• Are we going to be forced to share our stadium with the CFL (Canadian Football League) team and thus suffer from a badly cut up field, a stadium rebuild and lines on the pitch?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Oh, and the first two, betting is Jermaine Defoe and Pirlo.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Before you laugh, the guy running TFC's parent company was the guy who spent 3 years getting Beckham to sign for LA. He wants 2 big name stars.

---

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
If Rooney wasn't signed until 2015, he'd be after him.

---

Then he's delusional.

But who am I to talk? Having lived in DC for three years I picked up a love-hate relationship with DC United. I went to games and have suffered through a season of total and utter woe this year. (Apart from winning the Open Cup. I actually overheard a DCU employee talking about "doing a Wigan"!!) But at least our transfer targets are a bit more realistic: A decent (unknown) striker from somewhere in South America, and a couple of defenders who can turn quicker than the QE2 would be sufficient.

(Wayne Rooney. Ha ha haaa!)
 

---

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
Chelsea 2 Arsenal )

But I am tired of the chess-like football which every side plays these days.

4 minutes of passing the ball along the back row to a central player just in front, back to the backs, forward and across the field twice and finally a poke through the centre inevitably cleared.

And back to the same old process again.

Boring.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I think the actual scoreline was Ö - 2. LÖL
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Back in 4th or better where we belong!

Defoe is one of my favourite players and Soldato seems to be making a career of making winning penalty kicks.
 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Can anyone explain to me the latest spat between Sepp Blatter and Cristiano Ronaldo?

I mean, there's riots in the host country for next year's world cup, there's the whole Qatar world cup conundrum, plus the corruption scandal that comes as a side issue with the Qatar f**k-up - and all the President of FIFA can find to be doing is stirring up a hornet's nest over how often an histrionic Iberian footballer gets his hair styled.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm not known for my sense of fairness towards Sepp Blatter (I think he's a complete idiot!) but in this case, I think you've worded things a bit hyperbolically. As I understand it, he was at the Oxford Union, and was taking questions from the students. One of them asks him whether he things Ronaldo or Messi is a better player, and he tries to make a joke in reply. Obviously it was a poor joke and a bad idea, but he didn't spontaneously come out with the comments.

But as to why he made the joke in the first place, the charitable explanation would be that he's a man of his generation: He doesn't quite get that anything he says in a public way will be youtubed into the public consciousness completely devoid of any context. If that's the case, then this was just a bad joke that looked worse in the cold light of day. On the other hand, this is far from the first time that Blatter has been caught out in this kind of way, and one could reasonably say that maybe he should have learned his lesson by now.

But for me, if I was going to worry about his stewardship of world football (and I do) then it would more likely be about stories like this one, or this one. But maybe my priorities are wrong too.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Upon further scrutiny of the tables, I notice my Spurs are in what looks like a three-way draw for 2nd.... Perhaps if we could compile more wins, we'd become a solid 2nd place.

I hope Arsenal chokes every time we win. Thank God United suck this year!
 

---

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
Imaginary Friend

Agree with you about Sepp Blatter's ability to put his foot in his mouth.. but then he is Swiss.

The reason why Roger Federer stands out is because he is so UN-Swiss.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I had a nice chat at lunchtime with one of my best friends at school, a fellow teacher who is a rabid "goonie" or Gunners supporter. He thinks we will never retain first place if ever we get it again but are in with a chance against Newcastle this weekend. We also met up with a girl teacher whose boyfriend is from Liverpool and she had no kind words for either Spurs or Gunners!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sir Kevin, you and your Gooner mate are going to be very quiet on Monday morning, I would expect.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Sir Kevin, you and your Gooner mate are going to be very quiet on Monday morning, I would expect.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shamwari:
The top teams either lost or drew.

---

Oi! The mighty Southampton dished out a 4-1 thrashing. And they don't play the 'don't commit to any tackle until the ball gets into their third' way - pressing high up the pitch is the Pochettino approach and it's bringing great results so far.

Liverpool are another (currently) top team who also won, for that matter. I'm a casual Liverpool fan as well as supporting the Saints, so it was a grand weekend of football for me!
 

---

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :
 
I'm not a Soton fan, but they look fabulous, and I am admiring of them very much. It would be wonderful if they won the Premiership, but I suppose unlikely, because of money, size of squad, blah blah blah.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Ironically Southampton play just the style that plays into the hands of the teams shamwari decries! If you have genuine footballers at the back, a goalkeeper who can do more than hit-and-hope and real pace up front, I reckon you can counter Southampton.
 

---

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
If you have genuine footballers at the back, a goalkeeper who can do more than hit-and-hope and real pace up front, I reckon you can counter Southampton.

---

Which team might fit the bill, then, do you think?

*Whistles 'Oh When The Saints'*
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
shamwari, in the situation you describe, I can't tell if you're criticizing the attacking team, the defending team, or both. So if you were the manager of Arsenal or some other "pretty pretty" team, what would you have them do instead?
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Apparently Jermaine Defoe's Mom was feted around Toronto the other day.

Yes, its come to that.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Jordan-0 Uruguay-5 in the first leg in Amman. Stranger things have happened (or have they?), but I think that one is all but settled.

With action just starting in the Azteca, I think that Mexico had better win tonight if they want to make the finals. Getting a win next week after flying halfway around the world is going to be a tall order, especially against a New Zealand team that I suspect will be sitting back in both matches.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Mexico must have felt the same way. Mexico-5 New Zealand-1. In one game, Mexico almost scored more goals than it did in the Hex tournament.

IF New Zealand manages to win 4-0 on Tuesday, it gets in on away goals. There is a reason that if is in all caps. I'd give them a better shot than Jordan has of winning 5-0 in Montevideo, but that's not saying much.

Here's hoping the last UEFA qualifiers provide a bit more excitement.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Are you two related or did you just choose the same names?

Interesting to hear about Jermaine's mum. I wonder - why all the publicity?
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Are you two related or did you just choose the same names?

---

Seeing as my registration date was later, it was probably my fault; I didn't lurk much before getting a ship name, so I had no idea there was another Og out there. Mine I took from Psalm 136, which we got to chant on choir tour a few years before I logged in.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Just when I thought England had recaptured former glory under new managment , disaster has struck in the form of a home defeat by Chile.

Nevermind , it was only a friendly and probably just a blip . I'm sure we'll fare better against the Germans
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Living in a nation infatuated with Zlatan, and having a soft spot for Iceland, I confess I didn't watch England this week*. But hearing the melt-down on 5Live after, it seems we played pretty badly. It's kinda funny really, because last month after we qualified, it seemed that we were basically nailed-on to win the whole tournament! Now we'll be lucky to get out of the group, if most reports are to be believed. Crazy.

Meanwhile, Iceland had a man (somewhat unfairly) sent off in their home game with Croatia, but still managed to hang on to a very creditable 0-0 draw. That means that a win or a score draw in Zagreb next week will see them through. Which would be amazing, when you consider there are only about 300,000 people in Iceland.

In Lisbon, that horrible little man Ronaldo scored the only goal of the game to put Portugal 1-0 up against Sweden. Honestly, I don't think the Swedes have much chance of turning that one round (especially since they didn't score away) but you never know.

And France! So pleasing! Finally, I couldn't even tell you the score in the game that seemed to drum up no interest whatsoever. Either Greece or Romania will qualify for the finals, and I'm not sure either really deserve to be there.


* Frankly, I find it hard to care about the soap opera that our national team appears to be at the best of times, largely because of the constant, unending, incessant hype that the media seem insistent on providing.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
Just when I thought England had recaptured former glory under new managment , disaster has struck in the form of a home defeat by Chile.

Nevermind , it was only a friendly and probably just a blip . I'm sure we'll fare better against the Germans

---

Hardly a disaster. England haven't beaten Chile for ages and lost to them last time out too, also 2-0 at Wembley. We underestimated Chile who were better throughout. Apart from Lallana no one impressed and Rooney looked lost on his own up front.

eta: Quite how matches at Wembley during November prepare us for a World Cup to be held in Brazil in July/August is a mystery to me.

[ 16. November 2013, 21:10: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Can I just say that, for all of Cristiano Ronaldo's arrogant wankery, he is an exceptionally good footballer. Did anyone see his hattrick against Sweden last night? I watched the game in a bar in Stockholm, and needless to say, the locals weren't happy. But my word, can that man move into space at will!
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

 

---

Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :
 
Have to say Sir Kevin, Spurs did not play as bad as the score suggested against Man City, although the score could have reached double figures.

Hope Spurs can beat Manure at the weekend.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Are you two related or did you just choose the same names?

Interesting to hear about Jermaine's mum. I wonder - why all the publicity?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
... I bet Honduras or Costa Rica could scare the hell out of most UEFA teams if playing at home...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
You gotta beat the best to be the best, but if CONCACAF and Asia stay in the same pot in the future, the USA had better play its way into the seeded pot if it wants to keep making progress on the World Cup stage.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
...What's wrong with taking balls out of a felt bag, FA Cup style?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I haven't yet heard a decent argument in favour of FIFA's system of geographical allocation. What's wrong with taking balls out of a felt bag, FA Cup style?

---

Let me try. I think it is desirable to establish the relative standings of teams in different parts of the world, so it would follow that they should be mixed up as much as possible in serious competition and the World Cup is the only such competition.
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Hmm, we caught Spain, Chile and Australia, with the first match against Spain, just like the last World Cup ended. Better get it over with in the beginning then.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Spain-Chile-Holland-Australia is a bear, but should produce some interesting matches. I was fine with Germany and Ghana, but Portugal makes it a little harder to see the USA making it out of the group stages.

Uruguay-Italy-Costa Rica-England should be interesting. Uruguay and Italy played to a shootout in the Confederations Cup, but that was a tired and Balotelli-less Italy squad. That should be another dandy. (I was halfway expecting to see England meet Uruguay in the knockout round, as narrow defeat at the hands of a dodgy Suarez play would be classic England, right up there with Argentina in 86, Argentina in 98, and Portugal in 06.)

As for Switzerland-Ecuador-France-Honduras, I'll just leave it at .
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
For the Netherlands, a realistic scenario is second place in the group behind Spain, and then in the Round of 16 against Brazil. Gulp.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
My schoolboys were quite happy with Brazil v. Croatia when I told them about the draw today!
 

---

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

As for Switzerland-Ecuador-France-Honduras, I'll just leave it at .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
...man, I hate Liverpool.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
Most Dutch commentators say that we shouldn't underestimate Chile, especially after their match against England.

---

You also shouldn't over-estimate England, especially after their match against Chile.
 

---

Posted by Tukai (# 12960) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Yeesh, a nasty draw for England, I'd say.

---

But spare a thought for Australia, who will certainly be playing only for pride in a very tough group.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sorry, but given the cricket, the only thoughts I have to spare for Australia are not mentionable in polite company!
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 
Man C 6-3 Arsenal sounds like a cracker. Anybody see it? City have been scoring prodigiously at home all season - 50 from 12 matches. And that brings Arsenal almost within striking range of the chasing pack for the first time in a few weeks. All the other top clubs who played yester won. Liverpool have the chance to get within two points if they win at Spurs. It's looking good at half time. HT stats:

Goals: 0-2
Shots: 5-12
On target: 0-6
Corners: 1-5

They've just started the 2nd half and Liverpool hit the bar.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
AVB sacked - good riddance. How did he get to be so incompetent? Early on, Spurs were in a draw for first! Now we've completely lost our way.



 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Well, at least we're still ahead of Man U, shadows of their former selves that they are!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
AVB sacked - good riddance. How did he get to be so incompetent? Early on, Spurs were in a draw for first! Now we've completely lost our way.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I'm not enough of a technician to be able to defend or attack this article, but here is one view that the Liverpool loss was more tactical idiocy on the part of AVB and Spurs than attacking brilliance from Liverpool. His point: you don't play the back line up with two slow center backs and not expect to get torched by Luis Suarez.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, the impatience of football clubs today is beyond belief. A man with the highest win ratio of recent managers as well. Short termism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:


IMO, it may well be time for the legend that is Steven Gerrard to start fading into the background. He's still capable of brilliance, for sure, but he slows Liverpool down too much. Their front 5 on Sunday - Allen, Coutinho, Sterling, Henderson and Suarez - are all clever, mobile players, and they just sliced the (admittedly weakened) Spurs defence apart. They had several other good chances; it could have finished 8-2 or something incredible like that.

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• The financial high stakes. Miss out on the Champions League and that's a hefty financial loss. Get relegated from the Premiership and you'll quite likely end up in administration. Very few teams can afford to "fail" these days. It actually says something about the Glazers that they haven't chopped Moyes yet. It will be interesting to see what happens if we get beyond the halfway point in the season and Man Utd are still well outside the top 4.
• The increasingly competitive nature of the race for the 4 Champion League spots. A few years ago, it would be Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea for certain and then probably Liverpool. Now, you have Man City and Spurs also thinking that they belong at the feeding trough. And it is not unreasonable to think that teams like Southampton might also in time aspire to such levels, given their financial backing, or that Newcastle or Everton could maintain a decent run and grab fourth place. Again, this means that the consequences of "failure" are high. A few years ago, "failure" would have meant that you ended up in 4th spot, needing to negotiate extra qualifying rounds. Now, "failure" will mean missing out on any European football at all.
• An overall "short-termism" approach. Would Ferguson or Wenger really be given enough time these days to build a club from the grassroots up? Connected with this is the increasing ability of players to move around. Why plan to build a team over a few years, if your key players are likely to get snaffled by a richer team in 12 months' time? And now that there are so many Russian oligarchs, Kuwaiti sheikhs etc pouring money into clubs across Europe, there is even less chance of a club being able to count on keeping key players for more than 12 months. The chances of Suarez staying at Liverpool beyond this season are slim. The chances of Arsenal keeping Ramsey AND Wilshire are also slim. If no-one can plan more than 12 months any more, a manager has to be able to be an immediate success.

quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
I wonder if Rodgers is just saying nice things about Gerrard (the latter being a club legend and all) while wondering how he'll gradually ease Gerrard out of the first team without causing a furore.

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Newcastle or Everton could maintain a decent run and grab fourth place...

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Newcastle or Everton could maintain a decent run and grab fourth place...

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Newcastle is a good ale, but Spurs will be back under new management!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:

I think Everton (for all their lack of financial muscle) will do better than Spurs this season. For a start, they have a settled side and a manager who has a clear vision and has got his players buying into it.

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
I'm not sure that there will be much of a furore if, by the time Gerrard is fit again, the team has continued to perform as they did on Sunday. Let's face it, Carragher was just as much a legend for the Kop and he was gently eased out without a squeak.

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
In fact, I suspect that Roy Hodgson would prefer Gerrard to be a bench warmer for the rest of the season. That way, he would be fresh and able to cope more with the demands of the group stages at the World Cup.

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
I'm almost certain Gerrard will be in the England team for the World Cup but should he be? I'm not sure. Other candidates for centre midfield - Carrick, Wilshere, Barkley, Henderson, Lallana. If we go for 4-2-3-1, we need three centre-ish midfielders and two wide players; I wonder if pretty much any three of those five will end up being a better option for the central three than any two plus Gerrard. Sure, Barkley and Henderson are pretty raw, but they've both started the season really well from what I've seen and read.

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Ha ha, I'd forgotten about Milner! I think he's so depressingly average and in my (though red and white tinted spectacles!) view, Lallana can do everything Milner can but also has a spark of creativity.

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Perhaps Ashley Cole could do the decent thing and retire from international football. Or just get injured in the last match of the season. Nothing too serious - just enough to keep him out of the World Cup Squad.

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We're going to need some experienced players out there, and Cole is both experienced and still one of the better players in the world in his position.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Not to mention Cole being one of the few experienced players who still seems to take some pride in wearing the English shirt. Lampard too. Actually, while we're on the subject of the Premiership's highest scoring midfielder (when you have some time, compare his stats to Gerrard because you might be surprised) a large part of the reason he's been below his usual standard this year is that Chelsea insist on playing the highly fashionable 4-2-3-1. Frank's naturally a box-to-box player, and there isn't really a role for that in this formation. Therefore he's shoe-horned into one of the two "holding" positions and it just doesn't suit his game. Personally, I'd rather see Chelsea (and England, for that matter*) go a bit gung-ho with a 4-3-3 and put Lamps at the point of the midfield. Then his natural game of distribution, arriving late in the box, and generally pulling the strings can be most effective.

But I'm a one-eyed Blueboy, so I would say that, wouldn't I?!


* "Ladies and gentlemen. England will be playing Four-Four-Fucking Two."
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Eighth!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
What do you think of your new manager, Sir Kevin?
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
So far, so good. I wish we had today's match on television here as the last one was. I think changing the formation to 4-4-2 was a good idea and will pay off. The new players do need to work a bit harder, though! I think Sherwood can get us back into the top four again, but it will take time.
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
I'm off to see Southampton vs West Brom in a couple of weeks' time! Two of my friends (who are married to each other) have their birthdays around this time of year so I've taken to buying them tickets to a football match as a gift. The last two games we've gone to see have been Southampton 1 Chelsea 5 (oops) in the FA Cup and then Southampton 0 Bristol City 1, which was Saints' only loss all through 2011.

Oh, and as I type this, Everton have just taken the lead against Southampton in the Premier League game this afternoon. Cracking goal from Seamus Coleman. Booooooo.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
At least on half of Liverpool is happy tonight, eh Sioni?

Up the Chels!
 

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Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on :
 
South Coast Kevin, so it's you jinxing Southampton!

Please don't go to any more Saints games this season. They were doing so well at the start.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
The blue half is happy indeed. It is the exact mid-point of the season and fourth place with 37 points from 19 games isn't so bad, especially after the gloomy predictions heard at the start of the season.

Best of all, the football is better to watch than it has been for years! It's better than any since the 1980's side which had Peter Reid, Paul Bracewell, Trevor Steven and Kevin Sheedy across the middle. Our current side covers the ground more quickly, but that's a Premiership characteristic.
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 

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Originally posted by Starbug:
South Coast Kevin, so it's you jinxing Southampton!

Please don't go to any more Saints games this season. They were doing so well at the start.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The blue half is happy indeed. It is the exact mid-point of the season and fourth place with 37 points from 19 games isn't so bad, especially after the gloomy predictions heard at the start of the season.

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