Thread: Motorsport 2013 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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Motorsport, 2013. Have fun, and drive safe. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 13. February 2013, 04:34: Message buggered about with by: Ariston ]
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
AKA 2013 Motorsports thread. I watch Speed TV a lot in the US and there are some FIA-sanctioned races on here. I am going to try to get away with putting a poster of Miss Geico on the back wall of my wife's study. NB: Miss Geico is an Unlimited Hydroplane powered by a gas turbine, i.e. helicopter powerplant. It is so bloody wide it is mounted on a trailer at a 45-degree angle!
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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OOOps! I had a good time at school today: a lot of the boys in my class were gearheads. Looking forward to The Isle of Man TT. One of our Shipmates who seems to be no longer posting lives there and was planning to open a B&B the last time we spoke electronically...
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
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I'm disappointed that news outlets haven't stated that Marussia fires Glock as their headline for his departure.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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You do have to wonder what Marussia are hoping to achieve by continually cruising around at the back like they are currently. Dropping an experienced (if not hugely successful) driver like Glock is hardly going to lead to any improvement, not when all the top young drivers are already signed up to the big teams.
Taking the Kamikaze's $10 million and hoping he'll crash enough times to get them on TV might be the best they can hope for, unless Bruno Senna has enough money behind him to win the seat.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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I spoke to an exhibitor at the wholesale high-end jewelry tradeshow I am working this month: he could not tell me how much out-of-pocket he was on the USGP as he got ticket(s) for free, COURTESY of his good friend, NASCAR team owner Rick Hendricks!
I guess I need to get off my arse, save my money, buy two admissions for the F1 race and tickets on a jetliner plus borrow my brother-in-law's car: my sister's four-passenger family lives in Cedar Park which is a suburb of Austin.
God willing, I will be far enough along on my Na No Wri Mo novel to get an advance or just be drowning in work as my wife gets a permanent teaching position...
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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:bump:
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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Ooooo.
This might make Mercedes a bit more likable.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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So, Lewis Hamilton has bought a 20 million pound jet, wants to build a museum for his trophies and helmets, and thinks he can be as great as Ayrton Senna. Stay classy, Lewis.
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
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Well, when he's won another 2 championships I will begin to consider his greatness.
Not long to go - who's going to be quick and who's going to win this weekend?
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Not long to go - who's going to be quick and who's going to win this weekend?
Kimi.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Well, when he's won another 2 championships I will begin to consider his greatness.
In fairness, Lewis was talking about a kind of greatness that isn't about results. Personality. Aura. That ability to turn heads just by walking into a room.
If anything, that's even more pretentious.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Well, when he's won another 2 championships I will begin to consider his greatness.
In fairness, Lewis was talking about a kind of greatness that isn't about results. Personality. Aura. That ability to turn heads just by walking into a room.
If anything, that's even more pretentious.
Although TBH, being the most charismatic F1 driver is not a big demand.
As Mr Clingford said, a couple more championships, and the ability to stay in contention to the end even when he is not in a winning car (like he didn't manage last season) and he will be starting to be a great driver.
he needs a whole lot more before he becomes "one of the greats". Not dismissing his ability - I do think he has potential to be one of the greats - but he also has the potential to be one of the also-rans, who never quite achieved what he should have. F1 has plenty of those.
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
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So, Vettel for title number 4 by the looks of things.
I'm interested to see how Lewis (whereever he is on the arrogance scale) performs in the Merc.
Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on
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I think this is where Lewis is on the arrogance scale right now.
Although McLaren doesn't look smashing, either.
Posted by Coffee Cup (# 13506) on
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Ples for F1 related help:
I've relatively recently arrived in the USA. How can I watch the grand prix here? I have some sort of cable package which I don't really understand - I've been preoccupied with stuff like driving/cycling on the right side of the road...
Thanks!
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Coffee Cup:
Ples for F1 related help:
I've relatively recently arrived in the USA. How can I watch the grand prix here?
Easy. Fly to Long Beach in April. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on
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I will assume that RuthW knows what a terrible joke she has just made.
On my TV, NBC Sports Network is carrying the Aussie GP. This is a new channel and is not included in most standard US cable packages.
I am still working on how I will watch the race, since I am too cheap to pay for the network, and the website I used to watch races last season has been taken down. I'll let you know again on this thread when I figure it out.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by Coffee Cup:
Ples for F1 related help:
I've relatively recently arrived in the USA. How can I watch the grand prix here?
Easy. Fly to Long Beach in April.
Can you fix the link, it goes to a website about a domestic junior formula race?
quote:
Originally posted by Coffee Cup:
Ples for F1 related help:
I've relatively recently arrived in the USA. How can I watch the grand prix here? I have some sort of cable package which I don't really understand - I've been preoccupied with stuff like driving/cycling on the right side of the road...
Thanks!
I read an article on ESPNF1 last week that said some stuff about NBC taking over the coverage in the USA this year, it said some would be on the main network and most on cable. This week's opening race won't be the easiest for you, Bernie has pushed the start time back to 1700 which is between 0000 and 0300 depending on which part of the USA you're in. A normal 1400 start would have been perfect for a late night rather than in the middle of the night.
If you can't get it live (or don't want to put up with NBC dumbing it down for NASCAR fans) then your only option might be to find a dubious download in the days after the race.
This is what I'll be doing, along with writing to the advertisers of the local TV coverage to tell them why, out of protest at their inclusion of Alan Jones in the commentary team. He may have won the World Championship a third of a century ago, but he's spent the time in between doing his very best to destroy the chances of any younger Aussies making it on an international level. As well as telling Mark Webber's sponsors that he'd go nowhere and to abandon him, he's also been steadily destroying the international careers of other Australian drivers including Will Power and Ryan Briscoe who never made it past high junior formula level (F3000 in Europe and IndyCar in the USA) thanks to his sandbagging.
I think this year's championship is a four horse race between Vettel, Alonso, Raikkönen and Button, with Perez and Webber the most likely race winners out of the rest.
McLaren may have looked slow in the non-competitive sessions so far, but even if that holds true when the real action starts later this afternoon there's no reason to believe they won't be able to pour enough money into the car to get it working in a few races' time. Having problems with understeer is not such a bad thing, with wet weather on the way that could well turn into a good compromise setup since there's nothing worse than an oversteering car in the wet.
[ 16. March 2013, 03:26: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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Slow clap for Hamilton - first driver to bin it in qualifying!
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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Looks like the Q1 grid might be the final grid, my friend at the circuit says the crowds are streaming out of the gates to queue for trams.
Race control has just rescheduled Q2 start for 6:30pm local time, but that could well be the last delay point before everybody packs up. The official sunset time is 7:37 but it looks like it's getting very dark already, especially for open wheel race cars with no night-spec lighting.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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Qualifying parts 2 and 3 will be at 1100 local time tomorrow morning. That's 0100 UTC for Brits, a nicely timed 2100 on Saturday night for eastern Americans and 1800 for the Pacific coast.
Probably not fantastic if your coverage is on anything but a dedicated channel like Sky run for the UK.
Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on
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Well, I caved and got the NBC Sports thing. You can't fight the man, I guess.
The coverage was surprisingly good; they have David Hobbs (who is one of my favorite guys in the world) and Steve Machette, both of whom are holdovers from SpeedTV's coverage, which was rarely dumbed-down despite being a NASCAR-oriented channel. Leigh Diffey, despite his background in road-racing, is decidedly not an upgrade over Bob Varsha.
I'm rather disappointed in Williams, as they are looking to be the weakest of the midfield teams by a large margin. Impressed, though, by Jean-Eric Vergne, as I often was last year. If the guy could learn to qualify, he'd score some significant points.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
Slow clap for Hamilton - first driver to bin it in qualifying!
Actually Giedo van der Garde was first but don't let the facts get in the way of your prejudice.
Posted by Coffee Cup (# 13506) on
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Thanks to tgc and Jon for the advice. I seem to have the required channel and it looks like there is a repeat at a civilised hour tomorrow as well as the live coverage tonight. The end of the six nations, and the end of a shawl I'm making, distracted me from the coverage this afternoon, so I've still not seen the bit of qualifying which took place already.
(And if RuthW knows how I could make the trip to Long Beach for free I'd be happy to watch "southern California's most unique special event" ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)
Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on
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Well, Indycar is a good show, and the Long Beach Grand Prix is one of its crown-jewel events, but it is far from F1 (or for that matter, far even from what it was in its heyday).
Now, then, Red Bull locks out the front row at the ol' Albert Park. Vettel certainly put in a flyer. Surprising that Rosberg could manage only sixth, after looking so great in Q2. Something major will have to happen later today for someone other than Red Bull to win. Very disappointing for Lotus, as well.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
Slow clap for Hamilton - first driver to bin it in qualifying!
Actually Giedo van der Garde was first but don't let the facts get in the way of your prejudice.
Actually, you're wrong. Hamilton ran off the track at turn 3 on his first lap before hitting the wall on his second, but don't let facts get in the way of your prejudice.
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on
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The quali was fun. New drivers in new cars on a soaking circuit. Good way to start the season.
And I am liking the addition of Suzi Perry to the team. Very nice, and she also knows her stuff, without being as anal about it as some of the others.
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Not long to go - who's going to be quick and who's going to win this weekend?
Kimi.
What did I say, hey? The Lotus car looked fast and wasn't too hard on the tyres. If it doesn't rain in Malaysia next weekend Kimi has a good chance, though it would be nice to see him do better in the qualifying.
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
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Well picked. Any partiality!?
Yes, with only a week to the next Lotus seem promising. Lewis wasn't too bad either.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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Z and I enjoyed the race, except for the part where Lewis didn't win! It was nice to see somebody who was not Seb win for a change. David Hobbes said likely Seb had 15 more years ahead of him and I doubted that. My wife agrees with David.
It was v. disappointing to see Jenson just barely in the points - are the McLarens becoming jalopies unable to get podium finishes for their drivers?
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Well picked. Any partiality!?
None whatsoever.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
Well, Indycar is a good show, and the Long Beach Grand Prix is one of its crown-jewel events, but it is far from F1 (or for that matter, far even from what it was in its heyday).
I know, I just couldn't resist.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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I miss walking a few blocks from my father-in-law's house and bribing a rentacop $10 to stand at the hairpin curve during tthe Formula One days: I believe the last time I did this was ca. 1977. When we were newlyweds, we were also only a few blocks away, but by then it may have been Indycars. I shared an elevator with Clay Regazoni, but he would not talk to me. Bloody Swiss! I did shake hands with Sir Stirling Moss years later: much more satisfying!
I think Z may have shown many F1 drivers to their seats at a popular pizza parlor where she was the hostess and/or cashier back in the day.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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I got sent a rather fun link this week - an admittedly NASCAR-biased compilation of great race finishes from the 2012 season.
My top three laughs from the video would have to be...
1. The ecstasy and agony of the Japanese commentators at 12:30 in, that's a performance even the BBC's F1 cheerleaders would be proud of.
2. The WSBK rider who threw it away celebrating his win a lap early.
3. The moronic ARCA guys at Daytona having a pileup after the finish line.
My top three great race finishes from it would be...
1. The BTCC guys, all they'd need to do for it to be perfect would be to bring back the Super Tourers and the packed grids of the 90's!
2. Piquet's pass.
3. The last clip at Watkins Glen.
I do wonder what the result of the WSBK race at Silverstone was, mainly because the result would be different depending on whether the rider or the bike is classified across the finish line?
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
It was v. disappointing to see Jenson just barely in the points - are the McLarens becoming jalopies unable to get podium finishes for their drivers?
It won't be long before they're up there, the only question is of whether the new car just didn't suit the circuit (or the cold conditions) last week or whether they got outpaced in off-season development. After qualifying this afternoon it looks like the latter but we'll see how they go in the race tomorrow. They should be up to speed for the first races in Europe, there being enough time between now and then for the traditional McLaren approach of throwing lots of money at it* and seeing what happens. No team has a fatter budget than McLaren (at least until Vodafone walks away at the end of this year) so they usually tend to perform better on the mid-season updates than most.
If the Man City approach fails, they could always go down the less honourable path instead. No team will be leaving 600 pages of genuine data lying around for them this time that McLaren need it (RBR might have the sense of humour to feed them bogus data though!) but they can at least expand their ECU sabotage program which got off to such a good start last weekend
* which is why the McLaren MP4-12C GT3 car is performing so poorly in championships around the world that use the FIA GT3 regulations - all parts are homologated and mid-season updates to the cars are banned.
[ 23. March 2013, 15:34: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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NASCAR has to be a leading contender for The Stupidest Thing In Sport.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
NASCAR has to be a leading contender for The Stupidest Thing In Sport.
The farcical inability to deal with a few showers last weekend puts F1 right up there too.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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Wow.
Seb Vettel is an entitled little bitch. It's one thing to want to race hard against your team mate, but then to come onto the radio and whine to the team that the other guy is giving it back is absolutely unbelievable. He's a spoiled flat-track bully.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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I agree. Seb was lucky he was racing against a better man like Webber and not somebody like Hamilton or Maldonado who would have gladly put him in the wall or the gravel.
Did he not remember what happened in Turkey a few years back?
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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You mean a doormat like Webber who's happy to obey the team, sit back, and let Seb win?
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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Controversial opinion from a former McLaren driver (no, not that former McLaren driver!). What do you think?
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Wow.
Seb Vettel is an entitled little bitch. It's one thing to want to race hard against your team mate, but then to come onto the radio and whine to the team that the other guy is giving it back is absolutely unbelievable. He's a spoiled flat-track bully.
He's also the quickest spoilt flat-track bully. Show me a winner who was a nice guy. Maybe Mark Webber is one, which might explain why his talent and skill has never been translated into titles.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Show me a winner who was a nice guy.
Damon Hill. Jensen Button. Nikki Lauda. Mika Hakkinen. Jackie Stewart. Possibly even Nigel Mansel. All world champions. All people I'd love to have a beer with.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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Are you serious? Lauda could never have comeback in weeks from an accident that nearly killed him had he been a nice guy! Jackie Stewart was all but hounded out of F1 for being the driver's shop steward when they were being killed almost every other race.
Nicer than others perhaps, but I doubt those you mention were sweetness and light, during their careers at any rate. Motor racing isn't the only sport like that: Curtley Ambrose, a fearsome West Indian quick bowler hardly ever gave an interview and was very terse as a player. He's mellowed quite a bit since.
If Vettel wins the driver's title by less than seven points there will be a lot of hat / humble pie eating to be done.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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Well, admittedly, I'm too young to remember Lauda or Stewart racing so perhaps my opinion is skewed by the mellowing effect of oldish age.
As for Vettel winning by less that seven points? I really doubt it - the championship is his to lose again this year.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
As for Vettel winning by less that seven points? I really doubt it - the championship is his to lose again this year.
I think that's the key to this whole episode. Vettel wants to win and simply won't tolerate anything that could prevent that, especially if he can do something about it. He might therefore have taken the view that if a car behind goes out of control it's very unlikely to do you any harm. If the car is ahead of you however, and it suddenly spews oil, you could well be off the track, off the podium and out of the points.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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I don't think so. Seb's a renowned box-ticker. He wants the Pole, the win, the fastest lap, and he wants the right to stick his index finger in the air to show everyone that he's Number One. He wasn't having any high-level thoughts about Mark getting an oil leak. The neanderthal part of his brain* wouldn't let him lose if he thought anything could be done about it. That could be overtaking Mark on the track, getting Horner to tell Mark to let him through, or something else. But it's clear he thought that the win was HIS by right, consequences be damned.
* Which, for the record, we all have: I'm not trying to single him out.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
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(with apologies to Mr Rolf Harris)
Two little boys had two little toys
Red Bulls with lots of speed
Happily they ran, down in Sepang
And Mark was safe in the lead
So he turned the engine down, but started to frown
When seb took the lead instead.
Ignored by their boss, Mark then got cross
As Seb zoomed away and said
Did you think I would leave you winning
When you know you're the number 2
That's the reason why I'm grinning
I can go twice as fast as you.
If I have to, I'll just say "sorry"
When the press and fans make a noise
All because Mr Horner treats us
Like we're just two little boys
[ 27. March 2013, 11:25: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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That made my morning.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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Wet Kipper, I'm pleased to say that iF and I agree. That was wonderful!
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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I do not like thee, Seb, I don't!
Praise your win? I surely won't!
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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No doubt Lewis Hamilton is pleased about the controversy because we're not talking about his attempt to return to Mclaren.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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This worries me. I find myself agreeing with Bernie Ecclestone.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
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quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
No doubt Lewis Hamilton is pleased about the controversy because we're not talking about his attempt to return to Mclaren.
That was the funniest thing I have seen in F1 for a long time. In fact, I can't recall ever laughing out loud while watching a race before
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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When Schumy stuck it into the Wall of Champions back in '99 was another laugh-out-loud moment.
(I've also laughed at some of the dense things that various commentators have said over the years, but I guess that doesn't count!)
But back on the point about team orders. I think Bernie is trying to have it both ways saying that team orders are okay in one situation but not in another. Where do you define the cutoff? Actually, my opinion is that this comes back to a fundamental dichotomy in F1 that it seems is somewhat unresolved. Is it an individual sport or a team sport? If it is primarily the former then obviously team orders go against that. If it is the latter then orders are the most natural thing. Someone needs to decide which is the dominant part of F1's character.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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Personally, I'm a fan of team orders because it is a team sport. The teams work like buggary to put the car on the track and the drivers often acknowledge them so to ignore team orders goes against that. Mind you, it's not the engineers who give the orders.
It has been suggested that had Ron Dennis ever instructed Senna to remain behind Prost, Senna would have come into the pit, kneed Mr Dennis in the gentleman's region, gone back onto track and overtaken Prost anyway.
There was a classic F1 moment on Sunday where Ferrari instructed Alonso to stay on track with a damaged wing because they knew they would be making a tyre stop a few laps later. It doesn't matter which team does that I will always admire the bravery of the decision.
[ 30. March 2013, 22:18: Message edited by: The Rogue ]
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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Point (points) taken!
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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Is that some kind of record by Jenson?
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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I suppose it's a decent way of keeping a set of tyres minimally worn while placing ahead of the guys who just set sector times before aborting the lap at the pit entry.
I think it's farcical. A better way to do the third segment would be to give each driver a one lap run in reverse 1th-1st sequence instead of an open session. All teams could have a set of super soft tyres allocated only for use in that session with the silly rule about starting the race on used rubber scrapped.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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Sebastian did apologise to the fans who wanted to see him put more effort in but he justified it by saying that the team was taking the longer view of getting the best race result. And who can blame them?
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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A bit different to the rules ruining F1 qualifying, there was an interesting issue in the FIA International V8 Supercars Championship at Pukekohe (outside Auckland, NZ) today.
The current rules for the V8 series specify that a jumped start is worth only a 10 second penalty, to be served once the pit work is done at the first stop of the race. That became a bit awkward today as two drivers were hit with that penalty in one of the 2013 series' new sprint races with no pit stops for the first time. The time gets added to their finishing position if there are no stops, but one of those drivers actually made up enough places to lead the race to the chequered flag!
The V8 series doesn't have high-speed pit lanes like F1 does (could be fun with the tyre degradation situation at Shanghai tomorrow) so I agree with the drivers who said a drive-through penalty would be way too harsh, which included a bunch of others who weren't penalised. There were others who complained about having to follow around sucking hot air from cars that were ten seconds down on the scoreboard but ahead on the road, but the chief offender Garth Tander is a serial whinger known for complaining about anything when he can't get the job done on the track.
A suitable alternative for these minor penalties during the sprint races - tell them to drop five places perhaps?
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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This is the knock-on effect of the cost-saving regulations that F1 has put in place in the last few years. Teams are forced to conserve tires, turn their engines down, protect the gearbox, and generally run at 80% for most of the race. That's not what the sport is about, IMO. Let's go racing!
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
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I enjoyed watching that race from beginning to end. Well done Alonso (and Hamilton for keeping the Vettel at bay). But poor old Webber.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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And a good drive by Raikkonen as well. Those last few laps were exciting, but the commentators on the coverage I had* were absolutely brilliant. As Vettel came out of the pits there was absolutely no way that he was going to catch up to Hamilton because the gap was just too large. Then, as it became clear how much quicker his tires were, and as the gap closed to just two seconds at the start of the final lap, it was definite that Hamilton was a sitting duck. Of course, in those final few corners as Vettel's rear tires were giving up the ghost and he was oversteering his way to the line it was labeled the Most Exciting Grandstand Finish Ever!!! Hilarious.
* I'm not sure if it was BBC, or Setanta, or someone else
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
A better way to do the third segment would be to give each driver a one lap run in reverse...
In the US, back in the nineties, they used to invert the qualifying order. It worked well in Trans Am where I was a volunteer marshall.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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In the British Touring Cars (we're going to Donington on Sunday) they have a free run qualifying session from which the fastest car is on pole for the first race. Usually most cars are on track for most of the time. The start positions for the second race are the finishing order of the first and again for the third race except that they choose a random number between six and ten and flip the top however-many-are-chosen. There is also extra weight in the best cars which depends on championship position in the first race and race positions in the second and third.
I don't know if this is better or not. I expect the ideal will vary between the different formulas of motor sport.
A few years ago the whole qualifying for F1 was a single flying lap for each car in turn which I found extremely tedious except for one race when it started to rain in the middle of the session and the later cars put wet tyres on. Michael Schumacher on wets was on his out-lap and overtook the car on its flying lap on dry tyres.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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The extra-weight business sounds like British saloon-car racing. I remember Jason Plato (now of 5th Gear) often had to carry extra weight due to his success.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
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I was saying elsewhere today that an idea for qualifying would be to have everyone run for 3 sessions, one with each type of tyre and another of your choice. Final session will be your tyres with which you will start the race* but everyone is allowed whatevr fuel you like in qualifying and can refuel before the race.
Your fastest time in each session gets added together and the person with the lowest total gets pole.
means more cars on track, more action, and you still don't know who is on pole until the end of the session.
thoughts ?
* obviously rain would negate the tyre side of things.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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Sounds viable, except for the fuel thing - perhaps that should be left alone.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Sounds viable, except for the fuel thing - perhaps that should be left alone.
His idea does leave the fuel rules alone. The current rule is that fuel loads in qualifying are free, and not related to the fuel load for the race which is also free in the absence of pit stop refuelling.
The current rule for the runners in the third segment of the qualifying session starting on the used tyres was brought about as a replacement for the old fuel load rule when refuelling was banned.
I reckon there needs to be more racing, and fewer rules around tyres. How about...
1. Split the field into two groups, the fastest driver from each team during the practice sessions in pool A and the others in pool B.
2. Draw positions within each group at random for a pair of short 20 minute + 1 lap qualifying races with rolling starts.
3. The faster pool A drivers racing fill the odd-numbered slots in order of qualifying race position, and pool B get the even-numbered slots.
4. Scrap all tyre rules other than a maximum number of dry tyres for the Saturday and Sunday, and allow the teams to pick from the full range of four compounds instead of being dictated to by Pirelli's desire to become the star of the show.
5. Make pit stops more time-consuming to put the racing back on the track. This could be done by homologating a spec wheel and a spec wheel nut to be used by all teams, and limiting teams to one wheel gun and four crew working on each pit stop.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
For the record, I'm ignoring the Bahrain Grand Prix this weekend. I don't think Formula 1 should be there in the current political climate, and Bernie needs to know that sometimes his commercial interests have be to be secondary to human decency.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Z and I are watching it: she enjoys it as much as I do. We don't care about the politics but wonder if this is the best-time of year to have it in a hell-hole like Bahrain in the heat. If and when Z gets a permanent job, we plan to see the USGP for the first time since I bribed a rent-a-cop $10 to let me stand at the hairpin curve at Long Beach in 1976. Two years later, we were three blocks away but could only hear it as we were newlyweds and had no extra money! At least we will have no peripheral expenses when we do get to the USGP except for refueling my brother-in-law's car as the family live nearby!
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
:
I'm wondering what's up with the Lotus's. They're really struggling in the qualifying but as soon as it gets to the actual race and the car has a full tank of petrol they're quick. Both Räikkönen and Grosjean did really well but I wonder how much better they could be if they could start from the front of the grid.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
They're kind to their tires, so their long run pace is good. Plus Kimi really knows how to consistently get the best out of a car Grosjean isn't bad either.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
WilliamsF1 has signed a new sponsor - Astana, the capital city of Kazakhstan.
I imagine that at next weekend's race in Spain, Martin Brundle will be looking forward to meeting their new team mascot on his grid walk.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Thanks for the middle part of that pic - now I have to bleach my eyeballs!
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
Saturday had the last endurance race before Le Mans with the 6 Hours of Spa-Francorchamps. Audi laid down an ominous marker for next month's big one with a 1-2-3 podium, all three a lap ahead of the nearest Toyota in fourth. The top three Audi diesel-hybrid cars did 168 laps of Spa for 1176.6 kilometres in total, which (without driver changes) would have had them in a points finish at last year's Belgian Grand Prix.
Interesting to note a good selection of former F1 drivers in the mix, some of note and some who didn't achieve much in F1. The most astounding inclusion in that list is Kamui Kobayashi, who is actually turning out to be a decent endurance driver despite his single-seat form in F1. Both World Endurance Championship races so far this year (Silverstone and Spa) have had him finishing second in the GT Endurance class driving an Aston Martin V8 Vantage GT2, behind Giancarlo Fisichella in a Ferrari F458 GT each time
[ 06. May 2013, 00:05: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
Did anyone watch the Spanish GP this weekend? I think one has to wonder what the tire manufacturer is doing when they bring their two hardest compounds and many cars still need to take four pit stops. Farcical.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
It was! A good result for the Spaniard in his Ferrari, though.
Posted by Jon in the Nati (# 15849) on
:
quote:
Interesting to note a good selection of former F1 drivers in the mix, some of note and some who didn't achieve much in F1.
They're just carrying on in the tradition of F1 rejects going on to do good things in sportscar racing. Just because someone gets in bad equipment in F1 (e.g. Anthony Davidson with Super Aguri) doesn't mean that they won't do good in other forms of racing where they might have a more even shot. In the runup to the 6 Hrs at Silverstone, John Hindhaugh referred to F1 as "the WEC's unofficial feeder series."
The real news, to me, is that many very good young drivers never have their F1 shot and are going straight into sportscar and touring car racing. Getting an F1 drive is such a crapshoot these days (what with all the quasi-pay-drivers about), so this makes a lot of sense. I sure thought Romain Grosjean had missed his F1 shot when he raced the whole season in the 2010 GT1 World Championship. Happily, I was wrong.
[ 14. May 2013, 20:28: Message edited by: Jon in the Nati ]
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
McLaren switching to Honda power for 2015 in F1 is a little bit of a surprise. You would think that having been abandoned by Honda and then watching them come and go from F1 twice in the period they've had a consistent supply of Merc power would have been good motivation for McLaren to stay put, and I thought that Mercedes-Benz was a part owner of the team.
I wonder if it's actually about keeping the sponsorship money rolling in? Vodafone is jumping ship at the end of this year and there's yet to be an announcement of who their main sponsor is likely to be for 2014. Becoming something like Honda Racing McLaren could fill that gap nicely, but it could also bring the detrimental prospect of having to put a Japanese driver in one seat.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Good story about the competition between Nicki Lauda and the late James Hunt on Radio4 a few hours ago. It was presented by Vciki, the pretty one from Fifth Gear and can be heard now on Listen Again.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Am I the only one planning to watch 12 or 15 or the 24 hours of Le Mans? I hope Aston Martin beat Corvette. I'd also like to see Audi lose.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
Interesting tactic from Mercedes GP that seems to have worked:
MGP: "we've been really, really naughty"
FIA: "yes you have"
MGP: "we deserve to be punished"
FIA: "yes you do"
MGP: "how about hitting us with this feather"
FIA: "okay"
Losing the Young Driver Test is not a punishment at all, they got to do their testing with their senior drivers instead! A ban from the final full test before next season started would have been more appropriate than that.
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Am I the only one planning to watch 12 or 15 or the 24 hours of Le Mans? I hope Aston Martin beat Corvette. I'd also like to see Audi lose.
Unfortunately there's no broadcast here. I'm going to make do with ignoring all motorsport news sites for a week and downloading pirate videos when they become available.
I think Audi have it sewn up again. They just need to make sure they don't laugh so hard they crash their cars when they the Toyota engines provide a spectacular fire and smoke show in the early evening. That's why the VW-Audi-Porsche group is also working on a Porsche LMP1 entry (being tested by ex-Audi drivers coincidentally released just as the Porsche project started) for next year, because all those wins won't mean anything if there's no opposition worth talking about.
In the GTE class, my guess is for Ferrari and Porsche to take the top spots. The AF Corse Ferraris and Porsche AG Manthey entries are loaded with heavy duty driving talent (and Kamui Kobayashi) which will make them hard to beat.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
I have an old acquaintance, Tommy Kendall, driving an Aston Martin in GT Pro. Unfortunately, last time I saw his stats on TV he was 3 laps down. I have DVR'd the whole race, but I shall fast-forward and try to get through it before Z comes home from church - I went to Saturday mass so I could stay home this morning.
Attending the race is something I'd like to do before I die. Must start saving now!
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
:
So, British GP this weekend - any predictions ?
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
It'll rain.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
It won't rain.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Seb, Lewis and Fred, but not necessarily in that order.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
So, British GP this weekend - any predictions ?
The front row to be left vacant in honour of Allan Simonsen and Wolf Silvester, hopefully.
Also a better than result from Webber than at most other venues. He's one of only two F1 drivers who live in Britain these days, which is probably why he's a bit of a Silverstone specialist when it's just up the road from home.
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
It'll rain.
Only if there's a cricket match on in the vicinity.
Also, the traffic will be a nightmare.
[ 26. June 2013, 18:21: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
We drove past on the A43 today - traffic is already a nightmare so we came home another way.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
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I hope it won't rain, (or cause any nightmares) because I'm going ! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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It's the middle weekend of Wimbledon, Glastonbury Festival and there's a T20 between England and New Zealand on Friday. The forecast is "partly cloudy" but who knows what those clouds will do?
Meanwhile, here's the shape of things to come.
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
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Ooooh, Mark Webber exiting F1 at end of the year for Porsche.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
Oh boy. Red Bull are going to be a real force next year if they have a decent second driver. And if Kimi steps in, I reckon he'll give Seb a proper run for his money. Don't think the German will like that very much.
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
:
Kimi and Seb are friends though. They'll work it out. Kimi is too good for the Lotus car or rather, whilst they seem to have mastered consistency it's just missing something to give Kimi a real shot at the title.
Kimi to win on Sunday. Easily the best driver in F1 and the best personality to boot.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Oh boy. Red Bull are going to be a real force next year if they have a decent second driver.
If the new regulation Renault engine is any good, and if they decide to give both drivers the same spec car like they used to.
Webber has chosen the right time to move sideways to the Porsche factory team, with a very strong chance of winning a World Championship compared to being reliant on an untested engine in F1.
Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on
:
So, Mercedes overwhelmingly faster than everyone else. It's hard to see how they haven't benefited from that 1000 kilometre tyre test, that their form since then is a mere coincidence. Their punishment was a joke. I hope both cars have to retire, even if it means Vettel winning again.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
All season, Mercedes have had good one lap pace. Their problem has been tire degradation in the long runs. With the harder compounds, Silverstone is a relatively low wear circuit, so I suspect that this isn't the correct track to judge.
And also, is it just me, or does Ross Brawn seem significantly less evil than he used to be?
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
First there was Barcelona with the stupidly high degradation rates. Now we have Silverstone with randomly exploding tires. Pirelli need to take a long look at themselves, IMNVHO, because this is the second race that their tires have made completely random. And the safety implications of tires spontaneously falling apart at 190 miles per hour is too much to even contemplate.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
I agree, even though it was three drivers notorious for poor tyre management.
Michelin should get the nod for next year, anybody watching Le Mans last week would have seen their tyres running for hours at a time, with much heavier cars turning laps at higher average speeds than F1 ever sees at any circuit other than Le Mans.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
You rate Seb's tire management, don't you? His rear left from his second stint had dangerous cuts in it too. It was just a matter of luck for whose blew out and whose didn't.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
You rate Seb's tire management, don't you? His rear left from his second stint had dangerous cuts in it too. It was just a matter of luck for whose blew out and whose didn't.
I don't rate Seb's tyre management to be honest, he uses way too much of the kerbs (something he shares with Hamilton and Massa, although with Massa it's usually not intentional) and is lucky to have a car that is so nice on the tyres.
As for Seb's tire management, I don't know anything about his management of fatigue, but maybe all the WEC teams not headhunting him know something about that which I don't.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
Why not use a tyre that will last the duration of the race? It appears that they are deliberately set to not last although Paul Di Resta had a good go in Canada.
Although pit strategy can be fascinating to watch unwind the sport is about racing which means cars on the track trying to overtake each other.
On the BBC show Raikkonen was asked whether he was going to drive for Red Bull next year and in typical Kimi style he declared that he wished he could say yes or no in order to avoid being asked the same question all the time.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Why not use a tyre that will last the duration of the race? It appears that they are deliberately set to not last although Paul Di Resta had a good go in Canada.
That's exactly the case. Pirelli were directed by the FIA to make a tire that would wear out fairly quickly to add some spice, not just in terms of pit strategy, but also to make it easier to overtake if one car was on new tires and one on old ones. The FIA are reaping what they sowed here.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
That's exactly the case. Pirelli were directed by the FIA to make a tire that would wear out fairly quickly to add some spice, not just in terms of pit strategy, but also to make it easier to overtake if one car was on new tires and one on old ones. The FIA are reaping what they sowed here.
I think it was Bernie Ecclestone who made that decision while thinking of some way to increase TV ratings, not the FIA.
What would really be in the interest of F1 would be for the FIA to declare that CVC's ownership of FOM has brought the sport into disrepute and that the license to run the world championship is to be revoked immediately without any compensation.
[ 01. July 2013, 14:16: Message edited by: the giant cheeseburger ]
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Pirelli bad, Michelin good! I expect 100,000 miles on the back tyres of my turbocharged Focus - it does 6 seconds 0-60 and is good on petrol! Pirelli good for handling but shit for wear as I found out on another turbo car in the 80s.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
The FIA has now changed the rules for the Young Driver Test at Silverstone next week, race drivers are now allowed to be used if they are testing tyres (and presumably anything else at the same time as tyres).
Mercedes is still banned though, just desserts for cheaters!
Hopefully the circuit's kerbs will get filed down a bit before the testing days.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by the giant cheeseburger:
I think it was Bernie Ecclestone who made that decision while thinking of some way to increase TV ratings, not the FIA.
Yes, you're right. My bad.
But the point more generally is that the Formula 1 authorities are currently lying the the bed that they made themselves.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
I hope Bernie and Jean can bring Pirelli to the verge of bankruptcy with a gargantuan fine for their complete incompetence in safe tyre manufacturing.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Also, I'd like to see Lewis reinstated as the race winner he should have been: the race should have been stopped when the second tyre exploded!
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I hope Bernie and Jean can bring Pirelli to the verge of bankruptcy with a gargantuan fine for their complete incompetence in safe tyre manufacturing.
Did you read the thread, Sir Kevin? It's well known that Bernie asked Pirelli to make their tires wear faster. It would be completely hypocritical* to fine them for it now.
* But, you know, this is Bernie.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Yes, I know. However, he's changed his mind before! Did you read the article by David Coulthard? I think it was in the Torygraph which has an excellent motoring section. I subscribe to it. (When I read the Guardian, it's mainly for articles about football and stats...)
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did you read the thread, Sir Kevin? It's well known that Bernie asked Pirelli to make their tires wear faster. It would be completely hypocritical* to fine them for it now.
* But, you know, this is Bernie.
Also, neither FOM (Bernie) or the FIA have the authority to fine Pirelli. Pirelli has a contract to supply tyres, not an FIA license.
Even if they did introduce rules allowing them to levy such a gigantic fine that it would threaten the viability of Pirelli as a company, Pirelli would be able to just walk away and refuse to pay it. That option wouldn't be taken because FOM and the FIA know that leaving F1 without any tyres available at all would be an even worse place than they are in currently.
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Also, I'd like to see Lewis reinstated as the race winner he should have been: the race should have been stopped when the second tyre exploded!
Err, no.
After doing 1000km of tyre testing which has yielded two race victories since then including the other driver winning the same race in question, a Mercedes driver has no claim to any special treatment. Revising race results to promote a retired competitor into an artificial finishing position is simply not on, since nobody can know that Hamilton's gearbox, suspension, fuel pump, brain or engine wouldn't have failed on the next lap if his tyre didn't blow.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
:
If they stop the race don't they give the victory to whoever was leading at the time? Tough luck if you did a pit stop just before. Championship points are only given if the race has gone beyond a certain distance as well. I think half points if it was at least half completed and full points if it was three quarters completed although I may be wrong in the detail and no doubt different formulas have different rules.
Michelin were not penalised for the 2005 USA fiasco although they did voluntarily refund spectators' ticket costs and buy them tickets for the following year as a PR exrcise. The teams were charged and found guilty by the FIA for not turning up properly equipped and failing to start the race but before penalties could be established the convictions were overturned, possibly because the teams claimed that local laws meant they could not drive with potentially dangerous cars which could injure or kill people.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
If they stop the race don't they give the victory to whoever was leading at the time?
That's how it was when I was with the sports car club (SCCA) and there was a red flag.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
If they stop the race don't they give the victory to whoever was leading at the time? Tough luck if you did a pit stop just before.
If a race is stopped and it is not resumed, the result is taken at the completion of the second-last completed lap and not just whoever is the leader at the moment the race is stopped. This can be a controversial rule at times, mainly because it could allow a driver whose crash caused the race to be stopped to retain the position held before the crash, I believe there was a Brazilian GP not too far into the past where this happened.
The rules regarding the classification of races stopped short of completion on the second-last completed lap are fairly consistent across most conventional circuit races organised by FIA member bodies, although ACO-FIA joint sanctioned endurance races (WEC, ELMS, ALMS and USCR next year) and SRO endurance races usually have slightly different rules. The rules on what counts for points and the requirements for being classified as a finisher* is generally worked out separately for each series.
If the race gets started again it is treated just like it's a safety car neutralisation that happens to involve the cars stopping, the FIA and member bodies moved away from corrected time races (adding together the results of the pre-restart and post-restart segments) after it was shown up by a farcical restarted race where Damon Hill "won" the race despite finishing behind Michael Schumacher. These days the cars stay in the order they are in when they come to the grid or pit lane (or a sorted out order to deal with a track blockage or cars in the pit lane at the moment the race was stopped), and then they leave behind the safety car.
* F1 is fairly unique in having retired cars which completed >90% of the race distance classified as finishers, a rule I think is wrong in not requiring cars be running and to pass the chequered flag. The most conventional rule for getting classified as finishing a race is completing >70% of the winner's distance, crossing the finish line after the winner and having a last lap time no more than double the winner's last lap time. 12 hour and 24 hour races usually add a further rule requiring a minimum distance be completed in the last hour of the race as well, to stop finishes being recorded by retired cars coming out to limp around one last lap at the end of the race.
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
Championship points are only given if the race has gone beyond a certain distance as well. I think half points if it was at least half completed and full points if it was three quarters completed although I may be wrong in the detail and no doubt different formulas have different rules.
That distance is two laps completed by the leader. The current rules for F1 are:
Less than two laps completed by the leader - no points.
Two or more laps, but less than the first completed lap after 75% of the scheduled race distance - half points.
More than 75%, or the race finished at the leader's first time past the control line after the two hour limit - full points.
This is the kind of stuff which is more likely to vary across different race series, especially those which have short sprint races under 100 kilometres.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
Given that today was not the first time that a car was released from its pit box without all four tires securely fastened, and that this is really quite a dangerous thing to happen, I have a proposal to make.
Clearly, teams (and it's not just Red Bull) think that shaving a few tenths of a second off the pit stop time is so important that they are willing to risk not properly checking that tires are fixed before releasing the car. Pit stops also currently take about three seconds or a little less. So how about mandating a minimum stationary time for any pit stop that involves a tire change? I would recommend a period of five seconds, since this leaves that crucial extra second or two for the mechanics to check properly that the tires are fixed securely. It also allows extra time for proper communication with the lolly-pop guy, or whoever is releasing the car. Any car that is not stationary for long enough will have to do a drive-through penalty. This should be easy to implement because the technology for timing the stationary time already exists.
What do you think?
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
No. F1 is already way too over-regulated and doesn't need to be further dumbed down to the point it's just one or two rule changes away from becoming a spec series junior formula that just has a certain amount of false prestige due to the name (just like Indycar, the graveyard of aspiring F1 drivers who didn't make it) and should be stripped of World Championship status. On the rare occasions a team stuffs up a pit stop in that way (usually not more than one every four or five races) then the appropriate course of action is to fine them and give them a manufacturers's championship point score of -10 from that race instead of whatever their entries earned. Minimum timed stops (something that belongs in an entry-level pay driver GT series where they get used as a handicapping mechanism) wouldn't solve it, even during the refuelling era when there were longer stops there were the occasional botched tyre changes.
The 2014 engine regulations are the best example of this out of control regulation stifling the series and causing the best engineers to go across to WEC teams. Instead of specifying everything right down to the number of cylinders, the angle between the two banks and the number of valves. The rules should have taken a lead from the Group C sports-racer/GTP rules of the 1980s, where a maximum amount of fuel for the race distance was specified and just about everything else (engine size, atmo/turbo, number of cylinders etc) left up to the teams to work out. All you would need to top it off would be a regulated maximum capacity for battery-based KERS, a regulation specifying no more than one in-season evolution to the powertrain, and a claiming rule requiring engine manufacturers to supply identical engines and related electronic equipment to any team wishing to pay a fixed price per engine.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Aaaaaaargh!
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
If you want a Fangio era Mercedes-Benz, you've missed your chance.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
Call me crazy if you like, but isn't it a bit suspicious that a W196 went for 19.6 million?
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
Yeah, Top Gear had a photo of it on facebook. Hard to believe that price! I could probably get Lamborghini to build me two V-16 marine engines and put them in a Cigarette for less than that!
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
Kobacrashi auditions for a return to Formula 1.
I don't think Ferrari would sign him, they could get exactly the same skills from Massa.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
Shell has re-released a film they made at a previous edition of the Belgian GP. Britney and Lewis would want to pay close attention to this and take good notes, for back then the Mercedes drivers didn't seem to have any trouble using their tyres appropriately enough to get to the finish of a 500 kilometre GP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAiKovUL8FM
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
Seb wins again. Is Lewis that hard on tyres?
Good video. Ta.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
:
when will Paul Di Resta catch a break ?
if it had kept on raining, he would have been on pole, and then in the race he gets taken out by Maldonado, who gets a simple 10-second stop/go penalty
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
Yeah, I feel for him. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
And no, I don't think that the Mercedes is unusually hard on its tires. I think that the main thing going on on Sunday is that the Red Bull is well suited to Spa.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
There's an outside chance we'll go to the USGP this year as lodging and ground transport will be taken care of by my sister who lives nearby. I saw one of the previous ones at Long Beach and had a garage tour in another city with my daughter, but never actually sat in grandstands to watch one. I walked from my father-in-law's house in 1976 and bribed a rent-a-cop to stand at the hairpin curve. I miss that!
In 1976, I shared an elevator with Clay Regazonni and Emerson Fittipaldi may have been there also, but they wouldn't talk to me. My then-fiancee, now wife, actually showed several drivers to their tables at the pizza restaurant where she worked.
However, my fondest F1 memory is shaking hands with Sir Stirling Moss as he and Suzy prepared to lead a road rally that departed from our local art museum about twenty years ago.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
:
after my trip to the British GP, I really hope you get the chance to go. There's nothing like it.
I have heard that the Austin GP is one of the most expensive when comparing prices between races
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
I really wanted Fred to win on Sunday...
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
:
so did just about everybody watching at the circuit
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
:
(Missed Silverstone when we were in England a few years ago - had not booked transport in advance or tickets and could not afford 100s of £s extra in our travel budget to make last minute plans!)
If Z gets a full time teaching job and she has a good salary we may go to USGP next year, God willing! They say tickets are only $48 (£75?) but of course there would be a charge at the car park and we'd want pit passes too and food! WIth airfare, I'll have to save up nearly a week's pay, but it would be worth it.
David Hobbs, whom I met years ago when he was broadcasting a national sportscar race, said it was a great circuit!
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
so did just about everybody watching at the circuit
They must have been watching and learning from the English cricket fans during the Ashes judging by the way they made their feelings clear about Vettel.
It must have been pretty bad for even Mark Webber to stick up for Seb in the press conference, given he would normally tend towards throwing the little punk off the podium to appease the masses.
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
... They say tickets are only $48 (£75?) but of course there would be a charge at the car park and we'd want pit passes too and food! ...
I'm guessing you're more used to local touring car races than big international events. The paddock and garages are off-limits to all but invited guests and necessary team members at FIA World Championship events (F1, WEC, WTCC and WRC) and there are no publicly available passes. The closest you would get is the public autograph session held in front of the garages on the Thursday of the GP weekend when there is no track action scheduled (with the exception of Melbourne and Monaco) other than the course car familiarisation runs and sponsor/media rides.
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
:
if it's anything like silverstone, I'm guessing your cheapest headline ticket price is to gain entry and stand somewhere at a limited number of places at the track (general admission) for one day (possible the saturday) and once you think about wanting a seat in a grandstand, or other days in the weekend, the cost will rocket up.
I was fortunate that I got the corporate race day ticket from a family friend who works for one of the teams, but after years of travelling to circuits and watching many GPs actually isn't that interested in using his free ticket for the UK GP - currently a sunday-only ticket for 2014 for that grandstand is approaching £300, and the 3-day ticket is £450.
This meant that I was sitting in the teams area with McLaren, Lotus, Red Bull and Mercedes workers and their families/friends and can tell you that the response to what happened on the track, eg -
-hamilton lead
-hamilton tyre falure
- Vettel engine problem etc
was greeted in just a partisan and team-biased way as how the tifosi behaved on Sunday.
[ 10. September 2013, 08:46: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
:
It's also possible that Austin would be significantly cheaper than Silverstone, just because demand would be less high.
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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That $49 (£31) quoted is a single day general admission ticket for the Friday only. GA tickets appear to be only the purple areas on the outside of the track on this map and you'd have to take your own folding chair with you. Three day GA passes are $169, three day passes to the cheap seats start at $299 and go up to over $1000.
iFriend, you might be surprised that you appear to be wrong about demand for tickets. All the expensive premium grandstand seats have been sold, there are some lower tier reserved seats left and just GA after that. With two months still to go they shouldn't have a problem selling all seats and possibly even a full house in GA.
If I was looking to attend an event at Austin it would probably be the World Endurance Championship next weekend with the six hour race, complete with spectator pit/grid walks which you don't get at F1 races. It's just simple, I've been there and done that with F1 at both circuits in Australia and if I'm going to spend lots of money on tickets in the future I'd prefer it to be something more different instead of the one that's best on TV.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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I'll start saving now...
Maybe I'll get involved with the Sports Car Club of America again. I used to really enjoy being a corner worker or paddock marshall and I met several famous drivers back in the 90s. It cost nothing except an annual membership fee and there was often a free lunch!
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I'll start saving now...
Maybe I'll get involved with the Sports Car Club of America again. I used to really enjoy being a corner worker or paddock marshall and I met several famous drivers back in the 90s. It cost nothing except an annual membership fee and there was often a free lunch!
A little side note about marshals, the FIA president (and former Peugeot and Ferrari team principle) Jean Todt has acquired a positive reputation for making sure he visits the marshals' headquarters to thank the marshals personally and hear any concerns about safety at events he attends. That means making a muddy trek to a tent at a temporary circuit like Melbourne or a WRC event.
Whatever other opinions you might have about the FIA's oversight of international motorsport, after the Mosely years it's definitely a good thing to have an FIA president who hasn't forgotten what needs to happen for races to take place.
Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on
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Entering the proverbial final few laps of the season and the world championship is done and dusted, but is there anything else worth talking about? Drives for next year perhaps - what do you think of Kimi joining Ferrari? Will (or should) Di Resta get a drive? Which up-and-coming young drivers should get a shot at the big time?
Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on
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Kimi to Ferrari is a good move for both him and the team. F1 from 2014 is all about fuel economy runs, and Kimi will be far better off at a permanently cashed up team with more ability to improve their car to cope with the new conditions. Ferrari get a huge advantage in being the only team with two very experienced drivers to develop the new car quickly, that could be just as big an advantage for them as the experienced driver-engineers Brabham and Hulme were for Brabham in the first year of the 3.0/1.5T formula in 1966.
The obvious choice for Lotus would be Romain Grosjean and Sergio Perez, Grosjean has performed well for them this year and Perez is going to go well under the new econo-race rules next year. The only problem for Perez this year was that this was one of the 2-3 years in the second tier that McLaren have to endure after having a brilliant year running at the front - a result of either too much management sucking away the agility to perform every year or of said management inhaling a little too much.
I would say that Di Resta doesn't deserve a pro seat next year, and without a major backer he would look like not getting a paid seat either. The promotion of Ricciardo to a top tier team plus the new drivers Magnussen and Kvyat to second tier teams creates a surplus of good drivers unemployed from teams ranked higher than Force India.
Posted by The Rogue (# 2275) on
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Just picking up this thread to mention that Michael Schumacker appears to have had a very nasty skiing accident. Here's a BBC report.
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on
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Praying for him: see AS. It made the world news headlines here also.
Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on
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Prayers continue for Michael Schumacher.
As we're now past the chequered flag for 2013, let's start the next lap in a new thread.
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